a350lover
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Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:05 pm

It looks long time ago since they finally dropped services both to Paris ORY and London (STN & LGW finally).

We have heard lots of news regarding the chances to get to see the strong-red-livery on Air Asia X airbus back in Europe. Croatia? Barcelona? Istambul? Prague? Lots of speculation around. However, nothing seems to ever get confirmed. I believe the giant Asian low cost is trying to figure out what's the perfect bird to re-enter on this super competitive market.

What do you think?
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:15 pm

That was the plan with the A339neo.
 
 
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lydh
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:17 am

I think so, especially now that Scoot is there.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:50 am

It was also the plan with the 77W. Air Asia X seems a bit directionless and to not really know what it wants to do. It seems to always be changing fleet plans and does not really know what it wants to be doing!
 
mdavies06
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:00 am

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1398083

Yes TF named London in this thread. You probably didn't see this active thread. Better to discuss in the other thread as topic overlaps.
 
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flee
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:01 am

Let us look at what happened the last time Airasia X (D7) was in Europe.

    Two A340-300 were deployed, performing 10 weekly return flights to London and Paris. The aircraft were more or less flying all the time, on the ground for turnarounds only.

    Promotion fares were about two thirds of what its main competitor on the route - Malaysia Airlines (MH) - offered.

    Loads were quite good, but yields were poor.

At that time, these routes were regarded as providing some PR and marketing value for the Airasia group airlines. They gave it some time to build market awareness and acceptance. However, this plan was not sustainable due to the rocketing fuel prices. They had to bite the bullet and suspend them.

Today, the situation is a little different.

    The competition to London now includes BA's daily B789 flights. However, MH has cut its capacity by deploying A359s instead of A388s. EK's one stop flights to Europe are very competitively priced as more A388s are deployed.

    D7's Asia Pacific network is now mostly doing well and profitable - it is focussing on dominating its current markets, increasing frequencies to routes where demand is good. Expansion opportunities, especially to China, Japan and Korea, is good.

    Longer, one-stop routes to Honolulu and Auckland are doing well in terms of load factor. It is not known how yields are as they do not publish individual route information.

    New fuel efficient aircraft, B789/A339/A359, are now available to operate routes to Europe.

    Airasia X is now a Group - it also operates from hubs in Bangkok and Bali. Any new services to Europe should be planned with all these group airlines in mind.

    Airasia Group short haul airlines are much bigger and can provide feed to the long haul services of Airasia X Group airlines.

The current thinking is that Europe is not such a big priority because it is a low yield market. London is largely a student/backpackers travel market for them. Paris traffic is lower and may not sustain daily flights, even though MH and AF no longer flies that route. Frankfurt is also not viable as there is insufficient traffic. Amsterdam might be a possibility as KLM does good business on this route. Other destinations in Europe may be highly challenging for them.

As for aircraft choice, the A339 is a good aircraft for them due to the lower acquisition costs compared to the B789/A359. However, Boeing's newfound sales competitiveness is now causing them to re-evaluate their options. Boeing also offers the GEnX engines - something that may be an advantage due to the disruptive Trent 1000 engine issues currently experienced and may affect the Trent XWB/7000 in future (no one can discount that!). Tony Fernandes is a self proclaimed fanboy of GE as well...

They may appear to be directionless as far as new European routes are concerned. However, they do know what is needed now - they are no longer prepared to start flights to Europe only to suspend them again. Europe is not a cheap place to operate from. They are also very focussed on maximising their Asia Pacific operations, their "anchor tenants".

Norwegian and Scoot now operates Europe-South East Asia flights. I am sure Airasia X Group is studying these airlines and routes to make some assessment as to whether they are viable.

As to whether Airasia X will ever return to Europe, I believe they will. But don't be surprised if it is Thai Airasia X that launches the first route - either from Bangkok or Phuket.
 
sibibom
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:12 am

I can imagine Scandinavia to Thailand/Bali will get a lot of traffic in the winter months, I assume they will wait for the A330neo, so probably test waters next winter and probably go all out by winter 2020
 
a350lover
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:55 am

Very cool historic summary @flee

I agree Air Asia X is way more confortable deploying and expanding its network on Asia rather than maybe flying back the European dream. London should be fine and probably the port to get back here, however, when they dropped the route, they were pretty much alone on the low-cost side, whereas now they have increasing competition fighting for the low-budget pax: Scoot, Norwegian...
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:57 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
They obviously need a feeder on the European end, otherwise they won't be able to capture the demand. The demand for these flights is scattered all around Europe instead of concentrated in one place. That was the problem with their previous flights to Europe, they were seeking the demand in one single place. Such a place doesn't exist, but all places in Europe added up do have enough demand.

Could they team up with Wizzair? Let's say Air Asia X flies Kuala Lumpur - Budapest and Wizzair provides the connections between Budapest and the rest of Europe. They're more or less compatible airlines offering the same kind of service, and Budapest is the largest hub for Wizzair.


Honestly, it has to be the UK. The demand for Malaysia - UK flights is incredibly high that they could make it work.

Anywhere else in Europe is a pipe dream.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:59 am

They obviously need a feeder on the European end, otherwise they won't be able to capture the demand. The demand for these flights is scattered all around Europe instead of concentrated in one place. That was the problem with their previous flights to Europe, they were seeking the demand in one single place. Such a place doesn't exist, but all places in Europe added up do have enough demand.

Could they team up with Wizzair? Let's say Air Asia X flies Kuala Lumpur - Budapest and Wizzair provides the connections between Budapest and the rest of Europe. They're more or less compatible airlines offering the same kind of service, and Budapest is the largest hub for Wizzair.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:06 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
They obviously need a feeder on the European end, otherwise they won't be able to capture the demand. The demand for these flights is scattered all around Europe instead of concentrated in one place. That was the problem with their previous flights to Europe, they were seeking the demand in one single place. Such a place doesn't exist, but all places in Europe added up do have enough demand.

Could they team up with Wizzair? Let's say Air Asia X flies Kuala Lumpur - Budapest and Wizzair provides the connections between Budapest and the rest of Europe. They're more or less compatible airlines offering the same kind of service, and Budapest is the largest hub for Wizzair.


Better to team up with Easyjet.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
c933103
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:46 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
They obviously need a feeder on the European end, otherwise they won't be able to capture the demand. The demand for these flights is scattered all around Europe instead of concentrated in one place. That was the problem with their previous flights to Europe, they were seeking the demand in one single place. Such a place doesn't exist, but all places in Europe added up do have enough demand.

Could they team up with Wizzair? Let's say Air Asia X flies Kuala Lumpur - Budapest and Wizzair provides the connections between Budapest and the rest of Europe. They're more or less compatible airlines offering the same kind of service, and Budapest is the largest hub for Wizzair.

They already have some sort of feeder on Asian end and I doubt many would be interested in double connecting via LCC
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:51 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Better to team up with Easyjet.


But EasyJet is already teaming up with their biggest competitor, Norwegian. They do so through their Worldwide by EasyJet program. Ryanair might be an option, but has a few disadvantages as well. Let's compare the three of them.

Starting off with the largest base, which would be the most likely destination for Air Asia to fly into if they want connections. For EasyJet this is London Gatwick, for Ryanair this is London Stansted and for Wizzair this is Budapest. Not surprisingly, Budapest is closer to Asia than London. This makes their flight shorter, saving on time and fuel. Also most of Europe is east of London but west of Budapest, so for the total flight time from any random place in Europe through the hub to Asia it would matter.

As for functionality of the mentioned hubs, Gatwick and Budapest both allow for transfers. You got the option to stay airside upon arrival and capture your transfer flight. Stansted doesn't have this option, it's strictly an O/D airport so that's a disadvantage for Ryanair.

Looking at the average fares, EasyJet is obviously the most expensive. Fares on Ryanair and Wizzair are more or less the same and lower than EasyJet. Passengers on services like these are very price-sensitive, so if it becomes too expensive that might put them off. It's not like they need to fly. They might if they can get a good deal, but if the deal isn't good they just stay at home.

Speaking of that, the Worldwide by EasyJet program is basically the two fares added up. It's an arranged self-transfer with luggage forwarding, but it's no true interlining. This means the fares out of Gatwick are still subject to APD, which makes them more expensive. Same would go for Ryanair at Stansted, unless they make that a true interlining agreement. Hungary on the other side doesn't have an APD, so an arranged self-transfer with luggage forwarding would work there.

All together, I think Wizzair scores the most points here. Still think it's better to team up with EasyJet? And if so, why?
 
MHG
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:57 am

flee wrote:
Let us look at what happened the last time Airasia X (D7) was in Europe.

    Two A340-300 were deployed, performing 10 weekly return flights to London and Paris. The aircraft were more or less flying all the time, on the ground for turnarounds only.

    Promotion fares were about two thirds of what its main competitor on the route - Malaysia Airlines (MH) - offered.

    Loads were quite good, but yields were poor.

At that time, these routes were regarded as providing some PR and marketing value for the Airasia group airlines. They gave it some time to build market awareness and acceptance. However, this plan was not sustainable due to the rocketing fuel prices. They had to bite the bullet and suspend them.

Today, the situation is a little different.

    The competition to London now includes BA's daily B789 flights. However, MH has cut its capacity by deploying A359s instead of A388s. EK's one stop flights to Europe are very competitively priced as more A388s are deployed.

    D7's Asia Pacific network is now mostly doing well and profitable - it is focussing on dominating its current markets, increasing frequencies to routes where demand is good. Expansion opportunities, especially to China, Japan and Korea, is good.

    Longer, one-stop routes to Honolulu and Auckland are doing well in terms of load factor. It is not known how yields are as they do not publish individual route information.

    New fuel efficient aircraft, B789/A339/A359, are now available to operate routes to Europe.

    Airasia X is now a Group - it also operates from hubs in Bangkok and Bali. Any new services to Europe should be planned with all these group airlines in mind.

    Airasia Group short haul airlines are much bigger and can provide feed to the long haul services of Airasia X Group airlines.

The current thinking is that Europe is not such a big priority because it is a low yield market. London is largely a student/backpackers travel market for them. Paris traffic is lower and may not sustain daily flights, even though MH and AF no longer flies that route. Frankfurt is also not viable as there is insufficient traffic. Amsterdam might be a possibility as KLM does good business on this route. Other destinations in Europe may be highly challenging for them.

As for aircraft choice, the A339 is a good aircraft for them due to the lower acquisition costs compared to the B789/A359. However, Boeing's newfound sales competitiveness is now causing them to re-evaluate their options. Boeing also offers the GEnX engines - something that may be an advantage due to the disruptive Trent 1000 engine issues currently experienced and may affect the Trent XWB/7000 in future (no one can discount that!). Tony Fernandes is a self proclaimed fanboy of GE as well...

They may appear to be directionless as far as new European routes are concerned. However, they do know what is needed now - they are no longer prepared to start flights to Europe only to suspend them again. Europe is not a cheap place to operate from. They are also very focussed on maximising their Asia Pacific operations, their "anchor tenants".

Norwegian and Scoot now operates Europe-South East Asia flights. I am sure Airasia X Group is studying these airlines and routes to make some assessment as to whether they are viable.

As to whether Airasia X will ever return to Europe, I believe they will. But don't be surprised if it is Thai Airasia X that launches the first route - either from Bangkok or Phuket.

Frankfurt "was" certainly not their main focus.
The result is that Condor has taken the opportunity on FRA-KUL.
Since MH has pulled out of that route it lay dormant for a while.

Now that Condor (DE) has operated the route for a while it shows that "there is no sufficient market". (pun intended)
... and considering that DE neither has the most efficient aircraft nor low-paid crews it is testament to the saying: "if you´re too hesitant for too long somebody else will do it" (and make it work)
DE´s fares on FRA-KUL are comparable to Air Asia X´s fares of similar routes.
Btw.: nobody said such a route has to be operated daily (DE flies thrice weekly)
Last edited by MHG on Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:03 pm

One other factor is that D7 would definitely have the ability to tap some feeder traffic from their Australian / New Zealand destinations for any European flight, just as TR does (e.g. TR does quite well ex-MEL with ATH-bound passengers).

Cheers,

C.
 
MHG
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:05 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
One other factor is that D7 would definitely have the ability to tap some feeder traffic from their Australian / New Zealand destinations for any European flight, just as TR does (e.g. TR does quite well ex-MEL with ATH-bound passengers).

Cheers,

C.

Similarily DE has sufficient feeder on the European side ...
DE might even generate feed from their U.S. destinations.

So, referring to the initial question I´d say it gets less likely the longer they wait because possibly viable destinations will eventually be taken by other carriers reducing the window for starting again.
Even the advent of newer and much more efficient aircraft like the B787 and A350 do not help if D7 can´t make up their mind.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
c933103
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:19 pm

Other than from SE Asia, I think they have also indicated possibility of starting AirAsia X Japan and fly to Europe from there
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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afterburner
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:21 pm

Lion Air Group is thinking about getting 787s to use them to fly to Europe. If it really happens, the competition will be fierce.
 
MHG
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:50 pm

c933103 wrote:
Other than from SE Asia, I think they have also indicated possibility of starting AirAsia X Japan and fly to Europe from there

But from Japan there would not be really much useful feeder aside from domestic and maybe Korean routes.
afterburner wrote:
Lion Air Group is thinking about getting 787s to use them to fly to Europe. If it really happens, the competition will be fierce.

If that happens it would confirm my statement that the window will get smaller the longer they wait.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
sibibom
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:02 pm

afterburner wrote:
Lion Air Group is thinking about getting 787s to use them to fly to Europe. If it really happens, the competition will be fierce.


Would a 9 abreast A330Neo be more efficient and cheaper than a 9abreast B787-9 (assuming -10 can't make it to Europe)? That would be interesting!
 
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:25 pm

sibibom wrote:
afterburner wrote:
Lion Air Group is thinking about getting 787s to use them to fly to Europe. If it really happens, the competition will be fierce.


Would a 9 abreast A330Neo be more efficient and cheaper than a 9abreast B787-9 (assuming -10 can't make it to Europe)? That would be interesting!

My guess is that the Thai Lion Air that will use the 787 first and I believe Europe is reachable from BKK, DMK, or HKT using the -10.
 
sibibom
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:44 pm

afterburner wrote:
sibibom wrote:
afterburner wrote:
Lion Air Group is thinking about getting 787s to use them to fly to Europe. If it really happens, the competition will be fierce.


Would a 9 abreast A330Neo be more efficient and cheaper than a 9abreast B787-9 (assuming -10 can't make it to Europe)? That would be interesting!

My guess is that the Thai Lion Air that will use the 787 first and I believe Europe is reachable from BKK, DMK, or HKT using the -10.


with 400 people?
 
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afterburner
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:36 pm

sibibom wrote:
afterburner wrote:
sibibom wrote:

Would a 9 abreast A330Neo be more efficient and cheaper than a 9abreast B787-9 (assuming -10 can't make it to Europe)? That would be interesting!

My guess is that the Thai Lion Air that will use the 787 first and I believe Europe is reachable from BKK, DMK, or HKT using the -10.


with 400 people?

Maybe with fewer than 400 seats.
 
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flee
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:48 am

MHG wrote:
Frankfurt "was" certainly not their main focus.
The result is that Condor has taken the opportunity on FRA-KUL.
Since MH has pulled out of that route it lay dormant for a while.

Now that Condor (DE) has operated the route for a while it shows that "there is no sufficient market". (pun intended)
... and considering that DE neither has the most efficient aircraft nor low-paid crews it is testament to the saying: "if you´re too hesitant for too long somebody else will do it" (and make it work)
DE´s fares on FRA-KUL are comparable to Air Asia X´s fares of similar routes.
Btw.: nobody said such a route has to be operated daily (DE flies thrice weekly)


After MH stopped FRA services, LH continued that route for a while - they then suspended it as there was insufficient traffic to continue. DE has yet to begin their services - they are scheduled for the W18 timetable.

D7's current practice is to begin servicing routes 3 or 4 times weekly before making them a daily service. Their policy to "dominate" the market they are in requires more frequency - their existing routes to Australia and North East Asia are following that policy. KUL-NRT-HNL is also going daily after starting at 4X weekly (it was the same for KUL-OOL-AKL). D7 has also stated that it is not a problem if routes are already served by competing airlines - that means that there is demand and that demand can be further stimulated.
 
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:11 am

afterburner wrote:
sibibom wrote:
afterburner wrote:
My guess is that the Thai Lion Air that will use the 787 first and I believe Europe is reachable from BKK, DMK, or HKT using the -10.


with 400 people?

Maybe with fewer than 400 seats.


Their A330 already has 392 seats, with NEO that should be enough range for Europe, whats the point of taking bigger B787-10 if they can't stuff them in (due to exit limit and range limitations for Europe)?

While 8Abreast A330Neo will be at a disadvantage compared to B787 by a few percentages points in terms of cost per seat, How would the 9abreast A330 Neo work? Technically it should fare few percentage points better with sacrificed range obviously.
 
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:26 am

sibibom wrote:
afterburner wrote:
sibibom wrote:

with 400 people?

Maybe with fewer than 400 seats.


Their A330 already has 392 seats, with NEO that should be enough range for Europe, whats the point of taking bigger B787-10 if they can't stuff them in (due to exit limit and range limitations for Europe)?

While 8Abreast A330Neo will be at a disadvantage compared to B787 by a few percentages points in terms of cost per seat, How would the 9abreast A330 Neo work? Technically it should fare few percentage points better with sacrificed range obviously.

I never said that Lion Air Group will get -10s. I personally think -10 is too large for them. I just gave my thought that -10 can reach Europe from Thailand.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:33 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
They obviously need a feeder on the European end, otherwise they won't be able to capture the demand. The demand for these flights is scattered all around Europe instead of concentrated in one place. That was the problem with their previous flights to Europe, they were seeking the demand in one single place. Such a place doesn't exist, but all places in Europe added up do have enough demand.

Could they team up with Wizzair? Let's say Air Asia X flies Kuala Lumpur - Budapest and Wizzair provides the connections between Budapest and the rest of Europe. They're more or less compatible airlines offering the same kind of service, and Budapest is the largest hub for Wizzair.


Honestly, it has to be the UK. The demand for Malaysia - UK flights is incredibly high that they could make it work.

Anywhere else in Europe is a pipe dream.


A relative recently surprised me by saying they were considering flying KL to London on AirAsia. I thought the route had been cancelled (again) so thanks to this thread for reminding me and confirming I didn't get myself mixed up.

I suppose they must have just heard about the old route when it was publicised and didn't realise it had quietly died a little later.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:00 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Honestly, it has to be the UK. The demand for Malaysia - UK flights is incredibly high that they could make it work.

Anywhere else in Europe is a pipe dream.


I completely disagree. Putting all your focus on the UK and leaving out the rest is the clearest example of tunnel vision.

Sure there's a lot of demand from the UK, I believe that. But the UK is a big country and the demand from the UK is scattered across the country. You don't capture that by flying into one place because that one place is only within reach of a small part of the demand.

Compare that to KLM. A different kind of airline, I know, but they're pretty succesful in the UK. The reason? They got the whole country covered by feeder flights. Not just London, but everywhere. They all funnel it through their hub in Amsterdam, and that's is not in the UK.

Now let's get back to Air Asia. It's true a large part of their demand is in the UK, but like I said it's scattered across the country. They don't cover that by flying into one airport, they need feeder flights to get the people from other places to that one airport. And as they got feeder flights anyway, why not feeder the rest of Europe too? Does that one airport they funnel all that traffic through have to be in the UK? No, it doesn't. Just like KLM they can capture the demand from the UK from outside the UK. The additional demand from mainland Europe is a bonus which they can capture just as well anyway.
 
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:47 pm

flee wrote:
After MH stopped FRA services, LH continued that route for a while - they then suspended it as there was insufficient traffic to continue. DE has yet to begin their services - they are scheduled for the W18 timetable.

The reason why LH stopped KUL was insufficient loads in Business Class,
LH relies strongly on business travellers.
In comparison LH struggles for many years with BKK because of the low yields despite the fact that it is a high volume market (which KUL is not and never was for LH ...).
DE on the other hand is a "budget carrier" mainly focused on lower yielding traffic. So, KUL fits them perfectly.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
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flee
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:37 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Now let's get back to Air Asia. It's true a large part of their demand is in the UK, but like I said it's scattered across the country. They don't cover that by flying into one airport, they need feeder flights to get the people from other places to that one airport. And as they got feeder flights anyway, why not feeder the rest of Europe too? Does that one airport they funnel all that traffic through have to be in the UK? No, it doesn't. Just like KLM they can capture the demand from the UK from outside the UK. The additional demand from mainland Europe is a bonus which they can capture just as well anyway.

One of the reasons why they are thinking long and hard about London is the ridiculous APDs. The UK government will actually make more money than Airasia X!

I think that they should really consider flying from AMS and have some sort of agreement with UK LCCs to do the UK-AMS segment of the journey.
 
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Re: Will Air Asia X ever fly back to Europe?

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:49 pm

flee wrote:
One of the reasons why they are thinking long and hard about London is the ridiculous APDs. The UK government will actually make more money than Airasia X!

I think that they should really consider flying from AMS and have some sort of agreement with UK LCCs to do the UK-AMS segment of the journey.


Amsterdam isn't a good starting place either because there are plans to introduce an APD in the Netherlands too. Besides, Amsterdam Airport is pretty full so it'll be hard to get slots. But it doesn't have to be Amsterdam. Like in my example before I mentioned Wizzair as their possible feeder, they got their largest base in Budapest. The chances of Hungary introducing an APD are as good as zero, and from Budapest they can cover the whole continent including the UK.

If they make it "arranged self-transfer with luggage forwarding" then people from the UK (and other countries with APD for that matter) only pay APD on the short-haul flight to Budapest instead of the whole way to Kuala Lumpur. The APD for a short haul flight is much lower than the APD for a long haul flight. But since it's a self-transfer the long haul flight would start in Hungary and therefor the Hungarian APD applies. Only Hungary doesn't have an APD so therefor nothing applies. And this would actually be legal because it's done at Gatwick as well, it's called Worldwide by EasyJet. Another example of arranged self-transfer with luggage forwarding, but no interlining. Difference is that anyone making use of that service pays the British APD so it actually costs more instead of less.

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