infinit
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Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:15 am

With over 130,000 searches in the last 12 months, a potential city pair from Singapore to Vancouver has been identified as this week’s “Skyscanner-anna.aero Unserved Route of the Week” – a powerful analysis based on aspirational data captured from the Skyscanner.net flight comparison site used by +70 million unique visitors per month. “Vancouver is one of our top new link targets, given the strong O&D demand on the city pair, numbering in excess of 30,000 per annum,” explains Lim Ching Kiat, Changi Airport Group’s MD for Air Hub Development.

Source: http://www.anna.aero/2018/07/04/singapo ... -searches/


The fact that there is no direct (non-stop or otherwise) service between Singapore and Canada has been talked about on this forum repeatedly.
But here's an interesting new article where Changi's management claims that there is a demand for 30,000 O&D seats a year between Singapore and Vancouver specifically.
The article goes on to provide more statistics and analysis based on Skyscanner's data.
 
HJM
Posts: 55
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:02 am

Ben Smith (AC) did recently say that AC would have been interested in YVR-SIN but that due to the many new California to SIN flights the plan did not go forward.
 
ninspeed
Posts: 54
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:37 am

Maybe a good route for WestJet to try their new 78s on soon...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:38 am

That’s less than 600 pax per week, hardly large—2 round trips every 7 days!

GF
 
XRadar98
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:44 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
That’s less than 600 pax per week, hardly large—2 round trips every 7 days!

GF


Sounds like a good route for Frontier!
 
simairlinenet
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:24 am

Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:50 am

Singapore Airlines used to serve YVR via ICN 3x weekly--so there is some kind of market for it.

Honestly, this is the most plausible of Skyscanner's potential routes. Often they're completely absurd:
MNL-YWG
DUS-JNB
MEL-PNH
WAW-HAN
LAX-NAS
HKG-KEF
 
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stl07
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:14 am

XRadar98 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
That’s less than 600 pax per week, hardly large—2 round trips every 7 days!

GF


Sounds like a good route for Frontier!

They will start it in two weeks and then pull it in 3 months, wondering why nobody booked it
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
lutfi
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:33 am

Yep - 30,000 is pretty small, would need to aggregate a lot more traffic from India/ Indonesia to make it work. And SIN-YVR non stop would need to be premium heavy - and it isn't a premium market in the same way SFO/JFK are for SQ. AC runs "high density' B777 out of YVR to HKG to make the economics work

Basically the market is well covered by hubs inbetween SIN and YVR (HKG/ SHA/ TPE/ NRT/ SEL/ CAN)
 
Varsity1
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:43 am

Maybe 600 a week O&D, but it's strategically a good city to feed connections out of Canada. I think only AC or WS are in a position to make this route work.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
nname
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:57 am

Maybe they could drag YYZ into it and run YYZ-YVR-SIN like how the Australian service started at SYD...

lutfi wrote:
AC runs "high density' B777 out of YVR to HKG to make the economics work


I think it's more like.. AC cannot obtain additional slot in HKG to add more flights, so they squeeze as many people as they can to the the slot they got. This is the same for the LHR flight until AC gives additional slot to YVR.

Finally, Air Canada claims that Canadian carriers are unable to deploy the capacity that was negotiated in the Agreement because of the unavailability of slots at the Hong Kong International Airport (Hong Kong Airport), which, according to Hong Kong Airport slot coordinators, will not become available for at least five years.


Source: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-111
 
hz747300
Posts: 2354
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:44 am

nname wrote:
Maybe they could drag YYZ into it and run YYZ-YVR-SIN like how the Australian service started at SYD...

lutfi wrote:
AC runs "high density' B777 out of YVR to HKG to make the economics work


I think it's more like.. AC cannot obtain additional slot in HKG to add more flights, so they squeeze as many people as they can to the the slot they got. This is the same for the LHR flight until AC gives additional slot to YVR.

Finally, Air Canada claims that Canadian carriers are unable to deploy the capacity that was negotiated in the Agreement because of the unavailability of slots at the Hong Kong International Airport (Hong Kong Airport), which, according to Hong Kong Airport slot coordinators, will not become available for at least five years.


Source: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-111


How's that possible? There are a few times a day when there are 15 minutes between landings here at HKG.
Keep on truckin'...
 
zkncj
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:13 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
That’s less than 600 pax per week, hardly large—2 round trips every 7 days!

GF


Thats still around an 70-80% load factor on an 260-275 seater 789, which 3x weekly with growth could be do-able.

AKL-ORD is going to start at 4x weekly with an 789.
 
StudiodeKadent
Posts: 387
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:00 am

I could see a 787-9 make SIN - YVR. That said it would require SQ/AC cooperation to some degree, and I don't think the route could sustain service from both SQ and AC.
 
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PolarRoute
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:04 am

lutfi wrote:
And SIN-YVR non stop would need to be premium heavy - and it isn't a premium market in the same way SFO/JFK are for SQ.


I get some sense as to why you're saying SFO is not a premium market for SQ, but JFK definitely is; the carrier set up a small subfleet of very premium-configured aircraft just so that they can serve NYC market nonstop.

Sure 30,000 a year is not a lot of passengers, but that translates into about 41 PDEW. AFAIK, 41 PDEW is what is called doable when alliance feed, transiting pax, etc considered altogether.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:38 am

nname wrote:
Maybe they could drag YYZ into it and run YYZ-YVR-SIN like how the Australian service started at SYD...

lutfi wrote:
AC runs "high density' B777 out of YVR to HKG to make the economics work


I think it's more like.. AC cannot obtain additional slot in HKG to add more flights, so they squeeze as many people as they can to the the slot they got. This is the same for the LHR flight until AC gives additional slot to YVR.

Finally, Air Canada claims that Canadian carriers are unable to deploy the capacity that was negotiated in the Agreement because of the unavailability of slots at the Hong Kong International Airport (Hong Kong Airport), which, according to Hong Kong Airport slot coordinators, will not become available for at least five years.


Source: https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-111


The HD squeezes in more Y pax at the expense of J. It flies on low yield, high volume routes, it isn't there because they can't get any more slots.
 
airbazar
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:41 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
That’s less than 600 pax per week, hardly large—2 round trips every 7 days!

That's just O&D. There's a ton of connection potential not just to/from Canada but to/from the U.S.
If immigration at YVR is anything like YYZ, clearing immigration in YVR would be a lot better than SFO or LAX for the average passenger.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:52 pm

With SQ's new partnership with AS, SEA being a bigger city than YVR, and big economic connections between SEA and SIN (like Microsoft), I see SQ doing SIN - SEA more than SIN - YVR. Though, SEA - SIN only has about 37 PDEW.

Cheers,

C.
 
tphuang
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:54 pm

Lol on sin sea. Yvr will always be a better Asian hub than Seattle due to demographics.

As for Singapore to Vancouver, it’s well served through Hong Kong. There just isn’t enough link between the two cities to justify non stop given the cost of a long haul flight. So I think Toronto is a better option.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
Lol on sin sea. Yvr will always be a better Asian hub than Seattle due to demographics.

Actually, isn't it the demographics which go against YVR in this instance? YVR would be a lot of Asian VFR traffic, whereas SEA would be more business / industry traffic (more in line with SQ's North American strategy). I guess that the latter would have higher yields, particularly when coupled with the fact that YVR is over-saturated with Asian carriers. That being said, I'm not sure either YVR or SEA will happen on SQ in the near future, particularly with other opportunities available.

Cheers,

C.
 
tphuang
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Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:19 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Lol on sin sea. Yvr will always be a better Asian hub than Seattle due to demographics.

Actually, isn't it the demographics which go against YVR in this instance? YVR would be a lot of Asian VFR traffic, whereas SEA would be more business / industry traffic (more in line with SQ's North American strategy). I guess that the latter would have higher yields, particularly when coupled with the fact that YVR is over-saturated with Asian carriers. That being said, I'm not sure either YVR or SEA will happen on SQ in the near future, particularly with other opportunities available.

Cheers,

C.


Stepping aside from Singapore since I think neither market works. For Asia as a whole, the huge O&D from Vancouver allows and surrounding Canadian cities like Edmonton and Calgary (both with Huge Asian populations) to Asia allow it to work. Sure business demand helps, but you still need higher yield direct stuff to fill up the cabin.

And the premium demand is higher than you would think. This is a very rich VFR population. For example, there are a lot of HK business people that settled in Vancouver but still own business back in HK. There are a lot of mainlanders who immigrated to Canada and live in Vancouver, but opened up businesses in Pearl river delta or in the Shanghai/Hangzhou/Suzhou area. And of course, there are a lot of really rich Asians who send their kids to Vancouver with way too much money to spend (check the series Ultra Rich Asian Girls which is based in Vancouver). All these people are going to travel in business class. And I'm sure this exists for the local Indian population too.
 
planemanofnz
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
And the premium demand is higher than you would think. This is a very rich VFR population. For example, there are a lot of HK business people that settled in Vancouver but still own business back in HK. There are a lot of mainlanders who immigrated to Canada and live in Vancouver, but opened up businesses in Pearl river delta or in the Shanghai/Hangzhou/Suzhou area. And of course, there are a lot of really rich Asians who send their kids to Vancouver with way too much money to spend (check the series Ultra Rich Asian Girls which is based in Vancouver). All these people are going to travel in business class. And I'm sure this exists for the local Indian population too.

Isn't the YVR expat population though primarily from Hong Kong / China - not Singapore / ASEAN? Hong Kong / China is not what a YVR - SIN service would target. Therefore, assuming both YVR and SEA have low VFR traffic to SIN and ASEAN, it then becomes a matter of business and other connections, which SEA wins on? I see SEA - SIN as a bit like the new SEA - DUB flight - connecting two tech and business hubs, with the benefit of the AS hub too.

Cheers,

C.
Last edited by planemanofnz on Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
yycdel
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Singapore-Vancouver: “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:31 pm

AC probably has a much higher chance of opening this up than SQ, even though personally I would love to have SQ back.

AC has the right aircraft for this route as well.

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