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LAXintl
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AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:22 pm

Allegedly mechanics and ramp employees are impacting operational performance angered by slow pace of negotiations. Issues seem worst at Chicago and Dallas. For the first 4-months of 2018, AA has the lowest on-time performance among the US3.

Unions deny any connection to labor talks as such slow downs are illegal under the RLA.

American Airlines Encounters Labor Slowdowns Due to Slow Pace Of Contract Talks
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 02db4b3cdb

=
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Chemist
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:49 pm

A few years ago we were leaving Aruba on AA and we must have crawled for 30 minutes to taxi to the runway. This was during another contract slowdown. There was no other takeoff traffic at the airport.

The pilots were applying brakes to keep the plane extra slow as the idle thrust threatened to achieve decent taxi speeds.
 
RJNUT
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:34 pm

Chemist wrote:
A few years ago we were leaving Aruba on AA and we must have crawled for 30 minutes to taxi to the runway. This was during another contract slowdown. There was no other takeoff traffic at the airport.

The pilots were applying brakes to keep the plane extra slow as the idle thrust threatened to achieve decent taxi speeds.

I had the very same thing happen on an old NW Airbus in TVC. You could not taxi any slower and still call it "taxiing"
 
as739x
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:08 am

Chemist wrote:
A few years ago we were leaving Aruba on AA and we must have crawled for 30 minutes to taxi to the runway. This was during another contract slowdown. There was no other takeoff traffic at the airport.

The pilots were applying brakes to keep the plane extra slow as the idle thrust threatened to achieve decent taxi speeds.


In all fairness, as a pilot flying into ORD on a regular bases, AA is already the slowest pilots taxing around :)
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
usairways787
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:43 am

Typical blame labor to cover the blame of bad decisions. Beefed up flight schedule, no additional man power, cutting areas of the operation which are vital, and then expecting us to work miracles while they continue to find ways to send more people to the streets.
 
OB1504
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:24 pm

This happens every time there are contract talks. Slowdowns are illegal but working to rule is not.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:45 pm

There is no job action.
 
ozark1
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:47 pm

Why would Ted Reed make this a story when he said "several dozen" flights were affected? That's nothing. I'd blame it more on the entire dysfunctional organization than on those particular unions.
 
flight152
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:49 pm

as739x wrote:
Chemist wrote:
A few years ago we were leaving Aruba on AA and we must have crawled for 30 minutes to taxi to the runway. This was during another contract slowdown. There was no other takeoff traffic at the airport.

The pilots were applying brakes to keep the plane extra slow as the idle thrust threatened to achieve decent taxi speeds.


In all fairness, as a pilot flying into ORD on a regular bases, AA is already the slowest pilots taxing around :)

This is absolutely true. No slower moving planes on the surface then American Airlines aircraft.
 
flyguy84
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:10 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Allegedly mechanics and ramp employees are impacting operational performance angered by slow pace of negotiations. Issues seem worst at Chicago and Dallas. For the first 4-months of 2018, AA has the lowest on-time performance among the US3.

Unions deny any connection to labor talks as such slow downs are illegal under the RLA.

American Airlines Encounters Labor Slowdowns Due to Slow Pace Of Contract Talks
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 02db4b3cdb

=

Despite what some perceive as “slowdowns” they still have better performance than WN.
SFO
 
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DL747400
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:43 pm

Yet another reason to avoid AA when there is a choice. 4 of my trips within the past 3 months have included AA mainline flights (no choice due to work). None of them were on-time.
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kiowa
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:07 pm

DL747400 wrote:
Yet another reason to avoid AA when there is a choice. 4 of my trips within the past 3 months have included AA mainline flights (no choice due to work). None of them were on-time.

And yet my experience has been better on AA than DAL. I consider AA a good airline and DAL an pretty good airline. We all have different opinions.
 
Chemist
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:28 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Allegedly mechanics and ramp employees are impacting operational performance angered by slow pace of negotiations. Issues seem worst at Chicago and Dallas. For the first 4-months of 2018, AA has the lowest on-time performance among the US3.

Unions deny any connection to labor talks as such slow downs are illegal under the RLA.

American Airlines Encounters Labor Slowdowns Due to Slow Pace Of Contract Talks
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 02db4b3cdb

=

Despite what some perceive as “slowdowns” they still have better performance than WN.


That depends upon how you measure performance.
 
OKCDCA
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:30 pm

AA ramp employees were already slow, this is nothing new... I’m a loyal AA flyer but their ramp employees could use some help. At DFW, ORD and DCA always seems like they’re never ready when the planes arrive. Can’t tell you how many times we’ve pulled up to the gate to wait on wing walkers to lollygag into position and then get directed into the gate. Then they lollygag to unload bags and lollygag to get them to the belt. Maybe part of their new contract should include some performance measures...
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
AA ramp employees were already slow, this is nothing new... I’m a loyal AA flyer but their ramp employees could use some help. At DFW, ORD and DCA always seems like they’re never ready when the planes arrive. Can’t tell you how many times we’ve pulled up to the gate to wait on wing walkers to lollygag into position and then get directed into the gate. Then they lollygag to unload bags and lollygag to get them to the belt. Maybe part of their new contract should include some performance measures...


Agreed, and it’s often night and day with the various Eagle ramps. I flew OO into ORD yesterday and was dreading the checked bag wait. The bag arrived at baggage claim 14 minutes after we blocked in.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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jsnww81
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:28 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
AA ramp employees were already slow, this is nothing new... I’m a loyal AA flyer but their ramp employees could use some help. At DFW, ORD and DCA always seems like they’re never ready when the planes arrive. Can’t tell you how many times we’ve pulled up to the gate to wait on wing walkers to lollygag into position and then get directed into the gate. Then they lollygag to unload bags and lollygag to get them to the belt. Maybe part of their new contract should include some performance measures...


Amen. Baggage delivery for passengers terminating at AA hubs is agonizingly slow. I understand that the first priority is getting connecting bags offloaded and on to their next flights, but there's no reason passengers should have to stand around a carousel for over an hour waiting for luggage. That's routine at ORD and LAX and occasionally even at DFW.

I have seen noticeable improvement in gate agents being ready on the jetway when flights pull in, however. 4-5 years ago it was VERY common to have to wait 10-15 minutes for an agent to leave the breakroom and come connect the jetbridge. Now it seems like the agent is almost always waiting in the driver cab when the plane pulls in, and deplaning begins almost immediately. Was there some sort of campaign around this? It used to be absolutely terrible.
 
usairways787
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:23 pm

It's slow because we don't have the people. We're under staffed, and don't have tools to do our job. We want to do our job but at every turn the company literally makes it impossible.
 
kiowa
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:12 pm

usairways787 wrote:
It's slow because we don't have the people. We're under staffed, and don't have tools to do our job. We want to do our job but at every turn the company literally makes it impossible.


I was told that at Frontier, in ORD this month, an entire staff walked off the job leaving noone to handle the people, aircraft or bags. That makes it even more impossible to do the job.
 
usairways787
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:25 pm

kiowa wrote:
usairways787 wrote:
It's slow because we don't have the people. We're under staffed, and don't have tools to do our job. We want to do our job but at every turn the company literally makes it impossible.


I was told that at Frontier, in ORD this month, an entire staff walked off the job leaving noone to handle the people, aircraft or bags. That makes it even more impossible to do the job.


It does make it impossible, but they're cutting back in support positions, reducing man power, the flight schedule has beefed up with shorter turn times. DFW is too big to run this short and what you're seeing is what we've been telling management all along, this does not work. Three drivers are transferring bags, while three people are uploading, two in the belly, one on the belt. Combine that with freight, and mail, with back to back turns it's only going slow down. It doesn't help when planes are arriving 20-30 minutes early, while the other plane is still on the gate, then you have a gate change, it's screwing everything up, but we're told to just keep going. 140 Degrees on average out here, with little to no breaks. It's doomed, and nobody wants to fix it.
 
crj900lr
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:14 am

usairways787 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
usairways787 wrote:
It's slow because we don't have the people. We're under staffed, and don't have tools to do our job. We want to do our job but at every turn the company literally makes it impossible.


I was told that at Frontier, in ORD this month, an entire staff walked off the job leaving noone to handle the people, aircraft or bags. That makes it even more impossible to do the job.


It does make it impossible, but they're cutting back in support positions, reducing man power, the flight schedule has beefed up with shorter turn times. DFW is too big to run this short and what you're seeing is what we've been telling management all along, this does not work. Three drivers are transferring bags, while three people are uploading, two in the belly, one on the belt. Combine that with freight, and mail, with back to back turns it's only going slow down. It doesn't help when planes are arriving 20-30 minutes early, while the other plane is still on the gate, then you have a gate change, it's screwing everything up, but we're told to just keep going. 140 Degrees on average out here, with little to no breaks. It's doomed, and nobody wants to fix it.



You are 100% correct. All we get is excuses and threats from above. It wouldn't take much but nobody wants to make an effort to improve. It's sad, really sad.
 
drdisque
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:57 am

A communicated effort to "work to rule" is indeed a illegal work action under the RLA. A workgroup can violate the RLA without an individual employee violating their CBA.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:15 am

Actually you are quite wrong.

I worked at US for 20 years, you can’t be disciplined nor is it against the law to work by the company’s rules, regulations, and procedures.
 
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janders
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:59 am

"Work to rule" has on multiple occasions been considered by courts as an illegal work action. Unions have been sued and in several cases have had to pay out quite significant fines for such acts.

The most recent case I recall was last summer when Spirit successfully sued its pilots union in federal court and won a restraining order for what court found to be “an unlawful job action”

Having worked at a company where similar has occurred, its not very hard to prove if such acts are taking place or not. There is ample historical data on delays, cancels, and other issues that the company has and if performance varies much around CBA talks, or by some specific work groups its pretty easy to associate that with a concerted work action by employees.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
OKCDCA
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 am

Definitely not illegal to work to rule but having worked as a Operations Manager for a Class 1 railroad and seen this action a few times, usually the easiest way to break it is start disciplining employees for not following the rules exactly as they are written. Pull a few people out of service in a short time span and eventually the smart employees will realize they don't want to face the opportunity of getting pulled out of service and get back to business as usual.
 
citationjet
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:09 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
I have seen noticeable improvement in gate agents being ready on the jetway when flights pull in, however. 4-5 years ago it was VERY common to have to wait 10-15 minutes for an agent to leave the breakroom and come connect the jetbridge. Now it seems like the agent is almost always waiting in the driver cab when the plane pulls in, and deplaning begins almost immediately. Was there some sort of campaign around this? It used to be absolutely terrible.


I was on an AA flight earlier this year, flying to DFW. Before we left our departure airport, AA.com app showed our flight arriving 20 minutes early and gave the arrival gate number in DFW. We arrived at our assigned gate in DFW exactly 20 minutes early, just as the AA app had predicted 3 hours earlier. However we still had to wait 15 minutes at the gate with the engines running while we waited for someone to show up and operate the jetbridge in AA's biggest hub. How is that me as a PASSENGER knows our flight's arrival time and gate three hours BEFORE we arrive, yet the AA employees either don't know or don't care about our early arrival. It is the little things like this that can easily be solved, but seems to be challenging for AA.
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txjim
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:18 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
AA ramp employees were already slow, this is nothing new... I’m a loyal AA flyer but their ramp employees could use some help. At DFW, ORD and DCA always seems like they’re never ready when the planes arrive. Can’t tell you how many times we’ve pulled up to the gate to wait on wing walkers to lollygag into position and then get directed into the gate. Then they lollygag to unload bags and lollygag to get them to the belt. Maybe part of their new contract should include some performance measures...

Here's a video of supervisors addressing the employees
https://youtu.be/cDaFcQJC4z8?t=51
 
Blockplus
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:45 pm

The illegalities of work to rule lie in the change to status quo. Just as the company cannot change work programs and incentives to punish during sec 6 negotiations, neither can the employees change the way they operate or work overtime during sec 6.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:02 pm

I’ve worked by rule numerous times and never got disciplined and they are not in Section 6.
 
airtran737
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:29 pm

citationjet wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
I have seen noticeable improvement in gate agents being ready on the jetway when flights pull in, however. 4-5 years ago it was VERY common to have to wait 10-15 minutes for an agent to leave the breakroom and come connect the jetbridge. Now it seems like the agent is almost always waiting in the driver cab when the plane pulls in, and deplaning begins almost immediately. Was there some sort of campaign around this? It used to be absolutely terrible.


I was on an AA flight earlier this year, flying to DFW. Before we left our departure airport, AA.com app showed our flight arriving 20 minutes early and gave the arrival gate number in DFW. We arrived at our assigned gate in DFW exactly 20 minutes early, just as the AA app had predicted 3 hours earlier. However we still had to wait 15 minutes at the gate with the engines running while we waited for someone to show up and operate the jetbridge in AA's biggest hub. How is that me as a PASSENGER knows our flight's arrival time and gate three hours BEFORE we arrive, yet the AA employees either don't know or don't care about our early arrival. It is the little things like this that can easily be solved, but seems to be challenging for AA.


When I worked in DFW (well before the merger) if an aircraft came in early then it waited to be parked until the rampers had time to do so. They were paid to work the aircraft when they were scheduled to arrive and they would sit in the pillbox until said arrival time.

I blame this all on Doug Parker and his penny pinching ways. He has mortgaged three airlines into one, created a huge burden of debt, and poisoned working relationships between management and craft. Unions won’t change unless they see positive change from management, and if you don’t think that flight ops will start dragging the brakes and finding every possible writeup then you’re crazy.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
citationjet
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:12 pm

airtran737 wrote:
When I worked in DFW (well before the merger) if an aircraft came in early then it waited to be parked until the rampers had time to do so. They were paid to work the aircraft when they were scheduled to arrive and they would sit in the pillbox until said arrival time.


I guess I don't understand how the ramp staff are paid. Are you saying that they don't get paid a continuous hourly rate from the time they clock in at the beginning of their shift until the end of their shift? Do you mean that their pay starts and stops during their shift between flights?
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:15 pm

They are paid hourly.

The are unionized and work under a contract.
 
citationjet
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
They are paid hourly.

The are unionized and work under a contract.


That doesn't really answer my question. I know they are hourly, union employees. If they are paid hourly, then why does it matter what time a flight arrives? Why would they wait until the scheduled arrival time to work a flight? What happens when a flight is an hour or two late?
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:42 pm

The previous poster is wrong.
 
citationjet
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:51 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
The previous poster is wrong.


Who is wrong?
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
airtran737
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:55 pm

citationjet wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
When I worked in DFW (well before the merger) if an aircraft came in early then it waited to be parked until the rampers had time to do so. They were paid to work the aircraft when they were scheduled to arrive and they would sit in the pillbox until said arrival time.


I guess I don't understand how the ramp staff are paid. Are you saying that they don't get paid a continuous hourly rate from the time they clock in at the beginning of their shift until the end of their shift? Do you mean that their pay starts and stops during their shift between flights?


No...I’m an idiot and I was only a ramper for years... Jesus Christ people assume stupid things here.

The rampers for AA got breaks between flights, and they weren’t giving up their break time for an early arrival. They stuck to their schedules and didn’t let anyone tell them what to do.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Etheereal
Posts: 354
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Re: AA encountering labor slow down due contract talks

Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:59 pm

citationjet wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
They are paid hourly.

The are unionized and work under a contract.


That doesn't really answer my question. I know they are hourly, union employees. If they are paid hourly, then why does it matter what time a flight arrives? Why would they wait until the scheduled arrival time to work a flight? What happens when a flight is an hour or two late?

Extended operations, would be my educated guess.

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