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FATFlyer
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MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:27 pm

UA will restart UAX service between Monterey, CA (MRY) and Denver (DEN). The route was last operated in 2014.
http://www.montereyherald.com/business/20180720/monterey-to-denver-non-stop-coming-to-monterey-regional-airport

Flights start October 4.

Service is already bookable and operated on CR2s. The schedule is
dep MRY 7:38am arr DEN 11:20am
dep MRY 1:03pm arr DEN 4:45pm

dep DEN 11:25am arr MRY 1:30pm
dep DEN 7:00pm arr MRY 9:05pm
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Cubsrule
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:32 pm

That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AirFiero
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:37 pm

I wonder why they would start this after the summer travel season?
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:43 pm

There was some talk about whether they'd restart this flight or start STS-DEN. Bummer STS was left out.
 
Judge1310
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:43 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.



It's the right sized equipment for such a route to restart and stoke the market for eventual upgauging. :roll:
 
Judge1310
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:46 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I wonder why they would start this after the summer travel season?


What is Colorado known worldwide for in the autumn and winter seasons...I'll give you a minute to think about that one... :roll:
 
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LAXintl
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:49 pm

Remnants of SCASD bid. The community is funding over $500,000+ annually towards the flights.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AirFiero
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:52 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I wonder why they would start this after the summer travel season?


What is Colorado known worldwide for in the autumn and winter seasons...I'll give you a minute to think about that one... :roll:


Twice daily on a long and thin route from a smaller market. But don’t let logic and reason get in the way of your condescending rolling of eyes.
 
AirFiero
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:52 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Remnants of SCASD bid. The community is funding over $500,000+ annually towards the flights.


Ah! Now we have a more complete picture.
 
Judge1310
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:02 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I wonder why they would start this after the summer travel season?


What is Colorado known worldwide for in the autumn and winter seasons...I'll give you a minute to think about that one... :roll:


Twice daily on a long and thin route from a smaller market. But don’t let logic and reason get in the way of your condescending rolling of eyes.


Hehe, okay, I'll let you *not* realise that the MRY market is an affluent one and that people who can afford to would be willing to pay a premium to get access to the Denver hub to connect to all the ski areas of the Rocky Mountains for which service is offered by UA,

No eye roll ;-)
 
Cubsrule
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:09 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

What is Colorado known worldwide for in the autumn and winter seasons...I'll give you a minute to think about that one... :roll:


Twice daily on a long and thin route from a smaller market. But don’t let logic and reason get in the way of your condescending rolling of eyes.


Hehe, okay, I'll let you *not* realise that the MRY market is an affluent one and that people who can afford to would be willing to pay a premium to get access to the Denver hub to connect to all the ski areas of the Rocky Mountains for which service is offered by UA,

No eye roll ;-)


So these folks would rather spend three hours on a 50-seater than drive up to SJC (which is much easier than it used to be) and have many more options and the availability of F and Y+?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Judge1310
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:24 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Twice daily on a long and thin route from a smaller market. But don’t let logic and reason get in the way of your condescending rolling of eyes.


Hehe, okay, I'll let you *not* realise that the MRY market is an affluent one and that people who can afford to would be willing to pay a premium to get access to the Denver hub to connect to all the ski areas of the Rocky Mountains for which service is offered by UA,

No eye roll ;-)


So these folks would rather spend three hours on a 50-seater than drive up to SJC (which is much easier than it used to be) and have many more options and the availability of F and Y+?


Actually, yeah. Just like the Santa Rosa service from Napa Valley and Colorado Springs to Denver, those who can afford to would be far willing to pay a premium to commence travel at smaller (FBO-like) airports and transit through a hub than to schlep hours to a local hub with all their accoutrements and have to deal with check-in there. Would a CR7 have been nice to start? Sure! But a CR2 to start is fine as it can be upgauged should the demand warrant it. :)
 
Cubsrule
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:04 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

Hehe, okay, I'll let you *not* realise that the MRY market is an affluent one and that people who can afford to would be willing to pay a premium to get access to the Denver hub to connect to all the ski areas of the Rocky Mountains for which service is offered by UA,

No eye roll ;-)


So these folks would rather spend three hours on a 50-seater than drive up to SJC (which is much easier than it used to be) and have many more options and the availability of F and Y+?


Actually, yeah. Just like the Santa Rosa service from Napa Valley and Colorado Springs to Denver, those who can afford to would be far willing to pay a premium to commence travel at smaller (FBO-like) airports and transit through a hub than to schlep hours to a local hub with all their accoutrements and have to deal with check-in there. Would a CR7 have been nice to start? Sure! But a CR2 to start is fine as it can be upgauged should the demand warrant it. :)


STS and MRY aren’t really apples-to-apples traffic-wise though. My family loves Carmel (which is not cheap for inbound tourists btw) and I can remember lots of traffic jams in Santa Cruz driving down from the Bay Area. That’s largely ancient history, though, and many more people can access SJC conveniently than even 10 years ago.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:18 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

So these folks would rather spend three hours on a 50-seater than drive up to SJC (which is much easier than it used to be) and have many more options and the availability of F and Y+?


Actually, yeah. Just like the Santa Rosa service from Napa Valley and Colorado Springs to Denver, those who can afford to would be far willing to pay a premium to commence travel at smaller (FBO-like) airports and transit through a hub than to schlep hours to a local hub with all their accoutrements and have to deal with check-in there. Would a CR7 have been nice to start? Sure! But a CR2 to start is fine as it can be upgauged should the demand warrant it. :)


STS and MRY aren’t really apples-to-apples traffic-wise though. My family loves Carmel (which is not cheap for inbound tourists btw) and I can remember lots of traffic jams in Santa Cruz driving down from the Bay Area. That’s largely ancient history, though, and many more people can access SJC conveniently than even 10 years ago.


You don’t have to go through Santa Cruz if you are driving from MRY to SJC. That’s the scenic route but much longer. To your point there are often traffic jams on summer weekends to Santa Cruz; also between SJC and MRY on the direct route.

If someone wants to sit in traffic for 2-3 hours because a CR2 isn’t good enough for them, it’s your choice. I’d be happy to have the non-stop.
Last edited by BoeingGuy on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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intotheair
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:19 pm

i think the amount of air service that the ski resorts generate into DEN is highly overstated on this site. DEN is a major city in its own right, and I'd be willing to bet money that the majority of all passengers going to DEN plan to spend time in the Denver metro area or are connecting onward. Not that there isn't any ski traffic, but I think the amount of traffic that the ski industry generates is highly overarticulated on here.

With that said, it is nice to see this flight return. I think you can look to SBP-DEN to see what UA is trying to accomplish here. MRY has more spillage to SJC than SBP does, but with these flights, UA can offer people the convenience of departing from the local airport. DEN also allows for a lot more efficient itineraries to the midwest and east coast.

The only thing I'm surprised about is that the morning MRY-DEN will miss the 9-10am bank at DEN. I would have expected a 5:30 am departure from MRY.
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AirFiero
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:29 pm

intotheair wrote:
i think the amount of air service that the ski resorts generate into DEN is highly overstated on this site. DEN is a major city in its own right, and I'd be willing to bet money that the majority of all passengers going to DEN plan to spend time in the Denver metro area or are connecting onward. Not that there isn't any ski traffic, but I think the amount of traffic that the ski industry generates is highly overarticulated on here.

With that said, it is nice to see this flight return. I think you can look to SBP-DEN to see what UA is trying to accomplish here. MRY has more spillage to SJC than SBP does, but with these flights, UA can offer people the convenience of departing from the local airport. DEN also allows for a lot more efficient itineraries to the midwest and east coast.

The only thing I'm surprised about is that the morning MRY-DEN will miss the 9-10am bank at DEN. I would have expected a 5:30 am departure from MRY.


I’m happy to see MRY get better service. I’d bet that most of the passengers would be connecting onward.

By the way, the traffic on 101 is getting really bad in spots between the Monterey area and San Jose, even on weekends. Take a look at google maps with traffic enabled and see what I mean.
 
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intotheair
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:02 pm

AirFiero wrote:
intotheair wrote:
i think the amount of air service that the ski resorts generate into DEN is highly overstated on this site. DEN is a major city in its own right, and I'd be willing to bet money that the majority of all passengers going to DEN plan to spend time in the Denver metro area or are connecting onward. Not that there isn't any ski traffic, but I think the amount of traffic that the ski industry generates is highly overarticulated on here.

With that said, it is nice to see this flight return. I think you can look to SBP-DEN to see what UA is trying to accomplish here. MRY has more spillage to SJC than SBP does, but with these flights, UA can offer people the convenience of departing from the local airport. DEN also allows for a lot more efficient itineraries to the midwest and east coast.

The only thing I'm surprised about is that the morning MRY-DEN will miss the 9-10am bank at DEN. I would have expected a 5:30 am departure from MRY.


I’m happy to see MRY get better service. I’d bet that most of the passengers would be connecting onward.

By the way, the traffic on 101 is getting really bad in spots between the Monterey area and San Jose, even on weekends. Take a look at google maps with traffic enabled and see what I mean.


Oh absolutely. I drive between San Luis Obispo and SF about once a month or so on weekends. I hate that section north of Prunedale, and then the highway isn't wide enough from Gilroy to San Jose. 17 is also a difficult one when I swing by my friend's place in Capitola on the way back, though it probably still makes more sense for Santa Cruz County people to shlep up to SJC than it would be to drive down to MRY.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
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MIflyer12
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:16 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

Hehe, okay, I'll let you *not* realise that the MRY market is an affluent one and that people who can afford to would be willing to pay a premium to get access to the Denver hub to connect to all the ski areas of the Rocky Mountains for which service is offered by UA,

No eye roll ;-)


So these folks would rather spend three hours on a 50-seater than drive up to SJC (which is much easier than it used to be) and have many more options and the availability of F and Y+?


Actually, yeah.


If that were true they wouldn't need community subsidy money.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:24 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

Hehe, okay, I'll let you *not* realise that the MRY market is an affluent one and that people who can afford to would be willing to pay a premium to get access to the Denver hub to connect to all the ski areas of the Rocky Mountains for which service is offered by UA,

No eye roll ;-)


So these folks would rather spend three hours on a 50-seater than drive up to SJC (which is much easier than it used to be) and have many more options and the availability of F and Y+?


Actually, yeah. Just like the Santa Rosa service from Napa Valley and Colorado Springs to Denver, those who can afford to would be far willing to pay a premium to commence travel at smaller (FBO-like) airports and transit through a hub than to schlep hours to a local hub with all their accoutrements and have to deal with check-in there. Would a CR7 have been nice to start? Sure! But a CR2 to start is fine as it can be upgauged should the demand warrant it. :)


?? There is no Santa Rosa service to/from the Napa Valley, they are right next to each other. The service area for Santa Rosa is north of 500,000 people so there is a good chance the service would be supported. UAX does have a couple of flights to SFO which for domestic services going east often result in long lay overs or double connects. A one plane change via DEN would be great though UAX might not have the a/c to support the move at this point.

Both MRY and STS are destination spots and DEN or SLC are logical choices for service when the market supports such a move.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:58 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


So UA should use a 319 and lose there ass flying 70 open seats?

Or should they just not fly the rote at all because you don’t like the airplane?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:10 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


So UA should use a 319 and lose there ass flying 70 open seats?

Or should they just not fly the rote at all because you don’t like the airplane?


The CR7 and E75 are both more than capable of operating the route.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
CHOWahoo
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:18 pm

As a relatively frequent business traveler to MRY this is going to make my life easier. Looks like some great connections in DEN from RIC. This was either a 2 stop flight to MRY or a one stop and drive to SJC for me previously. Several hours worth of time saved.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:27 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


So UA should use a 319 and lose there ass flying 70 open seats?

Or should they just not fly the rote at all because you don’t like the airplane?


The CR7 and E75 are both more than capable of operating the route.


Sure if you want a mid 60% Load Factor. That 20-26 seat difference is a lot of added capacity
 
mcdu
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:30 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


If the route has as much demand as you perceive why isn’t WN in the market to one their larger hubs (DEN) with a 737?

The more things change at WN the more they stay the same.
 
Judge1310
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:31 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

So these folks would rather spend three hours on a 50-seater than drive up to SJC (which is much easier than it used to be) and have many more options and the availability of F and Y+?


Actually, yeah. Just like the Santa Rosa service from Napa Valley and Colorado Springs to Denver, those who can afford to would be far willing to pay a premium to commence travel at smaller (FBO-like) airports and transit through a hub than to schlep hours to a local hub with all their accoutrements and have to deal with check-in there. Would a CR7 have been nice to start? Sure! But a CR2 to start is fine as it can be upgauged should the demand warrant it. :)


?? There is no Santa Rosa service to/from the Napa Valley, they are right next to each other. The service area for Santa Rosa is north of 500,000 people so there is a good chance the service would be supported. UAX does have a couple of flights to SFO which for domestic services going east often result in long lay overs or double connects. A one plane change via DEN would be great though UAX might not have the a/c to support the move at this point.

Both MRY and STS are destination spots and DEN or SLC are logical choices for service when the market supports such a move.


I'm very well aware of where Santa Rosa is... most others realised that the phrase was meant as Santa Rosa (airport/town) from (within) Napa Valley (region) to SFO (and potentially DEN in the future)...
 
Judge1310
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:33 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


So UA should use a 319 and lose there ass flying 70 open seats?

Or should they just not fly the rote at all because you don’t like the airplane?



Haha, THANK YOU! :thumbsup:
 
Cubsrule
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:43 pm

mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


If the route has as much demand as you perceive why isn’t WN in the market to one their larger hubs (DEN) with a 737?

The more things change at WN the more they stay the same.


The contrast I was thinking of was more with Delta, who no longer flies CR2s on 1,000 mile routes.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jetmatt777
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:45 pm

United is going to continue with these creative additions that will make Denver a very robust hub. It’s already very well connected. I’m sure we can expect to see more of these small markets added.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:52 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:

If the route has as much demand as you perceive why isn’t WN in the market to one their larger hubs (DEN) with a 737?

The more things change at WN the more they stay the same.


The contrast I was thinking of was more with Delta, who no longer flies CR2s on 1,000 mile routes.


So then I guess DL wouldn’t even fly the route if it couldn’t sustain a 70 seater?

So who’s correct? UA for connecting the 2 cities even though it’s a long 50 seat flight? Or DL for not flying the route at all?


I think the point is more that the trip costs of the 70-seater are not that much higher and the revenue potential is significantly higher.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:54 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mcdu wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


If the route has as much demand as you perceive why isn’t WN in the market to one their larger hubs (DEN) with a 737?

The more things change at WN the more they stay the same.


The contrast I was thinking of was more with Delta, who no longer flies CR2s on 1,000 mile routes.


So then I guess DL wouldn’t even fly the route if it couldn’t sustain a 70 seater?

So who’s correct? UA for connecting the 2 cities even though it’s a long 50 seat flight? Or DL for not flying the route at all?
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:08 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The contrast I was thinking of was more with Delta, who no longer flies CR2s on 1,000 mile routes.


So then I guess DL wouldn’t even fly the route if it couldn’t sustain a 70 seater?

So who’s correct? UA for connecting the 2 cities even though it’s a long 50 seat flight? Or DL for not flying the route at all?


I think the point is more that the trip costs of the 70-seater are not that much higher and the revenue potential is significantly higher.


I can agree with that.

However how many seats do they have to fill on average for a 70 seater to be cost neutral to a 50 seater? And what will the average fare have to be to fill the needed seats to make the 70 seater cost neutral?
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:11 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

So then I guess DL wouldn’t even fly the route if it couldn’t sustain a 70 seater?

So who’s correct? UA for connecting the 2 cities even though it’s a long 50 seat flight? Or DL for not flying the route at all?


I think the point is more that the trip costs of the 70-seater are not that much higher and the revenue potential is significantly higher.


I can agree with that.

However how many seats do they have to fill on average for a 70 seater to be cost neutral to a 50 seater? And what will the average fare have to be to fill the needed seats to make the 70 seater cost neutral?


Or maybe they take the $500k grant, try it with a lowly CR2 and if they can fill it they upgauge once it succeeds.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:14 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The contrast I was thinking of was more with Delta, who no longer flies CR2s on 1,000 mile routes.


So then I guess DL wouldn’t even fly the route if it couldn’t sustain a 70 seater?

So who’s correct? UA for connecting the 2 cities even though it’s a long 50 seat flight? Or DL for not flying the route at all?


I think the point is more that the trip costs of the 70-seater are not that much higher and the revenue potential is significantly higher.


But what is the opportunity cost of using an E175? That means a heavier market would have to get downgraded to a 50 seater. It also means removing first class seats from the stronger market. Even though trip cost can be similar, United may make more money on the 26 extra seats in a different market.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:15 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Remnants of SCASD bid. The community is funding over $500,000+ annually towards the flights.

Usually the newspapers note that if true. Yes, MRY was unsuccessful getting their SCASD, but I highly doubt they put a deal together in the 4 days since those were announced.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:17 pm

Cubsrule wrote:

That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


True that but for all the talk about how great the E-Jets are I took one from MIA to STL and I swear it felt like an eternity. There are limits to how much travel time one wants to spend on ANY RJ. But its a start...
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
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intotheair
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Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:21 pm

After watching several of these DEN-west coast small markets, I get the sense that UA just doesn't have enough 70-76 sweaters to go around, so they file everything as CR2s (because they certainly have more than enough of those) and then upgauge a few weeks out depending on demand.

UA started out SBP-DEN last year as 1x CR2, then added another frequency and upped them both to E175s, and now it's been downgauged to all CR2s with the exception of a CR7 on the morning departure. I hate the CR2 as much as anyone, but I'd rather suck it up and be there in two hours than connect onto a marginally more comfortable CR9 on AA.

It's bigger markets like BUR-DEN where UA has no excuse flying a CR2. When I lived in LA, I consciously booked away from that because there were so many better options.
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Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:22 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

So then I guess DL wouldn’t even fly the route if it couldn’t sustain a 70 seater?

So who’s correct? UA for connecting the 2 cities even though it’s a long 50 seat flight? Or DL for not flying the route at all?


I think the point is more that the trip costs of the 70-seater are not that much higher and the revenue potential is significantly higher.


But what is the opportunity cost of using an E175? That means a heavier market would have to get downgraded to a 50 seater. It also means removing first class seats from the stronger market. Even though trip cost can be similar, United may make more money on the 26 extra seats in a different market.


Again, DL - who generally performs a lot better than UA - seems to have worked this out. Are there some markets that you think DL would be in but for the 750-mile rule?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14547
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:24 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


True that but for all the talk about how great the E-Jets are I took one from MIA to STL and I swear it felt like an eternity. There are limits to how much travel time one wants to spend on ANY RJ. But its a start...


Fair, but I’m also not 100 percent sure the CR2 can do DEN-MRY without restrictions year-round, especially if they need an alternate going west.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4321
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:32 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I think the point is more that the trip costs of the 70-seater are not that much higher and the revenue potential is significantly higher.


But what is the opportunity cost of using an E175? That means a heavier market would have to get downgraded to a 50 seater. It also means removing first class seats from the stronger market. Even though trip cost can be similar, United may make more money on the 26 extra seats in a different market.


Again, DL - who generally performs a lot better than UA - seems to have worked this out. Are there some markets that you think DL would be in but for the 750-mile rule?


It really doesn’t matter? United is aggressively growing Denver and adding new small markets. Delta isn’t doing that out of any of their hubs. The west is more spread out than the east, and Delta is geographically not in a position where they need to fly 50 seaters beyond 750 miles. If Delta needed to they would.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2231
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:55 pm

UA is capped on the number of 76 seaters they can operate which in turn limits opportunities to open new markets. The CR2 isn't a lot of fun but its better than no flight if there are decent connections on the other end.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:27 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I think the point is more that the trip costs of the 70-seater are not that much higher and the revenue potential is significantly higher.


But what is the opportunity cost of using an E175? That means a heavier market would have to get downgraded to a 50 seater. It also means removing first class seats from the stronger market. Even though trip cost can be similar, United may make more money on the 26 extra seats in a different market.


Again, DL - who generally performs a lot better than UA - seems to have worked this out. Are there some markets that you think DL would be in but for the 750-mile rule?


Delta does X therefore it must be superior. Good logic.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1814
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:38 pm

Wow, a lot of comments questioning the route or plane.

Maybe I'm old, but I remember when UA flew 727s from MRY to both DEN and ORD. It's great to see a route like this come back, even if a CR2 and it's subsidized...hopefully it'll stick.

Distance for a CR2? It's about the same distance as the UAX CRs that fly DEN to San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, San Jose, Redmond OR, .....

Time of year to start the route? I can see traffic going both ways. As anyone who has lived in parts of the northern California coast knows, fall and winter can have better weather than summer.

Also, looking at the mid-day arrival from DEN, that plane then continues on to SFO or LAX, which are mainly CR2 now.

Whey doesn't WN serve the market? Sure, it might support two CR2s, but WN generally wants seven or eight daily flights to start a new city.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14547
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:57 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:

But what is the opportunity cost of using an E175? That means a heavier market would have to get downgraded to a 50 seater. It also means removing first class seats from the stronger market. Even though trip cost can be similar, United may make more money on the 26 extra seats in a different market.


Again, DL - who generally performs a lot better than UA - seems to have worked this out. Are there some markets that you think DL would be in but for the 750-mile rule?


Delta does X therefore it must be superior. Good logic.


UA’s use of 50-seaters is quite different from what AA or DL do. UA’s financial results have lagged AA and DL. Maybe it’s a coincidence but maybe not. UA has gotten better (50 seaters on stuff like BNA-IAH or IAD-DTW were ridiculous), but there’s still work left to do.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2453
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:00 am

I am not too hip on United's schedule but from I understand UA has nonstop flights from SFO/LAX to several major western ski resorts so it seems like the MRY ski crowd could fly to SFO/LAX and then connect onwards to one of UA's ski resort flights. Good to see service between MRY and DEN getting restarted though.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:27 am

Cubsrule wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Again, DL - who generally performs a lot better than UA - seems to have worked this out. Are there some markets that you think DL would be in but for the 750-mile rule?


Delta does X therefore it must be superior. Good logic.


UA’s use of 50-seaters is quite different from what AA or DL do. UA’s financial results have lagged AA and DL. Maybe it’s a coincidence but maybe not. UA has gotten better (50 seaters on stuff like BNA-IAH or IAD-DTW were ridiculous), but there’s still work left to do.


Your right how foolish of United. Let’s cancel the route. People of MRY should connect through SFO or LAX or drive hours to a bigger airport.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:41 am

Cubsrule wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

That’s a long flight on a CR2. The more things change, the more UA stays the same.


True that but for all the talk about how great the E-Jets are I took one from MIA to STL and I swear it felt like an eternity. There are limits to how much travel time one wants to spend on ANY RJ. But its a start...


Fair, but I’m also not 100 percent sure the CR2 can do DEN-MRY without restrictions year-round, especially if they need an alternate going west.


Aren’t there numerous alternates in the area? SJC, SBP, SXM come to mind.
 
cschleic
Posts: 1814
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:53 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

True that but for all the talk about how great the E-Jets are I took one from MIA to STL and I swear it felt like an eternity. There are limits to how much travel time one wants to spend on ANY RJ. But its a start...


Fair, but I’m also not 100 percent sure the CR2 can do DEN-MRY without restrictions year-round, especially if they need an alternate going west.


Aren’t there numerous alternates in the area? SJC, SBP, SXM come to mind.


SXM would be fun but probably a little far in the other direction....
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:56 am

cschleic wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Fair, but I’m also not 100 percent sure the CR2 can do DEN-MRY without restrictions year-round, especially if they need an alternate going west.


Aren’t there numerous alternates in the area? SJC, SBP, SXM come to mind.


SXM would be fun but probably a little far in the other direction....


Yeah I’d love to be at the Sunset Bar and watch that CR2 make a low pass over the beach.

Of course I meant SMX.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:02 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Aren’t there numerous alternates in the area? SJC, SBP, SXM come to mind.


I wouldn't consider SMX (assuming you didn't mean SXM) or SBP alternates to MRY; both are over 100 miles away and not exactly a straight shot (PCH winds its way through the coastal mountains there). SJC is the alternate but MRY supports a revenue premium and already does receive service from numerous other airports.

Rdh3e wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Remnants of SCASD bid. The community is funding over $500,000+ annually towards the flights.

Usually the newspapers note that if true. Yes, MRY was unsuccessful getting their SCASD, but I highly doubt they put a deal together in the 4 days since those were announced.

Actually, it wouldn't be surprising. Most SCASD grants have airline backing/commitment behind them and if the funding from a federal level falls through but the local funding can still make it work; its not hard to work up a deal.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: MRY-DEN On UAX To Return October 4

Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:17 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:

True that but for all the talk about how great the E-Jets are I took one from MIA to STL and I swear it felt like an eternity. There are limits to how much travel time one wants to spend on ANY RJ. But its a start...


Fair, but I’m also not 100 percent sure the CR2 can do DEN-MRY without restrictions year-round, especially if they need an alternate going west.


Aren’t there numerous alternates in the area? SJC, SBP, SXM come to mind.


I think that SJC is the natural alternative in that there are tons of options on apparently better aircraft - I’m happy on anything that can leave the ground. SBP just seems a bit far and at that point, you might as well just head to SFO. Mind you, I grew up in San Luis Obispo and I love the airport there so it’d be fun either way. SMX had service to LA on Mokulele but I think that’s gone and it left little in the way of connection opportunities. I may be wrong, however, but I’m relatively sure there is now only Allegiant to LAS a few days per week.

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