CAFF
Topic Author
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:22 am

AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:27 am

What is the story behind the AA F-100 Fleet?
 
N766UA
Posts: 8233
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:39 am

They had one. They don’t anymore.
 
FatCat
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:02 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:03 am

N766UA wrote:
They had one. They don’t anymore.

Short story short,... :rotfl:
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1791
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:40 am

Why Did AA Get F100's? viewtopic.php?t=598109
AA Fokker F100s - Sent Away Too Soon? viewtopic.php?t=1355017
Why Did AA Wait So Long For An F100 Replacement? viewtopic.php?t=588803
American Airlines F-100 Question viewtopic.php?t=220925
What Happened To AA's F100's? viewtopic.php?t=420795
Is There A Buyer For AA's F100 Fleet? viewtopic.php?t=229785
US And AA F-100 Fleets viewtopic.php?t=46801
AA's Fokker 100 Retirement viewtopic.php?t=279221
AA Fokker 100 viewtopic.php?t=102309
Are American's Fokker's Any Good? viewtopic.php?t=83763
AA To Operate Its Last Fokker 100 viewtopic.php?t=271299
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
factsonly
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:58 am

N766UA wrote:
They had one. They don’t anymore.


They had 75x. They don't anymore.

:stirthepot:
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:53 am

Man, I'm not bringing my A-game today. I was sat here wondering what AA needed with a F100 Super Sabre.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1794
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:58 am

I flew PIT-MCI and it seemed quite SLOW. it's the 1st time I seemed tuned into a jets cruise speed.
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1703
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:22 pm

I'm sure the list Juliuswong has above covers 99% of the topic, but as I recall Fokker was desperate to make a big sale, cut Crandall a deal..and the aircraft did serve a purpose..before today's RJ...it was sort of the RJ of its time. BK of Fokker, the fact that they had some sort of engine issue, developed Hanger Queen virus, and I don't think they ever met the advertised performance specs or fuel consumption specs.


when opportunity struck to ditch them, they were toast in short order.
 
Archer
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:07 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:27 pm

The F-100's were really nice planes. Extremely quiet - I lived near the Albany Airport (ALB) and observed them for quite a few years. I flew in several and was sad
when AA decided to sell them. They had 2x3 seating which is great - if you are in the 2 side. Glass cockpit (very advanced at the time they were made) - no that
does not improve the pilots' view - ha, ha. All cockpit instruments are on TV screens. USAir/Allegheny also had a fleet. Main reason for dropping them was the
maintenance got out of hand. Fokker went out of business perhaps an important reason for that. The F-100 was a great improvement over the F-28. It seems the
F-50 (?) came out just before the end for Fokker.
 
djvalume
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:09 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:56 pm

For what it's worth, if memory serves me right, they came with the TWA merger and when they left AA some went to the desert and some to a Canadian LCC that went bust... 3 of the "canadian" ones ended up at my previous operator V3 - Carpatair of Romania (and are still flying as far as I know - I left them 7 years ago)
 
richiemo
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:15 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:58 pm

What a neat looking little plane she was.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:59 pm

Many frequent flyers disliked them because they felt tight inside. Overhead bins were smaller and made roller bags a more difficult prospect, and with only 8 first class seats upgrades were hard to come by. In the early 90's AA narrowbodies usually had 12 F seats and if I recall F was expanded on the M80's later so upgrades were scarce on the F100. So many frequent flyers disliked the F100....until the RJ's came :-)

I don't think passenger dislike was instrumental in the F100's leaving AA, but more than a few frequent flyers were not sad to see them go.
 
djvalume
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:09 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:01 pm

djvalume wrote:
For what it's worth, if memory serves me right, they came with the TWA merger and when they left AA some went to the desert and some to a Canadian LCC that went bust... 3 of the "canadian" ones ended up at my previous operator V3 - Carpatair of Romania (and are still flying as far as I know - I left them 7 years ago)


The V3 ones went straight AA... disregard the TWA bit.

Here's one of them https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-f100-11340.htm
 
gabo787
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:24 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:06 pm

Part of the fleet ended up with AV in Colombia who used them for a short time before replace them with A318’s I believe some of them are now flying in Australia
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5894
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:13 pm

djvalume wrote:
djvalume wrote:
For what it's worth, if memory serves me right, they came with the TWA merger and when they left AA some went to the desert and some to a Canadian LCC that went bust... 3 of the "canadian" ones ended up at my previous operator V3 - Carpatair of Romania (and are still flying as far as I know - I left them 7 years ago)


The V3 ones went straight AA... disregard the TWA bit.

Here's one of them https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-f100-11340.htm


Yeh, they were way pre-TWA.

They were infamous for inadequate airflow parked at the gate in the DFW summer sun. 'Dutch ovens.'
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 2201
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:18 pm

djvalume wrote:
For what it's worth, if memory serves me right, they came with the TWA merger and when they left AA some went to the desert and some to a Canadian LCC that went bust... 3 of the "canadian" ones ended up at my previous operator V3 - Carpatair of Romania (and are still flying as far as I know - I left them 7 years ago)


It was the 717s that came from TWA. TW never had F100s to my knowledge.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:20 pm

Helvetic Airways has operated a total of seven former AA F100:
s/n 11460: operated as HB-JVA from 2003 to 2005 - now with Alliance Airlines in Australia
s/n 11491: operated as HB-JVB from 2004 to 2006 - broken up in 2012
s/n 11501: still operating as HB-JVC for Helvetic Airways
s/n 11498: operated as HB-JVD from 2004 to 2006 - now with IRS Airlines in Nigeria
s/n 11459: still operating as HB-JVE for Helvetic Airways
s/n 11466: still operating as HB-JVF for Helvetic Airways
s/n 11478: still operating as HB-JVG for Helvetic Airways

The other two F100 in 2L's (historic) fleet are former BritAir planes. HB-JVI was broken up in 2016 and HB-JVH ist still active at Helvetic today.

As for the fate of these planes, 2L CEO Tobias Pogorevc recently stated that the company has started looking into concrete replacement plans and that he expects the F100 fleet to be gone by 2020. He mentioned that the company is considering either Embraer (my opinion: most likely E190 / E190E2) or Bombardier (CRK or CSeries) planes to replace the Fokker.
 
Lpbri
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:18 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:27 pm

75 were delivered in 1991-1993 about. 75 options were not exercised. 2 frames were lost in ground incidents. They were retired when AA closed its STL hub. IIRC, AA wanted to operate them under the Eagle banner.
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:40 pm

I always assumed that some of these went to Midway Airlines when Midway “took over” AA’s RDU hub. I remember Midway saying the maintenance was expensive with parts being hard to come by before beginning to transition to a 737-700 fleet.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 L1011 MD80 SF340 AvGeek Superstore
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:56 pm

Here's the Cliffs Notes version:

If memory serves me right they were bought with the intention of using them on short, frequent hops such as DFW-SAT and DFW-AUS but they were found to be inadequate for the task so they were put on longer routes. I know they routinely flew ORD-SAT. I don't have any numbers to back this up but they seemed to be a more common sight at ORD than DFW.

When AA and TW merged AA stuck with the Fokkers. The lease terms on the 717s were awful due to TWs poor credit. AA and Boeing were in negotiations to make some sort of deal to trade the Fokkers and keep the 717s but AA wanted a term of the agreement to be that Boeing couldn't sell or lease the Fokkers to another US Airline. They didn't want some LCC picking them up cheap and using them to compete against AA like ValuJet did with Delta's old DC9s. That effort fell through. AA detuyned the 717s and kept the Fokkers.

Shortly thereafter an AD was issued for the Fokker's engines. AA determined that it was cost prohibitive to comply with it and retired the fleet. This left AA with a huge gap between the Super 80 and the CRJ-700.
 
User avatar
CPHFF
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:03 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:59 pm

AA might be back in for some once REKKOF takes off......... :lol:
If it weren't for UAW, Detroit would shine!
 
flyjoe
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:10 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:22 pm

I was a little uncomfortable with the exits on the F-100 in case of an emergency. You had the overwing exits around row 11-14 depending on the configuration, but the plane had no exits in the aft, unlike other T tail mainline jets of the time like the DC-9, MD-80, 727.
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:13 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Many frequent flyers disliked them because they felt tight inside. Overhead bins were smaller and made roller bags a more difficult prospect, and with only 8 first class seats upgrades were hard to come by. In the early 90's AA narrowbodies usually had 12 F seats and if I recall F was expanded on the M80's later so upgrades were scarce on the F100. So many frequent flyers disliked the F100....until the RJ's came :-)

I don't think passenger dislike was instrumental in the F100's leaving AA, but more than a few frequent flyers were not sad to see them go.


You think the inside was tight? The cargo bins were the worst. At US, we had the F100 and F28, hated working tthe bins. We called the F28s Barbie Jets. To my recollection, the teething issues with the F100s never stopped. Was glad to see the whole lot of them leave.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:49 pm

djvalume wrote:
For what it's worth, if memory serves me right, they came with the TWA merger and when they left AA some went to the desert and some to a Canadian LCC that went bust... 3 of the "canadian" ones ended up at my previous operator V3 - Carpatair of Romania (and are still flying as far as I know - I left them 7 years ago)

Indeed, all the RR Tay Mk 650 powered ones went directly to Michel Leblanc's "JetsGo". (Leblanc had operated F100s earlier, when he owned Intair).

The F100s with less powerful Tay Mk 620 are the ones that must have ended in the desert.
 
mchei
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:50 pm

There’s also a story of incidents around the F-100 at TAM in Brazil. A couple of them were sold to a company in Germany that operated flights on behalf of LH Cityline.
F70-F100-E145-E170-E190-319-320-321-735–736-737-738-752-763–742-744-333-343-ATR72-Metroliner-Saab2000-Lockheed Electra-C172-C182-C182RG-MD11
 
User avatar
CrimsonNL
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:37 pm

The majority of the AA Fokkers are still active today with various airlines. Helvetic and Carpatair have been pointed out. Trade Air is another operator with two ex-AA frames. A vast part of the Austrian Airlines Fokker fleet were all transfers from AA. They have in turn, now been sold to Alliance Aviation in Australia. Also in Australia, QantasLink flies them.

As for the TAM incidents, I have no in depth knowledge about those. But it is interesting that none of the other Fokker operators worldwide have experienced similar incidents.

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
DaveFly
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:41 pm

FWIW, I loved flying on the F100s, and I did so very often out of SWF and HPN. AA SWF-ORD, US HPN-PIT, Midway SWF-RDU-Florida. They were quiet and comfortable.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
hooverman
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:52 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
The majority of the AA Fokkers are still active today with various airlines. Helvetic and Carpatair have been pointed out. Trade Air is another operator with two ex-AA frames. A vast part of the Austrian Airlines Fokker fleet were all transfers from AA. They have in turn, now been sold to Alliance Aviation in Australia. Also in Australia, QantasLink flies them.

As for the TAM incidents, I have no in depth knowledge about those. But it is interesting that none of the other Fokker operators worldwide have experienced similar incidents.

Martijn


All I read is how it was a hangar queen... With the proper maintenance these birds are still going strong.
 
TEY1330
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:46 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:53 pm

For only having 75 I seemed to be on them a lot. They did seem tight before MRTC! Wish I had been able to try the American Airlines Executive Flagship F100 service from DAL.
 
User avatar
ssteve
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:19 pm

Archer wrote:
I lived near the Albany Airport (ALB) and observed them for quite a few years. I flew in several and was sad
when AA decided to sell them.


I also flew them out of Albany, which makes me wonder whether losing these planes had something to do with AA quitting Albany. Not worth upgaging.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:34 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Many frequent flyers disliked them because they felt tight inside. Overhead bins were smaller and made roller bags a more difficult prospect, and with only 8 first class seats upgrades were hard to come by. In the early 90's AA narrowbodies usually had 12 F seats and if I recall F was expanded on the M80's later so upgrades were scarce on the F100. So many frequent flyers disliked the F100....until the RJ's came :-)

I don't think passenger dislike was instrumental in the F100's leaving AA, but more than a few frequent flyers were not sad to see them go.

7 years ago, in March 2011, I flew MLH-ORY and back the following day on Air France (op by Brit Air in both cases) - I was on a two month old CRK outbound, and a 16 year old F100 on the way back. Both flights I was in a window seat in Row 2 or 3.

I found the Fokker much roomier and more comfortable than the Canadair, and, as far as I can remember, it was quieter inside, too.
 
LAXffDUB
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:05 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:29 pm

I flew them regularly between HPN and ORD. I still prefer them to the RJs being used now. They were mainline service. You felt akin to being on an MD-80 and the overhead bins would accept a wider variety of carry-ons.
 
User avatar
proudpilot94
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:08 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:35 pm

I know some went to Avianca. I remember flying on one of those with a big AA logo on one of the class division panels. It was in 2006.
 
DeltaXNA
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:01 am

Was Fokker pronounced Foker or Focker? I always pronounced it Foker.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:08 am

djvalume wrote:
For what it's worth, if memory serves me right, they came with the TWA merger and when they left AA some went to the desert and some to a Canadian LCC that went bust... 3 of the "canadian" ones ended up at my previous operator V3 - Carpatair of Romania (and are still flying as far as I know - I left them 7 years ago)


I think you might be referring to the 717 fleet, which was TWA's and was inherited as part of the merger/acquisition by AMR of TWA. The leases on the 717's were very high at the time, because TWA had a poor credit rating, and were therefore returned to lessors.
 
User avatar
neomax
Posts: 945
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:12 am

DeltaXNA wrote:
Was Fokker pronounced Foker or Focker? I always pronounced it Foker.


There's an old joke somewhere about a 747 pilot next in line to land after a Fokker, remarking to ATC "I've waited my entire life to say this- I've got the little Fokker in sight."

So that probably gives you an idea. :stirthepot:
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:24 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
Man, I'm not bringing my A-game today. I was sat here wondering what AA needed with a F100 Super Sabre.


https://www.boeing.com/history/products/f-100-super-sabre.page
The jet fighter was originally powered by a Pratt & Whitney J57-P-7 axial-flow engine. Later models of the F-100 were powered by a Pratt & Whitney J57-P-21A engine.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_J57#cite_note-JAWA62-63-8
JT3D/TF33:A turbo-fan derivative of the J57.


[url]
http://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php?id=72[/url]
707-120B
Now this is one heck of a change. Basically, you take a 707-120, and apply nearly every change from the 720 and 720B combined. You end up with a "720B stretch". So to go from 707-120 to 707-120B you do this:
Add wing glove, replace big ventral fin with small one, add flaps inboard of the inboard engines, add flaps outboard of the outboard engines, give it JT3D's, add the stab extensions, remove the #1 and #4 t/c's and give it 720B-style pylons, and you get this:
Max speed M=0.90. Only ordered new by AA and TWA, all others converted from -120's. The last few newly built ones ordered by AA and TWA had the later-style nose-gear doors


So, even more of a 'bad-a**" move - strapped 4 of them, to a 707. Now, not to add salt to the wound, but isn't that what essentially killed the CV990 at AA?
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:28 am

What were the overall niches of the aircraft, at AA? What were the other US operators at the time?
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:00 am

Rajahdhani wrote:
What were the overall niches of the aircraft, at AA? What were the other US operators at the time?


US Air and Midway (the second one).
Ben Soriano
 
kabq737
Moderator
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Re: AA F-100 Fleet

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:26 am

I have a close friend who has been flying at AA for quite some time. He has flown the 727, 737, F100, and MD80 with them. He always mentions that the F100 was his favorite airliner to fly. He stated that it was extremely nimble and that it was a pilots airplane. He also mentioned that the cockpit was advanced for the time and logically set up. Interesting how mechanic and pilot opinions of an aircraft can be so different!
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
Airliners.net Forum Moderator

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos