iadguy73
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:55 pm

Internally the company has stated it is happy with the performance of both PRG and BUD and both should return next year. Loads out of both are usually heavy particularly BUD.[/quote]

Both routes are B763 service and those birds are pretty ragged and I don't see how they can bring these back next year with the same aircrafts. PRG was cancelled 3 times in a 2-week span in July. I don't know if by next summer they are going to have anything to replace these aging B763s.
 
soflaflyer
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:08 pm

iadguy73 wrote:
Internally the company has stated it is happy with the performance of both PRG and BUD and both should return next year. Loads out of both are usually heavy particularly BUD.


Both routes are B763 service and those birds are pretty ragged and I don't see how they can bring these back next year with the same aircrafts. PRG was cancelled 3 times in a 2-week span in July. I don't know if by next summer they are going to have anything to replace these aging B763s.[/quote]

Unfortunately it looks like most of the 763 will be around next summer as well. All except 5 are to be retired in 2020.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:22 pm

TCX TATL from MAN in S19 (credit to user001).

LAX goes 2 weekly and starts one month later. (Affect of VS starting the route on the exact same days at TCX)

BOS appears to have been cut (again VS increased flights)

JFK goes from 7 to 8 weekly with 2 flights on Mondays

CUN goes from 6 weekly to 9 weekly

MCO goes from 9 weekly to 13 weekly, with 3 flights on Sundays

SEA goes from 2 weekly to 3 weekly

MBJ resumed as a 1 weekly flight

SFO has days of operation changed but remains 3 weekly

So, MAN-BOS is clear for VS (possible up to 4x weekly) and it seems they have traction on LAX. I hope VS can make these year round and add a couple of rotations in peak summer.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:09 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
TCX TATL from MAN in S19 (credit to user001).

LAX goes 2 weekly and starts one month later. (Affect of VS starting the route on the exact same days at TCX)

BOS appears to have been cut (again VS increased flights)

JFK goes from 7 to 8 weekly with 2 flights on Mondays

CUN goes from 6 weekly to 9 weekly

MCO goes from 9 weekly to 13 weekly, with 3 flights on Sundays

SEA goes from 2 weekly to 3 weekly

MBJ resumed as a 1 weekly flight

SFO has days of operation changed but remains 3 weekly

So, MAN-BOS is clear for VS (possible up to 4x weekly) and it seems they have traction on LAX. I hope VS can make these year round and add a couple of rotations in peak summer.


Announcement (states JFK as daily).

https://www.thomascookgroup.com/news/30 ... e?ref=Home
 
by738
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:09 pm

I presume no chance of aircraft upguages on any of the EDI UA or AA routes? Less likely on now single daily EWR given the pax shift to new IAD. AA JFK probably still not running anywhere near full (suspect DL outperforms) so doubt we'd see a up to an AA 763. Not sure they do a lot of small market international summer 763 from JFK?
787 probably too much on these sorts of routes and smaller seasonal international not normally a focus for new aircraft like these.
Would be surprised if EDI AA switched from JFK to PHL for S19, dont really see need, and would dilute things too much to have both.
Looks like IAD-EDI UA should do well again for S19 - ? extended summer season / year round
 
FSDan
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:38 pm

EW should be getting a few more 343s from LH (ex-CityLine) by S19, right? Up to 6 total from the current 2? Maybe we'll see a return of LAX-DUS or JFK-TXL.
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:44 pm

LAS, MCO populations do not matter and not comparable to most cities. They are heavy heavy tourism areas. The demand to LAS is almost all Demand traffic, the local area provides little. Comparing population to LAS is comparing apples to oranges. MCO and LAS support flights that no other city can support.

I would expect more ULCC announcements, Aer Lingus, Level, Rogue among the big ones. We might even see some legacy declines as the ULCC bite into the yield. The legacies will focus more on hub traffic
 
by738
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:54 pm

What will WestJet be doing with their new 787s- will they be like for like replacements for old 767s or open up new TA routes? Quite big for any non LGW regional routes I would have thought but perhaps peak summer - if TS can do it to eg YYC.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:00 pm

by738 wrote:
What will WestJet be doing with their new 787s- will they be like for like replacements for old 767s or open up new TA routes? Quite big for any non LGW regional routes I would have thought but perhaps peak summer - if TS can do it to eg YYC.


Don't forget that Westjet is in a joint venture with Air France-KLM. They don't have to serve all the regions in Europe by themselves, they can let their partners do that for them. I do expect them to fly to Paris and perhaps Amsterdam as these are the Air France-KLM hubs from where they can take the passengers further. Amsterdam is a bit uncertain due to the slot shortage, but might be possible in the future.

Gatwick on the other hand isn't that logical. It's London of course which draws a lot of passengers, but otherwise it's a dead end. They don't have a feeder airline there. They might drop Gatwick and funnel their London passengers through Paris.
 
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accargofra
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:06 am

Unfortunately it looks like most of the 763 will be around next summer as well. All except 5 are to be retired in 2020.


your are talking about the remaining (AC) mainline B763.

No replacement for the 26 (RV) B673 fleet announced yet
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:17 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised at no BA PDX-LHR.

Why?

(1) PDX-LHR is in no way a particularly large LON market, (2) it already has a full-service airline offering the LHR route nonstop, and (3) Portland also has multiple other European nonstops which would compete against it for connections.

It's not to say that BA would never consider the route, but being the 4th-wheel to a secondary market that already has both strong connection and nonstop competition--- likely isn't high on BA's priority list.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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adambrau
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:31 am

DLHAM wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Hoping that Delta finally starts ATL-HAM. If I am not mistaken HAM is the biggest city in the EU that Delta doesnt serve. Big potential they are not taking advantage of.


DL used to fly ATL-HAM.

I'm surprised at no BA PDX-LHR.


Yes they served HAM 1989-1995 and 1998-2000, from ATL and also JFK from 1991-1995.
Now they are gone since 18 years.


I flew TXL-JFK in 1988 on PA101 - TXL-HAM-LHR on a 727 and then the 747 to JFK. I remember seeing a DL L10 or L15 in HAM taking off just before us and I thought to myself this was not good for PA! I have no idea where the DL aircraft was headed but maybe ATL...
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DLHAM
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:43 am

adambrau wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

DL used to fly ATL-HAM.

I'm surprised at no BA PDX-LHR.


Yes they served HAM 1989-1995 and 1998-2000, from ATL and also JFK from 1991-1995.
Now they are gone since 18 years.


I flew TXL-JFK in 1988 on PA101 - TXL-HAM-LHR on a 727 and then the 747 to JFK. I remember seeing a DL L10 or L15 in HAM taking off just before us and I thought to myself this was not good for PA! I have no idea where the DL aircraft was headed but maybe ATL...


Must have been 1989, in May 1989 Delta launched Hamburg, ATL-LGW-HAM with a L1011. The same year just 6 days later American launched JFK-BRU-HAM, yes PanAm must have had hard time then. But AA dropped that flight later, PA stayed until its end, also serving JFK-HAM nonstop, but they were not that popular these days. Also Lufthansa started HAM-EWR in early 1990.

In early 1991 Delta switched the flight to a nonstop on the 767 and then overtook the JFK flight from PanAm in October/November 1991. For years there we're two Delta flights from HAM then. Now not even one.

I just made a list, was just curious, of the biggest EU cities.
An incredible Number of 23 of Deltas EU Destinations are smaller(!) than Hamburg, just five are bigger.
The same goes for Vienna by the way, also not served by Delta and having almost exactly the same population as Hamburg.
Last edited by DLHAM on Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Blerg
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:46 am

Air Serbia is set to announce flights from Belgrade to Toronto. They were deciding between Chicago and Toronto but in the end they went for the latter. They did increase JFK from 5 to 6 weekly this summer.
 
soflaflyer
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:59 pm

accargofra wrote:
Unfortunately it looks like most of the 763 will be around next summer as well. All except 5 are to be retired in 2020.


your are talking about the remaining (AC) mainline B763.

No replacement for the 26 (RV) B673 fleet announced yet


No, I was referring to the AA 763 fleet. I am not familiar with the retirement schedule for AC.
 
msycajun
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:09 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised at no BA PDX-LHR.

Why?

(1) PDX-LHR is in no way a particularly large LON market, (2) it already has a full-service airline offering the LHR route nonstop, and (3) Portland also has multiple other European nonstops which would compete against it for connections.

It's not to say that BA would never consider the route, but being the 4th-wheel to a secondary market that already has both strong connection and nonstop competition--- likely isn't high on BA's priority list.


A few weeks ago I would have agreed, but now I'll be watching to see what happens in PIT. Not exactly the same situation as BA is not going up against another carrier on the route there, but still a market with a lot of Europe service already. I think they'll be watching to see if anyone else drops or reduces there (I'm personally hoping DL or DE sends some capacity you-know-where). The advantage PDX has is that many of its European routes are supported with a small hub and BA would be as well.
 
by738
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:46 pm

Seems GLA Delta being downgraded for S19 to domestic 757 with no lieflat biz class. Thats a disappointment as its the best 757 biz class on the market (compare with UA/AA). Think some other routes get these too?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:16 pm

msycajun wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised at no BA PDX-LHR.

Why?

(1) PDX-LHR is in no way a particularly large LON market, (2) it already has a full-service airline offering the LHR route nonstop, and (3) Portland also has multiple other European nonstops which would compete against it for connections.

It's not to say that BA would never consider the route, but being the 4th-wheel to a secondary market that already has both strong connection and nonstop competition--- likely isn't high on BA's priority list.


A few weeks ago I would have agreed, but now I'll be watching to see what happens in PIT. Not exactly the same situation as BA is not going up against another carrier on the route there, but still a market with a lot of Europe service already. I think they'll be watching to see if anyone else drops or reduces there (I'm personally hoping DL or DE sends some capacity you-know-where). The advantage PDX has is that many of its European routes are supported with a small hub and BA would be as well.

Indeed, but as you said, PIT is not quite an analogous situation: as BA still has yet to enter a secondary US market that already has a nonstop to LON and Euro-side connection competition by a full-service carrier.

AUS later gained a competing LON LoCo nonstop, as well as having connections on LoCos.
PIT has a full service connection competitor, but no LON nonstop.

PDX, though a larger domestic market than both, also already has a full-service carrier nonstop to LON, and full-service nonstop Euro-side connection competition, and LoCo connection competition.

....sure anything can happen, but I don't think there's a stretch to say that there's way lower-hanging fruit for BA to pick than that.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
DariusBieber
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:23 pm

We will see SAT get TATL service, which is long overdue.
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af773atmsp
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:31 pm

Norwegian was/is considering MSP, but obviously there are a lot of cities they’re considering. Where they would fly from MSP I don’t know, but I can always hope for one Scandinavian city (OSL, ARN, or CPH).

Other than that all I can see for MSP now is EI to DUB, but only with an aircraft smaller than a 757 that has the range (A321LR maybe? Is EI ordering those?).
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abauds201
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:17 pm

chrisnh wrote:
BOS-AMS on KLM is likely, on top of what DL already does.


Confirmed in the april schedule load, A333 3 weekly
 
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DLHAM
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:22 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
Other than that all I can see for MSP now is EI to DUB, but only with an aircraft smaller than a 757 that has the range (A321LR maybe? Is EI ordering those?).


Aer Lingus will lease A321LRs via ALC. First delivery scheduled for May 2019, four to replace the 757s and four more for expansion. MSP could be a good possibility.
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abauds201
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:35 pm

DLHAM wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Other than that all I can see for MSP now is EI to DUB, but only with an aircraft smaller than a 757 that has the range (A321LR maybe? Is EI ordering those?).


Aer Lingus will lease A321LRs via ALC. First delivery scheduled for May 2019, four to replace the 757s and four more for expansion. MSP could be a good possibility.


I'd be surprised to see MSP on EI before DL. Few connections for EI on the MSP end, and Icelandair/DL already offer good MSP-Europe prices via connections @ KEF and AMS respectively. Also if the O&D demand to DUB was there we'd already see it as a 757 on DL
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:46 pm

DariusBieber wrote:
We will see SAT get TATL service, which is long overdue.

Based on what?

It's not a particularly large market to any European destination (wasn't in the top 8 unserved markets in the Brookings 2011 study nor the Sabre 2013 numbers), and it's surrounded by relatively new service.... so barring a particular draw (e.g. subsidy), it's not a particularly compelling destination compared to other opportunities.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:49 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
DariusBieber wrote:
We will see SAT get TATL service, which is long overdue.

Based on what?

It's not a particularly large market to any European destination (wasn't in the top 8 unserved markets in the Brookings 2011 study nor the Sabre 2013 numbers), and it's surrounded by relatively new service.... so barring a particular draw (e.g. subsidy), it's not a particularly compelling destination compared to other opportunities.


What Sabre 2013 report are you referring to? I would like to see this if possible
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LAX772LR
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:13 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
What Sabre 2013 report are you referring to? I would like to see this if possible

There's a PDF to it somewhere, but I have no idea where to find it at this point.

Below however is a graphic summarizing its findings for the top8 unserved markets at the time, to both London and Europe in total pax and revenue per ticket... with AUS leading the former, and MSY the latter. BNA and SJC also in there.

Image

....interesting to see how they've all gotten scheduled Euro service since, with the notable mainland exceptions of STL and CMH.

The latter boasted the highest yield per seat of current fares in the market, yet has lagged behind nearly all of the others in gaining nonstop service (I'm guessing due to its comparatively low total pax counts).

And as we all know: AUS has been the superstar performer of the bunch-- in May 2018, it had nearly triple the total nonstop LON pax (O&D+transfer) than generated by either SJC or MSY, both of which were comparatively close to each other.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
N292UX
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:22 pm

AA PHL-WAW. Mark my words.

I could also see these happening:
DL CMH-AMS/CDG (one of the 2)
DL AUS-AMS
AA PHX-LHR (Seasonal)
UA IAD-MXP (Seasonal)
BA STL-LHR
IB IAD-MAD
EI DTW-DUB (May start in 2020, imagine the reaction to our DTW fanboys here)
AA PHL-MXP
AA PHL-OSL (Seasonal)
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:34 pm

Doesn't WestJet have an agreement with Easyjet? if so then LGW is far from a dead end for their pax.

I have reason to believe, based on info, that KLM intends to expand their metal into the US and perhaps Canada. This could mean assisting DL on some of the hub to AMS routes so I would not be surprised if 1 daily at BOS/MSP/DTW go to KLM metal.

I hope and expect to see EI: DTW-DUB (if they picked CLE over DTW that would just be ridiculous)
and DY DTW-LGW or perhaps DTW-BCN, I even thought Level for BCN, but with DY expansion there, perhaps them.
Also expecting TK to launch DTW-Istanbul. From what I have been hearing they are now the front runner for the long awaited Mid east route, with QR second.

Lastly I do expect 1 more carrier winter season for RSW, was thinking BA or an affiliate would fit right, although id rather have someone else, the need is there.
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ExConStew82
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:21 am

UA announced IAD-TLV 4X weekly. Nice to see Dulles grow, hopefully they add more new destinations, as well as add IAD/SFO/LAX to premium service.
 
HTCone
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:10 am

DLHAM wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Other than that all I can see for MSP now is EI to DUB, but only with an aircraft smaller than a 757 that has the range (A321LR maybe? Is EI ordering those?).


Aer Lingus will lease A321LRs via ALC. First delivery scheduled for May 2019, four to replace the 757s and four more for expansion. MSP could be a good possibility.


They have 12 on order, 4 per year starting next year. 3 for expansion and 1 to replace the only RR 757 in the fleet next year, the P&W 757s will be replaced in 2021.
 
MAH4546
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:27 am

by738 wrote:
Seems GLA Delta being downgraded for S19 to domestic 757 with no lieflat biz class. Thats a disappointment as its the best 757 biz class on the market (compare with UA/AA). Think some other routes get these too?


Don't they also send 757s to GLA? UA, DL and AA all use the same exact B/E Diamond off-the-shelf seat on 757s.
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DLHAM
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:36 am

HTCone wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
Other than that all I can see for MSP now is EI to DUB, but only with an aircraft smaller than a 757 that has the range (A321LR maybe? Is EI ordering those?).


Aer Lingus will lease A321LRs via ALC. First delivery scheduled for May 2019, four to replace the 757s and four more for expansion. MSP could be a good possibility.


They have 12 on order, 4 per year starting next year. 3 for expansion and 1 to replace the only RR 757 in the fleet next year, the P&W 757s will be replaced in 2021.


Oh I see, I got that information from an article from October last year, must have changed then.
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by738
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:47 am

MAH4546 wrote:
by738 wrote:
Seems GLA Delta being downgraded for S19 to domestic 757 with no lieflat biz class. Thats a disappointment as its the best 757 biz class on the market (compare with UA/AA). Think some other routes get these too?


Don't they also send 757s to GLA? UA, DL and AA all use the same exact B/E Diamond off-the-shelf seat on 757s.

DL has 2 757 current configs
 
DariusBieber
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:31 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
DariusBieber wrote:
We will see SAT get TATL service, which is long overdue.

Based on what?

It's not a particularly large market to any European destination (wasn't in the top 8 unserved markets in the Brookings 2011 study nor the Sabre 2013 numbers), and it's surrounded by relatively new service.... so barring a particular draw (e.g. subsidy), it's not a particularly compelling destination compared to other opportunities.



SAT seems more plausible than many or most of the suggestions being given. AUS has been "doing so well" thanks to many travelers coming from SAT to go there.
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Legend757
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:25 pm

DariusBieber wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
DariusBieber wrote:
We will see SAT get TATL service, which is long overdue.

Based on what?

It's not a particularly large market to any European destination (wasn't in the top 8 unserved markets in the Brookings 2011 study nor the Sabre 2013 numbers), and it's surrounded by relatively new service.... so barring a particular draw (e.g. subsidy), it's not a particularly compelling destination compared to other opportunities.



SAT seems more plausible than many or most of the suggestions being given. AUS has been "doing so well" thanks to many travelers coming from SAT to go there.


Actually, in 2015, only 8% of SAT passengers leaked to AUS. The way people talk on here, you'd think it was 30%. That was 2015. SAT has experienced substantial growth since then, with nonstop destinations up to 54 from 35 in 2016. Also, somewhat to your point, SAT's Europe traffic is increasing despite what is happening in AUS. I'd say the percent of leaking passengers from SAT has dropped.
 
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:47 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
by738 wrote:
What will WestJet be doing with their new 787s- will they be like for like replacements for old 767s or open up new TA routes? Quite big for any non LGW regional routes I would have thought but perhaps peak summer - if TS can do it to eg YYC.


Don't forget that Westjet is in a joint venture with Air France-KLM. They don't have to serve all the regions in Europe by themselves, they can let their partners do that for them. I do expect them to fly to Paris and perhaps Amsterdam as these are the Air France-KLM hubs from where they can take the passengers further. Amsterdam is a bit uncertain due to the slot shortage, but might be possible in the future.

Gatwick on the other hand isn't that logical. It's London of course which draws a lot of passengers, but otherwise it's a dead end. They don't have a feeder airline there. They might drop Gatwick and funnel their London passengers through Paris.


Is it actually a JV? I thought it was just an interline and FFP partnership. And I thought the interline partnership was primarily built around leveraging Westjet's connections from its Canadian hubs. I think as far as Europe goes, they're still on their own currently.
 
MAH4546
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:59 pm

by738 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
by738 wrote:
Seems GLA Delta being downgraded for S19 to domestic 757 with no lieflat biz class. Thats a disappointment as its the best 757 biz class on the market (compare with UA/AA). Think some other routes get these too?


Don't they also send 757s to GLA? UA, DL and AA all use the same exact B/E Diamond off-the-shelf seat on 757s.

DL has 2 757 current configs


Yes, I know, so do AA and UA. Just saying that on the international configs, UA/DL/AA all use the same exact seat.
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izbtmnhd
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Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:39 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Doesn't WestJet have an agreement with Easyjet? if so then LGW is far from a dead end for their pax.

I have reason to believe, based on info, that KLM intends to expand their metal into the US and perhaps Canada. This could mean assisting DL on some of the hub to AMS routes so I would not be surprised if 1 daily at BOS/MSP/DTW go to KLM metal.

I hope and expect to see EI: DTW-DUB (if they picked CLE over DTW that would just be ridiculous)
and DY DTW-LGW or perhaps DTW-BCN, I even thought Level for BCN, but with DY expansion there, perhaps them.
Also expecting TK to launch DTW-Istanbul. From what I have been hearing they are now the front runner for the long awaited Mid east route, with QR second.

Lastly I do expect 1 more carrier winter season for RSW, was thinking BA or an affiliate would fit right, although id rather have someone else, the need is there.


FI picked CLE over DTW and it’s already expanded to year-round now. Not that ridiculous.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1048
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:51 am

Blerg wrote:
Air Serbia is set to announce flights from Belgrade to Toronto. They were deciding between Chicago and Toronto but in the end they went for the latter. They did increase JFK from 5 to 6 weekly this summer.


Any idea on timeline/frequency?
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1048
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:59 am

klakzky123 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
by738 wrote:
What will WestJet be doing with their new 787s- will they be like for like replacements for old 767s or open up new TA routes? Quite big for any non LGW regional routes I would have thought but perhaps peak summer - if TS can do it to eg YYC.


Don't forget that Westjet is in a joint venture with Air France-KLM. They don't have to serve all the regions in Europe by themselves, they can let their partners do that for them. I do expect them to fly to Paris and perhaps Amsterdam as these are the Air France-KLM hubs from where they can take the passengers further. Amsterdam is a bit uncertain due to the slot shortage, but might be possible in the future.

Gatwick on the other hand isn't that logical. It's London of course which draws a lot of passengers, but otherwise it's a dead end. They don't have a feeder airline there. They might drop Gatwick and funnel their London passengers through Paris.


Is it actually a JV? I thought it was just an interline and FFP partnership. And I thought the interline partnership was primarily built around leveraging Westjet's connections from its Canadian hubs. I think as far as Europe goes, they're still on their own currently.


They are currently in negotiations for an expanded agreement. What that will entail, I don’t know yet, but I will update as soon as I find out. It’s likely an expanded codeshare agreement, potentially some form of JV to facilitate connections on both ends.
 
User avatar
TK787
Posts: 4172
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:00 am

DLHAM wrote:
iadguy73 wrote:
I also heard AA PHL-IST


That would be an interesting route. Once Delta served Istanbul from JFK, they canceled that flight already years ago. I think it was a summer seasonal in the last years. I think there was CO or UA service to IST a few years ago which didnt last long as well?

Well, UA serves IST through TK. AA used to Codeshare with THY before they joined Star. There are no US Airlines left at IST for years, I think THY is just too strong.

Good Luck to AA with that :)
TK just filed with Turkish Stock Exchange that it is planning on starting IST-EWR.
And just recent rumors; TK to DEN, DFW and SEA from IST, probably when it receives the first 6 x 789s next year.
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:00 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
Doesn't WestJet have an agreement with Easyjet? if so then LGW is far from a dead end for their pax.

I have reason to believe, based on info, that KLM intends to expand their metal into the US and perhaps Canada. This could mean assisting DL on some of the hub to AMS routes so I would not be surprised if 1 daily at BOS/MSP/DTW go to KLM metal.

I hope and expect to see EI: DTW-DUB (if they picked CLE over DTW that would just be ridiculous)
and DY DTW-LGW or perhaps DTW-BCN, I even thought Level for BCN, but with DY expansion there, perhaps them.
Also expecting TK to launch DTW-Istanbul. From what I have been hearing they are now the front runner for the long awaited Mid east route, with QR second.

Lastly I do expect 1 more carrier winter season for RSW, was thinking BA or an affiliate would fit right, although id rather have someone else, the need is there.


FI picked CLE over DTW and it’s already expanded to year-round now. Not that ridiculous.



Alright, i'll give you that, it seemed ridiculous to me, and now its extremely surprising to me. I do not think another carrier to Europe would have such luck, or whatever it is that has caused FI to choose and then expand CLE
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:14 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
Doesn't WestJet have an agreement with Easyjet? if so then LGW is far from a dead end for their pax.

I have reason to believe, based on info, that KLM intends to expand their metal into the US and perhaps Canada. This could mean assisting DL on some of the hub to AMS routes so I would not be surprised if 1 daily at BOS/MSP/DTW go to KLM metal.

I hope and expect to see EI: DTW-DUB (if they picked CLE over DTW that would just be ridiculous)
and DY DTW-LGW or perhaps DTW-BCN, I even thought Level for BCN, but with DY expansion there, perhaps them.
Also expecting TK to launch DTW-Istanbul. From what I have been hearing they are now the front runner for the long awaited Mid east route, with QR second.

Lastly I do expect 1 more carrier winter season for RSW, was thinking BA or an affiliate would fit right, although id rather have someone else, the need is there.


FI picked CLE over DTW and it’s already expanded to year-round now. Not that ridiculous.



Alright, i'll give you that, it seemed ridiculous to me, and now its extremely surprising to me. I do not think another carrier to Europe would have such luck, or whatever it is that has caused FI to choose and then expand CLE


TBH CLE scoring FI/WW is way less ridiculous than DTW-BCN unless GM is planning on building a plant there.
 
kavok
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:19 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
Doesn't WestJet have an agreement with Easyjet? if so then LGW is far from a dead end for their pax.

I have reason to believe, based on info, that KLM intends to expand their metal into the US and perhaps Canada. This could mean assisting DL on some of the hub to AMS routes so I would not be surprised if 1 daily at BOS/MSP/DTW go to KLM metal.

I hope and expect to see EI: DTW-DUB (if they picked CLE over DTW that would just be ridiculous)
and DY DTW-LGW or perhaps DTW-BCN, I even thought Level for BCN, but with DY expansion there, perhaps them.
Also expecting TK to launch DTW-Istanbul. From what I have been hearing they are now the front runner for the long awaited Mid east route, with QR second.

Lastly I do expect 1 more carrier winter season for RSW, was thinking BA or an affiliate would fit right, although id rather have someone else, the need is there.


FI picked CLE over DTW and it’s already expanded to year-round now. Not that ridiculous.



Alright, i'll give you that, it seemed ridiculous to me, and now its extremely surprising to me. I do not think another carrier to Europe would have such luck, or whatever it is that has caused FI to choose and then expand CLE


Realistically, I would expect FI or WW or EI to do well from any midsize Midwest market (CLE, CVG, STL,IND, etc.) because they are all tapping into an unserved market, which are coach seats wanting to go to Europe at lower fares.

For the legacy airlines, their profit model relies on the seats up front, cargo, and corporate contracts on the TATL routes... which is really the limiting factor for TATL serving the MidSized Midwest. Despite the limited demand up front from those markets, there have however always been more than enough pax to fill coach from any of those markets. And since that is the service FI/WW/EI essentially provide, they can all do very well.

So it is no surprise the FI is doing well in CLE, because quite frankly they would do well from any of the MidSize or Large Midwest markets.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:48 am

kavok wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

FI picked CLE over DTW and it’s already expanded to year-round now. Not that ridiculous.



Alright, i'll give you that, it seemed ridiculous to me, and now its extremely surprising to me. I do not think another carrier to Europe would have such luck, or whatever it is that has caused FI to choose and then expand CLE


Realistically, I would expect FI or WW or EI to do well from any midsize Midwest market (CLE, CVG, STL,IND, etc.) because they are all tapping into an unserved market, which are coach seats wanting to go to Europe at lower fares.

For the legacy airlines, their profit model relies on the seats up front, cargo, and corporate contracts on the TATL routes... which is really the limiting factor for TATL serving the MidSized Midwest. Despite the limited demand up front from those markets, there have however always been more than enough pax to fill coach from any of those markets. And since that is the service FI/WW/EI essentially provide, they can all do very well.

So it is no surprise the FI is doing well in CLE, because quite frankly they would do well from any of the MidSize or Large Midwest markets.


Uhh..OK. I don’t think FI and WW are quite the same model but I won’t argue your points.

I will say with its recent expansion FI only serves MCI, MSP, ORD and CLE in the Midwest.

WW carpet bombed the entire region including DTW.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1590
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:10 am

BA LHR-STL, YEG
LY ORD-TLV
AA ORD-ATH
TP LIS-OAK
FI KEF-IAH
 
trexel94
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 pm

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:19 am

LAX772LR wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
What Sabre 2013 report are you referring to? I would like to see this if possible

There's a PDF to it somewhere, but I have no idea where to find it at this point.

Below however is a graphic summarizing its findings for the top8 unserved markets at the time, to both London and Europe in total pax and revenue per ticket... with AUS leading the former, and MSY the latter. BNA and SJC also in there.

Image

....interesting to see how they've all gotten scheduled Euro service since, with the notable mainland exceptions of STL and CMH.

The latter boasted the highest yield per seat of current fares in the market, yet has lagged behind nearly all of the others in gaining nonstop service (I'm guessing due to its comparatively low total pax counts).

And as we all know: AUS has been the superstar performer of the bunch-- in May 2018, it had nearly triple the total nonstop LON pax (O&D+transfer) than generated by either SJC or MSY, both of which were comparatively close to each other.


So far, Icelandair has reported an average 85% capacity fill for MCI. Not bad IMHO. However, i'm a little surprised that MCI has had little attention in this thread. Since Icelandair is doing well, I could eventually see a carrier like Condor launching 3x weekly flights to FRA or DL sending a 767 to AMS or LHR since there's a large Skyteam presence in KC. Perhaps once the new terminal opens? MCI sent off more people to Europe than Nashville (a city with BA service) so i'm confused as to why a city like CMH would get AMS/LHR but not MCI let alone STL. CMH is smaller in just about every aspect from population to economy size (no offense to our friends in Columbus, OH). Just making an observation.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4154
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:57 am

LAX772LR wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
What Sabre 2013 report are you referring to? I would like to see this if possible

There's a PDF to it somewhere, but I have no idea where to find it at this point.

Below however is a graphic summarizing its findings for the top8 unserved markets at the time, to both London and Europe in total pax and revenue per ticket... with AUS leading the former, and MSY the latter. BNA and SJC also in there.

Image

....interesting to see how they've all gotten scheduled Euro service since, with the notable mainland exceptions of STL and CMH.

The latter boasted the highest yield per seat of current fares in the market, yet has lagged behind nearly all of the others in gaining nonstop service (I'm guessing due to its comparatively low total pax counts).

And as we all know: AUS has been the superstar performer of the bunch-- in May 2018, it had nearly triple the total nonstop LON pax (O&D+transfer) than generated by either SJC or MSY, both of which were comparatively close to each other.


Those were not THE top 8 unserved markets at the time, they were 8 of the largest unserved markets of the time. Excluded from that list was CLE and IND, both markets that would have definitely been on there.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Blerg
Posts: 2364
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:06 am

whywhyzee wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Air Serbia is set to announce flights from Belgrade to Toronto. They were deciding between Chicago and Toronto but in the end they went for the latter. They did increase JFK from 5 to 6 weekly this summer.


Any idea on timeline/frequency?


They applied for flights last year but didn't go through with it. Seems like they will start with two weekly flights on the A332. My guess is that it will happen next summer. They launched JFK on 01.06.2016.
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

Re: TATL Announcements for 2019

Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:24 am

LAX772LR wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
I'm surprised at no BA PDX-LHR.

Why?

(1) PDX-LHR is in no way a particularly large LON market, (2) it already has a full-service airline offering the LHR route nonstop, and (3) Portland also has multiple other European nonstops which would compete against it for connections.

It's not to say that BA would never consider the route, but being the 4th-wheel to a secondary market that already has both strong connection and nonstop competition--- likely isn't high on BA's priority list.
I believe LON is the largest European destination for Portlanders. I feel like the PDX - Europe market is large enough for two full service, network carries. The business market from Portland to Europe is probably the primary opportunity for BA. Sure DL to LHR is a full-service carrier but they don't fly daily and have limited connections at either end. BA can offer so many destinations from LHR that would be very appealing to a lot of travelers. The other two competitors to Europe are Icelandair and Condor. I would classify both as economy focussed airlines. Neither have a good business class nor premium economy.

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