DTWLAX
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LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:46 pm

Looks like LH has discontinued the FRA-PNQ service operated by Privatair
I was booked to fly DTW-FRA-PNQ on September 19th but got an email saying I was rerouted DTW-FRA-DEL-PNQ. When I looked at the summer 2018 and winter 2019 timetables on the LH website, PNQ is not even listed as a destination from FRA.
Anybody know why the route was suddenly discontinued?
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:21 pm

Figured this would happen eventually unfortunately.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:41 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Figured this would happen eventually unfortunately.

Wondering why. The route ran for almost a decade. I believe it had started in 2008.
3x weekly was a nice frequency for PNQ. I think the auto industry related corporate fliers preferred flying out of PNQ instead of having to drive to BOM.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:56 pm

Is LH going to codeshare on AI's DEL-PNQ-DEL flights that connect well with LH at DEL then?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:13 pm

The aircraft is being reallocated to DUS-EWR.
 
factsonly
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:21 pm

The PrivatAir B737 which LH previously used for FRA-PNQ-FRA is currently used by BA for European service out of LGW:

- 23 Jul 2018 LGW - LIG BA2792 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 23 Jul 2018 VCE - LGW BA2581 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 23 Jul 2018 LGW - VCE BA2586 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 22 Jul 2018 BOD - LGW BA2787 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 22 Jul 2018 LGW - BOD BA2786 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 21 Jul 2018 AMS - LGW BA2765 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 21 Jul 2018 LGW - AMS BA2764 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 21 Jul 2018 JER - LGW BA2775 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 21 Jul 2018 LGW - JER BA2774 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 21 Jul 2018 AMS - LGW BA2761 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 21 Jul 2018 LGW - AMS BA2760 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 20 Jul 2018 VCE - LGW BA2587 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
- 20 Jul 2018 LGW - VCE BA2586 Scheduled B737 D-AWBB
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:49 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Figured this would happen eventually unfortunately.

Wondering why. The route ran for almost a decade. I believe it had started in 2008.
3x weekly was a nice frequency for PNQ. I think the auto industry related corporate fliers preferred flying out of PNQ instead of having to drive to BOM.


Well that's too bad. Pune has back-offices for all sorts of industries and the FRA-PNQ routing made a nice one-stop routing from North America. It probably isn't economical to push the 73G to the absolute edge of its mission range. I believe the eastbound leg was the longest scheduled 73G flight and the westbound had a scheduled a tech-stop.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
drdisque
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:01 pm

I believe the offshoring to the Pune area has slowed and as fewer new offices open and older offices are established, fewer people have to travel back and forth. One of my past companies had an office there and we always just flew people to DEL and took a car to Pune rather than dealing with and paying for flying directly to PNQ.
 
BestWestern
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:18 pm

Mumbai to Pune surely?
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DTWLAX
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:40 pm

drdisque wrote:
I believe the offshoring to the Pune area has slowed and as fewer new offices open and older offices are established, fewer people have to travel back and forth. One of my past companies had an office there and we always just flew people to DEL and took a car to Pune rather than dealing with and paying for flying directly to PNQ.

Car from DEL to Pune? You must be kidding!
Or did you mean you flew people to BOM and then took a car to Pune?
 
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zeke
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:51 pm

BestWestern wrote:
Mumbai to Pune surely?


Only a short 25 hr drive from DEL in good traffic, around 5 hrs drive from BOM.
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Irehdna
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:53 pm

drdisque wrote:
we always just flew people to DEL and took a car to Pune rather than dealing with and paying for flying directly to PNQ.

These people must be interested in Indian sightseeing. About 3 days worth of driving separate Delhi and Pune (incl rests).
 
drdisque
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:12 am

Yes, I was confused, the people flew to BOM.
 
LH658
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:46 am

Sad to hear now just down to BLR, MAA, DEL, and BOM, hoping they can open ATQ, HYD, or CCU.
 
binayak
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:56 am

Now is there a chance that BOM will get the 748 year round in FRA route ?
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
DUSZRH
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:24 am

LH cancelled the Privatair contract, it was reported due to financial difficulties of Privatair.
 
cityshuttle
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:34 am

DUSZRH wrote:
LH cancelled the Privatair contract, it was reported due to financial difficulties of Privatair.


Correct.

But don't they have any aircraft e.g. A 320 neo to continue this route ?

Or is this a too long distance ?

I understand that the pax numbers and loads are too low for a widebody.
 
SCQ83
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:49 am

I imagine those premium narrow body long-haul aircrafts make less and less sense. Every other route has been chopped; from QR flying LHR-DOH to SAS (PrivatAir) on IAH-SVG, and LCY-JFK on BA is dying.

3 weekly FRA-PNQ does not offer a lot of flexibility. With increasingly more destinations from DEL and BOM to Europe and the US, it is likely as convenient to fly someone XXX-DEL-PNQ rather than XXX-FRA-PNQ.
 
Jetter330
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:38 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The aircraft is being reallocated to DUS-EWR.


Says who?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:51 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I imagine those premium narrow body long-haul aircrafts make less and less sense. Every other route has been chopped; from QR flying LHR-DOH to SAS (PrivatAir) on IAH-SVG, and LCY-JFK on BA is dying.

3 weekly FRA-PNQ does not offer a lot of flexibility. With increasingly more destinations from DEL and BOM to Europe and the US, it is likely as convenient to fly someone XXX-DEL-PNQ rather than XXX-FRA-PNQ.


I think you missed the "premium heavy" qualifier.

Narrow Body long-haul is the future. I am sure first electric/hybrid to do Gander-Shannon will be a small capacity narrow body.
 
LGAviation
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:53 pm

Jetter330 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The aircraft is being reallocated to DUS-EWR.


Says who?


When I had a look the winter schedule that route was still LH 330 and it makes sense given the connections to also offer Y between a UA hub and DUS even with the new DUS-JFK service on EW.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
SCQ83
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:13 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think you missed the "premium heavy" qualifier.


I don't miss anything. That is why there is Business and First Class in wide bodies. How long is a DEL-PNQ flight? 2 hours?

So for someone connecting from, let's say, London, how is LHR-FRA-PNQ more convenient than LHR-DEL-PNQ?
 
DUSZRH
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:15 pm

The aircraft was planned to go for a month (August) to DUS-EWR, however, as the contract was canceled, the DUS-EWR flight is now canceled during the summer holidays.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:32 pm

Jetter330 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
The aircraft is being reallocated to DUS-EWR.


Says who?


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/

If the route is being cut, most likely passengers will be funneled through JFK on Eurowings (which is in a CityLine configuration). For those needing connections through EWR, I have to wonder if they're being done through another UA hub.
 
DTWLAX
Topic Author
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:35 pm

I read somewhere that at one point LH wanted to use the A330 to fly to PNQ but the airport restrictions at PNQ did not allow them to do that.
Is that true?
 
sabby
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:50 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
I read somewhere that at one point LH wanted to use the A330 to fly to PNQ but the airport restrictions at PNQ did not allow them to do that.
Is that true?

I think PNQ doesn't have long enough runways to accommodate the heavies. Also, the airport is shared with the Indian Air Force which creates problem in schedules as well.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:10 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I think you missed the "premium heavy" qualifier.


I don't miss anything. That is why there is Business and First Class in widebodies. How long is a DEL-PNQ flight? 2 hours?

So for someone connecting from, let's say, London, how is LHR-FRA-PNQ more convenient than LHR-DEL-PNQ?


Ya, that's why G650s are selling like hot cakes, even getting a new engine and wide body sales are slumping.

A sustainable route profitability model has to be "viable on Y, profitable on auxiliary, premium pax can come along if they are really paying cash".

The old model of "viable on premium, cattle can come along" is long gone.

Keep in mind FFPs are making a profit by selling miles, not from reward travel.
 
DTWLAX
Topic Author
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:27 pm

sabby wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
I read somewhere that at one point LH wanted to use the A330 to fly to PNQ but the airport restrictions at PNQ did not allow them to do that.
Is that true?

I think PNQ doesn't have long enough runways to accommodate the heavies. Also, the airport is shared with the Indian Air Force which creates problem in schedules as well.

Yes that is what I meant by airport restrictions.

The new airport plan for PNQ has been stuck in government limbo for years. Do not know when there will be any movement for building a new airport in Pune.
 
SCQ83
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:36 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Ya, that's why G650s are selling like hot cakes, even getting a new engine and wide body sales are slumping.

A sustainable route profitability model has to be "viable on Y, profitable on auxiliary, premium pax can come along if they are really paying cash".

The old model of "viable on premium, cattle can come along" is long gone.

Keep in mind FFPs are making a profit by selling miles, not from reward travel.


A G650 is a private jet that offers maximum flexibility. We are talking about a commercial B737. Apples and oranges.

How can PrivatAir's 3 weekly flight can compare on flexibility with a G650 or multiple daily connections from Europe/US via DEL/BOM? Not to mention the fuel stop on the way back.

That is why those "odd" premium routes are condemned to die. Like the famous LCY-JFK or the ill-attempted LHR-DOH on Qatar's A319 premium configuration. It is about convenience (number of flights and schedule).
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:00 pm

sabby wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
I read somewhere that at one point LH wanted to use the A330 to fly to PNQ but the airport restrictions at PNQ did not allow them to do that.
Is that true?

I think PNQ doesn't have long enough runways to accommodate the heavies. Also, the airport is shared with the Indian Air Force which creates problem in schedules as well.


European airlines tend to arrive in India in the midnight however. That said, the switch to PrivatAir was because an LH A333 had to make a fuel stop because of payload penalties.
 
DTWLAX
Topic Author
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:52 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
sabby wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
I read somewhere that at one point LH wanted to use the A330 to fly to PNQ but the airport restrictions at PNQ did not allow them to do that.
Is that true?

I think PNQ doesn't have long enough runways to accommodate the heavies. Also, the airport is shared with the Indian Air Force which creates problem in schedules as well.


European airlines tend to arrive in India in the midnight however. That said, the switch to PrivatAir was because an LH A333 had to make a fuel stop because of payload penalties.

Privatair operated a B737 into PNQ which required to make a fuel stop, not a LH A333. Before that it was a Privatair A319 that used to fly the route. LH never operated a A333 into PNQ.
 
TC957
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:06 pm

PNQ could make a good route for TK maybe, well within range of their upcoming MAX8 fleet or A321NEO's.
 
sabby
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:51 am

TC957 wrote:
PNQ could make a good route for TK maybe, well within range of their upcoming MAX8 fleet or A321NEO's.

TK have exhausted their India bilateral limit which has slim chance to get increased.
 
pnqiad
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:02 am

LH had increased FRA-PNQ to 6x / week fairly recently IIRC. So I suspect this is more driven by operational reasons than commercial. Hopefully it gets reinstated in winter schedule....

Edit:
Found elsewhere that apparently PrivatAir which operated the route has gone bust and all their planes are stored in different places. So definitely an operational issue than commercial.
 
TC957
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:18 am

Not all stored....BA are currently using D-AWBB for flights out of LGW.
 
Someone83
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:09 am

Does this mean there are no more flight operated by Privatair for Lufthansa?
 
pnqiad
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:01 am

So LH is resuming FRA-PNQ with the Winter schedule but apparently with an LH mainline A319 - which basically means no real business class seat and an excruciating 11 hrs with a stop over in EACH direction now rather than only westbound before. No winder bloggers are tagging it as the worst flight launched ever....
 
lhrsfosyd
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:05 am

LH could really use mid haul fleet to operate out of FRA and MUC.

ADD, ALA, ASB, AMM, TSE, BAH, GYD, BEY, CAI, DMM, EBL, DME, SSG, TLV, PHC, PNQ.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: LH Discontinues FRA-PNQ

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:17 am

pnqiad wrote:
So LH is resuming FRA-PNQ with the Winter schedule but apparently with an LH mainline A319 - which basically means no real business class seat and an excruciating 11 hrs with a stop over in EACH direction now rather than only westbound before. No winder bloggers are tagging it as the worst flight launched ever....

There’s a thread about the resumption of flights: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1402445

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