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Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:57 am
by Geoff1947
StTim wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
IAG orders 2 more A330 for delivery in 2019



Are these in addition to the two LEVEL ordered recently - or the same order re publicized?


Official press release for the two booked last month !!

Geoff

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:59 am
by Momo1435
This is what the title of the press release tells us

"LEVEL adds two A330-200s to its fleet"

To be delivered in 2019

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:13 pm
by MrBren

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:19 pm
by Polot
MrBren wrote:

Aka Moxy for those who don’t click the links.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:22 pm
by zakuivcustom
qf789 wrote:
Airbus Press Release on Peach Aviation A321LR's

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... -asia.html


Not surprising, back when Peach stated that they're looking for "Longer range single-aisle plane", it was already speculated that it's 99% A321LRs. Surprised that they're only getting 2, though. Something like KIX-BKK would already used up a plane for the whole day.

MrBren wrote:


Just making the "Moxy" order official.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:22 pm
by autothrust
Great news for the CS Series/A220 program, hope more orders will follow.

The Airbus leadership is paying off.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:25 pm
by Samrnpage
MrBren wrote:


Is this a new order or just confirming an old commitment?

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:30 pm
by Polot
Samrnpage wrote:
MrBren wrote:


Is this a new order or just confirming an old commitment?

Announcing/signing the MOU (it is not a firm order yet) that was first known about a few weeks ago.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:30 pm
by juliuswong
Samrnpage wrote:
MrBren wrote:


Is this a new order or just confirming an old commitment?

When the news first broke, it was merely a rumour. Now it is confirmed they are making "commitment" to purchase 60 A220.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:46 pm
by BobMUC
juliuswong wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
MrBren wrote:


Is this a new order or just confirming an old commitment?

When the news first broke, it was merely a rumour. Now it is confirmed they are making "commitment" to purchase 30 A220.


I read it as a "commitment" for 60 A220 and not 30... based on a MoU.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:47 pm
by aerolimani
MrBren wrote:



David Neeleman: “The A220 will enable us to serve thinner routes in comfort without compromising cost, especially on longer-range missions."

It sounds like Moxy is going to want the expensive dongles. 8-)

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:52 pm
by gatibosgru
Nice month for the A220

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:01 pm
by Deepinsider
One bit of jargon I don't know is 'UFO'
In context here, I've guessed it to mean;
Unannounced firm order.

For me, this thread should surely only refer
to NEW orders. Otherwise it seem we are
talking 'fake news'.
Plane sales people are no doubt just like
Real estate or car dealers, very good at
showing things in a good light, but...

Only orders that did not exist before this show
are a meaningful Airbus order thread. Same
applies to the other big company as well.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:02 pm
by jbs2886
Deepinsider wrote:
One bit of jargon I don't know is 'UFO'
In context here, I've guessed it to mean;
Unannounced firm order.

For me, this thread should surely only refer
to NEW orders. Otherwise it seem we are
talking 'fake news'.
Plane sales people are no doubt just like
Real estate or car dealers, very good at
showing things in a good light, but...

Only orders that did not exist before this show
are a meaningful Airbus order thread. Same
applies to the other big company as well.


Airbus is announcing these as firm orders. Just not identifying the purchaser. This isn't "fake news". Geez.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:03 pm
by jeffrey0032j
frigatebird wrote:
Deeso wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
A Memorandum of Understanding from an undisclosed customer???? What kind of order is this, should this really be announced at an airshow? I'm disappointed, Airbus used to criticize Boeing heavily for this kind of announcement at an airshow (17x 747-8i for two Undisclosed Customers at PAS years ago) and rightly so.

Airbus or the fanboys? I don't recall statements from Airbus Officials critizising UFO orders but I might missed them.

It was John Leahy, not in an official Airbus statement, but saying to journalists how unimpressed he was with Boeing announcing UFO commitments for the 747-8 at the PAS 2011 airshow. Never mind, let's focus on some real orders now :smile:


Not sure whether he repeated it in 2011, but here is a report that quotes what he said in 2008.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/airb ... -air-show/

But the Air China deal, along with two others from Etihad Airways and Malaysia Airways, were already on Boeing’s books — attributed to unidentified buyers. Removing those from the tally, the Chicago-based plane-maker’s deals at the world’s biggest air show drop to just $5.6 billion.

Airbus on Thursday held a self-congratulatory press conference, with the Toulouse, France-based company’s chief salesman John Leahy saying the figures defied the “doom and gloom” that many industry watchers had expected to pervade this year’s air show given soaring oil prices and the global credit crisis.

“We think it ended up pretty well,” Leahy said, adding that Airbus viewed the practice of placing orders on the books before confirming buyers as “quite silly.”


So Airbus without Leahy decides to do what Leahy said Airbus didn't like.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:11 pm
by OA940
Deepinsider wrote:
One bit of jargon I don't know is 'UFO'
In context here, I've guessed it to mean;
Unannounced firm order.

For me, this thread should surely only refer
to NEW orders. Otherwise it seem we are
talking 'fake news'.
Plane sales people are no doubt just like
Real estate or car dealers, very good at
showing things in a good light, but...

Only orders that did not exist before this show
are a meaningful Airbus order thread. Same
applies to the other big company as well.


More like unidentified but yea pretty much same thing

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:15 pm
by Geoff1947
Momo1435 wrote:
This is what the title of the press release tells us

"LEVEL adds two A330-200s to its fleet"

To be delivered in 2019


Included as an order in the Airbus figures for the end of June, dated 21st June.

Reported here

http://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/o ... eries.html

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:21 pm
by Arion640
Bricktop wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
IAG orders 2 more A330 for delivery in 2019

Neos, presumably the A339?


They are -200’s like the rest.

I’m still waiting to find out what this big day for Air Asia is supposed to be.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:21 pm
by Momo1435
The UFO orders are the previously unidentified firm orders that are identified at the show. They are posted in this thread because Airbus (or Boeing for their orders) are announcing them here at the airshow. They are labeled UFO to make it clear that these are orders that were already on the orderbook.

Not posting them here would create even more confusion. People will only be asking why they aren't posted here, if they even got the chance because other people who are not aware of the status of the order will post it anyway. We also have to be aware that some of the orders were already announced in the press, without any formal confirmation by Airbus or Boeing. Then it looks like it's just rehashing old news to us, but for them it's a new announcement.

This just shows that's important to list the actual status of the order, and possibly also if available a bit of history of the order when the news is posted.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:14 pm
by qf789
Arion640 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
IAG orders 2 more A330 for delivery in 2019

Neos, presumably the A339?


They are -200’s like the rest.

I’m still waiting to find out what this big day for Air Asia is supposed to be.


You are going to be waiting a while, it seems an order at Farnborough is unlikely

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aira ... SKBN1K71V3

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:28 pm
by Momo1435
Well, with them we can only be certain that there will be no order until the show has ended. And even then there could be a late announcement. Until then we should just focus on the actual announcements.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:48 pm
by BlueSky1976
I'm sure they will announce on the final press/industry day of the show. If I remember correctly, Tony Fernandes did that already last few times...

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:59 pm
by lightsaber
qf789 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Neos, presumably the A339?


They are -200’s like the rest.

I’m still waiting to find out what this big day for Air Asia is supposed to be.


You are going to be waiting a while, it seems an order at Farnborough is unlikely

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aira ... SKBN1K71V3

That is not good news for Airbus and the A330NEO. The AirAsia order is holding the type hostage (unless someone comes in willing to buy far more than Delta).

It that isn't broadcasting "make me a better offer", I don't know what is.

Lightsaber

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:54 pm
by Momo1435
Day 2 orders

Undisclosed customer: 8x A350-900 (Firm)
Undisclosed customer: 25x A321neo + 75x A320neo (MoU)
IAG (Level): 2x A330-200 (already booked)
new U.S. airline start-up (David Neeleman) 60x A220-300 (MoU)
Peach Aviation; 2x A321neoLR (Conversion)

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:01 pm
by Leslieville
MrBren wrote:


That's great news and further validation of the A220 as an ideal aircraft for high profile, high demand areas of core operation like the US eastern seaboard and the major continental destinations where Jet Blue, and the future Moxy, have their core market. This is true, too, for Delta and its ATL core market. I am sure there is a widespread feeling of vindication in Bombardier HQ as the orders roll in for their baby.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:08 pm
by ikramerica
Deepinsider wrote:
One bit of jargon I don't know is 'UFO'
In context here, I've guessed it to mean;
Unannounced firm order.

For me, this thread should surely only refer
to NEW orders. Otherwise it seem we are
talking 'fake news'.
Plane sales people are no doubt just like
Real estate or car dealers, very good at
showing things in a good light, but...

Only orders that did not exist before this show
are a meaningful Airbus order thread. Same
applies to the other big company as well.

We have been doing this for decades. These threads are for announcements from the manufacturer. Whether they are orders, commitments, clarifications, etc. is up to the manufacturer.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:53 pm
by lightsaber
Momo1435 wrote:
Day 2 orders

Undisclosed customer: 8x A350-900 (Firm)
Undisclosed customer: 25x A321neo + 75x A320neo (MoU)
IAG (Level): 2x A330-200 (already booked)
new U.S. airline start-up (David Neeleman) 60x A220-300 (MoU)
Peach Aviation; 2x A321neoLR (Conversion)

I appreciate the summaries. I hope we have a complete summary at the end.
In particular for the A220.

Lightsaber

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:16 pm
by Bricktop
ikolkyo wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
IAG orders 2 more A330 for delivery in 2019

Neos, presumably the A339?


Most definitely ceo aircraft.

Someone should have clicked the link provided. :blush:

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:59 pm
by crimsonchin
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:04 pm
by Arion640
Be interesting to see who these 8 A359’s belong too!

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:08 pm
by ikolkyo
crimsonchin wrote:
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.


? It’s a tactic used by everyone.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:11 pm
by Polot
ikolkyo wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.


? It’s a tactic used by everyone.

Everyone does it, but this year Airbus does seem heavier on announcing UFOs at the air show than they have been in years past. But there is a new head of sales.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:47 pm
by crimsonchin
ikolkyo wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.


? It’s a tactic used by everyone.


Yes, hence the word "mostly"

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:01 pm
by Stitch
crimsonchin wrote:
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.


I should be surprised that people think following the law is a "rubbish tactic", but then this is a.net... :sarcastic:

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:26 pm
by ikolkyo
crimsonchin wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.


? It’s a tactic used by everyone.


Yes, hence the word "mostly"


You basically said it was a Boeing tactic, every OEM does it. Most of the time it's by law.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:15 am
by downdata
UFO = China 99% of the time...

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:00 am
by Pcoder
An unidentified order does not necessarily mean a Chinese airline, but as most airlines are public listed companies, it is very difficult for these businesses to satisfy their reporting requirements to their stockholders. It does not mean that it can't be done, but if the order is very large, then it will have to be reported.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:58 am
by WIederling
ikolkyo wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.


? It’s a tactic used by everyone.


volume is the differentiator.

Over many years UFO orders were fringe.

Then Boeing started to really boost that segment of UFO announcement.
Afaics with an eye towards having a second chance to announce these again
when they grew a customer name. With the UFO to Named Order path hidden
in the fine print.
You have to also see Boeing as presented by the press in that context.

"? It’s a tactic used by everyone" is a little white lie imho.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:45 am
by frigatebird
Stitch wrote:
crimsonchin wrote:
Is this a post-Leahy thing or does Airbus seem to be booking more "UFO" orders lately? Thought it was mostly a rubbish Boeing tactic.


I should be surprised that people think following the law is a "rubbish tactic", but then this is a.net... :sarcastic:

Publishing firm orders for undisclosed customers is nothing wrong. Press releases at an airshow for these, I don't know about that.
Announcing a MoU or LoI from an undisclosed customer is a lot of hot air and has no place at an airshow IMO, but:

7BOEING7 wrote:
It's all PR BS anyway on both sides. It's the $$$ in the bank that counts.

Exactly. :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:57 am
by MrBren

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:04 am
by Flying-Tiger
MrBren wrote:


That one will be interesting to see how it will be booked - the wording points towards a mix of -800/900s, not only -900s.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:07 am
by seahawk
Good news for the A330 and it sounds like it could include A338s.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:20 am
by Richard28
Great news for the A330 - I wonder if this could be MEA?

it roughly fits with the type, number on order and timing.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:29 am
by boerje
Flying-Tiger wrote:
MrBren wrote:


That one will be interesting to see how it will be booked - the wording points towards a mix of -800/900s, not only -900s.


On that link there is a line "2018 list price A330neo: US$259.9m". If we compare that price to Airbus Commercial Aircraft-list prices 2018 at https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/01/airbus-2018-price-list-press-release.html we will find that the price is for A330-800.

This got me thinking... could these 6 perhaps be those 6 Hawaiian Airlines cancelled?

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:29 am
by Momo1435
MrBren wrote:

It's another unidentified MoU.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:42 am
by Geoff1947
Flying-Tiger wrote:
MrBren wrote:


That one will be interesting to see how it will be booked - the wording points towards a mix of -800/900s, not only -900s.


Just an MoU at this stage so won’t go in the orderbook yet.

Geoff

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:51 am
by Bricktop
WIederling wrote:
volume is the differentiator.

Over many years UFO orders were fringe.

Then Boeing started to really boost that segment of UFO announcement.
Afaics with an eye towards having a second chance to announce these again
when they grew a customer name. With the UFO to Named Order path hidden
in the fine print.
You have to also see Boeing as presented by the press in that context.

"? It’s a tactic used by everyone" is a little white lie imho.

Pure sophistry.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:03 am
by qf789
Airbus ix expecting 500 commitments for the show

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f193883154

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:10 am
by LewisNEO
MrBren wrote:


That is great news, hopefully a push the this program needs.

Re: Farnborough Air Show 2018 - Airbus Order Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:43 pm
by Flying-Tiger
qf789 wrote:
Airbus ix expecting 500 commitments for the show

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... f193883154


Based on the daily summaries plus today´s order (MoU) for 6 A330neo I´m at 364 "order announcements" in one way or the other. Looks like there is still something big to be expected.