mffoda
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:49 pm

At the bottom of the press release they have this: "2018 list price A330neo: US$259.9m".

That's the list price for the A338.

Seems that they might all be A338's.
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Arion640
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:52 pm

seahawk wrote:
Good news for the A330 and it sounds like it could include A338s.


Why does everyone seem to think it includes A338’s?
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:59 pm

Flying-Tiger wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Airbus ix expecting 500 commitments for the show

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f193883154


Based on the daily summaries plus today´s order (MoU) for 6 A330neo I´m at 364 "order announcements" in one way or the other. Looks like there is still something big to be expected.

I think they count the Vistara order as 50, also including the leases, that way it does top the 400.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:05 pm

Really thought easy we’re going to announce additional orders at this show since they were bringing in the a321 with ceo on
 
mffoda
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:15 pm

harder than woodpecker lips...
 
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TOGA10
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:31 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Really thought easy we’re going to announce additional orders at this show since they were bringing in the a321 with ceo on

I thought the same, no news then?
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f4f3a
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:48 pm

On news I googled decision and announce at a later date . Prob more 321 as in business news it talks about reduced costs with it at slot constrained airports . Personally think that there is still room for 150 seat market for some of there bases routes that would be better served by a combined order with addition of a220 320 321 . As said before unless airbus offer a great deal it won’t happen. Also if recession and cut in demand happenes these bigger a/c a risk as a half empty 321 is going to cost more than a full 220 to fly
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:49 pm

 
WIederling
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:29 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Pure sophistry.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of "sophist" :-)
Hint: no connection to "in your face" and "with a hammer".
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Stitch
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:32 pm

WIederling wrote:
Over many years UFO orders were fringe. Then Boeing started to really boost that segment of UFO announcement. Afaics with an eye towards having a second chance to announce these again when they grew a customer name.


You mean like Airbus did this week with Sichuan Airlines A350 order (which they first announced as a UFO)? :sarcastic:

Heck, the largest UFO order for this airshow was for 80 Airbus A320neo and now they're announcing UFO MoUs for A330s.

Boeing, on the other hand, has yet to announce any UFO orders or MoUs this show (though they have identified some previous UFO orders).
 
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reidar76
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:32 pm

Arion640 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Good news for the A330 and it sounds like it could include A338s.


Why does everyone seem to think it includes A338’s?


Because of the Airbus press release: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

Notice that Airbus at the end of the press release informs us about the value of the commitment. The commitment is for six A330neo at US$259.9m each at current price list.

Then, looking at the current price list we can see that the A330-800 costs US$259.9m, while the A330-900 costs US$317.4m. Therefore it is likely that the order is for six A330-800. Maybe it is the six A330-800s that Hawaiian canceled earlier this year? I don't know if production of these frames had already started.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... t-all_ml_0
Last edited by reidar76 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:01 pm

reidar76 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Good news for the A330 and it sounds like it could include A338s.


Why does everyone seem to think it includes A338’s?


Because of the Airbus press release: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

Notice that Airbus at the end of the press release informs us about the value of the commitment. The commitment is for six A330neo at US$259.9m each at current price list.

Then, looking at the current price list we can see that the A330-800 costs US$259.9m, while the A330-900 costs US$317.4m. Therefore it is likely that the order is for six A330-800. Maybe it is the six A330-800s that Hawaiian canceled earlier this year? I don't know if production of these frames had already started.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... t-all_ml_0
That makes sense, but if it were A338's, wouldn't Airbus want to shout it from the rooftops rather than cryptically including it via list price that most people will never pay attention to?
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Stitch
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:05 pm

Stitch wrote:
Boeing, on the other hand, has yet to announce any UFO orders or MoUs this show (though they have identified some previous UFO orders).


And of course they promptly announce four UFOs for a combined total of 93 MAX just after I can no longer edit this message. :rotfl:

So both OEMs are guilty of this tactic. :devil:
 
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Polot
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:09 pm

To be the honest I get the impression that the A330neo MOU is still in the rather early stages and the customer hasn’t fully committed to a variant yet (MOU probably has tentative pricing for both models included). Airbus is just giving the A338 list price because it is the starting price and thus most conservative when talking about order value.

The cynic inside me believes that this MOU was announced this early more so Airbus had a surefire A330neo announcement at the show. So far Air Asia and Indigo have been no shows (and Airbus doesn’t want a repeat performance of Dubai, where an order gets hyped up and then Airbus gets caught with its pants on the ground because there was a last minute snag in the deal), as is the identity of the UFO order placed last month.
 
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:38 pm

MrBren wrote:

And these are -800s!
 
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Polot
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:45 pm

Let’s hope Uganda Airlines actually takes delivery of them and sticks around. I’m not super optimistic (note they haven’t started ops yet, and are planning a fleet of 4 CRJ900s...and 2 A338s).
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:51 pm

MrBren wrote:


MrBren wrote:


I realize this is a nitpick, and the actual text of the press release is accurate, but it bothers me that the Airbus press releases for what are in actuality memoranda of understanding claim that they are "orders" in their titles. It feels either sloppy or intentionally misleading given that their primary competitor will use verbiage like "signs commitment for" instead.
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:54 pm

MrBren wrote:
Just saw this in the PR link:
Uganda Airlines, the national carrier of Uganda, has signed a memorandum of understanding for two A330-800neo, the new version of the best-selling A330 widebody airliner, featuring new wings new Rolls-Royce’s latest-generation Trent 7000 engines, new systems and a new Airspace cabin interior.

The wings aren't new, right? Is there some sort of new wingtip treatment?
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:06 pm

Yes I am also quite optimistic that these 6 UFO A330neos are for Nigeria Air as they must have been offered a really sweet deal for the aircraft. Considering that elections in Nigeria are in Feb 2019, the existing government probably wants to sign up whatever is necessary for the new national carrier before a new govt gets elected and ruins the plans.
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:09 pm

MrBren wrote:


Lets see if these get taken up. Sadly most A330neo orders hang in the balance i.e iran air order.
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:10 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
MrBren wrote:
Just saw this in the PR link:
Uganda Airlines, the national carrier of Uganda, has signed a memorandum of understanding for two A330-800neo, the new version of the best-selling A330 widebody airliner, featuring new wings new Rolls-Royce’s latest-generation Trent 7000 engines, new systems and a new Airspace cabin interior.

The wings aren't new, right? Is there some sort of new wingtip treatment?


New wingtips, different wing twist, new belly fairing.
 
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reidar76
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:18 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
MrBren wrote:
Just saw this in the PR link:
Uganda Airlines, the national carrier of Uganda, has signed a memorandum of understanding for two A330-800neo, the new version of the best-selling A330 widebody airliner, featuring new wings new Rolls-Royce’s latest-generation Trent 7000 engines, new systems and a new Airspace cabin interior.

The wings aren't new, right? Is there some sort of new wingtip treatment?


The wingspan has increased by 3.7 meters (approximately 12 feet), plus some other aerodynamic optimizations and adjusted wingtwist etc. I wouldn't call them "new", but the wings are definitively updated, modified and significantly changed.
 
junlinwong94
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:25 pm

Airbus has still a lot of talks going on with AirAsia, Indigo, LaudaMotion, Aeroflot, United etc etc.
But funny that Tony Fernandes aint gonna be in the FIA 2018 since he has been at the FIA for the 2016, 2014 edition, announcing orders too
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:27 pm

behramjee wrote:
Yes I am also quite optimistic that these 6 UFO A330neos are for Nigeria Air as they must have been offered a really sweet deal for the aircraft. Considering that elections in Nigeria are in Feb 2019, the existing government probably wants to sign up whatever is necessary for the new national carrier before a new govt gets elected and ruins the plans.


It's telling that the aircraft in their tweet were the A330neo and the 737MAX. Were I starting up a carrier and was looking for aircraft for the best price, those would be the two I'd be expecting.
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junlinwong94
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:35 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
It's telling that the aircraft in their tweet were the A330neo and the 737MAX. Were I starting up a carrier and was looking for aircraft for the best price, those would be the two I'd be expecting.


I imagine Nigeria Air chose the A330neo due to available slots since they're starting operations in early 2019 from what I've heard and also another post mentioned here is to quickly go with the plane before the new government comes in 2019 and messes with their plans on the new airline.
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:36 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Yes I am also quite optimistic that these 6 UFO A330neos are for Nigeria Air as they must have been offered a really sweet deal for the aircraft. Considering that elections in Nigeria are in Feb 2019, the existing government probably wants to sign up whatever is necessary for the new national carrier before a new govt gets elected and ruins the plans.


It's telling that the aircraft in their tweet were the A330neo and the 737MAX. Were I starting up a carrier and was looking for aircraft for the best price, those would be the two I'd be expecting.

I would make sure the new client make deposit first before the election comes around. The new government may nix the order if it is just a LoI or commitment or whatever you call it. lol

Starting a new airline with new aircraft may require huge financial commitment, wouldn't it be wiser to start with pre-loved aircraft? Since leasing a used A330 or B737NG is dirt cheap now.
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:38 pm

Well, not sure if this is too early to call for, a.net myth that "Airbus has loads of orders saved for airshows" can be finally put to rest. The new sales team, thus far, works so much differently, compared to JL team.
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:39 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Starting a new airline with new aircraft may require huge financial commitment, wouldn't it be wiser to start with pre-loved aircraft? Since leasing a used A330 or B737NG is dirt cheap now.


https://twitter.com/NigerAPC/status/1019563494486806530

^one of their presentation photos depicts an A330ceo in their livery so maybe they may indeed lease a couple of A330ceo before the arrival of their A330neo. But I heard that the A330ceo is in high demand rn so I'm wondering where they're gonna get them from
 
junlinwong94
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:40 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Well, not sure if this is too early to call for, a.net myth that "Airbus has loads of orders saved for airshows" can be finally put to rest. The new sales team, thus far, works so much differently, compared to JL team.


Pardon my stupid question but what is the difference?
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:44 pm

junlinwong94 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
It's telling that the aircraft in their tweet were the A330neo and the 737MAX. Were I starting up a carrier and was looking for aircraft for the best price, those would be the two I'd be expecting.


I imagine Nigeria Air chose the A330neo due to available slots since they're starting operations in early 2019 from what I've heard and also another post mentioned here is to quickly go with the plane before the new government comes in 2019 and messes with their plans on the new airline.

It’s probably a mix of both. Boeing is targeting the heavy hitters in their pricing battle to “kill” the A330. They won’t be aggressive towards customers like Nigeria Air (how many national airlines has Nigeria had now?) or Uganda Airlines. Boeing knows the A330 can’t survive on customers like that so they are not really going to waste their time targeting them with amazing 787 deals.
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:45 pm

junlinwong94 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Starting a new airline with new aircraft may require huge financial commitment, wouldn't it be wiser to start with pre-loved aircraft? Since leasing a used A330 or B737NG is dirt cheap now.


https://twitter.com/NigerAPC/status/1019563494486806530

^one of their presentation photos depicts an A330ceo in their livery so maybe they may indeed lease a couple of A330ceo before the arrival of their A330neo. But I heard that the A330ceo is in high demand rn so I'm wondering where they're gonna get them from

Thanks for the link. Well, they can plenty of options now since a lot of airlines are offloading A330ceo now: SQ, TP, EY, BR, MU just to name a few.
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:15 pm

Day 3 orders

Undisclosed customer: 6x A330neo (MoU)
Viva Aerobus: 25x A321neo (Firm) + (16x A321neo upconversions)
Uganda Airlines: 2x A330neo (MoU)
 
WIederling
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:22 pm

ScottB wrote:
I realize this is a nitpick, and the actual text of the press release is accurate, but it bothers me that the Airbus press releases for what are in actuality memoranda of understanding claim that they are "orders" in their titles.


Note how the announcements start differently:
uganda: has signed MOU
UFO cust.: .. has signed a commitment... The Memorandum of Understanding was signed ..

does the UFO wording indicate ... just have to finish paperwork ... or such ?
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:52 pm

Stitch wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Over many years UFO orders were fringe. Then Boeing started to really boost that segment of UFO announcement. Afaics with an eye towards having a second chance to announce these again when they grew a customer name.


You mean like Airbus did this week with Sichuan Airlines A350 order (which they first announced as a UFO)? :sarcastic:

Heck, the largest UFO order for this airshow was for 80 Airbus A320neo and now they're announcing UFO MoUs for A330s.

Boeing, on the other hand, has yet to announce any UFO orders or MoUs this show (though they have identified some previous UFO orders).

For clarity's sake:

UFO = unidentified firm order
MOU = memorandum of understanding

They are mutually exclusive terms. A UFO is a firm order. An MOU is just an agreement in principle, and is therefore not a firm order. You can have an unidentified MOU, but there's no such thing as a UFO MOU.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:54 pm

Memorandums of Understanding / Letters of Intent / Commitments all seem to be the same thing: a statement that an airline plans to place a firm order, but is not yet ready to do so (financing, ongoing negotiations for secondary or tertiary sections, final Board Approval, etc.). The difference seems to be in how much money (as a percentage of the contracted price) a customer needs to put down and allocation of delivery positions (commitments seem to have firmer / more defined slots).
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:54 pm

Stitch wrote:
Memorandums of Understanding / Letters of Intent / Commitments all seem to be the same thing: a statement that an airline plans to place a firm order, but is not yet ready to do so (financing, ongoing negotiations for secondary or tertiary sections, final Board Approval, etc.). The difference seems to be in how much money (as a percentage of the contracted price) a customer needs to put down and allocation of delivery positions (commitments seem to have firmer / more defined slots).


Stitch, to what extent do you think LoI, MoU etc implies that the airline has entered exclusive negotiations with the particular OEM?
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:12 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
Stitch, to what extent do you think LoI, MoU etc implies that the airline has entered exclusive negotiations with the particular OEM?


Once an airline has signed an MoU or LoI with an OEM, they have almost certainly decided on that OEM. They're quite detailed in terms of model(s), pricing, delivery positions and other things. The actual sales contract is much larger and more granular in it's detail, but the MoU/LoI is specific enough for both parties (OEM and customer) to know where they stand to go forward and firm the order when they are ready.
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:43 pm

aerolimani wrote:
For clarity's sake:

UFO = unidentified firm order
MOU = memorandum of understanding

They are mutually exclusive terms. A UFO is a firm order.


Sorry, but this isn't correct. :shakehead:

The term "UFO" is simply a.net shorthand for "Unidentified customer". Neither OEM uses the term "UFO", they say "Unidentified customer".

An unidentified customer can sign an LOI/MOU just as easily as they can place a firm order. All it means is that the customer doesn't currently want to be identified.

Stitch wrote:
Memorandums of Understanding / Letters of Intent / Commitments all seem to be the same thing: a statement that an airline plans to place a firm order, but is not yet ready to do so (financing, ongoing negotiations for secondary or tertiary sections, final Board Approval, etc.).


The terms "LOI" and "MOU" are pretty much interchangeable from the OEM's perspective and more likely the one used has a legal significance in the customer's country. In either case, the OEM typically says "Customer X has signed a commitment for blah blah blah...."

It's quite unusual that an LOI/MOU isn't eventually converted into a firm order.
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:27 pm

scbriml wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
For clarity's sake:

UFO = unidentified firm order
MOU = memorandum of understanding

They are mutually exclusive terms. A UFO is a firm order.


Sorry, but this isn't correct. :shakehead:

The term "UFO" is simply a.net shorthand for "Unidentified customer". Neither OEM uses the term "UFO", they say "Unidentified customer".

An unidentified customer can sign an LOI/MOU just as easily as they can place a firm order. All it means is that the customer doesn't currently want to be identified.

Stitch wrote:
Memorandums of Understanding / Letters of Intent / Commitments all seem to be the same thing: a statement that an airline plans to place a firm order, but is not yet ready to do so (financing, ongoing negotiations for secondary or tertiary sections, final Board Approval, etc.).


The terms "LOI" and "MOU" are pretty much interchangeable from the OEM's perspective and more likely the one used has a legal significance in the customer's country. In either case, the OEM typically says "Customer X has signed a commitment for blah blah blah...."

It's quite unusual that an LOI/MOU isn't eventually converted into a firm order.

LOI and MOU can even be negative. We won't buy Airbus, rather than we will buy Boeing. Frankly, they have as much binding value as Negative Pledges which were popular security instruments in the early 80's (and coming back into fashion again).

UFO's are an all embracing term covering anything from a possible option to an order, which in turn can be conditional (most 777X's) to unconditional (deliveries within the next 12 months).
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:54 pm

Stitch wrote:
Memorandums of Understanding / Letters of Intent / Commitments all seem to be the same thing: a statement that an airline plans to place a firm order, but is not yet ready to do so (financing, ongoing negotiations for secondary or tertiary sections, final Board Approval, etc.). The difference seems to be in how much money (as a percentage of the contracted price) a customer needs to put down and allocation of delivery positions (commitments seem to have firmer / more defined slots).


LOI is not binding while MOU can be

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answer ... anding.asp
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:15 pm

scbriml wrote:
The term "UFO" is simply a.net shorthand for "Unidentified customer".

I defer to your 15 years on here. But, I have seen this question asked on a.netbefore, and I've read the explanation I gave. I must say… on a site where people are often very obsessive about their acronyms (esp. ICAO vs IATA versions), why on earth would people use an acronym which bears no relationship to what it is intended to mean??? UFO is most commonly taken to mean Unidentified Flying Object. If by flying object, one is referring to an airline, then I suppose it might work. But, that seems like a stretch.

Sometimes, I think this site needs a glossary. NMA, MOM, NSA, etc.

PS: I miss the old mouseover text for the airport and airline codes. For example, it gets confusing when one person calls Westjet WS, and somebody else calls them WJ. This kind of thing happens way too often now.
 
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:18 pm

aerolimani wrote:
scbriml wrote:
The term "UFO" is simply a.net shorthand for "Unidentified customer".

I defer to your 15 years on here. But, I have seen this question asked on a.netbefore, and I've read the explanation I gave. I must say… on a site where people are often very obsessive about their acronyms (esp. ICAO vs IATA versions), why on earth would people use an acronym which bears no relationship to what it is intended to mean??? UFO is most commonly taken to mean Unidentified Flying Object. If by flying object, one is referring to an airline, then I suppose it might work. But, that seems like a stretch.


IMHO, it's purely an a.net thing. I can believe some really think it stands for "Unidentified Firm Order", but I'm very sure it only started being used as shorthand for an unknown customer. While things were much simpler a few years ago, we now even have unknown customers signing LOIs and MOUs.

Airbus's O&D spreadsheet lists such firm orders as "Undisclosed" while Boeing's order page lists them "Unidentified Customer" so the "U" works for both. Whether Airbus or Boeing, maybe it should stand for "Unidentified Flying Order"? :D
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Slash787
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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:20 pm

The undisclosed A350 and A330neo, could it be Indigo?
 
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Polot
Posts: 9481
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:36 pm

Slash787 wrote:
The undisclosed A350 and A330neo, could it be Indigo?

I doubt Indigo will go for a mixed wide body fleet, and I doubt the two orders are related as they were announced separately.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:23 pm

scbriml wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
scbriml wrote:
The term "UFO" is simply a.net shorthand for "Unidentified customer".

I defer to your 15 years on here. But, I have seen this question asked on a.netbefore, and I've read the explanation I gave. I must say… on a site where people are often very obsessive about their acronyms (esp. ICAO vs IATA versions), why on earth would people use an acronym which bears no relationship to what it is intended to mean??? UFO is most commonly taken to mean Unidentified Flying Object. If by flying object, one is referring to an airline, then I suppose it might work. But, that seems like a stretch.


IMHO, it's purely an a.net thing. I can believe some really think it stands for "Unidentified Firm Order", but I'm very sure it only started being used as shorthand for an unknown customer. While things were much simpler a few years ago, we now even have unknown customers signing LOIs and MOUs.

Airbus's O&D spreadsheet lists such firm orders as "Undisclosed" while Boeing's order page lists them "Unidentified Customer" so the "U" works for both. Whether Airbus or Boeing, maybe it should stand for "Unidentified Flying Order"? :D


It's just one of those things that seems like it should have deeper meaning...but really doesn't. UFO is an unidentified order and since UFO is a fun acronym, it gets used. Also, UFO is easier to type than unidentified customer order.
What the...?
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1784
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:06 pm

This is a good link to read up on MOU, UFO or whatever you call them.

https://in.reuters.com/article/britain- ... NKBN1K81FZ
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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aerolimani
Posts: 1215
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:44 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
scbriml wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
I defer to your 15 years on here. But, I have seen this question asked on a.netbefore, and I've read the explanation I gave. I must say… on a site where people are often very obsessive about their acronyms (esp. ICAO vs IATA versions), why on earth would people use an acronym which bears no relationship to what it is intended to mean??? UFO is most commonly taken to mean Unidentified Flying Object. If by flying object, one is referring to an airline, then I suppose it might work. But, that seems like a stretch.


IMHO, it's purely an a.net thing. I can believe some really think it stands for "Unidentified Firm Order", but I'm very sure it only started being used as shorthand for an unknown customer. While things were much simpler a few years ago, we now even have unknown customers signing LOIs and MOUs.

Airbus's O&D spreadsheet lists such firm orders as "Undisclosed" while Boeing's order page lists them "Unidentified Customer" so the "U" works for both. Whether Airbus or Boeing, maybe it should stand for "Unidentified Flying Order"? :D


It's just one of those things that seems like it should have deeper meaning...but really doesn't. UFO is an unidentified order and since UFO is a fun acronym, it gets used. Also, UFO is easier to type than unidentified customer order.

I'm happy to stand corrected.

There's things I miss from the old site, and there's things I like about the new site. For example, the new site's search function actually functions! I found this, which I believe may be the first use of UFO, from 18 years ago. And, of course, it's in a post questioning why Boeing has more unidentified orders than Airbus. :lol: From user magyar, sometime in 2000:

Why are there so many UFO-s (unidentified order)
in the Boeing order book? And why there is much
less or none in AI one?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36051&p=267419&hilit=UFO+order#p267419
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1350
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:19 am

Rumours saying that the UFO A350 order is from Air New Zealand.

Michael
 
kevin5345179
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:08 am

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:52 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Rumours saying that the UFO A350 order is from Air New Zealand.

Michael


any source will be great

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