ual763
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Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:05 am

Just as the title says, I am wondering if there are currently any plans in the works for Anchorage to get a non-stop passenger flight to Asia? Surely with the 737 Max and A321NEO, this kind of route would be viable compared to the heavies China Airlines used to send in. There’s definitely no shortage of Japanese tourists in Alaska during the summers. And I’m sure the Alaskan natives would love a quicker way to get there than connect through SEA or SFO.
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stl07
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:23 am

Yes, but it will be routed as ISP-DTW-ANC-FNJ
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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FA9295
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:32 am

stl07 wrote:
Yes, but it will be routed as ISP-DTW-ANC-FNJ

That's pretty creative, but I'd bet that they'd actually go for FAI before ANC... :D
 
flyfresno
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:56 am

Doesn’t ANC have a once weekly flight to somewhere in Russia? I must admit, I’m surprised there isn’t at least seasonal East Asia service given the multiple European flights in the summer...
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:50 am

flyfresno wrote:
Doesn’t ANC have a once weekly flight to somewhere in Russia? I must admit, I’m surprised there isn’t at least seasonal East Asia service given the multiple European flights in the summer...


IIRC there are plenty of charters, but nothing scheduled. JAL and ANA 777s last year from what I recall.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:13 am

YYZatcboy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Doesn’t ANC have a once weekly flight to somewhere in Russia? I must admit, I’m surprised there isn’t at least seasonal East Asia service given the multiple European flights in the summer...


IIRC there are plenty of charters, but nothing scheduled. JAL and ANA 777s last year from what I recall.


He was correct. Yakutia Airlines flies ANC-PKC.
 
aeropix
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:52 am

Every time I see one of these "Will XXX Ever happen?" threads, I feel like saying "Yup, yes it will". Ever is a very long time, after all.
 
c933103
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:26 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Doesn’t ANC have a once weekly flight to somewhere in Russia? I must admit, I’m surprised there isn’t at least seasonal East Asia service given the multiple European flights in the summer...


IIRC there are plenty of charters, but nothing scheduled. JAL and ANA 777s last year from what I recall.


He was correct. Yakutia Airlines flies ANC-PKC.

It is a seasonal flight that I am not sure if they fly it every years
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MIflyer12
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:37 am

Will AS ever operate an aircraft with realistic, year-round range to NRT in partnership with JAL or ANA, or to ICN in partnership with KE?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:10 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Doesn’t ANC have a once weekly flight to somewhere in Russia? I must admit, I’m surprised there isn’t at least seasonal East Asia service given the multiple European flights in the summer...


IIRC there are plenty of charters, but nothing scheduled. JAL and ANA 777s last year from what I recall.


He was correct. Yakutia Airlines flies ANC-PKC.

I'm not seeing the route listed on their website.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:59 pm

ANC used to have transpac service. I imagine they’ll get it back at some point.
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:58 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Will AS ever operate an aircraft with realistic, year-round range to NRT in partnership with JAL or ANA, or to ICN in partnership with KE?


Unlikely with KE, now that they have JV with DL. NW used to seasonal to NRT. Could see DL/KE possibly doing a seasonal to ICN.
 
Chasensfo
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:42 pm

20 years ago in 1998, several Asian flights were still routing via ANC:

Korean Air:
GMP-ANC-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

GMP-YYZ-ANC-GMP 772

GMP-JFK-IAD-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

China Airlines:
TPE-ANC-JFK-ANC-TPE 744

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.

Interestingly, Condor also served ANC from CGN and either FRA or DUS with 763s at the time.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:47 pm

Did KE flights to Asia that stopped in ANC allow passengers to get on?
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:50 pm

If the cost of fuel rises to the point where a fuel stop becomes more cost effective than a direct flight for passengers, there will be several. It won't happen for awhile based on O&D

The fact that Anchorage Fairbanks and Juneau are on world maps has more to do with bored cartographers wanting something to put down amidst an otherwise empty space than it does population. The entire state has a population less than that of Fort Worth spread out over around 20% of the land mass of the county.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:17 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
20 years ago in 1998, several Asian flights were still routing via ANC:

Korean Air:
GMP-ANC-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

GMP-YYZ-ANC-GMP 772

GMP-JFK-IAD-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

China Airlines:
TPE-ANC-JFK-ANC-TPE 744

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.

Interestingly, Condor also served ANC from CGN and either FRA or DUS with 763s at the time.


Didn't China Airlines' ANC stop end only about 4-5 years ago? I distinctly remember watching an The Amazing Race episode from a few years back, where a leg of the race was TPE-ANC.
 
bzcat
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:30 pm

East Asia to ANC passenger demand is highly seasonal so not really any point in operating scheduled year round service. Just put some charters in winter for the norther lights.
 
bzcat
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:33 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
20 years ago in 1998, several Asian flights were still routing via ANC:

Korean Air:
GMP-ANC-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

GMP-YYZ-ANC-GMP 772

GMP-JFK-IAD-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

China Airlines:
TPE-ANC-JFK-ANC-TPE 744

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.

Interestingly, Condor also served ANC from CGN and either FRA or DUS with 763s at the time.


Didn't China Airlines' ANC stop end only about 4-5 years ago? I distinctly remember watching an The Amazing Race episode from a few years back, where a leg of the race was TPE-ANC.


CI operated mixed A343/744 types on TPE-ANC-JFK until around 2010 (I think?) when it was replaced by TPE-KIX-JFK. Then it went non-stop TPE-JFK when CI got 77W in 2015.
 
Chasensfo
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:36 pm

Cool, didn't know that China Airlines flew to ANC for so long. There may have been others in 1998, I think China Eastern with MD-11s possibly, but those are the routes I've come across so far in my research from a 1998 Flightsim project lol.
Ziyulu wrote:
Did KE flights to Asia that stopped in ANC allow passengers to get on?

Some, not all. The YYZ-ANC-GMP leg and 1 of the 744 flights isn't a listed stop in the OAG, meaning not bookable from ANC. But the other examples were indeed sold on the ANC-GMP/GMP-ANC legs.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:04 pm

I would bet an airline offers summer seasonal at some point.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:15 pm

aeropix wrote:
Every time I see one of these "Will XXX Ever happen?" threads, I feel like saying "Yup, yes it will". Ever is a very long time, after all.


Same here. I always wish people would but a time frame on it. 5/10/20 years or something.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:37 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
20 years ago in 1998, several Asian flights were still routing via ANC:

Korean Air:
GMP-ANC-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

GMP-YYZ-ANC-GMP 772

GMP-JFK-IAD-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

China Airlines:
TPE-ANC-JFK-ANC-TPE 744

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.

Interestingly, Condor also served ANC from CGN and either FRA or DUS with 763s at the time.


Sure, but those were wide bodies offering far too much capacity for such a thin route. This is about narrow-bodies that would be better fitted for such thin routes.

For a long time narrow-bodies didn't have the range to make it from Alaska to Japan or South Korea, but times have changed. Don't underestimate the distance since it's still a long flight, but the A321NEO could make it between Anchorage and Tokyo for example. However Anchorage faces competition as a TPAC hub from Hawaii since Honolulu - Tokyo is also within range of the A321NEO. I could see Spirit open up a hub in Hawaii and start such routes, offering dirt cheap TPAC connections through their Hawaii hub. Of course they can also do this from Alaska, that doesn't make much difference.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:28 pm

According to Great Circle Mapper:
BGO-SWF (operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle with the 737-8 MAX): 3456mi
ANC-NRT: 3433mi

So it is possible with the current generation of aircraft.
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Chugach
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:35 pm

c933103 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:

IIRC there are plenty of charters, but nothing scheduled. JAL and ANA 777s last year from what I recall.


He was correct. Yakutia Airlines flies ANC-PKC.

It is a seasonal flight that I am not sure if they fly it every years


It operates weekly for about 10 weeks or so in the summer. Popular with fishermen and adventurous tourists. Always fun seeing Yakutia parked at N4 or N6.

Although there was an incident several years back where one of their 737’s was repossessed at ANC.
 
Chugach
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:39 pm

Seems like ANC-Asia is turning in to one of those frequent recurring topics. I wouldn’t rule it out; as others have noted ANC-ICN/TYO is doable on the latest generation of 737’s and 321’s, and ANC is also attempting to land a scheduled route to China.

But if/when it does happen, it’ll be something that is operated two or three times a week, and probably seasonal at that. Not much different than ANC-KEF on FI.
 
Chugach
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:43 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
20 years ago in 1998, several Asian flights were still routing via ANC:

Korean Air:
GMP-ANC-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

GMP-YYZ-ANC-GMP 772

GMP-JFK-IAD-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

China Airlines:
TPE-ANC-JFK-ANC-TPE 744

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.

Interestingly, Condor also served ANC from CGN and either FRA or DUS with 763s at the time.


Condor still flies to ANC and FAI.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:34 am

Chasensfo wrote:
20 years ago in 1998, several Asian flights were still routing via ANC:

Korean Air:
GMP-ANC-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

GMP-YYZ-ANC-GMP 772

GMP-JFK-IAD-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

China Airlines:
TPE-ANC-JFK-ANC-TPE 744

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.


gotta be cargo. probably turned a marginal flight into a profitable one, at least the GMP flights.
TPE - JFK is still darned long flight today, and into western, winter wind, that could have stretched the 744, at least economically. Probably made more sense to plan for the tech stop - and it too, may have loaded up high value, perishable cargo. $$$
 
c933103
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:12 am

Chasensfo wrote:
20 years ago in 1998, several Asian flights were still routing via ANC:

Korean Air:
GMP-ANC-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

GMP-YYZ-ANC-GMP 772

GMP-JFK-IAD-JFK-ANC-GMP 744

China Airlines:
TPE-ANC-JFK-ANC-TPE 744

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.

Interestingly, Condor also served ANC from CGN and either FRA or DUS with 763s at the time.

For CI they cannot make JFK work. They start flying the route ever since year 1983 with different type of stop/nonstop service but they only ever gained money on a route for 1 out of so many years. Running it nonstop like what they're doing now would have higher cost than making stopover with such a route length. After they terminated the ANC stopover I think they tried stop over at Japan?
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NameOmitted
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:06 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
However Anchorage faces competition as a TPAC hub from Hawaii since Honolulu - Tokyo is also within range of the A321NEO. I could see Spirit open up a hub in Hawaii and start such routes, offering dirt cheap TPAC connections through their Hawaii hub. Of course they can also do this from Alaska, that doesn't make much difference.


The difference is that while Hawaii has the O&D to be a worthwhile stop that can then offer continuing service, Anchorage will tend to be a thousand miles or so shorter due to the Great Circle Route.

At some point, I suspect there will be a carbon tax on fuel. If Boeing's 797 is a lightweight 787, and if she sips fuel on 4k mile runs, ANC might become a very viable stopover again.
 
bzcat
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:58 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
According to Great Circle Mapper:
BGO-SWF (operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle with the 737-8 MAX): 3456mi
ANC-NRT: 3433mi

So it is possible with the current generation of aircraft.


It not just great circle distance. You also have to take into consideration of diversion airports and seasonal change in arctic winds that may affect fuel burn and flight time. Widebody planes can carry a lot more fuel to reliably operate between ANC and NRT. I think most airlines will some concerns about dispatching a narrow body from ANC to NRT.
 
WkndWanderer
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:44 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
If the cost of fuel rises to the point where a fuel stop becomes more cost effective than a direct flight for passengers, there will be several. It won't happen for awhile based on O&D

The fact that Anchorage Fairbanks and Juneau are on world maps has more to do with bored cartographers wanting something to put down amidst an otherwise empty space than it does population. The entire state has a population less than that of Fort Worth spread out over around 20% of the land mass of the county.


You could say the same thing about KEF though and it has been successful as a stopover point for intercontinental narrow body service. An airline like AS that already flies shuttle frequencies in the summer from the lower 48 into ANC could probably easily fill a single MAX or NEO flight to NRT at least seasonally.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:53 pm

bzcat wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
According to Great Circle Mapper:
BGO-SWF (operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle with the 737-8 MAX): 3456mi
ANC-NRT: 3433mi

So it is possible with the current generation of aircraft.


It not just great circle distance. You also have to take into consideration of diversion airports and seasonal change in arctic winds that may affect fuel burn and flight time. Widebody planes can carry a lot more fuel to reliably operate between ANC and NRT. I think most airlines will some concerns about dispatching a narrow body from ANC to NRT.

Theres plenty of diversion airports for a narrowbody on this route. AKN,CDB,ADK,SYA and that's just on the US Side. Alaska already flies 737s to ADK which is like half way there. Also there are no diversion airpots flying narrowbodies to Hawaii.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:57 pm

I can see NRT or ICN from ANC happening in the future, but that's about it.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:19 pm

bzcat wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
According to Great Circle Mapper:
BGO-SWF (operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle with the 737-8 MAX): 3456mi
ANC-NRT: 3433mi

So it is possible with the current generation of aircraft.


It not just great circle distance. You also have to take into consideration of diversion airports and seasonal change in arctic winds that may affect fuel burn and flight time. Widebody planes can carry a lot more fuel to reliably operate between ANC and NRT. I think most airlines will some concerns about dispatching a narrow body from ANC to NRT.

The 737 has ETOPS 180. It shouldnt be a problem. They have CTS, PKC, and ADK on the way from ANC-NRT.
When wasn't America great?


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ctrabs0114
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:56 am

Dominion301 wrote:
ANC used to have transpac service. I imagine they’ll get it back at some point.


Part of the reason ANC had transpac service was because ANC was a key technical stop for flights from Europe, due to the inability to fly over Soviet airspace. Once the USSR fell and Russian airspace opened up to European airlines, it eliminated the need to fly to ANC in order to reach Asian destinations, as I recall reading.
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PanHAM
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:29 am

That's correct. Destinations in Europe have been CPH HAM DUS FRA AMS LHR CDG and that listing is not complete. The Transit Lounge for the stop over was relatively small and crowded. They had a huge Polar Bear and the duty free shop sold frozen salmon Alaska king crab legs etc. at good prices. Oh sweet nostalgia!!!
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c933103
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:15 am

bzcat wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
According to Great Circle Mapper:
BGO-SWF (operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle with the 737-8 MAX): 3456mi
ANC-NRT: 3433mi

So it is possible with the current generation of aircraft.


It not just great circle distance. You also have to take into consideration of diversion airports and seasonal change in arctic winds that may affect fuel burn and flight time. Widebody planes can carry a lot more fuel to reliably operate between ANC and NRT. I think most airlines will some concerns about dispatching a narrow body from ANC to NRT.

There are actually 757 charter flights being flown between Alaska and Japan
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
hoons90
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:44 pm

Chasensfo wrote:

Now, seeing as those same aircraft are usually capable of the non-stop(Korean did also have GMP-JFK non-stops), I am not sure why the stops were made as late as 1998. Perhaps there was some kind of demand from Asia as well? Perhaps not so much, however, as these were mostly middle-of-the-night stops.

Interestingly, Condor also served ANC from CGN and either FRA or DUS with 763s at the time.


Gimpo Airport has a curfew, so the midnight departures from JFK and YYZ would have arrived too early at GMP without a stopover.

YYZ went nonstop in both directions after ICN opened, whereas KE85/86 (JFK evening/overnight) stopped over both ways at ANC until 2005. The daylight JFK flight (KE81/82) has been nonstop in both directions for several years before that.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
mtnwest1979
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:42 pm

aeropix wrote:
Every time I see one of these "Will XXX Ever happen?" threads, I feel like saying "Yup, yes it will". Ever is a very long time, after all.

LOL, I always want to say maybe, maybe not. Or chances are 50/50.
One would think people would know that is a loysy way to phrase a question...but will they ever learn? ;)
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
tjh8402
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Re: Will Anchorage Ever Get An Asia Non-Stop?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:59 pm

I would think it’s possible, especially if AS gets a 797. This is assuming they (AS) already have a decent amount of O&D service from the lower 48 to ANC that connecting traffic could piggyback along with.

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