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lightsaber
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:34 pm

Blerg wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Yet it's been more successful than B736 or the A318.

Except that the 736 and the A318 are only one variant each of much larger and much more successful offerings (respectively 737NG's and A320 Family).
The SSJ100 is the sole variant of the SSJ Family as of now; so, compare is to the whole 737NG or A320 Families, not the 736 or A318.


Except that Boeing and Airbus have been on the market for decades and decades. How long has it been since the SSJ model was launched?

Apris2011.

The issue is 26 are already un-registered.
https://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-ssj.htm

I can see a single digits, or up to 4% of a fleet at 8 years, not double digits and double digit percentages sitting idle.

This is a problem owned by Sukhoi. Too many we're down for issues too long.

Both Western opperators are retreating from the type. : scratchchin:

The E2-190 will cost less per flight, fly more per day, have better dispatch reliability, and carry more people for further. Sukhoi missed their market window.

Heck, Azul and JetBlue (or their leasors) have a bunch of used E-190/195 coming available soon. ;). It is sad when a known expensive to maintain and fuel jet is a far better option.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:17 pm

Blerg wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Except that Boeing and Airbus have been on the market for decades and decades. How long has it been since the SSJ model was launched?

And the SSJ is a product of Sukhoi, which has been existing for decades and decades.

Now, the 737NG & 737MAX has sold basically 12,075 copies in 25 years from launch of the 737NG (1993 to January 2019); average of 483 sold per year.
The A320 Family (let's include the NEO's) has sold basically 14,500 copies in 35 years from launch of the A320 (March 1984 to January 2019); average of 420 sold per year.
The SSJ has sold 301 copies in 14 years from launch (March 2004 to January 2019); average of 22 sold per year.

Still want to compare the SSJ to the 737 and A320???


Sukhoi has been around for a while but how many passenger aircraft have they actually developed since they were set up? They are new in this game.
Furthermore, both NG and MAX versions are a continuation of a highly successful aircraft launched in 1967. We need to give SSJ more time to see if they manage to overcome their supply issues on the international markets.

OK, forget about the 737 then.

Facts remain about the A320 since I've counted all order since it's inception. Let's switch to deliveries if you prefer:
- deliveries for the A320 for the first 14 years since it was offered to the market (1984 to 1998): 920 aircraft.
- deliveries for the SSJ100 for the first 14 years since it was offered to the market (2004 to today): 148 aircraft.
Numbers speak for themselves.

Again, the SSJ is plagued primarily by a lack of aftermarket support. SJI wants to keep the aftermarket under their own control, instead of letting some of the well-established OEM's (at least the ones from Europe or the Americas) to use their existing support network; this has played against the SSJ.

I find the SSJ to be a nifty little airplane; I'd love to see them succeed. Unfortunately, reality is a bitch...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:24 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Blerg wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
And the SSJ is a product of Sukhoi, which has been existing for decades and decades.

Now, the 737NG & 737MAX has sold basically 12,075 copies in 25 years from launch of the 737NG (1993 to January 2019); average of 483 sold per year.
The A320 Family (let's include the NEO's) has sold basically 14,500 copies in 35 years from launch of the A320 (March 1984 to January 2019); average of 420 sold per year.
The SSJ has sold 301 copies in 14 years from launch (March 2004 to January 2019); average of 22 sold per year.

Still want to compare the SSJ to the 737 and A320???


Sukhoi has been around for a while but how many passenger aircraft have they actually developed since they were set up? They are new in this game.
Furthermore, both NG and MAX versions are a continuation of a highly successful aircraft launched in 1967. We need to give SSJ more time to see if they manage to overcome their supply issues on the international markets.

OK, forget about the 737 then.

Facts remain about the A320 since I've counted all order since it's inception. Let's switch to deliveries if you prefer:
- deliveries for the A320 for the first 14 years since it was offered to the market (1984 to 1998): 920 aircraft.
- deliveries for the SSJ100 for the first 14 years since it was offered to the market (2004 to today): 148 aircraft.
Numbers speak for themselves.

Again, the SSJ is plagued primarily by a lack of aftermarket support. SJI wants to keep the aftermarket under their own control, instead of letting some of the well-established OEM's (at least the ones from Europe or the Americas) to use their existing support network; this has played against the SSJ.

I find the SSJ to be a nifty little airplane; I'd love to see them succeed. Unfortunately, reality is a bitch...

It is not all bad:. ARJ-21, 10 delivered, offered March 2002. Almost 17 years... More than the sales life of an Airframe...

Sales life is extended by PIPs (A320 had 2 engine, Sharklets, weight reductions, life extension, avionics 1, then NEO with a dramatic improvement in avionics).

NEO, MAX, E2, and A220 all have predictive maintenance to cut costs too.


Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
ewt340
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:34 am

Blerg wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
MaksFly wrote:
The amount of pure hatred and politics here is disgusting, nevermind factually wrong.


To be fair, SSJ hasn't been as successful as other aircraft on the market. Factually speaking, majority of SSJ100's customers are Russians. 15 orders from CityJet, and 30 from InterJet and 3 from Royal Thai Government are the only non-russians operator.

48 out of the 295 orders come from foreigner Airlines or Government, while the other 247 come from within Russia.


Yet it's been more successful than B736 or the A318.


Of course it is, B736 and A318 doesn't get shoved down airlines throat by a government.
 
Blerg
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:55 pm

ewt340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

To be fair, SSJ hasn't been as successful as other aircraft on the market. Factually speaking, majority of SSJ100's customers are Russians. 15 orders from CityJet, and 30 from InterJet and 3 from Royal Thai Government are the only non-russians operator.

48 out of the 295 orders come from foreigner Airlines or Government, while the other 247 come from within Russia.


Yet it's been more successful than B736 or the A318.


Of course it is, B736 and A318 doesn't get shoved down airlines throat by a government.


Say that to Tarom.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:38 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Blerg wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Again, the SSJ is plagued primarily by a lack of aftermarket support. SJI wants to keep the aftermarket under their own control, instead of letting some of the well-established OEM's (at least the ones from Europe or the Americas) to use their existing support network; this has played against the SSJ.

I find the SSJ to be a nifty little airplane; I'd love to see them succeed. Unfortunately, reality is a bitch...


The plane seems solid. Support seems to be the issue, all planes need maintenance and parts, they just didn't make that easy enough.
 
ewt340
Posts: 379
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:24 am

Blerg wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Yet it's been more successful than B736 or the A318.


Of course it is, B736 and A318 doesn't get shoved down airlines throat by a government.


Say that to Tarom.


I didn't know Romanian Government build A318 at all. You learn something new everyday.
 
Blerg
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:22 am

ewt340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

Of course it is, B736 and A318 doesn't get shoved down airlines throat by a government.


Say that to Tarom.


I didn't know Romanian Government build A318 at all. You learn something new everyday.


Read your previous comment, it says 'get shoved down airlines throat by a government' you never mentioned the government also making the aircraft. Furthermore, getting the A318 was a political move by Bucharest to please the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if Airbus used its influence in Brussels to get them to order these in order to boost the program.
 
P1aneMad
Posts: 204
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:59 am

Yes, an order by a carrier like RO was the boost that this program needed...
 
ewt340
Posts: 379
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:49 am

Blerg wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Say that to Tarom.


I didn't know Romanian Government build A318 at all. You learn something new everyday.


Read your previous comment, it says 'get shoved down airlines throat by a government' you never mentioned the government also making the aircraft. Furthermore, getting the A318 was a political move by Bucharest to please the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if Airbus used its influence in Brussels to get them to order these in order to boost the program.


How is that the same situation as Russian Government built an aircraft and forcing airlines within their own country to order it?

Since Romania government doesn't get any profits out of ordering A318.
 
Blerg
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 am

ewt340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

I didn't know Romanian Government build A318 at all. You learn something new everyday.


Read your previous comment, it says 'get shoved down airlines throat by a government' you never mentioned the government also making the aircraft. Furthermore, getting the A318 was a political move by Bucharest to please the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if Airbus used its influence in Brussels to get them to order these in order to boost the program.


How is that the same situation as Russian Government built an aircraft and forcing airlines within their own country to order it?

Since Romania government doesn't get any profits out of ordering A318.


The point is that all struggling programs try to get more sales by using their political contacts. What do you mean the Romanian government didn't get any profits? It got political points which they hoped would speed up their membership at the EU. Same reason why JU ordered the A319 in 1998 or why CY got the A332 instead of the B763.
 
ewt340
Posts: 379
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:26 am

Blerg wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Read your previous comment, it says 'get shoved down airlines throat by a government' you never mentioned the government also making the aircraft. Furthermore, getting the A318 was a political move by Bucharest to please the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if Airbus used its influence in Brussels to get them to order these in order to boost the program.


How is that the same situation as Russian Government built an aircraft and forcing airlines within their own country to order it?

Since Romania government doesn't get any profits out of ordering A318.


The point is that all struggling programs try to get more sales by using their political contacts. What do you mean the Romanian government didn't get any profits? It got political points which they hoped would speed up their membership at the EU. Same reason why JU ordered the A319 in 1998 or why CY got the A332 instead of the B763.


So you are saying that the EU forced the Romania government to buy 4 A318 alongside 3 B737-800 And 2 ATR72-500 in 2006. And some B737-700 in early 2000s.

It's nice how EU let Boeing to take majority of orders from Tarom.

They love the EU soo much they decided to order B737MAX8 in 2018.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Brussels Airlines to ditch Sukhoi Superjets?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:52 am

Thread went off topic and will be locked.

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