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chrisp390
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Airbus sells 25 A320neo to Wataniya Airways

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:29 pm

I saw an announcement at the air show that an airline called Wataniya Airlines had bought 25 A320NEO. I had not heard of them before so I did some research on the internet.

https://www.facebook.com/wataniyairways/reviews/

It turns out this airline has a 1.7 star rating by passengers as has endless complaints from passengers. An airline like this seems like it may not exist for much longer if it is being this badly managed, which begs the question, why is Airbus selling to airlines like this? It seems like they are assuming substantial risk taking on orders from these sorts of airlines.
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
evomutant
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:37 pm

What risk? If it was an A380 maybe, but a 320? None.

They bank the deposit. If they never take them up, someone else will take the production slots in about 5 nano-seconds. Even if they were built, someone would take them off Airbus's hands very very quickly. No risk of having white tails sitting on the ground.
 
Confuscius
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:39 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
It turns out this airline has a 1.7 star rating by passengers as has endless complaints from passengers. An airline like this seems like it may not exist for much longer if it is being this badly managed...


There's an airline in the US with similar complaints and star rating, and with lots of Airbus orders, but it has lasted for awhile now and profitable too.
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Denver772
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:43 pm

Confuscius wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
It turns out this airline has a 1.7 star rating by passengers as has endless complaints from passengers. An airline like this seems like it may not exist for much longer if it is being this badly managed...


There's an airline in the US with similar complaints and star rating, and with lots of Airbus orders, but it has lasted for awhile now and profitable too.


What airline is this? Just out of curiosity, not to start an argument.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:48 pm

Confuscius wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
It turns out this airline has a 1.7 star rating by passengers as has endless complaints from passengers. An airline like this seems like it may not exist for much longer if it is being this badly managed...


There's an airline in the US with similar complaints and star rating, and with lots of Airbus orders, but it has lasted for awhile now and profitable too.


Read all the reviews on the link I shared. It’s not a matter of simply bad service, it is things like flights being cancelled without notice and nobody to contact. It is what sounds like substantial operational problems, not a matter of a rude flight attendant and cramped seats.
 
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ua900
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:49 pm

Confuscius wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
It turns out this airline has a 1.7 star rating by passengers as has endless complaints from passengers. An airline like this seems like it may not exist for much longer if it is being this badly managed...


There's an airline in the US with similar complaints and star rating, and with lots of Airbus orders, but it has lasted for awhile now and profitable too.


My first thought exactly when reading that subject line *alone* before opening up the thread... NK, F9, G4... again, not speaking to profitability or lack thereof, just the header itself.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:59 pm

Passenger ratings and profitability often have nothing to do with one another.
 
berari
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:01 am

chrisp390 wrote:
I saw an announcement at the air show that an airline called Wataniya Airlines had bought 25 A320NEO. I had not heard of them before so I did some research on the internet.

https://www.facebook.com/wataniyairways/reviews/

It turns out this airline has a 1.7 star rating by passengers as has endless complaints from passengers. An airline like this seems like it may not exist for much longer if it is being this badly managed, which begs the question, why is Airbus selling to airlines like this? It seems like they are assuming substantial risk taking on orders from these sorts of airlines.


The 1.7 star rating you saw was a Facebook star rating, which I find comical for the basis of creating a thread.

Regardless, it's an airline that's willing to pay $ for aircraft and Airbus will sell to it. I am sure Boeing would also but lost out, but that the Airbus terms were favourable. If the airline folds, I am sure Airbus has conditions in place to limit its exposure.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:16 am

Not to nitpick, actually it is the lessor Golden Falcon Aviation buying the 25 A320neo on behalf of Wataniya Airlines. The current Wataniya Airlines, which started operation last July 2017; is an reincarnation of earlier airline of same name which folded in 2011 due to mounting debt. BTW, they are full service carrier with proper J and Y class.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:11 am

juliuswong wrote:
Not to nitpick, actually it is the lessor Golden Falcon Aviation buying the 25 A320neo on behalf of Wataniya Airlines. The current Wataniya Airlines, which started operation last July 2017; is an reincarnation of earlier airline of same name which folded in 2011 due to mounting debt. BTW, they are full service carrier with proper J and Y class.


Curious: do the two entities share ownership, i.e., akin to Arctic Aviation Assets and the Norwegian airlines, with AAA acquiring the actual aircraft (plus being a third-party lessor itself?)?
 
Confuscius
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:12 am

Denver772 wrote:
What airline is this? Just out of curiosity, not to start an argument.


Spirit Airlines. An airline which a lot of people say will not fly again after their initial experience, but apparently do come back because the airline is profitable.
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downdata
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:20 am

chrisp390 wrote:
Confuscius wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
....flights being cancelled without notice and nobody to contact. It is what sounds like substantial operational problems, not a matter of a rude flight attendant and cramped seats.


Sounds like Ryanair ... :rotfl:
 
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Erebus
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:45 am

chrisp390 wrote:
...why is Airbus selling to airlines like this? It seems like they are assuming substantial risk taking on orders from these sorts of airlines.


Not just Airbus then. Embraer just made a sale of 10 E195-E2s (+10 options) to this airline on day 2 of the show.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:01 am

It is amazing that an airline can get lessors to finance a $ Billion deal like this, but sometimes it is worth the risk and the airline pays a premium. This airline has already ceased operations before and is making a comeback. Good luck to them, but they don’t have a good track record. There certainly is risk that all planes won’t be taken up and operated for the full leases. The good news is that A320s are easy to transfer between operators if the airline does run into trouble again.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:16 am

juliuswong wrote:
Not to nitpick, actually it is the lessor Golden Falcon Aviation buying the 25 A320neo on behalf of Wataniya Airlines. The current Wataniya Airlines, which started operation last July 2017; is an reincarnation of earlier airline of same name which folded in 2011 due to mounting debt. BTW, they are full service carrier with proper J and Y class.


Thanks the info. It makes it even worse, I assumed it was an LCC, but if it is a full service airline with those sort of ratings that is even worse.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:44 am

I thought it is air koryo when reading title
 
MoReZ84
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:41 am

chrisp390 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Not to nitpick, actually it is the lessor Golden Falcon Aviation buying the 25 A320neo on behalf of Wataniya Airlines. The current Wataniya Airlines, which started operation last July 2017; is an reincarnation of earlier airline of same name which folded in 2011 due to mounting debt. BTW, they are full service carrier with proper J and Y class.


Thanks the info. It makes it even worse, I assumed it was an LCC, but if it is a full service airline with those sort of ratings that is even worse.


I don't remember seeing anywhere other than facebook where this is a 1 star airline so I assume you're taking by face value.

Plus this is business at the end of the day. Airbus needs to sell aircraft and Wataniya needs to overhaul their fleet in turn offer better service.......................win win
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:54 am

Denver772 wrote:
What airline is this? Just out of curiosity, not to start an argument.


They are Wataniya Airways - the third player in Kuwait after Kuwait Airways and Jazeera. Their earlier avatar as mentioned above shut down because of mounting losses, now they are having another go.

They marketed themselves as a premium airline earlier (F and J only), not sure if that still holds.
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Monty1988
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:39 am

AFIK Wataniya airways is doing very well, But in desperate need of more planes.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:23 am

Yeah, and? If they have the finances aircraft manufacturers will sell to them. Ryanair who has similar ratings is the largest 737-800 operator. Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant all have orders with Airbus. This is a ridiculous thread.
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planecrazy20
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 am

aircatalonia wrote:
Oil has gone up recently. Perhaps the Sheikh has some spare cash to pay the planes upfront?


Your post comes across as ignorant, but im going to assume you dont know much about Kuwait.
Wataniya is a public company. The Kuwaiti government doesn't finance it. There are a lot more checks and balances in Kuwait than the rest of the region. If the "Sheikh" did go around throwing money at businesses then KU wouldnt have been in the state it was in for the past 2 decades.
 
sabby
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:36 am

planecrazy20 wrote:
aircatalonia wrote:
Oil has gone up recently. Perhaps the Sheikh has some spare cash to pay the planes upfront?


Your post comes across as ignorant, but im going to assume you dont know much about Kuwait.
Wataniya is a public company. The Kuwaiti government doesn't finance it. There are a lot more checks and balances in Kuwait than the rest of the region. If the "Sheikh" did go around throwing money at businesses then KU wouldnt have been in the state it was in for the past 2 decades.


I think aircatalonia is talking about the rich Sheikhs being in the front cabin as J customers, not as financiers.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:08 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
I thought it is air koryo when reading title


:white: So I guess I am not the only one.

On the other hand, FB review star rating? Like that is ever reliable?
 
toxtethogrady
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:08 pm

Wataniya is a low-fare carrier operating out of Kuwait. They've actually been around for a while, though they had to die and be reborn once...
 
LewisNEO
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:27 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
I thought it is air koryo when reading title


:white: So I guess I am not the only one.

On the other hand, FB review star rating? Like that is ever reliable?


It isn't reliable, I agree. I also thought something completely different and wondered if I missed something and Air Koryo (The only Sky Trax 1 star airline) ordered these planes. It must have been wrong, I expected such an order to be at least a Boeing win. ;)

The title of this thread is very confusing and doesn't cover the subject.
Maybe it's better to have a title like: Wataniya, an airline with a poor online customer rating buys 25 a320neos.

But still I am missing the point, why would it be an issue if an airline with a poor online track record of customer ratings buys new planes? There are many other airlines with a low online customer satisfaction level which buy planes.
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seabosdca
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:25 pm

In today's market, having near-term neo or MAX slots is an asset in itself. There is very little risk in taking deposits from questionable airlines.

If the backlogs were shorter the risk picture would be different.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:28 pm

If it is a 1.7 star rating on Facebook, a bit disingenuous to call it a '1-star' airline.

At the very least lets round up to 2, no?
 
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TOGA10
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:36 pm

LewisNEO wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
I thought it is air koryo when reading title


:white: So I guess I am not the only one.

On the other hand, FB review star rating? Like that is ever reliable?


It isn't reliable, I agree. I also thought something completely different and wondered if I missed something and Air Koryo (The only Sky Trax 1 star airline) ordered these planes. It must have been wrong, I expected such an order to be at least a Boeing win. ;)

The title of this thread is very confusing and doesn't cover the subject.
Maybe it's better to have a title like: Wataniya, an airline with a poor online customer rating buys 25 a320neos.

But still I am missing the point, why would it be an issue if an airline with a poor online track record of customer ratings buys new planes? There are many other airlines with a low online customer satisfaction level which buy planes.

Yes, because Sky Trax is reliable! Probably as reliable as an FB rating probably...
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BestWestern
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Facebook ratings, meh.
Skytrax ratings, double meh.
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ramzi
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:29 pm

They recently had an emergency landing in Jordan due to an engine issue. No outrage or complaints from passengers, no indication of any lack of reliability or professionalism.

https://www.pressreader.com/kuwait/arab ... 5320980023

What should aircraft manufacturers do? Ask passengers about their opinion before selling an airline new aircraft?
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sevenair
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:45 pm

How many stars to Ryanair have?
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:51 pm

Confuscius wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
It turns out this airline has a 1.7 star rating by passengers as has endless complaints from passengers. An airline like this seems like it may not exist for much longer if it is being this badly managed...


There's an airline in the US with similar complaints and star rating, and with lots of Airbus orders, but it has lasted for awhile now and profitable too.


The thing about online ratings...people who have uneventful flights are unlikely to post about it. They are a venting mechanism.
 
Planesmart
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Re: Airbus Sells 25 A320NEO To 1 Star Airline

Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:51 am

Airlines acquiring new aircraft already have enough barriers to overcome. Now they are required to meet minimum customer review standards! How does a start-up acquire a fleet?
 
Monty1988
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Re: Airbus sells 25 A320neo to Wataniya Airways

Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:13 pm

Flew roundtrip on Wataniya KWI to GYD both flights were excellent, Nice crew new A320 food was good all in all i found it to be much better than Easyjet & Ryanair and even Kuwaiti Jazeera airways.

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