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A310
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What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:19 pm

Hi everyone. I am curious about what the Miracle on the Hudson pilots is doing now. I see both of them are giving speeches and that Skiles works for AA, flying the A330, while Sully retired from the sky shortly after the accident.

But do someone knows more about their current status. Have Skiles been promoted to captain again, or does he remain as a FO? Are their speeches open to the public?

I think many of us are curious about this topic, so if you know anything, feel free to drop a comment :)
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:00 pm

Sully is still an important public figure in aviation. He is quite active on his Twitter account and has a book out, I believe.
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Redwood839
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:03 pm

I follow Sully on Social Media and he recently kinda backed away from it a bit, I think he even posted not too long ago the reasons for it but I skipped on reading it.

Sully was before/during the accident an aviation (safety?) consultant so I think he went back to that and giving conferences, as I remember him being very active around SOCAL. I personally stopped following him when he started criticizing the hour requirement for regional pilots and wanted something really high up established which is contrary to my belief and thought that it should be a fair amount of hours where you've been trained on actually hand flying the plane, being able to recover and actually responsible for the people behind you and your aircraft in an emergency (not talking 150 hours here folks). I don't believe you should have 3K hours (or something like that,don't quote me on it) as he wanted for regional jets.

Sure, he was an extremely professional pilot who saved a lot of lives and flew thousands of flights with professionalism and safety, but the days of when he was trained back in the day and now are different. Technology is different now days and training is more advanced, you shouldn't be trying to stop young pilots who work their behinds off to go through flight school and minimal wage CFI/Caravan like flying trying to achieve their dream of flying jets.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:05 pm

I read an article from Skiles in Flying Magazine (maybe, could have been another), he was writing columns for them and flying the 787 for AA.
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:56 pm

I know that he joined CBS News as their aviation consultant, shortly after his retirement. I checked the listing of staff bios from their website and he was no longer shown as a contributor so I’m assuming that he is no longer with the network. He is involved in regular speaking engagements and writing books focusing on the aviation industry and safety.
 
A310
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:58 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
I read an article from Skiles in Flying Magazine (maybe, could have been another), he was writing columns for them and flying the 787 for AA.


Sounds interesting :D Do you have a link?
 
stlgph
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:23 pm

if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Armodeen
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:45 pm

Agreed, and I stopped following him for the same reason.

Redwood839 wrote:
I follow Sully on Social Media and he recently kinda backed away from it a bit, I think he even posted not too long ago the reasons for it but I skipped on reading it.

Sully was before/during the accident an aviation (safety?) consultant so I think he went back to that and giving conferences, as I remember him being very active around SOCAL. I personally stopped following him when he started criticizing the hour requirement for regional pilots and wanted something really high up established which is contrary to my belief and thought that it should be a fair amount of hours where you've been trained on actually hand flying the plane, being able to recover and actually responsible for the people behind you and your aircraft in an emergency (not talking 150 hours here folks). I don't believe you should have 3K hours (or something like that,don't quote me on it) as he wanted for regional jets.

Sure, he was an extremely professional pilot who saved a lot of lives and flew thousands of flights with professionalism and safety, but the days of when he was trained back in the day and now are different. Technology is different now days and training is more advanced, you shouldn't be trying to stop young pilots who work their behinds off to go through flight school and minimal wage CFI/Caravan like flying trying to achieve their dream of flying jets.
 
apodino
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:48 pm

Jeff Skiles is currently an FO on the 787 for American. He was on the 330 for USAirways during the merger but moved to the 787 after the fences came down.
 
stburke
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:05 pm

Being shills for ALPA and pumping up the arbitrary 1,500 hour rule. Aka "important research."
 
sgbroimp
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:08 pm

Wouldn't he be approaching the age/seniority level where move up to Capt. would be expected?
 
alesfr
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:28 pm

stlgph wrote:


Exchanging and sharing are wonderful concepts too, you know ;)
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VolvoBus
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:28 pm

sgbroimp wrote:
Wouldn't he be approaching the age/seniority level where move up to Capt. would be expected?


Does AA give him the option of staying a {presumably} very senior FO on 787 wherever he is based, thus flying pretty much where and when he wants, in preference to sitting on permanent reserve in New York ?
 
32andBelow
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:38 pm

Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:56 pm

sgbroimp wrote:
Wouldn't he be approaching the age/seniority level where move up to Capt. would be expected?


The legacies are ripe with senior FO’s who are happy to sit right seat international widebody versus fly left seat on a mostly domestic narrow body schedule.
 
Redwood839
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:24 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
sgbroimp wrote:
Wouldn't he be approaching the age/seniority level where move up to Capt. would be expected?


Does AA give him the option of staying a {presumably} very senior FO on 787 wherever he is based, thus flying pretty much where and when he wants, in preference to sitting on permanent reserve in New York ?


Probably. He lives in Wisconsin (per his site) and does a lot of conferences and show ups etc. He owns a C180 which is very active on flightaware as well, so I'd imagine he doesn't stick around ORD where he is based all day just waiting around.

He has a couple of good stories on Flying Magazine including a long journey into Canada.
 
catiii
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:41 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


Agreed. The sanctimonious and holier than thou tone wears thin as well.
 
codc10
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:07 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
sgbroimp wrote:
Wouldn't he be approaching the age/seniority level where move up to Capt. would be expected?


Does AA give him the option of staying a {presumably} very senior FO on 787 wherever he is based, thus flying pretty much where and when he wants, in preference to sitting on permanent reserve in New York ?


Upgrades and fleet are at his discretion (unless displaced) and based on whatever his seniority can hold. As a senior FO at a major carrier, you can approach CAP pay on widebody equipment with relatively low workload, a favorable/predictable schedule, productive trips and good layovers. The quality of life is pretty good and for many, not worth the additional pay of a left seat but comparatively worse seniority.

I know a few pilots who flew as WB F/O for a decade or more, only taking a CAP bid toward the end of their respective careers when they could carry over a similar QOL.
 
A310
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:09 pm

stlgph wrote:


I saw the website of Skiles and wanted to hear if there was someone who knows more details about what he and Sully are doing now-
 
A310
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:09 pm

stlgph wrote:


I saw the website of Skiles and wanted to hear if there was someone who knows more details about what he and Sully are doing now.
 
A310
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:20 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


Sadly yes. Colgan Air 3407, the accident that has served as the major argument for people in favor of the 1500-hour requirement was not caused by lack of experience, but rather fatigue. Also, the pilots had about 3400 and 2300 hours respectively. Far more than the (in)famous 1500 hours.
 
A310
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:27 pm

stburke wrote:
Being shills for ALPA and pumping up the arbitrary 1,500-hour rule. Aka "important research."


Yeah, true...
But I was referring to what they have been doing after that, and what their current (professional) situation is.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
sgbroimp wrote:
Wouldn't he be approaching the age/seniority level where move up to Capt. would be expected?


Does AA give him the option of staying a {presumably} very senior FO on 787 wherever he is based, thus flying pretty much where and when he wants, in preference to sitting on permanent reserve in New York ?


I dont know what his seniority is. Just because he is famous doesn't mean the airline gives him special treatment seniority wise or that he is very senior. He bids what his seniority can hold. As a 787 FO, he can likely hold a captain line on narrow body equipment in the same base but the QOL would be different. For some, widebody FO reserve can be pretty good QOL. Some on widebody FO reserve don't work very much but still get paid the monthly guarantee. Good pay for sitting at home. For some it is better than flying multi leg days as a narrow body captain.

There are a lot of people with the same or similar time in company as Skiles that aren't that senior. Just because you are older or have a ton of flight time doesn't make you senior. Your date of hire does.

A really bad pilot can be the most senior widebody captain with the highest pay and best schedule and the best pilot can be the most junior on reserve with a crappy narrowbody schedule and lowest pay. Seniority is everything.
 
goboeing
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:31 pm

A310 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


Sadly yes. Colgan Air 3407, the accident that has served as the major argument for people in favor of the 1500-hour requirement was not caused by lack of experience, but rather fatigue. Also, the pilots had about 3400 and 2300 hours respectively. Far more than the (in)famous 1500 hours.


Fatigue?

Recovering from a stall is never, ever, ever done by hauling back on the yoke! That is not a fatigue issue.

And as pilot monitoring, if you see your colleague doing this, and see the stall continuing, it is not fatigue that makes you decide to raise the flaps and put the icing on the cake!

It was lack of training and lack of quality experience, and a captain with a history of problems.

You're saying that 2300 hours total time in the right seat is plenty.

But what is the F/O actually heard saying on the CVR that night?

That she's not ready for upgrade!!

Wake up people!

When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.
 
32andBelow
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:50 pm

goboeing wrote:
A310 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


Sadly yes. Colgan Air 3407, the accident that has served as the major argument for people in favor of the 1500-hour requirement was not caused by lack of experience, but rather fatigue. Also, the pilots had about 3400 and 2300 hours respectively. Far more than the (in)famous 1500 hours.


Fatigue?

Recovering from a stall is never, ever, ever done by hauling back on the yoke! That is not a fatigue issue.

And as pilot monitoring, if you see your colleague doing this, and see the stall continuing, it is not fatigue that makes you decide to raise the flaps and put the icing on the cake!

It was lack of training and lack of quality experience, and a captain with a history of problems.

You're saying that 2300 hours total time in the right seat is plenty.

But what is the F/O actually heard saying on the CVR that night?

That she's not ready for upgrade!!

Wake up people!

When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.

No if you can demonstrate you can pass a rigouriius training, sim and IOE program you should be a pilot. The pic in this case failed a bunch of checkrides. That’s on the trainers not on hard working safe pilots that now need to go 200k in debt to work.
 
PDX88
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:47 am

goboeing wrote:
When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.


So how about the FO of Colgan 3407 with over 2200 hours? Flight hours don't mean squat when it comes to measuring experience. Anyone can go spin circles in a Piper Cub over a patch of dirt in Kansas until their logbook says 1500 hours, but no better of a pilot than they were at 250. But in the eyes of the FAA they're somehow experienced enough to earn an ATP. Weekend fliers, flight instructors, part 91, and part 135 pilots all come to the regionals with the same amount of hours but vastly different skill levels. "An hour is an hour" is complete BS.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:49 am

32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


So, airline pilots shouldn’t be required to be licensed as AIRLINE PILOT? Do you really think 250hours, or 6 weeks of full-time work qualifies one to be an airline pilot. Would you go to a doctor with 250 hours of experience or employ a defense lawyer with a total of 250 billable hours? No wonder people have so little respect for piloting.

GF
 
32andBelow
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:16 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


So, airline pilots shouldn’t be required to be licensed as AIRLINE PILOT? Do you really think 250hours, or 6 weeks of full-time work qualifies one to be an airline pilot. Would you go to a doctor with 250 hours of experience or employ a defense lawyer with a total of 250 billable hours? No wonder people have so little respect for piloting.

GF

Totally not comparable and you have no idea what your talking about. At 250 hours you have your commercial ratings. And that’s 250 fight time with engine on. Nothing else. Comparing the skill to fly a plane vs being a doctor isn’t in the same galaxy.
 
Max Q
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:34 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


So, airline pilots shouldn’t be required to be licensed as AIRLINE PILOT? Do you really think 250hours, or 6 weeks of full-time work qualifies one to be an airline pilot. Would you go to a doctor with 250 hours of experience or employ a defense lawyer with a total of 250 billable hours? No wonder people have so little respect for piloting.

GF



Well said


Standards and required experience should
remain at a high level for a pilot to be hired
at a major airline


That means at least 1500 hours with a substantial amount of multi engine time and an ATP



Experience, training and high standards are the reason we have such a safe airline industry in the US
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Ionosphere
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:35 am

The three Charlotte based Flight Attendants were Donna Dent, Sheila Dail, and Doreen Welsh.

Doreen was seriously injured and never flew again as a FA. I believe either Sheila or Donna has recently retired.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:04 am

Armodeen wrote:
Agreed, and I stopped following him for the same reason.

Redwood839 wrote:
I follow Sully on Social Media and he recently kinda backed away from it a bit, I think he even posted not too long ago the reasons for it but I skipped on reading it.

Sully was before/during the accident an aviation (safety?) consultant so I think he went back to that and giving conferences, as I remember him being very active around SOCAL. I personally stopped following him when he started criticizing the hour requirement for regional pilots and wanted something really high up established which is contrary to my belief and thought that it should be a fair amount of hours where you've been trained on actually hand flying the plane, being able to recover and actually responsible for the people behind you and your aircraft in an emergency (not talking 150 hours here folks). I don't believe you should have 3K hours (or something like that,don't quote me on it) as he wanted for regional jets.

Sure, he was an extremely professional pilot who saved a lot of lives and flew thousands of flights with professionalism and safety, but the days of when he was trained back in the day and now are different. Technology is different now days and training is more advanced, you shouldn't be trying to stop young pilots who work their behinds off to go through flight school and minimal wage CFI/Caravan like flying trying to achieve their dream of flying jets.


Sully's posts have shifted from quasi-informative (albeit heavily pushing an agenda) to downright "grumpy old man" at times lately, missing the hypocrisy of deriding lobbyists while he himself was one in his own way, yet people eat it up because of celebrity. Some of them feel more like fearmongering than anything else.

He also doesn't get anywhere near the number of replies he used to to the 1500 hour rule posts. On a very narrow view of things, I'd actually like to see his reaction if 1500 gets walked back; he'll go thermonuclear.
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goboeing
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:14 am

PDX88 wrote:
goboeing wrote:
When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.


So how about the FO of Colgan 3407 with over 2200 hours? Flight hours don't mean squat when it comes to measuring experience. Anyone can go spin circles in a Piper Cub over a patch of dirt in Kansas until their logbook says 1500 hours, but no better of a pilot than they were at 250. But in the eyes of the FAA they're somehow experienced enough to earn an ATP. Weekend fliers, flight instructors, part 91, and part 135 pilots all come to the regionals with the same amount of hours but vastly different skill levels. "An hour is an hour" is complete BS.


Yes, how about the F/O of Colgan 3407.

She was on the CVR talking about how she did not feel like she was ready to upgrade.

2200 hours.

It's still very light on total time.

Need I say more?
 
PDX88
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:16 am

goboeing wrote:
PDX88 wrote:
goboeing wrote:
When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.


So how about the FO of Colgan 3407 with over 2200 hours? Flight hours don't mean squat when it comes to measuring experience. Anyone can go spin circles in a Piper Cub over a patch of dirt in Kansas until their logbook says 1500 hours, but no better of a pilot than they were at 250. But in the eyes of the FAA they're somehow experienced enough to earn an ATP. Weekend fliers, flight instructors, part 91, and part 135 pilots all come to the regionals with the same amount of hours but vastly different skill levels. "An hour is an hour" is complete BS.


Yes, how about the F/O of Colgan 3407.

She was on the CVR talking about how she did not feel like she was ready to upgrade.

2200 hours.

It's still very light on total time.

Need I say more?


You're comparing experience to hours again. I've flown with 5000 hour captains who are worse pilots than some sub-1000 hour FOs. The question is how did she earn those 2200 hours? Why was she not ready for an upgrade at 2200 when other pilots are? Not all hours are equal.
 
Armodeen
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:31 am

Max Q wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


So, airline pilots shouldn’t be required to be licensed as AIRLINE PILOT? Do you really think 250hours, or 6 weeks of full-time work qualifies one to be an airline pilot. Would you go to a doctor with 250 hours of experience or employ a defense lawyer with a total of 250 billable hours? No wonder people have so little respect for piloting.

GF



Well said


Standards and required experience should
remain at a high level for a pilot to be hired
at a major airline


That means at least 1500 hours with a substantial amount of multi engine time and an ATP



Experience, training and high standards are the reason we have such a safe airline industry in the US


Except it’s no safer than Western Europe which doesn’t have those restrictions?
 
Max Q
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:04 am

Sully and Skiles were and are the epitome of professionalism


As Airline Pilots they are still an example to follow



And Sully has been a great advocate for working pilots since that day on the Hudson


Different countries have varying requirements but 1500 hours and an ATP is and should remain a bare minimum to work as a pilot for a major airline
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
T1a
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:32 am

So, airline pilots shouldn’t be required to be licensed as AIRLINE PILOT? Do you really think 250hours, or 6 weeks of full-time work qualifies one to be an airline pilot. Would you go to a doctor with 250 hours of experience or employ a defense lawyer with a total of 250 billable hours? No wonder people have so little respect for piloting.


1500 hours and an ATP is and should remain a bare minimum to work as a pilot for a major airline


Being a pilot in Europe it always raises my eyebrows when this 1500h minimum discussion comes up. There has never been a minimum like that over here and most pilots join major airlines right after passing their CPL/IR or MPL license, so at roughly 300h. By the way, it takes about two years to get there, not 6 weeks. At my pilot-school it was 12 months of theoretical training alone, before we ever even touched an airplane.
Over here it's all about rigorous selection of the candidates and high quality training. And I don't see airplanes of airlines like Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Austrian or Swiss drop out of the sky at an alarming rate. All of which almost exclusively hire from their own pilot-schools with all of their new-hire pilots at around 300h.
If never flown commercially in the US, but from what I've read on here, we have other safety nets in place over here. For example in case of an MPL license the type-rating and line-training are actually part of the licensing, you actually receive the license after the type-rating but it's technically not complete until the line-training has been completed. Also the line-training takes 200h, most of that with flight instructors, the rest of it with specially trained highly experienced captains. And even after the line-training is completed you're still restricted and can't be paired with a captain that just came out of his line-training for another 100h.

And as stated above, I've never seen an analogy between the hours a colleague has and his skill.

All in all I cannot see how so many of my US colleagues are in favor of the 1500h rule, but I'm sure they have their reasons.

Cheers to you all,
T1a
All views expressed under this username are mine as a private person and don't necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
 
Redwood839
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:48 pm

goboeing wrote:
PDX88 wrote:
goboeing wrote:
When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.


So how about the FO of Colgan 3407 with over 2200 hours? Flight hours don't mean squat when it comes to measuring experience. Anyone can go spin circles in a Piper Cub over a patch of dirt in Kansas until their logbook says 1500 hours, but no better of a pilot than they were at 250. But in the eyes of the FAA they're somehow experienced enough to earn an ATP. Weekend fliers, flight instructors, part 91, and part 135 pilots all come to the regionals with the same amount of hours but vastly different skill levels. "An hour is an hour" is complete BS.


Yes, how about the F/O of Colgan 3407.

She was on the CVR talking about how she did not feel like she was ready to upgrade.

2200 hours.

It's still very light on total time.

Need I say more?


Then it's her professional responsibility to say so and ask to stay where she was. You can't be forced to do something.

Let me ask you this, are you an ATPL? Do you fly for a major airline? If you did, how many hours did you have when you started flying for a major?

I hope it was 2500 and that you had to pay every single one of them out of your own pocket and actually worked hard to through it.

I started flying regionals when I was 21 with 800 hours but that was because I flew multiple light G/As for other people, and I can tell you that I probably flew by hand more than the captains I flew with. Training is different now days, if you wanted to fly at 1500/2000 hours, then good for ya. But most people don't need that many. If you're a shitty pilot that actually needs those hours to be able to properly fly a plane under all circumstances, then you probably shouldn't be a pilot.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5206
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:52 pm

Redwood839 wrote:
goboeing wrote:
PDX88 wrote:

So how about the FO of Colgan 3407 with over 2200 hours? Flight hours don't mean squat when it comes to measuring experience. Anyone can go spin circles in a Piper Cub over a patch of dirt in Kansas until their logbook says 1500 hours, but no better of a pilot than they were at 250. But in the eyes of the FAA they're somehow experienced enough to earn an ATP. Weekend fliers, flight instructors, part 91, and part 135 pilots all come to the regionals with the same amount of hours but vastly different skill levels. "An hour is an hour" is complete BS.


Yes, how about the F/O of Colgan 3407.

She was on the CVR talking about how she did not feel like she was ready to upgrade.

2200 hours.

It's still very light on total time.

Need I say more?


Then it's her professional responsibility to say so and ask to stay where she was. You can't be forced to do something.

Let me ask you this, are you an ATPL? Do you fly for a major airline? If you did, how many hours did you have when you started flying for a major?

I hope it was 2500 and that you had to pay every single one of them out of your own pocket and actually worked hard to through it.

I started flying regionals when I was 21 with 800 hours but that was because I flew multiple light G/As for other people, and I can tell you that I probably flew by hand more than the captains I flew with. Training is different now days, if you wanted to fly at 1500/2000 hours, then good for ya. But most people don't need that many. If you're a shitty pilot that actually needs those hours to be able to properly fly a plane under all circumstances, then you probably shouldn't be a pilot.


I agree wholeheartedly. Colgan's crew had 1800 and 700 hours beyond 1500 to get it right and still blew it. The Comair crew that missed multiple cues and ran a CRJ off the runway at LEX had 4000 and 6000TT respectively. Training, not time.

There's no reason for 1500 beyond a media-hungry Senator looking for a quick solution trying to win votes and fool people into thinking he's made a difference. Tie Sully's stamp of approval in and John Q. Public doesn't know any differently and doesn't care. It's a feel-good law. The only benefit to Sully's ongoing campaign is that it raised salaries at regionals, which I've always wondered was the true motivation for the law but wasn't a sexy enough headline. Don't get me wrong, regional salaries were pathetic (and why I got out of the career path) and needed brought up, but is misleading the public the way to do it?
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highflier92660
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:07 pm

apodino wrote:
Jeff Skiles is currently an FO on the 787 for American. He was on the 330 for USAirways during the merger but moved to the 787 after the fences came down.




Jeff Skiles must be in his late fifties now so likely he may retire as a Boeing 787 first officer. His post-airline career affords a lot of opportunity on the lecture circuit and as a contributing aviation writer.
 
ckfred
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:53 pm

You also have to remember that Sully went into commercial aviation, when the vast majority of commercial pilots were ex-military. A friend of mine started at AA in 1989, and pretty much every captain he flew with for the first few years had done at least two tours of duty in the Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps. Several of the captains he flew with regularly had flown combat missions in Vietnam.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2729
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:33 pm

If she'd had 2200 hours as a FO on the type and didn't feel ready for the upgrade, that's one thing. Having 2200 hours in total, of which 2000 could have been flying an assortment of bugsmashers, is quite another.

This side of the pond just about every LCC, including Ryanair and Easy, and legacy carrier put 200 hour ab-initio kids in the RHS of 737s and A320s, and they regularly upgrade them after 4 years/3500 hours. This has been going on for many years now, and safety wise it has had the sum total impact of zero, telling you all you need to know about the ineffective 1500 hour rule.

The reason you crash an airworthy modern turboprop lies not in total hours, but in airline training and a rostering/basing system that doesn't warrant commuting and crash pads. The latter, which works, would cost involve large costs for the airlines, whilst the former, which doesn't, places the burden solely on the individual pilot. That's the power airline lobbyism explained very simply.
Signature. You just read one.
 
Randy41018
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:06 am

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:37 pm

sgbroimp wrote:
Wouldn't he be approaching the age/seniority level where move up to Capt. would be expected?


I’d rather be a high seniority FO than a low seniority CA.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 299
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:43 pm

I'm pretty sure the airline pilot that writes the articles in Flying magazine is Les Abend.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
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Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:32 pm

I saw an episode of American Pickers where the guys go to an aviation museum and Skiles greets them and gives them a tour. They didn't know who he was until the told them he was the guy in the other seat. He is involved in that museum and seemed to be really in to it. They were in Oshkosh WI
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:13 pm

I'm going to be a bit critical and anal, but there is something bothering about this thread, all the way from the OP's title to other comments.

The man's name is not "Sully". It's Sullenberger, Mr. Sullenberger, Captain Sullenberger, or maybe Chesley Sullenberger.

We aren't his buddy who may call him by his nickname. He successfully ditched an A320. He deserves more respect than having complete strangers call him a nickname that maybe only his close friends do (if anyone even calls him that).

Would you like strangers referring to you as Smitty, Beefcakes, Clown, Jonesy, or whatever only your closest personal friends may call you? Let's show some respect to others.
 
Etheereal
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:01 pm

32andBelow wrote:
goboeing wrote:
A310 wrote:

Sadly yes. Colgan Air 3407, the accident that has served as the major argument for people in favor of the 1500-hour requirement was not caused by lack of experience, but rather fatigue. Also, the pilots had about 3400 and 2300 hours respectively. Far more than the (in)famous 1500 hours.


Fatigue?

Recovering from a stall is never, ever, ever done by hauling back on the yoke! That is not a fatigue issue.

And as pilot monitoring, if you see your colleague doing this, and see the stall continuing, it is not fatigue that makes you decide to raise the flaps and put the icing on the cake!

It was lack of training and lack of quality experience, and a captain with a history of problems.

You're saying that 2300 hours total time in the right seat is plenty.

But what is the F/O actually heard saying on the CVR that night?

That she's not ready for upgrade!!

Wake up people!

When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.

No if you can demonstrate you can pass a rigouriius training, sim and IOE program you should be a pilot. The pic in this case failed a bunch of checkrides. That’s on the trainers not on hard working safe pilots that now need to go 200k in debt to work.

Dont forget to thank the banks that you're allowed to breathe at all . Im amazed there's not HUGE costs associated with high school, or else americans would be even more in debted. lol

Its okay, everyone in any "high" end career needs to mortgage even their own organs.
 
A310
Topic Author
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:57 am

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:37 pm

goboeing wrote:
A310 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Sully has made it his mission to destroy regional aviation by pushing insane pilot hour minimums.


Sadly yes. Colgan Air 3407, the accident that has served as the major argument for people in favor of the 1500-hour requirement was not caused by lack of experience, but rather fatigue. Also, the pilots had about 3400 and 2300 hours respectively. Far more than the (in)famous 1500 hours.


Fatigue?

Recovering from a stall is never, ever, ever done by hauling back on the yoke! That is not a fatigue issue.

And as pilot monitoring, if you see your colleague doing this, and see the stall continuing, it is not fatigue that makes you decide to raise the flaps and put the icing on the cake!

It was lack of training and lack of quality experience, and a captain with a history of problems.

You're saying that 2300 hours total time in the right seat is plenty.

But what is the F/O actually heard saying on the CVR that night?

That she's not ready for upgrade!!

Wake up people!

When you are PIC and you have an abnormal situation, you will at that moment be glad that at least the 1500 hour rule attempts to raise the bar to a bare minimum.


I think you got me wrong. I am against the 1500- hour rule for new hire FOs. However, I don´t think pilots with as little as 2000, or even 3000 flying hours should be Captains of Airliners. And yes, better training would have made wonders. Not only in this accident but also in a number of others. Also, i think it should be more acceptable for pilots to take days off when they feel ill, or too tired for safe flight operations.
Last edited by A310 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
A310
Topic Author
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:57 am

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:43 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm going to be a bit critical and anal, but there is something bothering about this thread, all the way from the OP's title to other comments.

The man's name is not "Sully". It's Sullenberger, Mr. Sullenberger, Captain Sullenberger, or maybe Chesley Sullenberger.

We aren't his buddy who may call him by his nickname. He successfully ditched an A320. He deserves more respect than having complete strangers call him a nickname that maybe only his close friends do (if anyone even calls him that).

Would you like strangers referring to you as Smitty, Beefcakes, Clown, Jonesy, or whatever only your closest personal friends may call you? Let's show some respect for others.


Well, there has been made a movie called Sully, it is common to use it in popular speech, and he even uses it on his Twitter account, so I guess he is okay with it ;)
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:55 pm

A310 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm going to be a bit critical and anal, but there is something bothering about this thread, all the way from the OP's title to other comments.

The man's name is not "Sully". It's Sullenberger, Mr. Sullenberger, Captain Sullenberger, or maybe Chesley Sullenberger.

We aren't his buddy who may call him by his nickname. He successfully ditched an A320. He deserves more respect than having complete strangers call him a nickname that maybe only his close friends do (if anyone even calls him that).

Would you like strangers referring to you as Smitty, Beefcakes, Clown, Jonesy, or whatever only your closest personal friends may call you? Let's show some respect for others.


Well, there has been made a movie called Sully, it is common to use it in popular speech, and he even uses it on his Twitter account, so I guess he is okay with it ;)


Fair. If he invites the public to call him that then I stand down on my previous comments.
 
A310
Topic Author
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:57 am

Re: What are Sully and Skiles doing now? (2018)

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:34 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
A310 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm going to be a bit critical and anal, but there is something bothering about this thread, all the way from the OP's title to other comments.

The man's name is not "Sully". It's Sullenberger, Mr. Sullenberger, Captain Sullenberger, or maybe Chesley Sullenberger.

We aren't his buddy who may call him by his nickname. He successfully ditched an A320. He deserves more respect than having complete strangers call him a nickname that maybe only his close friends do (if anyone even calls him that).

Would you like strangers referring to you as Smitty, Beefcakes, Clown, Jonesy, or whatever only your closest personal friends may call you? Let's show some respect for others.


Well, there has been made a movie called Sully, it is common to use it in popular speech, and he even uses it on his Twitter account, so I guess he is okay with it ;)


Fair. If he invites the public to call him that then I stand down on my previous comments.


Haha okay ;)
He seems to be a very nice and humble man. The same goes for Skiles.

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