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yonikasz
Topic Author
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:47 pm

Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:10 am

Why both, not just one?
 
PDX88
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:17 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:10 am

Short answer, Horizon alone can't staff what Alaska needs. Same reason Compass got the first 20 American E175s instead of Envoy.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:01 am

Also at the time Skywest was able to deploy the e175 immediately as it was on their certificate. It took another couple years for QX to get it on theirs. Also keeps horizon honest on their hourly price to Alaska.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:36 am

Its so AAG can keep Horizon pilots in line without getting too greedy. #corporateamerica #whipsaw
xx
 
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enilria
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:48 am

Same as AADLUA. The real answer is that it keeps labor costs down. One bidder for new flying gives the union too much power. With two operators they can bid against each other.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8488
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:13 am

enilria wrote:
Same as AADLUA. The real answer is that it keeps labor costs down. One bidder for new flying gives the union too much power. With two operators they can bid against each other.


That's true, but QX has been the sole supplier of regional services for Alaska for most of the last two decades, so one has to ask what changed.
 
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enilria
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:27 am

What changed is that QX costs got too high, although arguably AS did it 10 years too late because it made a lot more sense when wages were not headed up as they are now. Regardless, the strategy still works to have two options as a cost reduction measure.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:42 pm

Alaska dictates to Horizon's management what they Will Pay per hour and it's up to Horizon's management to sell that to their pilots.
Which is why regionals are having a hard time keeping pilots long term.
The majors are hiring and calling up from the "Farm Teams" and Horizon is one of the AAA Farm teams, though not all their pilots are under contract to Alaska. They Can't dictate to Skywest any more than they can dictate to Horizon, as Skywest has other options for where their pilots fly.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:04 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Same as AADLUA. The real answer is that it keeps labor costs down. One bidder for new flying gives the union too much power. With two operators they can bid against each other.


That's true, but QX has been the sole supplier of regional services for Alaska for most of the last two decades, so one has to ask what changed.

No skywest flew CRJs for Alaska and PenAir flies Saab’s for Alaska.
 
airtran737
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:04 am

PDX88 wrote:
Short answer, Horizon alone can't staff what Alaska needs. Same reason Compass got the first 20 American E175s instead of Envoy.


What the hell are you smoking. Envoy didn’t get the first 20 175’s because our pilot group refused to bow to the demands of management and take concessions. Compass got them as a punishment to the Envoy pilot group, and soon enough they’re going to lose them.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
32andBelow
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:05 am

strfyr51 wrote:
Alaska dictates to Horizon's management what they Will Pay per hour and it's up to Horizon's management to sell that to their pilots.
Which is why regionals are having a hard time keeping pilots long term.
The majors are hiring and calling up from the "Farm Teams" and Horizon is one of the AAA Farm teams, though not all their pilots are under contract to Alaska. They Can't dictate to Skywest any more than they can dictate to Horizon, as Skywest has other options for where their pilots fly.

That’s not really how it works. The operator offers to fly for the block our rate and then it’s negotiated from there.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:10 am

32andBelow wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Alaska dictates to Horizon's management what they Will Pay per hour and it's up to Horizon's management to sell that to their pilots.
Which is why regionals are having a hard time keeping pilots long term.
The majors are hiring and calling up from the "Farm Teams" and Horizon is one of the AAA Farm teams, though not all their pilots are under contract to Alaska. They Can't dictate to Skywest any more than they can dictate to Horizon, as Skywest has other options for where their pilots fly.

That’s not really how it works. The operator offers to fly for the block our rate and then it’s negotiated from there.


Well, considering Alaska owns Horizon, it more or less is in this case...
From my cold, dead hands
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:12 am

Wouldn't be surprised to see AS take on the QX E175's and have an edge on recruiting as the QX pilots would join the AS seniority list. Of course they'd have to negotiate with ALPA for a E 175 payscale, etc and find a taker for the remaining Q400 flying...or QX shrinks and solely becomes a Q400 airline doing the short hops for AAG.
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:18 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Alaska dictates to Horizon's management what they Will Pay per hour and it's up to Horizon's management to sell that to their pilots.
Which is why regionals are having a hard time keeping pilots long term.
The majors are hiring and calling up from the "Farm Teams" and Horizon is one of the AAA Farm teams, though not all their pilots are under contract to Alaska. They Can't dictate to Skywest any more than they can dictate to Horizon, as Skywest has other options for where their pilots fly.

That’s not really how it works. The operator offers to fly for the block our rate and then it’s negotiated from there.


Well, considering Alaska owns Horizon, it more or less is in this case...

No AAG owns both. Many at Alaska would like OO to just do all the flying as they are cheaper and have better on time that Alaska mainline.
 
N766UA
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Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:25 am

Because both airlines have garbage contracts and pay, so rather than attract the pilots needed at Horizon by paying them fair wages, Alaska went out and grabbed Skywest, the village bicycle.

I promise I’m not biased.
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:37 am

[twoid][/twoid]
N766UA wrote:
Because both airlines have garbage contracts and pay, so rather than attract the pilots needed at Horizon by paying them fair wages, Alaska went out and grabbed Skywest, the village bicycle.

I promise I’m not biased.

Skywest has good pay and is doing pretty well in the new pilot environment. But whatever you want to say.
 
as739x
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:53 am

Well, considering Alaska owns Horizon, it more or less is in this case...[/quote]

Alaska does not own Horizon. Alaska Air Group is an umbrella over AS/QX and which was once VX till on the certificate with AS
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
DarthLobster
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:40 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:26 am

N766UA wrote:
I promise I’m not biased.


Your tail number is showing.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2238
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:36 am

32andBelow wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
N766UA wrote:
Because both airlines have garbage contracts and pay, so rather than attract the pilots needed at Horizon by paying them fair wages, Alaska went out and grabbed Skywest, the village bicycle.

I promise I’m not biased.

Skywest has good pay and is doing pretty well in the new pilot environment. But whatever you want to say.


Skywest doesn't have good pay.

Skypest: $37
Endeavor: $51

lmao.

The things posted on this website are ridiculous.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5032
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:00 am

Varsity1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
N766UA wrote:
Because both airlines have garbage contracts and pay, so rather than attract the pilots needed at Horizon by paying them fair wages, Alaska went out and grabbed Skywest, the village bicycle.

I promise I’m not biased.

Skywest has good pay and is doing pretty well in the new pilot environment. But whatever you want to say.


Skywest doesn't have good pay.

Skypest: $37
Endeavor: $51

lmao.

The things posted on this website are ridiculous.

For first year FOs not counting bonuses. And is anyone with any time actually getting hired at first year pay these days? NO.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2238
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:41 am

32andBelow wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Skywest has good pay and is doing pretty well in the new pilot environment. But whatever you want to say.


Skywest doesn't have good pay.

Skypest: $37
Endeavor: $51

lmao.

The things posted on this website are ridiculous.

For first year FOs not counting bonuses. And is anyone with any time actually getting hired at first year pay these days? NO.


Both airlines hire into first year rates. Skypest has a $7,500 bonus. Endeavor 10,000. Compass 20,000. Envoy 22,000.

You're digging a deeper hole. Skypest is showing is true colors of a non-union shop. Don't be dumb enough to work there.
 
PDX88
Posts: 423
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:17 am

Re: Why does Alaska have E175's operated by Horizon and Skywest?

Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:41 pm

airtran737 wrote:
PDX88 wrote:
Short answer, Horizon alone can't staff what Alaska needs. Same reason Compass got the first 20 American E175s instead of Envoy.


What the hell are you smoking. Envoy didn’t get the first 20 175’s because our pilot group refused to bow to the demands of management and take concessions. Compass got them as a punishment to the Envoy pilot group, and soon enough they’re going to lose them.


You seem like an easy person to have a civil discussion with. Thanks for your polite imput.

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