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OA940
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New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:36 pm

http://www.thisisinsider.com/aura-priva ... omy-2018-7

https://www.flyaura.com/

So this is beyond cool. I really hope they get off the ground and succeed. They certainly have the potential.
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anshabhi
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:14 pm

What's that french J only airline doing these days??
 
SkyflyerYYZ
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:43 pm

anshabhi wrote:
What's that french J only airline doing these days??

I believe you're talking about La Compagnie?
 
748iDEN
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:44 pm

As someone who flies relatively frequently between DEN and LAX this would be an absolutely fantastic service! Hopefully it get off the ground and does well as I’d love to give it a try.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:47 pm

Commercial carriers have frequency and route networks. Chartering gives the exclusive experience. These guys won't last a year.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:51 pm

Unless they have a lot of cash to burn thru while they build their brand, they're going to fail miserably. The Wave class is a joke. Unless they're flying between LA and NYC, there isn't a need for lie-flat seats ATL-CHI or CHI-NYC.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:07 pm

Yeah, not expecting this to succeed. That model has tried and failed too many times.
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anshabhi
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:23 pm

SkyflyerYYZ wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
What's that french J only airline doing these days??

I believe you're talking about La Compagnie?

Yeah, right!
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Tried and failed...over and over and over...

AirOne...Regent...MGM...Midwest Metrolink...Midwest Express...Legend...EOS...Maxjet...and on and on...
 
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DL747400
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:47 pm

Sounds like a great way to burn through investor's money. Not seeing a viable business plan here, nor any hope for profits. Interiors look rather cold to me. I give them less than 18-months.
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FlyHappy
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:48 pm

My real question is what does the trip cost for these planned routes look like on the CRJ700 that they plan to fly?
I will concede that Aura seems to have a few unique ideas, but they all seem expensive to support, long term.... and certainly not at "affordable" fare levels as is their claim/plan.

Can you imagine what a disaster it would be for them the first time they have an aircraft "go tech" ? Unlike the single route TATL / transcons attempts in the past, Aura's got this spread out route map, that would make service recovery very difficult. To promote 20 minute parking to departure time from a private hanger , a multi hour or more delay would devastating. Can Presidential Aviation (the operator) ensure enough slack in their executive jet fleet to provide the backup?

Why Atlanta? why Denver?

good luck, but.........
 
Italianflyer
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:49 pm

Soooo.....I pay X thousand dollars a year to buy a seat on a plane that flies A to B on Monday & every other Thursday only. Sounds like a home run!! (Hahaha)
 
aviationaware
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:53 pm

Economics of this thing look sketchy at best. A 100$ subscription model to halve flight prices? That doesn't make any sense.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:13 pm

As others have already said, they will fail. No doubt about that. There's just no market for what they're offering.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:36 pm

anshabhi wrote:
What's that french J only airline doing these days??


Still operating 2 757s between ORY & EWR. Next March they should welcome in the fleet 2 A321 LR (from GECAS). They should keep in their fleet 1 757 for doing some J Charters.

Flew with them couple of times. Great experience (good food, quick boarding, cool seats)
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:38 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
My real question is what does the trip cost for these planned routes look like on the CRJ700 that they plan to fly?
I will concede that Aura seems to have a few unique ideas, but they all seem expensive to support, long term.... and certainly not at "affordable" fare levels as is their claim/plan.

Can you imagine what a disaster it would be for them the first time they have an aircraft "go tech" ? Unlike the single route TATL / transcons attempts in the past, Aura's got this spread out route map, that would make service recovery very difficult. To promote 20 minute parking to departure time from a private hanger , a multi hour or more delay would devastating. Can Presidential Aviation (the operator) ensure enough slack in their executive jet fleet to provide the backup?

Why Atlanta? why Denver?

good luck, but.........


I think Miami is a great starting point. I too question Atlanta and Denver. Perhaps Dallas would be better.

They probably are hoping to fill the First Class cabin but I’d think those people would not necessarily tend to be subscribers as much, so would be harder to attract. The Wave cabin will struggle. It will need the revenue from the back just like the majors need the revenue from the back.

I agree with everything you said, though. Nice dream, but founded more on a dream than a business plan probably.

aviationaware wrote:
Economics of this thing look sketchy at best. A 100$ subscription model to halve flight prices? That doesn't make any sense.


$100 through the end of July. After that it’s $250/mo plus a $700 startup fee.

Italianflyer wrote:
Soooo.....I pay X thousand dollars a year to buy a seat on a plane that flies A to B on Monday & every other Thursday only. Sounds like a home run!! (Hahaha)


Where did you get that schedule premise? They are saying double daily at a minimum.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Tokyo777
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:50 pm

This looks like someones school project...
 
Indy
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:02 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
Tried and failed...over and over and over...

AirOne...Regent...MGM...Midwest Metrolink...Midwest Express...Legend...EOS...Maxjet...and on and on...


Same can be said for every other type of airline. How many traditional airlines have failed? It is a grocery list as well. So let's not judge one airline based on the failures of other airlines.

FYI... Here is a list of defunct airlines in the U.S. alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... ted_States

Edit: Adding a list of airline bankruptcies in the U.S as well. Clearly we cannot point fingers at J only airlines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... ted_States
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
DarthLobster
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:27 pm

Because the worldwide success of LCCs and ULCCs at the expense of legacy carries indicates the opposite strategy should work too, no?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:30 pm

Indy wrote:
millionsofmiles wrote:
Tried and failed...over and over and over...

AirOne...Regent...MGM...Midwest Metrolink...Midwest Express...Legend...EOS...Maxjet...and on and on...


Same can be said for every other type of airline. How many traditional airlines have failed? It is a grocery list as well. So let's not judge one airline based on the failures of other airlines.

FYI... Here is a list of defunct airlines in the U.S. alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... ted_States

Edit: Adding a list of airline bankruptcies in the U.S as well. Clearly we cannot point fingers at J only airlines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... ted_States


Perhaps the better approach in this case would be to point out the successes in this category.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
questions
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:09 pm

Who exactly is the target? And what do we know about them?

There have been so many failed attempts at starting up new airlines, especially ones that offer premium service. Because so many airlines are in the race to the bottom and so many members of the flying public are fed up with the current state of commercial flying, on the surface it appears to be an unmet need and therefore a business opportunity. But so many of these failures build their business cases at cocktail parties and spend little to no time identifying, understanding, and quantifying the target for their proposed business. Hence they set themselves up to fail because they glossed over a critical step.

It seems the development of the business case for Aura went something like:

Q: How many people fly between NYC, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, Denver and Los Angeles?
A: A lot

Q: Do we think we could find 29 people flying between each of those markets who would spend coach class prices for a first class offering?
A: Of course

Q: Do we think some of those 29 customers would buy up to a lie-flat product?
A: Totally

Q: Hey, what if we offered a subscription service to lock in pricing and make customers feel they are part of an exclusive membership club? Do we think that would be enough to lure a large enough group of customers to form a core base of loyal flyers in lieu of a FF program?
A: Absolutely

Q: What additional marketing elements would solidify the brand as a premium offering?
A: Put a chef onboard to prepare gourmet meals

Great! Sounds like there is a market for this service and we have a business plan!
 
jem2000
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:13 pm

anshabhi wrote:
What's that french J only airline doing these days??



If you mean Joon, they're up & running I believe - check their website.
 
wjcandee
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:42 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
Tried and failed...over and over and over...

Midwest Metrolink


It was actually Midway Metrolink. What a great service that was. But, yeah, didn't survive.
 
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c933103
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:55 pm

Although it is not what this airlines is going to attempts (with only 29 seats on their CRJ), what if someone is going to create a domestic airlines that all seats are going to be domestic first and only charge a little more? Since in such cases seats will be the same and just a little more amenities (then again I am not talking about the upcoming airlines)
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wjcandee
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:01 pm

The thing here that makes it interesting, as opposed to all those in the past, is the subscription/membership nature of the service, and the fact they're starting with a dinkyjet, not a DC8 or 727 or 757.

The subscription service model actually worked in California with Surf Air. A good friend of mine, a lawyer who works with music and tech companies, joined up and uses it constantly. Despite the fact that it's in a Pilatus single-engine prop, she loves it. It's growing in coverage and popularity. It will be interesting to see whether this is the right time for something like this.

Back when Midway Metrolink started flying 2x2 DC9s from MDW-LGA, buying your ticket onboard and offering fresh cold meals for less than Y on other carriers, MDW wasn't as accepted a place (even though it was more convenient), security generally was much-less-intrusive (because it was operated by the airlines who didn't want to delay pax), people on the "regular" carriers mostly still dressed themselves in light of the fact that they were flying somewhere, etc. I think they would have more of a shot today, particularly in light of the fact that the majors no longer have a Robert Crandall, who would spend any amount of money and/or do anything no matter how crazy to protect his brand and drive the other guy out of business. Operate out of Love Field even if he has the world's biggest hub up the street? No problem. Set up your own 2x2 carrier operating out of Love Field just to compete with a mosquito-sized quality carrier? Easy-peasy! Put massive volume and insanely-low fares on a route blatently just to kill off the other guy's effort to enter? Done over and over, and to some extent recently, but not like before. (Remember when JetBlue tried to serve ATL from LGB? Delta murdered them with low fares and service volume and they retreated for years.)

I think if these guys start off overcapitalized, and do it right, they have a shot. (The only reason JetBlue survived was that Neeleman understood that he needed to be waaaaay overcapitalized and had someone like Soros backing him. The only reason ValuJet survived is that their owners saved every penny they made, rather than promptly dividending investors, so that they had a Billion (with a B) dollars in the bank when 592 happened, and they had the money to hire lawyers and defend themselves from the media onslaught and politicians.) But most entrepreneurs haven't learned that lesson, go in insufficiently-capitalized, and don't have anywhere to turn when they hit the speed bump.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:13 pm

jem2000 wrote:
If you mean Joon, they're up & running I believe - check their website.


No, Joon is just Air France under a different name. They do have economy class, in fact that's most of their business. I believe he was referring to La Compagnie, which is an all-business airline with flights between Paris Orly and New York Newark. That's one of the very few cases where an all-business airline is actually successful.

There used to be OpenSkies as well, also a business class-only airline owned by British Airways. However IAG decided they didn't make enough money and they could make more money on Level. It appears large masses of low paying economy passengers generate more income than a few high-paying business class passengers, let alone the fact that the running costs for business class are much higher.
 
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N62NA
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:18 pm

As usual, there's a crowd here that can't wait to post that they think this will fail. I'm not aware of any other airline that tried this using the CRJ700, so there's no basis to state that they will fail.

Question on the NYC end: Will it be EWR, JFK or maybe TEB?
 
727200
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:22 pm

Well I wish them luck, and I would seriously consider it for my business travel, but I really think unless they have VERY deep pockets it is doomed to failure. The big guys will crush them the moment they start to compete.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:27 pm

N62NA wrote:
As usual, there's a crowd here that can't wait to post that they think this will fail. I'm not aware of any other airline that tried this using the CRJ700, so there's no basis to state that they will fail.

Question on the NYC end: Will it be EWR, JFK or maybe TEB?

:checkmark:

Some of the comparisons being made are ridiculous. MAXJet? Where is the ratted out B762 operating IAD-STN in this business model? Where is the gas guzzling DC-8 that MGM Grand Air operated?

This looks more identical to Ultimate Air Shuttle (which is still in business btw) than the other examples, except this has better markets and a more capable aircraft than Ultimate.
FLYi
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:31 pm

OA940 wrote:
http://www.thisisinsider.com/aura-private-airline-first-class-experience-for-price-of-economy-2018-7

https://www.flyaura.com/

So this is beyond cool. I really hope they get off the ground and succeed. They certainly have the potential.


LOL, thats not even news. Its just a paid blog-vertising article using stock cg imagery. Nice try!

Edit: here is the "CEO"

Image

He was still in high school in 2015. Quite a fast-track career!
Last edited by kjeld0d on Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Alexdk
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:44 pm

I think here and now, Jetsmarter is the closest thing. Jetsmarter is, though, international and essentially offers business jet pooling, while CRJ700 are not really business jets.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:47 pm

N62NA wrote:
As usual, there's a crowd here that can't wait to post that they think this will fail. I'm not aware of any other airline that tried this using the CRJ700, so there's no basis to state that they will fail.

Question on the NYC end: Will it be EWR, JFK or maybe TEB?


HPN
LGA
EWR
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:48 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
OA940 wrote:
http://www.thisisinsider.com/aura-private-airline-first-class-experience-for-price-of-economy-2018-7

https://www.flyaura.com/

So this is beyond cool. I really hope they get off the ground and succeed. They certainly have the potential.


LOL, thats not even news. Its just a paid blog-vertising article using stock cg imagery. Nice try!

Edit: here is the "CEO"

Image

He was still in high school in 2015. Quite a fast-track career!


Lol. Makes sense.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Alexdk
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:56 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
OA940 wrote:
http://www.thisisinsider.com/aura-private-airline-first-class-experience-for-price-of-economy-2018-7

https://www.flyaura.com/

So this is beyond cool. I really hope they get off the ground and succeed. They certainly have the potential.


LOL, thats not even news. Its just a paid blog-vertising article using stock cg imagery. Nice try!

Edit: here is the "CEO"

Image

He was still in high school in 2015. Quite a fast-track career!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristintab ... ir-travel/
Is this also paid for?
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:56 pm

I’m surprised how short some of these routes are, like CHI-ATL/NYC and ATL-MIA. Unless I wanted my employees burning cash, I think I’d prefer them to take one of the majors first class in those markets. $660 is sky-high to travel from ATL to MIA for 1h45m.
 
Indy
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:12 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Perhaps the better approach in this case would be to point out the successes in this category.


Not really. Tell me about the success in the other area. How many times have I heard people say that the best way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and start an airline. Midwest was successful for quite a long time. I believe their troubles started with labor issues and then came 9/11 and the great recession. Numerous airlines bit the dust. Midwest (and currently the sale of premium economy seats) is proof that people are willing to pay more for a better product. So let's see what happens with this new airline.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:45 pm

Indy wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Perhaps the better approach in this case would be to point out the successes in this category.


Not really. Tell me about the success in the other area. How many times have I heard people say that the best way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and start an airline. Midwest was successful for quite a long time. I believe their troubles started with labor issues and then came 9/11 and the great recession. Numerous airlines bit the dust. Midwest (and currently the sale of premium economy seats) is proof that people are willing to pay more for a better product. So let's see what happens with this new airline.


I disagree. The market has changed. We have a variety of models that have seemed to survive, but an independent domestic all-premium hasn’t been one of them. The trend has been in the other direction, and the US3 probably are better equipped than ever to fight for the premium dollars.

I’m not criticizing the effort. I’m just specifically saying that this market segment seems to be the “coffin corner” of startups.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
F9Animal
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:58 pm

I have to agree with others here. I dont see it lasting, let alone getting off the ground. I love the idea, but we have seen plenty of these types of models fail. I personally would be hopeful that they prove us wrong of course!

I think the days of glamour and comfort in the airline industry is long long gone. Nowadays, its about getting as many cheeks in seats as they can.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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c933103
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:58 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Indy wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Perhaps the better approach in this case would be to point out the successes in this category.


Not really. Tell me about the success in the other area. How many times have I heard people say that the best way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and start an airline. Midwest was successful for quite a long time. I believe their troubles started with labor issues and then came 9/11 and the great recession. Numerous airlines bit the dust. Midwest (and currently the sale of premium economy seats) is proof that people are willing to pay more for a better product. So let's see what happens with this new airline.


I disagree. The market has changed. We have a variety of models that have seemed to survive, but an independent domestic all-premium hasn’t been one of them. The trend has been in the other direction, and the US3 probably are better equipped than ever to fight for the premium dollars.

I’m not criticizing the effort. I’m just specifically saying that this market segment seems to be the “coffin corner” of startups.

The Jetblue Mint product shows that even legacy carriers can lose out in the premium product space
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A380MSN004
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:51 pm

c933103 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Indy wrote:

Not really. Tell me about the success in the other area. How many times have I heard people say that the best way to become a millionaire is to be a billionaire and start an airline. Midwest was successful for quite a long time. I believe their troubles started with labor issues and then came 9/11 and the great recession. Numerous airlines bit the dust. Midwest (and currently the sale of premium economy seats) is proof that people are willing to pay more for a better product. So let's see what happens with this new airline.


I disagree. The market has changed. We have a variety of models that have seemed to survive, but an independent domestic all-premium hasn’t been one of them. The trend has been in the other direction, and the US3 probably are better equipped than ever to fight for the premium dollars.

I’m not criticizing the effort. I’m just specifically saying that this market segment seems to be the “coffin corner” of startups.

The Jetblue Mint product shows that even legacy carriers can lose out in the premium product space


Mint product is really cool product. Best Biz Class for transcon US flights
 
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knope2001
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Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:24 am

flyPIT wrote:
N62NA wrote:
This looks more identical to Ultimate Air Shuttle (which is still in business btw) than the other examples, except this has better markets and a more capable aircraft than Ultimate.


That's exactly what came to mind. Except that Ultimate focuses almost exclusively on what customers will pay for:

--Nonstop flights where none exist
--Business-timed nonstop flight aimed especially at same-day round-trip travel
--Private charter experience from the FBO


Those are things a segment of air travel will pay for. Ultimate does (apparently) okay at this in what has been one of the highest air fare markets (Cincinnati) in the country. The average Cincinnati airfare has dropped with ULCC proliferation but Utlimate still gets a solid fare.

Aura's business plan promises a few key things some business travelers will pay more for:
--Private charter experience from the FBO
--Business-timed nonstop flights aimed at save-day round-trip travel

Aura's business plan promises some things which are of uncertain/questionable value to business travelers compared to the high cost to offer them.
These are desirable but it's open to debate if enough added revenue will come in to cover the cost
--Service to multiple airports in each city
--Putting 29 seats on a CR7 (versus 30 seats on a CRJ/ERJ/ER3 which have notably lower aircraft-mile costs than a CR7)
--Flying "frequent departures" which assure there's "always a flight" that fits your schedule.
--Onboard power

Aura's business plan promises lots of things which most business travelers simply won't pay extra for, especially on medium-ish domestic CR7 trips.
--Custom-ordered meals prepared onboard (Wave passengers only)
--Sushi and hot tapas selections for all
--Broad selection of free drinks
--Sleeper seats with "zero gravity" in Wave
--Virtual reality system, complete with IMAX, 3D and 2D blockbuster movies, trending series and documentaries
--OLED augmented-reality windows and ceiling
--Exterior 360-degree camera for a VR experience like sitting on the plane
--F/A ratio of 1:10
--Automatic self-cleaning lavatories with nozzles apparently sanitizing every surface followed by UV light to kill 99% of germs
--Free valet parking
--Airline staff which will take the luggage from your trunk and handle it onward
--Inflight printing
--Comprehensive suite of business services at each airport
--International-standard advanced luggage CT screening and explosive detection
--Complementary IPad for inflight use

Some of those things would be fantastic amenities to have when flying, others would be kind of "eh" to most travelers. But they are all expensive amenities, some exceptionally expensive. It's not that there is absolutely zero value in a better experience. And its not that customers would be happy to sit on milk crates in a dark cabin. But time and again customers have shown these sorts of amenities just don't affect purchase choice much at all. Conventional airlines (from legacy to ULCC) offer various amenities too, but they have their limits and in some cases have a fee to help offset the cost.

I'm sure a great deal of effort is going into this but there are some items which...umm...are either problematic or are not on the pulse of today's premium travel market.
--Custom-ordered meals cooked inflight for Wave class. Nightmare to execute, unlimited potential to disappoint or anger customers.
--Select your own protein form the online Meat Locker (Wave class)
--Sushi and warm tapas choices onboard for all.
--An onboard sweets list straight out of a teenage boy's fantasy including "ice cream, cakes, pies and Lindt chocolates".
--Flight attendants who are notaries


I do think that at the core there could be a market to serve for FBO-to-FBO business flights with <31 seat aircraft. But this business model promises amenities which will drive costs up to astronomical levels. And many of those amenities are unnecessary for the markets being served, unwanted by the customer, and/or virtually undeliverable. Unfortunately.
 
69bug
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:28 pm

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:46 am

I think the only ones to do it well internationally were LH with their DUS-EWR flights (operated by Privatair) and of course .. the Concorde. I've also heard that ANA has an all J to DAC but its been a while since I heard anything about that.

The one factor which would attract me is the lesser seat count which means faster boarding and disembarking. If they could operated into smaller airports this would translate into less time on the ground for the passenger.

bug
 
User avatar
PPVLC
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 12:07 pm

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:59 am

I'm extremely unimpressed by their website, very amateurish.
Cabin crew L188 707 727 737 767 A300 DC10 MD11 777 747
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:05 am

So instead of basic economy, will they have basic business and charge for carry-on bags and food?
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:12 am

knope2001 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
N62NA wrote:
This looks more identical to Ultimate Air Shuttle (which is still in business btw) than the other examples, except this has better markets and a more capable aircraft than Ultimate.


That's exactly what came to mind. Except that Ultimate focuses almost exclusively on what customers will pay for:

--Nonstop flights where none exist
--Business-timed nonstop flight aimed especially at same-day round-trip travel
--Private charter experience from the FBO


Those are things a segment of air travel will pay for. Ultimate does (apparently) okay at this in what has been one of the highest air fare markets (Cincinnati) in the country. The average Cincinnati airfare has dropped with ULCC proliferation but Utlimate still gets a solid fare.

Aura's business plan promises a few key things some business travelers will pay more for:
--Private charter experience from the FBO
--Business-timed nonstop flights aimed at save-day round-trip travel

Aura's business plan promises some things which are of uncertain/questionable value to business travelers compared to the high cost to offer them.
These are desirable but it's open to debate if enough added revenue will come in to cover the cost
--Service to multiple airports in each city
--Putting 29 seats on a CR7 (versus 30 seats on a CRJ/ERJ/ER3 which have notably lower aircraft-mile costs than a CR7)
--Flying "frequent departures" which assure there's "always a flight" that fits your schedule.
--Onboard power

Aura's business plan promises lots of things which most business travelers simply won't pay extra for, especially on medium-ish domestic CR7 trips.
--Custom-ordered meals prepared onboard (Wave passengers only)
--Sushi and hot tapas selections for all
--Broad selection of free drinks
--Sleeper seats with "zero gravity" in Wave
--Virtual reality system, complete with IMAX, 3D and 2D blockbuster movies, trending series and documentaries
--OLED augmented-reality windows and ceiling
--Exterior 360-degree camera for a VR experience like sitting on the plane
--F/A ratio of 1:10
--Automatic self-cleaning lavatories with nozzles apparently sanitizing every surface followed by UV light to kill 99% of germs
--Free valet parking
--Airline staff which will take the luggage from your trunk and handle it onward
--Inflight printing
--Comprehensive suite of business services at each airport
--International-standard advanced luggage CT screening and explosive detection
--Complementary IPad for inflight use

Some of those things would be fantastic amenities to have when flying, others would be kind of "eh" to most travelers. But they are all expensive amenities, some exceptionally expensive. It's not that there is absolutely zero value in a better experience. And its not that customers would be happy to sit on milk crates in a dark cabin. But time and again customers have shown these sorts of amenities just don't affect purchase choice much at all. Conventional airlines (from legacy to ULCC) offer various amenities too, but they have their limits and in some cases have a fee to help offset the cost.

I'm sure a great deal of effort is going into this but there are some items which...umm...are either problematic or are not on the pulse of today's premium travel market.
--Custom-ordered meals cooked inflight for Wave class. Nightmare to execute, unlimited potential to disappoint or anger customers.
--Select your own protein form the online Meat Locker (Wave class)
--Sushi and warm tapas choices onboard for all.
--An onboard sweets list straight out of a teenage boy's fantasy including "ice cream, cakes, pies and Lindt chocolates".
--Flight attendants who are notaries


I do think that at the core there could be a market to serve for FBO-to-FBO business flights with <31 seat aircraft. But this business model promises amenities which will drive costs up to astronomical levels. And many of those amenities are unnecessary for the markets being served, unwanted by the customer, and/or virtually undeliverable. Unfortunately.


I think you’re spot-on here. They took what could be a reasonable, admirable effort and turned into a business man’s Barbie Dream Jet. Wave looks cool, but honestly the only thing I’d incorporate would be the interesting flooring. I’d think for what they’re doing, First Class (their version of it) is plenty good.

They probably should either focus on one or the other - Wave business jets or Aura CR7 (or whatever) all-First Class jets. As it is, though, they are adding a decent amount of premium seating in some of these markets. If AA (for example) matches on price, is there enough for someone to switch over to Aura?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:58 am

First Class fares, Those are one way fares and +100 for some so lets take LAX to DEN $330 pos +100 = $430 so $660 or $860 I"m already paying that or less for F class on AA DL and sometime I fly UA. Plus you have the $1200 ($100month) or $3000 ($250) yearly fee. Not sure on flights schedule But 2 weeks out prices are $500-$650 3 to 4 days out $600+ to $1000 ROUND TRIP.
The big guys are already cheaper. Not has polished but way better schedule and route map.

I like the wave product and if the flight times were right on a trip I might be tempted but most of the the stuff PlanesNTrains says is spot on.

I think you’re spot-on here. They took what could be a reasonable, admirable effort and turned into a business man’s Barbie Dream Jet. Wave looks cool, but honestly the only thing I’d incorporate would be the interesting flooring. I’d think for what they’re doing, First Class (their version of it) is plenty good.

"They probably should either focus on one or the other - Wave business jets or Aura CR7 (or whatever) all-First Class jets. As it is, though, they are adding a decent amount of premium seating in some of these markets. If AA (for example) matches on price, is there enough for someone to switch over to Aura?
-Dave"
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:57 am

Considering one of those "Wave" seats takes up aprox. 3x as much space as a convential First seat, the pricing for those is too low. Very uneconomical use of space. This kid has a business degeree? Either way, who is paying for the refit of the planes? Refitting even a CRJ with this kind of interior is a multi-million enterprise.
 
kimimm19
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:11 am

I wish it well! Anything to upset the non-competition legacy monopoly.
 
FatCat
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:29 am

I've checked the website. Very nice web design.
Nice also the disclaimer that neither Aura nor ZED Aerospace will operate any aircraft.
CRJ 700 seems like a good candidate for such service.
Anyway, who is rich enough will have a smaller airplane, or a bigger (depending on how rich she or he is) for her/himself alone.
Who is rich, but not enough to pay a private flight, will choose a mainline first class service. Most carriers offers little more than 29 first class seats, and you don't have to board with the "plebs" in Economy most of the times. And you have the destinations, the frequency and reliability of main Carriers.
That's my thought
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
drgmobile
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

Re: New luxury airline to offer affordable prices for first-class only aircraft

Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:27 am

The biggest challenge they will have is lack of network. There may be lots of premium traffic between major cities like Chicago and Atlanta but if you live in either market and fly regularly in first or business, you're almost certainly already connected to a major hub airline. Unless the passenger flies on only a handle of routes that coincide with what this company will offers, it's going to be hard to break the loyalty. Where premium only product offerings have been able to work, they've generally been aligned with a network carrier that provides feed onto and beyond the service, such as Open Skies from BA or the PrivatAir service for Lufthansa.

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