User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 10255
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:48 am

Announced at Farnborough, Hawaiian Airlines have firmed their LOI made in March for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Hawaiian Airlines plans to use the 787-9's on its current network plus offer new destinations to and from Asia Pacific and North America

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-07-19- ... reamliners
Forum Moderator
 
AirbusOnly
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:06 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:06 am

That means they are unhappy with their current longhaul fleet of A 330 and plan to phase them out? AFAIK these frames are still rather new....
 
User avatar
DL747400
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:37 am

When do the deliveries begin?
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 703
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:48 am

AirbusOnly wrote:
That means they are unhappy with their current longhaul fleet of A 330 and plan to phase them out? AFAIK these frames are still rather new....

No, they had ordered the A358. Airbus decided to shelf the A358, giving them an option of choosing the A338, possibly with special cancellation clauses. The market for the A330neo, particularly the A338 then began to look dim, which may had affected the financing terms for the A338. They then reviewed the order and looked at Boeing and in the end Boeing gave a better deal than sticking with Airbus.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 10255
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:52 am

DL747400 wrote:
When do the deliveries begin?


First delivery is 2021
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 9973
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:54 am

AirbusOnly wrote:
That means they are unhappy with their current longhaul fleet of A 330 and plan to phase them out? AFAIK these frames are still rather new....

So the fact that fuel is rising making the 787 more efficient and Boeing making them a killer financial deal means nothing?
We already know that for most airline purchases, finances is a major factor versus the capabilities of the competing a/c, happy or unhappy may not even factor into the decision, just follow the money.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23022
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:58 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
That means they are unhappy with their current longhaul fleet of A 330 and plan to phase them out? AFAIK these frames are still rather new....

No.

At the time they made their A330 order they felt the A330 was the best match to their needs.

At the time they made their B789 order they felt the B789 was the best match to their needs.

It's not about being happy or unhappy, it's about finding the best match to their needs.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Xtremespeed01
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:50 pm

Revelation wrote:
AirbusOnly wrote:
That means they are unhappy with their current longhaul fleet of A 330 and plan to phase them out? AFAIK these frames are still rather new....

No.

At the time they made their A330 order they felt the A330 was the best match to their needs.

At the time they made their B789 order they felt the B789 was the best match to their needs.

It's not about being happy or unhappy, it's about finding the best match to their needs.



Exactly what you said. Hawaiian found an aircraft that fits the needs they need in the near future. Not that the A350-900 is not a capable aircraft, Hawaiian probably see the aircraft as too much aircraft for their needs in the near term. Wouldn't make sense to fly a quarter empty plane when one that smaller can fly full.

Someone stated earlier in a previous post on here that Hawaiian original fleet renewal plan was place forth between Boeing 787 and the Airbus A350. But with both aircrafts still being in development at the time, Hawaiian asked for a interim aircraft to increase its fleets before these newly designed aircrafts were suppose to enter service. Boeing offered more 767, Airbus offered the A330s. Hawaiian wanted to fly further and carry more passengers then the current fleet at the time 767s. The increased range and passenger count of the A330s over the 767s and probably the pricing of the aircrafts the A330s and a350s vs the Boeing's offerings to Hawaiian was in Airbus's favor. This time around, Boeing had the aircraft that fits the needs and probably offered a better pricing for Hawaiian.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:10 pm

...and the fact that their first choice no longer was available.
 
User avatar
smithbs
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:31 pm

Hawaiian wanted more than 767? Maybe, but not by much as they only ever got A332s. A333 could easily make West Coast-Hawaii, but it appears HA manages their capacity. I personally don't quite understand - A332 is a heavy bird for its size when compared to 767-300ER, but it works for HA.

The A332s are quite nice in my experience, being better than any 737 that I've been on from SEA to Hawaii.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:56 pm

Agree! Hawaiian A330s are very nice compared to other carriers, even in coach. I was bummed to learn that my SAN-OGG flight in first is in a 767 and not an A330. Their website originally said A330, right down to the seat map, but I think that was a glitch as the 767 is more normal out of SAN. At least I get to try their A321 in first class back.

Back on topic, had Airbus not cancelled the A350 variant that HA wanted, we wouldn't be having this conversation. This looks like a case of questionable planning on Airbus' part. By cancelling the A358 and offering the A338, HA was left with a plane that was capable and fit their needs, but not nearly as well as the A358 would have. Toss in the fact that it was looking more and more like an orphan plane without a lot of resale and financing options due to the lack of additional orders and the choice to switch to the B787 was an easy one. Odd that Airbus is usually so good at deciphering and planning market sectors and plane sizes, and yet missed predicting proper demand levels for both the A338 and the A358.
 
junlinwong94
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:35 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:20 pm

But the market demand might have already change by the time they receive their 789s
 
User avatar
hawaiian717
Posts: 3428
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:02 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
I was bummed to learn that my SAN-OGG flight in first is in a 767 and not an A330. Their website originally said A330, right down to the seat map, but I think that was a glitch as the 767 is more normal out of SAN. At least I get to try their A321 in first class back.


SAN-OGG (at least the current iteration) was never planned to use an A330. It was announced as an A321neo route, but due to the A321neo delivery delays, the 767 was used for the first few weeks.

SAN-HNL was launched with the DC-10, and was one of the first routes to switch to the 767 when they were added to the fleet. It has been an A330 route for the past several years.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:27 pm

Right. Like I Said, it must have been a glitch. I even chose my A330 seat while buying the ticket (2A) but then logged in later and it said 767. Oh well!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14278
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:42 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
I was bummed to learn that my SAN-OGG flight in first is in a 767 and not an A330. Their website originally said A330, right down to the seat map, but I think that was a glitch as the 767 is more normal out of SAN. At least I get to try their A321 in first class back.


SAN-OGG (at least the current iteration) was never planned to use an A330. It was announced as an A321neo route, but due to the A321neo delivery delays, the 767 was used for the first few weeks.

SAN-HNL was launched with the DC-10, and was one of the first routes to switch to the 767 when they were added to the fleet. It has been an A330 route for the past several years.


I'm not sure when flights 37 and 38 (SAN-OGG-SAN) changed back, but the 763 currently operates them, and that has been in the schedule for months (I'm booked on 38 two weeks from now and when I booked it around Memorial Day it was scheduled as a 763).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
DL777200LR
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:09 pm

What engine did they choose? All their A330 are RR.
Nothing better than the sound of a 77W GE90-115B on engine start.
 
User avatar
hawaiian717
Posts: 3428
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:35 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
I'm not sure when flights 37 and 38 (SAN-OGG-SAN) changed back, but the 763 currently operates them, and that has been in the schedule for months (I'm booked on 38 two weeks from now and when I booked it around Memorial Day it was scheduled as a 763).


I didn't realize they changed back. Looking at FlightAware, HAL37 started operating with A321neo on June 28 and went back to the 767 on July 17.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24118
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:35 pm

DL777200LR wrote:
What engine did they choose? All their A330 are RR.


GE was announced in March

https://www.geaviation.com/press-releas ... reamliners
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Prost
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:35 am

Hawaiian only had 8 -800s ordered, yet they ordered 10 789. Traffic growth? if they had kept the A338s would they have ordered 2 more?
 
jagraham
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:09 am

Re the 767 vs A332 tradeoff, it should be noted that HA A332s carry about 290 people, vs 260 for the 763. As for range, HA flies to JFK, 4970 sm.

The JFK-HNL isn't Hawaiian's longest route, though. It flies from Honolulu to Sydney, Australia, a jaunt that's about 100 miles farther than New York-Honolulu, and Honolulu to Manila, about 5,290 miles.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... -goes-long

These flights would be tough with maxed out 763ERs
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3233
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:22 am

smithbs wrote:
Hawaiian wanted more than 767? Maybe, but not by much as they only ever got A332s. A333 could easily make West Coast-Hawaii, but it appears HA manages their capacity. I personally don't quite understand - A332 is a heavy bird for its size when compared to 767-300ER, but it works for HA.

The A332s are quite nice in my experience, being better than any 737 that I've been on from SEA to Hawaii.


For the heavier routes, the A332 is being used. However, some might downgauge to an A321neo with more frequency as HA will have twice the number of that than they did 767s at their peak. Heavier West Coast destinations and JFK will still see the A332 until the B789 replaces them.

As for the A338, Uganda likely got two of the NTU frames at bargain basement prices, given that they're now the only customer for them. The B789 also likely now permits HNL-LGW nonstop without restrictions, and also as far as SIN westbound without restriction. I honestly can't see another US destination with the B789 other than the West Coast and JFK.
 
jagraham
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:31 am

jagraham wrote:
Re the 767 vs A332 tradeoff, it should be noted that HA A332s carry about 290 people, vs 260 for the 763. As for range, HA flies to JFK, 4970 sm.

The JFK-HNL isn't Hawaiian's longest route, though. It flies from Honolulu to Sydney, Australia, a jaunt that's about 100 miles farther than New York-Honolulu, and Honolulu to Manila, about 5,290 miles.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... -goes-long

These flights would be tough with maxed out 763ERs


I should also say that Manila is no more . . didn't realize at the time it was HA's longest flight.
 
jagraham
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:35 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
smithbs wrote:
Hawaiian wanted more than 767? Maybe, but not by much as they only ever got A332s. A333 could easily make West Coast-Hawaii, but it appears HA manages their capacity. I personally don't quite understand - A332 is a heavy bird for its size when compared to 767-300ER, but it works for HA.

The A332s are quite nice in my experience, being better than any 737 that I've been on from SEA to Hawaii.


For the heavier routes, the A332 is being used. However, some might downgauge to an A321neo with more frequency as HA will have twice the number of that than they did 767s at their peak. Heavier West Coast destinations and JFK will still see the A332 until the B789 replaces them.

As for the A338, Uganda likely got two of the NTU frames at bargain basement prices, given that they're now the only customer for them. The B789 also likely now permits HNL-LGW nonstop without restrictions, and also as far as SIN westbound without restriction. I honestly can't see another US destination with the B789 other than the West Coast and JFK.


I expect several other US destinations. There is demand in the region between LAS and JFK. The question is what equipment will be used? And when will new routes to the Midwest, South, and Mid-Atlantic start? I think HA is getting these 789s for growth and not replacement. And as others have noted, there are other Asian destinations that would be good for Hawaiian.
 
mfe777
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:48 am

ORD, DFW, IAH, ATL, and YVR all seem likely for new North American destinations. Hawaiian can compete with the legacy carriers by offering a superior product and service, and can offer less than daily service to get things going.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:10 am

Any news on whether they're considering the A220/C-Series? I haven't seen mention in any other threads or topics. It would be interesting seeing them flying out of smaller mainland airports to the islands alongside the 787s and A321s.
 
User avatar
HA_DC9
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 1999 3:16 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:29 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I'm not sure when flights 37 and 38 (SAN-OGG-SAN) changed back, but the 763 currently operates them, and that has been in the schedule for months (I'm booked on 38 two weeks from now and when I booked it around Memorial Day it was scheduled as a 763).


I didn't realize they changed back. Looking at FlightAware, HAL37 started operating with A321neo on June 28 and went back to the 767 on July 17.


I'm on flight 38 OGG-SAN on August 6th and got an email notification of the change of aircraft to a 767 about two months ago. I heard from some HA employees that this was due to return to service of one 767 to cover flying due to the A321neo delivery delays which were due to the P&W engine issues. HA switched flight 38 to a 767 on the 16th and flight 37 on the 17th because they needed the A321neo to launch the daily A321neo LIH-OAK flight starting on July 16th out of LIH and July 17th out of OAK as well that was originally supposed to start back in April on the A321neo had it not been for the delivery delays.


I played around with the HA reservations website and it looks like the outbound OGG-SAN flight 38 switches back to A321neo on August 16th and the inbound SAN-OGG flight 37 on August 17th. So the switch will only be for a month. HA only has 6 A321neo's in operation right now for various routes. The 7th was delivered today and the 8th in the coming days/weeks. Deliveries are coming in as for a while earlier this year, HA only had 2 A321neo's flying when the engine problems popped up and Airbus suspended deliveries.
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:29 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
Any news on whether they're considering the A220/C-Series? I haven't seen mention in any other threads or topics. It would be interesting seeing them flying out of smaller mainland airports to the islands alongside the 787s and A321s.


That was the whole point of getting the 321s, to serve the smaller mainland destinations and to increase frequency to others.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2503
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:31 am

If the 797 comes to fruition, I believe those options will be excercised for the 797 and the 797 will become the primary airplane to the mainland.

What are the primary cargo airports for HA for outbound cargo to hawaii?
 
pdxav8r
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:15 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:38 am

mfe777 wrote:
ORD, DFW, IAH, ATL, and YVR all seem likely for new North American destinations. Hawaiian can compete with the legacy carriers by offering a superior product and service, and can offer less than daily service to get things going.


Possible, but have a hard time thinking HA wants to tussle with longer destinations that are hubs for legacies that already serve the route, some with multiple frequencies. Especially with FF flyers that would be willing to pay a little more for their miles. The west coast is one thing. All cities mentioned above, I get, but HA may be better served with Asian and Oceanic new connections.
 
User avatar
jmpflyer
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:11 am

Any chance HA would return to the Philippines? Maybe CRK?
"Turbulence is a pilot's cheap massage"
 
airbazar
Posts: 9997
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:03 am

Prost wrote:
Hawaiian only had 8 -800s ordered, yet they ordered 10 789. Traffic growth? if they had kept the A338s would they have ordered 2 more?

Originally it was 6+6 A358's and 6+6 A332's for a total of 24 A330's. They ended up with 24 A332's.. So 10+10 789's is actually a WB fleet reduction over longer term which makes sense because the A321neo is proving to be very capable. A bunch (maybe all?), of the A332's are leased so most likely the 789's will come in as the leases expire.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:26 pm

That was the whole point of getting the 321s, to serve the smaller mainland destinations and to increase frequency to others.


Agreed, but the A321 still would have issues at places like John Wayne and Burbank with their very short runways, fully loaded. Those just come to mind right off the top of my head. At some point, the 717s will need replacement. The C-Series By Whatever Name may be a good replacement eventually, allowing for both interisland and mainland flights able to get into very small airports. I agree that it probably doesn't need to happen anytime soon, and perhaps doesn't need to, but it would be interesting. Beat of Hawaii and a few other Hawaiian travel websites were actively mentioned the probability of HA considering the A220 for just that purpose - mainland to Hawaii routes from very small or short runway airports, or to airports that can't support A321 frequencies currently, like ONT (although I disagree with that last one, personally).
 
Planes4you
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:42 pm

mfe777 wrote:
ORD, DFW, IAH, ATL, and YVR all seem likely for new North American destinations. Hawaiian can compete with the legacy carriers by offering a superior product and service, and can offer less than daily service to get things going.



Why would Hawaiian fly to IAH when they only have one Hawaiian destination the demand clearly isnt there.The demand is at DFW which explains why they fly multiple daily to HNL and OGG,and one to KOA all of which are on 777s,and one flight to Lihue on a 767.Even then they can’t fly to DFW because AA pretty much dominates the Hawaii from DFW and (correct me if I’m wrong) the state of Texas too.However I do believe once their 789s come there could be more demand then there is now,but we’ll see.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14278
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:56 pm

HA_DC9 wrote:
hawaiian717 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I'm not sure when flights 37 and 38 (SAN-OGG-SAN) changed back, but the 763 currently operates them, and that has been in the schedule for months (I'm booked on 38 two weeks from now and when I booked it around Memorial Day it was scheduled as a 763).


I didn't realize they changed back. Looking at FlightAware, HAL37 started operating with A321neo on June 28 and went back to the 767 on July 17.


I'm on flight 38 OGG-SAN on August 6th and got an email notification of the change of aircraft to a 767 about two months ago. I heard from some HA employees that this was due to return to service of one 767 to cover flying due to the A321neo delivery delays which were due to the P&W engine issues. HA switched flight 38 to a 767 on the 16th and flight 37 on the 17th because they needed the A321neo to launch the daily A321neo LIH-OAK flight starting on July 16th out of LIH and July 17th out of OAK as well that was originally supposed to start back in April on the A321neo had it not been for the delivery delays.


I played around with the HA reservations website and it looks like the outbound OGG-SAN flight 38 switches back to A321neo on August 16th and the inbound SAN-OGG flight 37 on August 17th. So the switch will only be for a month. HA only has 6 A321neo's in operation right now for various routes. The 7th was delivered today and the 8th in the coming days/weeks. Deliveries are coming in as for a while earlier this year, HA only had 2 A321neo's flying when the engine problems popped up and Airbus suspended deliveries.


Good info. Between the fact that HA has other widebody operations at SAN and the fact that DL flies 767s to SAN so there is probably somewhat more m/x support for the aircraft there than at a place like OAK or SMF, it probably makes some sense to see the 763 back there as they ramp up with the neo.

And FWIW, my kids are getting their first widebody ride out of the 763 service, so as a plane nerd parent it's helpful to me too.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bzcat
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:59 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
If the 797 comes to fruition, I believe those options will be excercised for the 797 and the 797 will become the primary airplane to the mainland.

What are the primary cargo airports for HA for outbound cargo to hawaii?


LAX-HNL accounts for the lion share of cargo movements to Hawaii.

Hawaii imports almost everything from the mainland. It actually doesn't have very much direct trade with Asian countries.

797 may be a good plane for West Coast-Hawaii but HA seems to have committed to A321 NEO.
 
Xtremespeed01
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:09 am

bzcat wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
If the 797 comes to fruition, I believe those options will be excercised for the 797 and the 797 will become the primary airplane to the mainland.

What are the primary cargo airports for HA for outbound cargo to hawaii?


LAX-HNL accounts for the lion share of cargo movements to Hawaii.

Hawaii imports almost everything from the mainland. It actually doesn't have very much direct trade with Asian countries.

797 may be a good plane for West Coast-Hawaii but HA seems to have committed to A321 NEO.



LAX-HNL is major cargo ops for any carrier, especially for Hawaiian. Other cargo heavy airports for are from Japan, Australia, as well as JFK, Northwest and the Bay Area.


797 might be a future plane for Hawaiian, but since its not an official plane, HA had to do something to compete with other carriers, especially AS, when flying to the neighbor islands. HA looked to both the 737MAX and A321neo and deemed that the better fit their needs at the time. They probably got a good deal when the A350-800->A330-800 wasn't panning out in HA's favor.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3714
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:07 am

airbazar wrote:
Prost wrote:
Hawaiian only had 8 -800s ordered, yet they ordered 10 789. Traffic growth? if they had kept the A338s would they have ordered 2 more?

Originally it was 6+6 A358's and 6+6 A332's for a total of 24 A330's. They ended up with 24 A332's.. So 10+10 789's is actually a WB fleet reduction over longer term which makes sense because the A321neo is proving to be very capable. A bunch (maybe all?), of the A332's are leased so most likely the 789's will come in as the leases expire.


The 6+6 330s turned into 24, so if the 789 ends up replacing the 330s long term, it's likely the 789 orders will surpass the original order, like the 330s. The 789s will allow flexibility to grow the fleet or replace the 330s, or both. Lots of flexibility, just like the 767/330 growth plans. BTW, 11 of the 330s are leased, 12 are owned.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:11 am

azjubilee wrote:
BTW, 11 of the 330s are leased, 12 are owned.


Good info - thanks. Are the A321neo's owned or leased?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
travaz
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:35 am

Don't forget that Boeing is taking the 767's off their hands pain free. HA has been flying a wide-body into PHX for years (767) quite successfully in competition with US/AA. The new schedule brings an A330 to PHX
Last edited by travaz on Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3714
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:53 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
azjubilee wrote:
BTW, 11 of the 330s are leased, 12 are owned.


Good info - thanks. Are the A321neo's owned or leased?


Sorry, 11 330s are leased, 13 owned. 16 of the 18 321neo’s are planned to be owned. While we are at it, 15 of the 20 717s are owned.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:28 am

azjubilee wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
azjubilee wrote:
BTW, 11 of the 330s are leased, 12 are owned.


Good info - thanks. Are the A321neo's owned or leased?


Sorry, 11 330s are leased, 13 owned. 16 of the 18 321neo’s are planned to be owned. While we are at it, 15 of the 20 717s are owned.


So 44 owned and 18 leased. Seems like a nice, healthy mix.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3714
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:58 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
azjubilee wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Good info - thanks. Are the A321neo's owned or leased?


Sorry, 11 330s are leased, 13 owned. 16 of the 18 321neo’s are planned to be owned. While we are at it, 15 of the 20 717s are owned.


So 44 owned and 18 leased. Seems like a nice, healthy mix.


HAL also owns the entire Ohana fleet. At its peak, the 767 fleet was 7 owned and 11 leased. At the moment, I believe only 1 is owned (594). I think I read somewhere that previously owned 580,581 and 582 are no longer as the fleet prepares for retirement.
 
musman9853
Posts: 958
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:01 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Odd that Airbus is usually so good at deciphering and planning market sectors and plane sizes, and yet missed predicting proper demand levels for both the A338 and the A358.



the fact the a380 exists is proof that what you said isn't true.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
SC430
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:45 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:15 pm

musman9853 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
Odd that Airbus is usually so good at deciphering and planning market sectors and plane sizes, and yet missed predicting proper demand levels for both the A338 and the A358.



the fact the a380 exists is proof that what you said isn't true.


I would add that Airbus has allowed itself to have no credible freighter offering. Freighter backlog is like 200 Boeing to 4 Airbus.Freighters are very profitable.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6947
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:29 pm

mfe777 wrote:
ORD, DFW, IAH, ATL, and YVR all seem likely for new North American destinations. Hawaiian can compete with the legacy carriers by offering a superior product and service, and can offer less than daily service to get things going.


They could but they choose not to. (Look at seat count and lack of AVOD.) They can fly JFK-HNL because of the size and fragmentation of the NYC market. They'll bleed $$$ if they go into DFW, IAH or ATL against AA, UA and DL. How hard is it to compete against Delta in ATL? WN carries fewer than 2/3 of the ATL passengers that AirTran did ten years ago.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:04 pm

the fact the a380 exists is proof that what you said isn't true.


The word I used was, "usually," which on its own indicates a non-absolute. Usually, You know, not always but quite often. Um, word meaning and comprehension? Sorry, I don't want to start anything but that 's another example of people on A.net nitpicking every last piece of minutia when it isn't necessary.
 
travaz
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
the fact the a380 exists is proof that what you said isn't true.


The word I used was, "usually," which on its own indicates a non-absolute. Usually, You know, not always but quite often. Um, word meaning and comprehension? Sorry, I don't want to start anything but that 's another example of people on A.net nitpicking every last piece of minutia when it isn't necessary.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
 
B752OS
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:18 pm

As Hawaiian would configure the plane, will their 789s be able to make HNL-JFK and JFK-HNL non-stop with a full load of passengers and cargo?
 
Xtremespeed01
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:32 pm

The way Hawaiian configured their current a330-200s, they can fly a full load with 278 pax and full cargo. Don't see why a 300+ pax 787-9 with full cargo wouldn't be able to do the same route. HNL-JFK is well under the range of a fully loaded 787-9.
 
77H
Posts: 1556
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Hawaiian Airlines firms order for 10 787-9's plus 10 options

Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:55 pm

Planes4you wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
ORD, DFW, IAH, ATL, and YVR all seem likely for new North American destinations. Hawaiian can compete with the legacy carriers by offering a superior product and service, and can offer less than daily service to get things going.



Why would Hawaiian fly to IAH when they only have one Hawaiian destination the demand clearly isnt there.The demand is at DFW which explains why they fly multiple daily to HNL and OGG,and one to KOA all of which are on 777s,and one flight to Lihue on a 767.Even then they can’t fly to DFW because AA pretty much dominates the Hawaii from DFW and (correct me if I’m wrong) the state of Texas too.However I do believe once their 789s come there could be more demand then there is now,but we’ll see.


While the DFW CSA does yield more visitors to Hawaii than HOU you have to factor in that AA flows connecting passengers from any point East of the Mississippi over DFW as AA doesn’t serve the Hawaii market nonstop from any of its hubs East of DFW currently. This largely accounts for the robust service offering from DFW. UA operates nonstops from 3 hub markets East of IAH meaning UA doesn’t need to lean on IAH for connections to the same extent so the service offering doesn’t need to be as extensive.

As others have said, I’m doubtful HA will want to take on the legacies at their hub markets. Not only do the legacies have the advantage of large FF customer bases but can also Leverage connections. HA will have to rely mostly on O&D.

77H

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos