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JannEejit
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:24 am

dodoma wrote:
I find it very interesting that the A220 is lacking the "racoon mask"... Would have looked better IMO


I think that would look good yes, we'll just have to wait for Air Canada to receive theirs...
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:45 am

Can't help thinking that in Airbus house colours it looks a lot like a tiny A350-900 !
 
mat66
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:49 am

Looks like 35 years later Airbus regrets the 320, 321, 319 thing. But they painted themselves in a corner with the A320-100 and A320-200.
So by the time the A321 came, calling a 7m stretch just A320-300 wasn’t an option any more. Same with A319 (A320-50?)
Looking forward a possible stretch of either or both the A320 and A321 could be called A320-300 and A321-300 respectively.
 
nicode
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:52 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
So only 8 CS100’s built....very rare frame now.

Only Swiss if I'm not mistaken?
Now, Swiss will be the only operator with CS100 and A221 ? And Swiss and AirBaltic with CS300 and A223.
 
osupoke07
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:56 am

skipness1E wrote:
I wonder if it'll ever be known by the Airbus nomenclature or remain forever as the C Series, the 717 was really just an MD95.


This is quite a bit different. With the MD-95, we had a rebrand of the last model of a long and successful airframe originating and growing from the DC-9. That would be similar to someone buying the 737 program and renaming the last iteration.

The C-series is a brand new product that has only 36 produced frames (per wiki.). If Airbus can take this product and grow it into a 1,000+ plane, it will almost certainly be known and remembered as the A-220.
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:58 am

frigatebird wrote:
dodoma wrote:
I find it very interesting that the A220 is lacking the "racoon mask"... Would have looked better IMO

I'm very pleased it doesn't have the 'racoon mask'. On the A350 it's ok as long as the tube is white. With other non-white liveries like QR and VN it looks unnecessary. On the A330neo it looks plain silly IMO.

The raccoon mask and the blocky cockpit window design of the A320 and A330 do not work well at all together. Hopefully it will not be commonplace for the A330neo as it is for the A350.
 
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 pm

https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/ ... 0182726656

Interesting. Also Airbus states the CSeries (A220) production line will be able to do 50-60 aircraft a month. The deliveries and backlog numbers are expected to change soon.
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Polot
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:01 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1016610880182726656

Eh just marketing. Notice how they break out the Max 200, which is just the 8 with an extra pair of doors, yet don’t bother distinguishing between A321 ACF and old A321 layout.
 
osupoke07
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:01 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1016610880182726656

Interesting. Also Airbus states the CSeries (A220) production line will be able to do 50-60 aircraft a month. The deliveries and backlog numbers are expected to change soon.


Interesting comparison. They have the 737-8 on there twice by counting the 200 seat option for ULCC and the 737-9 which is effectively dead once current orders are produced. On a going forward basis, the narrow body lineup in terms of number of models is equal between the two. I get that marketing slides are going to put the home product in the best light, but that's a stretch.
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:03 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Can't help thinking that in Airbus house colours it looks a lot like a tiny A350-900 !


I'd say it actually looks pretty smart in those colours. Very nice.
 
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:07 pm

osupoke07 wrote:
Interesting comparison. They have the 737-8 on there twice by counting the 200 seat option for ULCC and the 737-9 which is effectively dead once current orders are produced. On a going forward basis, the narrow body lineup in terms of number of models is equal between the two. I get that marketing slides are going to put the home product in the best light, but that's a stretch.

I see what you did there. :lol:
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:12 pm

The A319 needs to go and a A220-400 or 500, whatever you want to call it, needs to come.
 
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:13 pm

The wing planform looks like a mini a350 wing....
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planecane
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:16 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1016610880182726656

Interesting. Also Airbus states the CSeries (A220) production line will be able to do 50-60 aircraft a month. The deliveries and backlog numbers are expected to change soon.


I thought I've seen some impressive marketing spin in my life but the pic in that tweet takes the cake!

Airbus is trying to say it is a negative that Boeing offers more variations of the 737. Why is this a negative for a customer? For Boeing, it introduces a little production complexity and possibly some cost. For customers, why do they care that Boeing offers models that they don't buy?

I also like how they made the comparison of the ranges above 100 seats, making the E175-E2 disappear from the lineup because Airbus doesn't offer an under 100 seat option.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:19 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
The A319 needs to go and a A220-400 or 500, whatever you want to call it, needs to come.

The CS300...err A220-300 is the same size (capacity) as the A319. A A220-400 or -500 or whatever would compete with the A320.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:25 pm

Well congrats Airbus with the renaming of the CSeries. I wish you would have chosen A360-100 and A360-300. But it looks pretty cool in Airbus house livery.

I wonder if they plan on adding additional models to the A200-series range, and if so - will they share the flight deck commonality?

I'm also curious if current CSeries operators will change the nomenclature in their own marketing material and onboard safety brochures etc.?
 
 
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:34 pm

Polot wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1016610880182726656

Eh just marketing. Notice how they break out the Max 200, which is just the 8 with an extra pair of doors, yet don’t bother distinguishing between A321 ACF and old A321 layout.

Wasnt the ACF going to be the only A321neo model at some point once ceos stopped being built?
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:34 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Seriously, if a stretch model of the A220-300 is launched, it could be named A220-400. Or -600, Airbus seems to like that one :P Hopefully not -800, the so called lucky number 8 is quite the opposite! (A380-800, 787-8, 747-8, A330-800 - none have proven to be a success)


And don't forget the Convair CV880, of which only 65 were sold. The 8s didn't bring any luck there either. After the commercial flop that was the CV880 (and its derivative the CV990 a.k.a. Coronado, with just 37 sales), Convair decided to leave the civil aircraft market, never to return. And although I wouldn't call the Douglas DC8 a failure, with more than 500 sold, it still didn't live up to Douglas' expectations and its late arrival to the market allowed Boeing to take the lead in the market.
Last edited by TurboJet707 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:43 pm

Bricktop wrote:
So BCS1 = A221 and BCS3 = A223? A225 is already taken though. ;)


Well frankly, all chances of a CSeries stretch died anyway when Airbus took over.
 
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:46 pm

Does anyone know if the Q400 will be rebranded or are Airbus likely to drop the design for the sales books all together?
 
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cosyr
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:53 pm

skipness1E wrote:
I wonder if it'll ever be known by the Airbus nomenclature or remain forever as the C Series, the 717 was really just an MD95.

I don't know, but BAe-146's vs Avro jets were generally named by when they were produced, I think. But airlines seemed to adopt the titles Q200 and Q300 retroactively, as none of them were built after that naming was adopted by Bombardier, though some still used Dash-8.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:56 pm

tomcoppins wrote:
Does anyone know if the Q400 will be rebranded or are Airbus likely to drop the design for the sales books all together?


The Q400 is not part of the package and it still a Bombardier aircraft. Airbus only bought 50.01% of the CSeries program.
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:56 pm

ro1960 wrote:


And not a single word about the Bombardier heritage. It reads like Airbus developed the plane themselves, and as if the 'A220' was suddenly just there, like magic.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:08 pm

TurboJet707 wrote:
ro1960 wrote:


And not a single word about the Bombardier heritage. It reads like Airbus developed the plane themselves, and as if the 'A220' was suddenly just there, like magic.


Read again or just read it, it's all there in the second paragraph.
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:12 pm

Flyglobal wrote:
I think the Name is well Chosen.
The A220 is a reference to the A320 - the smaller brother/ sister. The -100 and -300 represents the CS origin.

Flyglobal

A220 is very well chosen as:
1. Allows growth in the C-series range.
2. Left A200 and A210 open for the future (MRJ?, Turboprops?)
3. As you note implies a smaller A320
4. Growth models (Turboprops, next gen C-series).

Lightsaber
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TurboJet707
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Sorry, but when I clicked on the link, I only saw:

Airbus A220-300 new member of the airbus Single aisle Family
The A220 Family is the newest addition to the Airbus product line-up; The aircraft are fully optimized for the 100 to 150 seat market and perfectly complement Airbus’ existing best-selling A320neo family.

Airbus has revealed the A220 at a ceremony held at its Henri-Ziegler Delivery Centre, near Toulouse.


Now I see the text on the lower part of the page. I'm almost sure it wasn't there initially. Thanks anyway.
 
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:29 pm

I think that Airbus nailed the branding. Well done, and in time for Farnborough. Hope to see you next week Babybus.

500-600 aircraft per year is an amazing production capacity. I hope to see a major ramp-up to full production capacity so that this great aircraft becomes commonplace.
The A223 should sell like hot cakes now. Lessors should flock like vultures, with SUH taking the lead.
Airbus will not disappoint next week and a B6 deal should be in the bag now.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:45 pm

Regarding the naming, good to keep the 100 and 300 designators. And also good to break that gimmicky trend of using the number's 800, 900, and 1000 on new "Airbus" designs. Or 8, 9, and 10 in Boeing speak.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:53 pm

Is there any chance of these aircraft getting a short conversion course or common type rating with other airbus product
 
Pepper456
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:56 pm

For Brazilians, RIP Embraer it Will have almost certain the same destino of bombardier
 
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OA940
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:59 pm

#CSERIESBESTSERIES #BRINGBACKTHECSERIES #SAVETHECSERIES #STOPTHISMADNESS

So after Airbus demonstrated that they are complete morons. It wasn't enough that they ruin the name, they had to make it demeaning in comparison with their own products. Well I guess the superior program has to lose something.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
bigjku
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:00 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that Airbus nailed the branding. Well done, and in time for Farnborough. Hope to see you next week Babybus.

500-600 aircraft per year is an amazing production capacity. I hope to see a major ramp-up to full production capacity so that this great aircraft becomes commonplace.
The A223 should sell like hot cakes now. Lessors should flock like vultures, with SUH taking the lead.
Airbus will not disappoint next week and a B6 deal should be in the bag now.


That seems like a hugely optimistic production number. It would necessitate a backlog of 3,000 or so aircraft to justify the investment necessary to get to that point.

Almost every airline out there is already on the books for a NEO or MAX model in sufficient numbers to replace their narrowbody fleets.

Where does one find the orders to support this kind of rate?
 
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EightyFour
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:01 pm

Really happy they didn't go for the stupid 8/800 nomenclature.
 
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angusjt
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:01 pm

A220 sounds like a Chinese bootleg IMO

I wish Airbus all the best regardles.
 
Samrnpage
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:05 pm

Breaking: Here she is! History is made as we meet the @Airbus #A220-300 on her exclusive fly-past, here at Airbus headquarters Toulouse.

The A220-300 is the larger of the two (former #CSeries) aircraft, the smaller version is known as A220-100.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:08 pm

OA940 wrote:
#CSERIESBESTSERIES #BRINGBACKTHECSERIES #SAVETHECSERIES #STOPTHISMADNESS

So after Airbus demonstrated that they are complete morons. It wasn't enough that they ruin the name, they had to make it demeaning in comparison with their own products. Well I guess the superior program has to lose something.



#SAVETHECSERIES? That's just what Airbus has done. If you want to blame someone for what is happening with de C-series is should be Boeing....
 
Bricktop
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:09 pm

LoganTheBogan wrote:
https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1016610880182726656

Interesting. Also Airbus states the CSeries (A220) production line will be able to do 50-60 aircraft a month. The deliveries and backlog numbers are expected to change soon.

Can you provide a link to that? It's an extraordinarily high number for anything not A320/B737 family. Can't be accurate.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:11 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Is there any chance of these aircraft getting a short conversion course or common type rating with other airbus product


Probably not. From what I have gathered on here, the only thing they have in common is the use of a sidestick.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
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OA940
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:11 pm

IWMBH wrote:
OA940 wrote:
#CSERIESBESTSERIES #BRINGBACKTHECSERIES #SAVETHECSERIES #STOPTHISMADNESS

So after Airbus demonstrated that they are complete morons. It wasn't enough that they ruin the name, they had to make it demeaning in comparison with their own products. Well I guess the superior program has to lose something.



#SAVETHECSERIES? That's just what Airbus has done. If you want to blame someone for what is happening with de C-series is should be Boeing....


Fair enough lol. I'm still bitter about the name though. Not saying Boeing didn't massively cause this though. Also I guess we're expecting the 607 now.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:13 pm

Pepper456 wrote:
For Brazilians, RIP Embraer it Will have almost certain the same destino of bombardier


Bombardier has not been eliminated ! Only the C-Series name will go, Airbus have bought into this project only. Other Bombardier Aerospace projects remain as before. Quite what Boeing and Embraer want to call their product partnership remains to be seen. ;)
Last edited by JannEejit on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Peterwk146
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 pm

MesserJ wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
dodoma wrote:
I find it very interesting that the A220 is lacking the "racoon mask"... Would have looked better IMO

I'm very pleased it doesn't have the 'racoon mask'. On the A350 it's ok as long as the tube is white. With other non-white liveries like QR and VN it looks unnecessary. On the A330neo it looks plain silly IMO.

The raccoon mask and the blocky cockpit window design of the A320 and A330 do not work well at all together. Hopefully it will not be commonplace for the A330neo as it is for the A350.

In your opinion.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:16 pm

IWMBH wrote:
OA940 wrote:
#CSERIESBESTSERIES #BRINGBACKTHECSERIES #SAVETHECSERIES #STOPTHISMADNESS

So after Airbus demonstrated that they are complete morons. It wasn't enough that they ruin the name, they had to make it demeaning in comparison with their own products. Well I guess the superior program has to lose something.



#SAVETHECSERIES? That's just what Airbus has done. If you want to blame someone for what is happening with de C-series is should be Boeing....


If you want to blame someone for what's happening with the CSeries, it should be Bombardier. It was launched in 2007, took 9 years to bring into service, and in the two years since it entered service, they've delivered all of 36 of the type. Meanwhile, Bombardier has been on the financial brink, and lots of their programs (not just airplanes) are struggling (ask Toronto how they like those streetcars).

The Boeing / ITC thing was only a few month diversion in a decade-long saga.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
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glideslope
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:18 pm

Kind of feel for all those employees at Bombardier that brought this frame to life only to have it claimed by another for no effort other than a 1% advantage in ownership. Hope they all have the same jobs five years from now.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:25 pm

Boeing just sped the process along, BBD was not going to make the C series work alone. Remember Quebec had to bail out the program before the Boeing saga, and BBD was already shopping around for a partner (including offering part of the program to Airbus before the Quebec bailout). A healthy and stable program wouldn’t be sold for $1 over a tariff issue involving 75 planes. That’s like saying Airbus needs to sell off half their programs because they may no longer be able to fulfill the Iran order.
Last edited by Polot on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
osupoke07
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:27 pm

OA940 wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
OA940 wrote:
#CSERIESBESTSERIES #BRINGBACKTHECSERIES #SAVETHECSERIES #STOPTHISMADNESS

So after Airbus demonstrated that they are complete morons. It wasn't enough that they ruin the name, they had to make it demeaning in comparison with their own products. Well I guess the superior program has to lose something.



#SAVETHECSERIES? That's just what Airbus has done. If you want to blame someone for what is happening with de C-series is should be Boeing....


Fair enough lol. I'm still bitter about the name though. Not saying Boeing didn't massively cause this though. Also I guess we're expecting the 607 now.


I'm partial to 717-300/400 for the 190/195, and something else for the 170/175 since those are regional models. Use 717 for acquired mainline planes.
MD82, MD83, MD88, B717, B732, B733, B735, B737, B738, B739, B752, B763, B77W, CR2, CR7, CR9, A320
 
planecane
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:31 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Is there any chance of these aircraft getting a short conversion course or common type rating with other airbus product


ZERO chance. They'd have to re-do the cockpit, avionics and reprogram the flight control system. Other than that, the C-series is exactly the same as an A320 to fly because they both have a sidestick.
 
timf
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:36 pm

Bricktop wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
https://twitter.com/airwayslive/status/1016610880182726656

Interesting. Also Airbus states the CSeries (A220) production line will be able to do 50-60 aircraft a month. The deliveries and backlog numbers are expected to change soon.

Can you provide a link to that? It's an extraordinarily high number for anything not A320/B737 family. Can't be accurate.

I think this was a misquote. The proper statement is the new Mobile assembly line will be able to do 50-60 aircraft annually.
 
Flighty
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:40 pm

Sad to see the Bombardier name die in the sector. Monopoly is real, kids!
 
MD80MKE
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Re: Airbus rebrands C-Series to A220

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:41 pm

First order win is coming. Jetblue is expected to place an order A220 per Reuters.

The CSeries has been locked in a fierce competition for a deal to supply jets to U.S. carrier JetBlue (JBLU.O) and is in poll position to win as Airbus also offers more attractive delivery positions on its larger planes, industry sources said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1K015H

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