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stl07
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:14 pm

Backfilling capacity cut by others?
EDIT: Im not the OP
 
Redwood839
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Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:17 pm

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/turkish ... venezuela/

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ase-maduro

http://www.eluniversal.com/politica/146 ... -venezuela

More sources in Spanish as well

MIAMI — Venezuelan dictator Nicolas Maduro announced yesterday that Turkish Airlines (TK) will open up a base in Caracas (CCS) to exploit “Latin American and Caribbean” operations.

This unexpected announcement was made by Maduro from Ankara, where he is holding meetings with Turkey’s President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan.


Welp, that seems like a recipe for disaster and a loss maker. I'm not sure if he just said it cause Maduro and Erdogan are sweetening each other up, but it doesn't make much sense.

If they want to exploit Latin America and the Caribbean then they're choosing the wrong country for that. No one in this part of the world wants to fly to Venezuela at this time (I'm sure it's a beautiful country, but not good for visiting right now).
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:25 pm

Unless we hear something officially from Turkish Airlines, this has to be vaporware sold by Maduro and his posse. What purpose would a base in CCS serve for TK?
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:26 pm

Reminds me of the CCS-DAM "terror flight" A342. viewtopic.php?t=966135
Last edited by kjeld0d on Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:32 pm

"Base" is the wrong term.

TK is looking to open markets like Peru, Ecuador and Chile so a routing via CCS would be an option.

TK has actually done well in CCS. With such a pullback of service by other airlines, its been able to garner good amount of the remaining traffic, much of it quite high yielding.
Additionally eventually when things change in Venezuela, TK (and Turkish companies investing there) be sitting in a good place to take advantage of market expansion.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Avianca
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:36 pm

LAXintl wrote:
"Base" is the wrong term.

TK is looking to open markets like Peru, Ecuador and Chile so a routing via CCS would be an option.

TK has actually done well in CCS. With such a pullback of service by other airlines, its been able to garner good amount of the remaining traffic, much of it quite high yielding.
Additionally eventually when things change in Venezuela, TK (and Turkish companies investing there) be sitting in a good place to take advantage of market expansion.


agree would make sense.

4 x weekly SCL-CCS-IST
3 x weekly HAV-CCS-IST
4 x weekly LIM-CCS-IST
3 x weekly UIO-CCS-IST
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LH658
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:31 pm

Wow good news for Venezuela
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:38 pm

Expanding in South America is a priority for TK per its CEO last month

https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/07/03/tur ... to-expand/
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:52 pm

While I agree that TK wants to expand in the region, transiting in CCS these days is asking for trouble. True, TK has been operating at places such as Mogadishu, so CCS may end up being like landing in Zurich by comparison.

In any case, horror stories coming from both airport employees and passengers @ CCS.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:35 am

TK won't have to tanker fuel ... and probably will get a "special price" per gallon of Jet A-1.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:58 am

Good luck with that!
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:18 am

Avianca wrote:

agree would make sense.

4 x weekly SCL-CCS-IST
3 x weekly HAV-CCS-IST
4 x weekly LIM-CCS-IST
3 x weekly UIO-CCS-IST


CCS-IST twice daily? WOW that's ambitious! Could start with ONE daily flight, plus:

2 x weekly SCL-CCS-IST
3 x weekly LIM-CCS-IST
2 x weekly UIO-CCS-IST

HAV could get its own dedicated flight, decoupled from CCS.

Also, these american flights do not need to be operated by an Airbus 330. TK could base a 737-800 in CCS and fly these segments more efficiently.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:41 am

Erdogan & Maduro... what a friendly crowd.

Maybe Conviasa should codeshare with TK and launch CCS-IST-IKA to remember those flights via DAM 10 years ago.
 
OGLOBAL
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:19 pm

never going to happen ever.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:43 pm

It is a political not a commercial derision between two totalitarian "leaders". TK just followed orders.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Let's play this is going to happen although it won't.

Why would pax originating in SCL, LIM or UIO choose to fly via CCS when they have multiple options to get to main destinations in ME/Asia on 2 stops and some of them even on 1-stop?

AFAIK TK is flying a HAV-CCS triangular to avoid crew staying at CCS so now are they going to establish a hub in CCS?
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,732,733,735,737,738,739,752,722,717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,M83,M87,M88,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346,359,388,L1011,CR2,CR9,CR10,E175,E190,ATR42,DSH8,CS1,CS3
 
Avianca
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:00 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
Let's play this is going to happen although it won't.

Why would pax originating in SCL, LIM or UIO choose to fly via CCS when they have multiple options to get to main destinations in ME/Asia on 2 stops and some of them even on 1-stop?

AFAIK TK is flying a HAV-CCS triangular to avoid crew staying at CCS so now are they going to establish a hub in CCS?


not true, crew is staying in CCS - better to say in Playa Grande in Vargas / La Guira area.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:18 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
L
Why would pax originating in SCL, LIM or UIO choose to fly via CCS when they have multiple options to get to main destinations in ME/Asia on 2 stops and some of them even on 1-stop?


Same reason, for example, clients buy tickets on TK from EZE even though the plane stops in GRU before proceeding to IST.

Really the fact that a stop might be in CCS or XYZ really should not matter. I doubt the average customer would even know(or care) as they are focused on buying tickets on TK to either Turkey, or one of the hundreds of beyond markets via IST. This has nothing to do with CCS.
 
airbazar
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:25 pm

LAXintl wrote:
"Base" is the wrong term.

TK is looking to open markets like Peru, Ecuador and Chile so a routing via CCS would be an option.

TK has actually done well in CCS. With such a pullback of service by other airlines, its been able to garner good amount of the remaining traffic, much of it quite high yielding.
Additionally eventually when things change in Venezuela, TK (and Turkish companies investing there) be sitting in a good place to take advantage of market expansion.


Garnering a good amount of traffic was never an issue for any of the airlines. They didn't stop serving CCS because of lack in demand. They left CCS because they were not able to repatriate the money that they made in Venezuela.
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:42 pm

airbazar wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
"Base" is the wrong term.

TK is looking to open markets like Peru, Ecuador and Chile so a routing via CCS would be an option.

TK has actually done well in CCS. With such a pullback of service by other airlines, its been able to garner good amount of the remaining traffic, much of it quite high yielding.
Additionally eventually when things change in Venezuela, TK (and Turkish companies investing there) be sitting in a good place to take advantage of market expansion.


Garnering a good amount of traffic was never an issue for any of the airlines. They didn't stop serving CCS because of lack in demand. They left CCS because they were not able to repatriate the money that they made in Venezuela.


That was a few years ago. As Venezuela's situation started to deteriorate further, airlines also left for operational safety reasons, such as not wanting assets or staff overnighting there. While the few airlines left operating there may have sort of a sellers' market, there is simply no way that today's CCS could support the level of supply & demand it had pre-chavismo and up to 2012 or so.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:47 pm

Dismissing politics, do you think it makes business sense for TK to open a base in CCS having BOG and PTY as Star hubs?
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,732,733,735,737,738,739,752,722,717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,M83,M87,M88,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346,359,388,L1011,CR2,CR9,CR10,E175,E190,ATR42,DSH8,CS1,CS3
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:04 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
Dismissing politics, do you think it makes business sense for TK to open a base in CCS having BOG and PTY as Star hubs?


It could be that Venezuela is offering them 5th freedom rights which would help fill those planes CCS-XXX-CCS. For example, there are currently no nonstop flights between CCS and SCL- a favourite destination for the venezuelan diaspora-. Passengers between these cities need to fly COPA via PTY and pay a hefty bill. This could be a business growth opportunity for TK.

On the other hand, maybe Colombia and Panamá wouldn't grant these rights, complicating the operation a bit.

Also, BOG is slot restricted (Not ala Heathrow, though), whereas CCS' airport is deserted.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:15 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
Dismissing politics, do you think it makes business sense for TK to open a base in CCS having BOG and PTY as Star hubs?


TK has a very extensive codeshare with CM. All the way from Mexico to Argentina.

Just to put it in perspective, here is a map in gcmap of all the codeshares of TK and CM in the Americas: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=PTY-cun%2Fgdl%2Fmex%2Fmty%2Fdav%2Fbsb%2Fpoa%2Fgig%2Fmao%2Fcnf%2FGRU%2FGYE%2FUIO%2FASU%2FLIM%2FROS%2FMDZ%2FEZE%2FCOR%2Fscl%2Fgeo%2FSAL%2FSDQ%2FPUJ%2Fbaq%2Fbog%2Fbga%2Fctg%2Fclo%2Fmde%2Fpei%2Fsjo%2Flir%2Fgua%2Fpos%0D%0A&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%22%25U%25+%28N%2212&MS=bm&DU=mi
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:08 pm

Do you really think this is about business?
If CCS would offer business growth opprtunities like some of you are foreseeing do you really think the likes of LH, AF, AZ, IB, TP and UX would have ceased or reduced ops at CCS?
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,732,733,735,737,738,739,752,722,717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,M83,M87,M88,310,319,320,321,332,333,343,346,359,388,L1011,CR2,CR9,CR10,E175,E190,ATR42,DSH8,CS1,CS3
 
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mercure1
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:19 pm

TK makes money in markets other avoid - Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Iraq, etc.

They know how to make sweet lemonade from lemons, so don't see why they cant make the adversity in Venezuela to their advantage.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:27 pm

They still need to repatriate earnings - or only sell tickets outside of the country. That's not exactly serving Venezuela nor the market.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:45 pm

mercure1 wrote:
TK makes money in markets other avoid - Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Iraq, etc.

They know how to make sweet lemonade from lemons, so don't see why they cant make the adversity in Venezuela to their advantage.


Especially when they have two dictatorial governments on their side!
 
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Polot
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:53 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
Dismissing politics, do you think it makes business sense for TK to open a base in CCS having BOG and PTY as Star hubs?


It could be that Venezuela is offering them 5th freedom rights which would help fill those planes CCS-XXX-CCS. For example, there are currently no nonstop flights between CCS and SCL- a favourite destination for the venezuelan diaspora-. Passengers between these cities need to fly COPA via PTY and pay a hefty bill. This could be a business growth opportunity for TK.

On the other hand, maybe Colombia and Panamá wouldn't grant these rights, complicating the operation a bit.

Also, BOG is slot restricted (Not ala Heathrow, though), whereas CCS' airport is deserted.


The thing is due to the issues in Venezuela the Venezuelan diaspora are not going back to the country even to visit remaining relatives (too dangerous). That is not the market to target for growth.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:26 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
They still need to repatriate earnings - or only sell tickets outside of the country. That's not exactly serving Venezuela nor the market.


Repatriation not really an issue for TK.

As it does in several other markets around the world, TK can structure funding via barter or arbitrage. Besides TK acquiring other goods and services in the country with its income, Venezuela also has recently been paying some Turkish back companies via its global gold reserve holdings and cryptocurrencies.

But the reality is that the forecast near $2bil in trade between the nations in 2018 heavily favors Venezuela, so TK can leave the excess money it makes in the country to cover these owed debt. In return TK simply gets reimbursed back in another jurisdiction. This is how many Turkish (and companies from other nations that have trade deficits with Venezuela like India) can work things out.

Venezuela is not a very complex nation for TK. Going back decades its done much more complex deals involving everything from oranges, to cooking oils, and other merchandise to settle accounts around the world.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:18 pm

Polot wrote:
The thing is due to the issues in Venezuela the Venezuelan diaspora are not going back to the country even to visit remaining relatives (too dangerous). That is not the market to target for growth.


Wrong.

The diaspora can face many problems (illegal status, low paid jobs, lack of passport, etc) that might prevent a percentage of them from going back home a few times per year, but the country being dangerous is not one of those. They are used to it. So you are not going to visit your elderly parents, grandparents, etc, just because you are scared of muggers? I don't think so.

Also, remember flights go in both directions. You will find that flights leaving Venezuela are very full, and most people leave with a return ticket even if they know they are not going to use the return portion.
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:36 pm

jmmadrid wrote:

It could be that Venezuela is offering them 5th freedom rights which would help fill those planes CCS-XXX-CCS. For example, there are currently no nonstop flights between CCS and SCL- a favourite destination for the venezuelan diaspora-. Passengers between these cities need to fly COPA via PTY and pay a hefty bill. This could be a business growth opportunity for TK.



Unless it has changed recently, Estelar flies once a week to SCL and twice/week to EZE with that HiFly 340. The same plane that goes to Madrid too.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:49 pm

dcajet wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:

It could be that Venezuela is offering them 5th freedom rights which would help fill those planes CCS-XXX-CCS. For example, there are currently no nonstop flights between CCS and SCL- a favourite destination for the venezuelan diaspora-. Passengers between these cities need to fly COPA via PTY and pay a hefty bill. This could be a business growth opportunity for TK.



Unless it has changed recently, Estelar flies once a week to SCL and twice/week to EZE with that HiFly 340. The same plane that goes to Madrid too.


I believe that chilean authorities denied permission and the route is not operating. Not sure if they sorted that out. Anyway, ESTELAR would be no competition for TK. Day and night in terms of onboard service, reliability, etc.
 
dcajet
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:47 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
dcajet wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:

It could be that Venezuela is offering them 5th freedom rights which would help fill those planes CCS-XXX-CCS. For example, there are currently no nonstop flights between CCS and SCL- a favourite destination for the venezuelan diaspora-. Passengers between these cities need to fly COPA via PTY and pay a hefty bill. This could be a business growth opportunity for TK.



Unless it has changed recently, Estelar flies once a week to SCL and twice/week to EZE with that HiFly 340. The same plane that goes to Madrid too.


I believe that chilean authorities denied permission and the route is not operating. Not sure if they sorted that out. Anyway, ESTELAR would be no competition for TK. Day and night in terms9of onboard service, reliability, etc.


ES8601 CCS 19:20 SCL 01:55+1 2
ES8600 SCL 03:25 CCS 09:50 3

Above is the schedule, AFAIK it is operating, they also fly to LIM 1x w, to EZE 2x w and to MAD 3x w. I don't recall them having their permit denied by Chile, perhaps you are thinking of the Haitian airline?

Of course no Venezuelan airline today can compete with pretty much anything. But until I read something with TK's letterhead on it I think this is nothing but vape coming from Maduro.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:14 pm

dcajet wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Unless it has changed recently, Estelar flies once a week to SCL and twice/week to EZE with that HiFly 340. The same plane that goes to Madrid too.


I believe that chilean authorities denied permission and the route is not operating. Not sure if they sorted that out. Anyway, ESTELAR would be no competition for TK. Day and night in terms9of onboard service, reliability, etc.


ES8601 CCS 19:20 SCL 01:55+1 2
ES8600 SCL 03:25 CCS 09:50 3

Above is the schedule, AFAIK it is operating, they also fly to LIM 1x w, to EZE 2x w and to MAD 3x w. I don't recall them having their permit denied by Chile, perhaps you are thinking of the Haitian airline?

Of course no Venezuelan airline today can compete with pretty much anything. But until I read something with TK's letterhead on it I think this is nothing but vape coming from Maduro.


It seems that the flight is operated with a 737 with a stop in Lima.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:16 pm

Even if there's an opportunity for TK to make money in CCS as there's a demand and CCS does have a prime location for many South America - Europe flights routes, one should be very sceptical about running an smooth operation at CCS right now.
As for TK in CCS, IMHO, TK might be better off flying to CCS in some sort of a IST-PUJ-CCS-IST, IST-CUR-CCS-IST or IST-CCS-POS-IST routing.
And if HAV can's sustain TK IST alone, perhaps IST-HAV-MBJ-IST or IST-HAV-CUN-IST might do.
If TK wants to venture to LIM and SCL, the triangle routing may not work there. Best could be as tag-on from some major airport in Brazil, like BSB, CNF or SSA.
Heck, if TK is thinking so much out of the box in South America, TK should also check VVI.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
AF086
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:24 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Even if there's an opportunity for TK to make money in CCS as there's a demand and CCS does have a prime location for many South America - Europe flights routes, one should be very sceptical about running an smooth operation at CCS right now.
As for TK in CCS, IMHO, TK might be better off flying to CCS in some sort of a IST-PUJ-CCS-IST, IST-CUR-CCS-IST or IST-CCS-POS-IST routing.
And if HAV can's sustain TK IST alone, perhaps IST-HAV-MBJ-IST or IST-HAV-CUN-IST might do.
If TK wants to venture to LIM and SCL, the triangle routing may not work there. Best could be as tag-on from some major airport in Brazil, like BSB, CNF or SSA.
Heck, if TK is thinking so much out of the box in South America, TK should also check VVI.


GIG and SCL are major gaps for TK in South America. Perhaps they could fly IST-GIG-SCL at some point.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
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FCOTSTW
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:08 pm

What is the rationale behind that?
Venezuelan economy is in shambles, public safety is at a minimum and they want to open a base there?
Sounds more political than economical.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:37 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
What is the rationale behind that?
Venezuelan economy is in shambles, public safety is at a minimum and they want to open a base there?
Sounds more political than economical.

We all agreed after a few posts that this was just politics and it's not going to happen, but we decided to leave politics aside for a while and discuss/fantasize a bit with the idea.
 
rubiohiguey
Posts: 28
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Re: Turkish to open base in CCS

Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:06 pm

I'll belive it when I see it. Few years back Turkish wanted to set up base in SDQ in Dominican Republic to do exactly the same thing, Caribbean and South America flying, and they would have gotten all fifth freedom out of there they might ever want ... Don't see this deal with CCS happening...

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