On longer flights to east coast cities, it seems that AS uses a lot of 800's.
Is the range on the 900ER's so tight on those flight it is limiting, hence the use of 737-800's? Or is the 800 simple the most appropriate size?

I've seen them use 900's on flights from SEA-EWR

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

I've seen them use 900's on flights from SEA-EWR

I should have made it more clear - AS seems to use more 800's than 900ER's.

flybynight wrote:

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

I've seen them use 900's on flights from SEA-EWR

I should have made it more clear - AS seems to use more 800's than 900ER's.

Not really outside of DCA where runway length is a factor. The 900ER's make regular appearances on SEA-BOS, SEA-FLL, and even to Hawaii, among the longest routes AS operates. The -800 makes up almost a third of the mainline fleet so you see them throughout the system. If anything there seems to be even less 800's headed to the east coast then there used to be since the 738 has taken over some of the pre-merger Virgin Hawaii flying (SEA-KOA, LAX-OGG) that had previously been operated with the Airbus.

With AS, almost all of its transcon flights to the NYC area are on the B739(ER), although JFK-PDX is usually on the B738. SEA-JFK (the flights done on Boeing equipment) was initially filed on the B738, but upgauged to the B739(ER) before service started.

The 739ER is on SEA-RDU route as well..

I have flown on the -900ER's between SEA and MCO a few times. They even fly between SEA and CHS from time-to-time.

Do the 700s still make it out east?

KICT wrote:

Do the 700s still make it out east?

I've seen the -700s on PDX-AUS quite a bit as of recently. Also PDX-ORD every once in awhile.

I think that almost every flight to TPA, MCO, and FLL are 739ER or A321/A320 (LVX routes). And I believe that SEA-FLL is the longest AS flight in the system.

usxguy wrote:

I think that almost every flight to TPA, MCO, and FLL are 739ER or A321/A320 (LVX routes). And I believe that SEA-FLL is the longest AS flight in the system.

SEA-FLL is also the second-longest currently operating flight in the contiguous United States (title shared with NK) after AA's SEA-MIA route

ericm2031 wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

KICT wrote:

Do the 700s still make it out east?

I've seen the -700s on PDX-AUS quite a bit as of recently. Also PDX-ORD every once in awhile.

I think he meant East Coast

Looking at it from Alaska, Texas is a small, East Coast state.

flybynight wrote:

On longer flights to east coast cities, it seems that AS uses a lot of 800's.
Is the range on the 900ER's so tight on those flight it is limiting, hence the use of 737-800's? Or is the 800 simple the most appropriate size?

Or perhaps they are matching capacity to demand. Considering the 900ER run SEA-FLL, which pushes block times of 7 hours, I doubt range is a issue.

AS doesn't have that many -700's since they started converting some to all-freight. They'll be pulling them out of service over the next year or so for cabin upgrades to provide led lighting, new seats and seat power.

flybynight wrote:

On longer flights to east coast cities, it seems that AS uses a lot of 800's.
Is the range on the 900ER's so tight on those flight it is limiting, hence the use of 737-800's? Or is the 800 simple the most appropriate size?

As other noted, they have shown up and are currently on the longest sectors of AS, so it is a matter of matching capacity. 900ERs are incredibly efficient transcon. UA AS DL all using them in that capacity.

YellowJ wrote:

flybynight wrote:

On longer flights to east coast cities, it seems that AS uses a lot of 800's.
Is the range on the 900ER's so tight on those flight it is limiting, hence the use of 737-800's? Or is the 800 simple the most appropriate size?

Or perhaps they are matching capacity to demand. Considering the 900ER run SEA-FLL, which pushes block times of 7 hours, I doubt range is a issue.

It's pretty obvious when you look at how the flights are split between hubs too. There are three times as many -900ER flights operated to stations east of Ohio from SEA today (15) than there are on -800's, but from PDX, there are 3 more -800 flights operated than -900 departures to BOS, JFK, EWR, PHL, BWI, DCA, ATL, and MCO.

NameOmitted wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

I've seen the -700s on PDX-AUS quite a bit as of recently. Also PDX-ORD every once in awhile.

I think he meant East Coast

Looking at it from Alaska, Texas is a small, East Coast state.

My point was that those are probably some of the longer -700 AS routes.

AS does really close in equipment swaps to put extra seats where they need them.

Alaska pulled several -700s to state of Alaska to replace Combis and Q400s. They aren’t ready to trial E175s up there yet.

FA9295 wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

I think he meant East Coast

Looking at it from Alaska, Texas is a small, East Coast state.

My point was that those are probably some of the longer -700 AS routes.

The 73G’s have been showing up on ANC-ORD from time to time this year.

F9LASDEN wrote:

usxguy wrote:

I think that almost every flight to TPA, MCO, and FLL are 739ER or A321/A320 (LVX routes). And I believe that SEA-FLL is the longest AS flight in the system.

SEA-FLL is also the second-longest currently operating flight in the contiguous United States (title shared with NK) after AA's SEA-MIA route

SEA-FLL comes in at #8 longest in the AS system by mileage flown (not sure about time wise)...

ANC-KOA 2874 sm
ANC-ORD 2846 sm
ANC-OGG 2797 sm
ANC-HNL 2777 sm
ANC-LIH 2742 sm
BLI-KOA 2732 sm
LAX-SJO 2722 sm
SEA-FLL 2717 sm

'902

TWA902fly wrote:

F9LASDEN wrote:

usxguy wrote:

I think that almost every flight to TPA, MCO, and FLL are 739ER or A321/A320 (LVX routes). And I believe that SEA-FLL is the longest AS flight in the system.

SEA-FLL is also the second-longest currently operating flight in the contiguous United States (title shared with NK) after AA's SEA-MIA route

SEA-FLL comes in at #8 longest in the AS system by mileage flown (not sure about time wise)...

ANC-KOA 2874 sm
ANC-ORD 2846 sm
ANC-OGG 2797 sm
ANC-HNL 2777 sm
ANC-LIH 2742 sm
BLI-KOA 2732 sm
LAX-SJO 2722 sm
SEA-FLL 2717 sm

'902

AS doesn't operate ANC-LIH, so SEA-FLL is #7.

Look for the 900ER to take over the majority of the pre-acquisition VX transcons; by January the transcons will be 70% Boeing, 30% Airbus.

AS is also swapping some of the orgina VX aircraft for 739ER at JFK. Started out as only AS 349 and AS 7, now I'm seeing 3 or 4 a day

ooslc wrote:

TWA902fly wrote:

F9LASDEN wrote:

SEA-FLL is also the second-longest currently operating flight in the contiguous United States (title shared with NK) after AA's SEA-MIA route

SEA-FLL comes in at #8 longest in the AS system by mileage flown (not sure about time wise)...

ANC-KOA 2874 sm
ANC-ORD 2846 sm
ANC-OGG 2797 sm
ANC-HNL 2777 sm
ANC-LIH 2742 sm
BLI-KOA 2732 sm
LAX-SJO 2722 sm
SEA-FLL 2717 sm

'902

AS doesn't operate ANC-LIH, so SEA-FLL is #7.

It's seasonal.

ikolkyo wrote:

ooslc wrote:

TWA902fly wrote:

SEA-FLL comes in at #8 longest in the AS system by mileage flown (not sure about time wise)...

ANC-KOA 2874 sm
ANC-ORD 2846 sm
ANC-OGG 2797 sm
ANC-HNL 2777 sm
ANC-LIH 2742 sm
BLI-KOA 2732 sm
LAX-SJO 2722 sm
SEA-FLL 2717 sm

'902

AS doesn't operate ANC-LIH, so SEA-FLL is #7.

It's seasonal.

ANC-LIH isn’t seasonal, it doesn’t exist period. ANC-KOA and ANC-OGG are seasonal.

ATL-SEA is operated with 739's twice per day once early in the am and the other in the early evening. I have flown on them a dozen times over the last 12-18 months. ATL-SEA I believe is around 2100nm, not the longest obviously but nowhere near the shortest. Other than summer ATL delays the flights have always been good.

So, do we know the lid of these flights? Is it worrisome?

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

RWA380 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

Thanks for your reply.
I also experienced a very long take off run, on one FR flight with the 738 completely packed of passengers, cargo and on a very hot and humid day. PSA-LPA last September. Also the climb was slow. Shortest T/O run ( apart from the departures from FLR ) in my experience was on an AZ MD82 back in 2008, LIN-CTA. MD80s had that attitude and being seated in the back didn't help but boy it was a sporty take off.

EA CO AS wrote:

Look for the 900ER to take over the majority of the pre-acquisition VX transcons; by January the transcons will be 70% Boeing, 30% Airbus.

Pretty strong statement! From op's perspective, any idea how the 737 stacks up against the A320?

vadodara wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

Look for the 900ER to take over the majority of the pre-acquisition VX transcons; by January the transcons will be 70% Boeing, 30% Airbus.

Pretty strong statement! From op's perspective, any idea how the 737 stacks up against the A320?

The strong statement was announced on the earnings call.

Cross country performance of 737NGs is fine. 739ER vs A320 is a nice gain in seat count.

RWA380 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

What the ??
Yes, it was carrying a nice fuel load due to the length of flight involved, but you being able to tell because of the 'weight movement of the fuel as you cornered' is the goofiest statement I've ever seen on Anet -- and I've seen a lot of them. It's quite a laughable statement.

Other than the fact you were on a long-ish flight for that particular plane, you'd have no idea how much fuel was on board.

FatCat wrote:

RWA380 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

Thanks for your reply.
I also experienced a very long take off run, on one FR flight with the 738 completely packed of passengers, cargo and on a very hot and humid day. PSA-LPA last September. Also the climb was slow. Shortest T/O run ( apart from the departures from FLR ) in my experience was on an AZ MD82 back in 2008, LIN-CTA. MD80s had that attitude and being seated in the back didn't help but boy it was a sporty take off.

Your post had me thinking...
I agree with your statement on the MD-80...however, not sure you ever tried the DC-9/21 or the /34..now those -of all the DC-9 family variants- REALLY had a sporty, spirited performance! Wow, they were fun to fly on!

And indeed, departures from FLR, particularly on lightly loaded A319s can be very sporty & steep too! (by the way, have you ever experienced the 'Monte Morello' take off??..that is mind blowing! It's so steep and blunt that it makes you dizzy!!)

NameOmitted wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

I've seen the -700s on PDX-AUS quite a bit as of recently. Also PDX-ORD every once in awhile.

I think he meant East Coast

Looking at it from Alaska, Texas is a small, East Coast state.

Go ahead .. tell some Texan redneck he's from the east! You gonna get shot!

RWA380 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

How do feel the weight movement of the fuel? Curious if this is something new I can potentially be on the lookout for.

I can definitely tell if the flight is full for a long flight based on the amount of runway used. It is always interesting seeing AS 737's use up the same amount of runway as, say a 777. That's when you know you're looking at a loaded flight likely heading to maybe Boston or Hawaii.

But isnt' the range of the 800's still a little longer than the bigger 900ER's?

RWA380 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

PDX-HNL is fighting against the wind over the ocean, so it's going to be a long ride at certain times of the year. Has nothing to do with the aircraft. Also "movement of the fuel" really dude? Come on.

vadodara wrote:

Pretty strong statement! From op's perspective, any idea how the 737 stacks up against the A320?

Before this gets into a standard A/B argument, remember that AS owns 737s, and leases the A320s. Since aircraft age by cycles, there is an advantage to ruining leased aircraft on shorter, more frequent flights.

Also, at this point we are talking AS configured 737 vs. VX configured A320s. The difference in passenger density will be more pronounced on longer flights.

F27500 wrote:

NameOmitted wrote:

ericm2031 wrote:

I think he meant East Coast

Looking at it from Alaska, Texas is a small, East Coast state.

Go ahead .. tell some Texan redneck he's from the east! You gonna get shot!

If you can't take the truth, take a gun?

I think I've flown on -900ERs on every AS transcon route I've flown except for DCA. DCA is runway limited and a -900ER can't take off from there with a full load of passengers and fuel. I would love to know if the A321neo can do it, as DCA could desperately use more seats.

Years ago, when the -800 fleet was small, AS used to use the non-ER 900s on SEA-BOS and SEA-EWR. If weather was unfavorable there would be blocked seats and sometimes even IDBs on the westbound legs. I don't think I've ever seen blocked seats on a -900ER.

seabosdca wrote:

I think I've flown on -900ERs on every AS transcon route I've flown except for DCA. DCA is runway limited and a -900ER can't take off from there with a full load of passengers and fuel. I would love to know if the A321neo can do it, as DCA could desperately use more seats.

They've been using the NEO on DCA-SFO pretty consistently.

I can’t imagine a320s are going to be around once the lease is up. Looks like 739s are taking over all the flights that they were configured for. Any guesses on whether they will keep a321? Seems like as likes them on the Hawaiian routes. A great aircraft that may not outweigh the benefits of single type fleet.

flybynight wrote:

RWA380 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

How do feel the weight movement of the fuel? Curious if this is something new I can potentially be on the lookout for.

I can definitely tell if the flight is full for a long flight based on the amount of runway used. It is always interesting seeing AS 737's use up the same amount of runway as, say a 777. That's when you know you're looking at a loaded flight likely heading to maybe Boston or Hawaii.

But isnt' the range of the 800's still a little longer than the bigger 900ER's?

It's not always possible to tell how a flight is loaded based on the amount of runway used. Flying out of LAX, SFO, SEA, BOS -- they are almost always flying a derated takeoff given the longer runways and elevation above sea level. By using a derated takeoff, it will naturally eat up more runway.

Secondly, a 737 or 320 fueled and loaded up for 6-7 hours of flight will be much closer to MTOW proportionally, than a 777 fueled and loaded up for 6-7 hours. In this situation, the 777 would be pretty light and thus, be spritely on runway performance.

So your comparison is like apples to oranges, unfortunately.

seabosdca wrote:

I think I've flown on -900ERs on every AS transcon route I've flown except for DCA. DCA is runway limited and a -900ER can't take off from there with a full load of passengers and fuel. I would love to know if the A321neo can do it, as DCA could desperately use more seats.

Years ago, when the -800 fleet was small, AS used to use the non-ER 900s on SEA-BOS and SEA-EWR. If weather was unfavorable there would be blocked seats and sometimes even IDBs on the westbound legs. I don't think I've ever seen blocked seats on a -900ER.

DCA transcon seems to be a case where A321 can do it (AA DCA-PHX and AS DCA-LAX) but B739 cannot do it.

Flighty wrote:

DCA transcon seems to be a case where A321 can do it (AA DCA-PHX and AS DCA-LAX) but B739 cannot do it.

That is because of the short runway at DCA...but from Washington DC -- I just did IAD to LAX roundtrip on a UAL 739 both ways...on packed flights with every seat filled.

Our flight from LAX was delayed because fuel was pouring out of the overflow on the wing...drawing emergency vehicles! So the tanks are getting filled to the brim on these transcon 739 flights!

AS 900ER's make it to MKE.

ikolkyo wrote:

RWA380 wrote:

FatCat wrote:

I was looking at the differences between AS's -900 and -800, on seats arrangement.
What a strange configuration. 3 classes on -800 and some -900.
What Seatguru calls "Premium" is some sort of Business, right?
Never seen a 3 classes 738 here in EU, they are mostly sardine cans 189 full Economy, lol

The idea is that the entire AS fleet, Airbus, Boeing & Embraer (Boeing South) will offer 3 distinctive cabins on all of their aircraft. Coach (with decent seat pitch). premium economy & First class. AS has a couple more 900ER's than 800's at this point & the field performance is not great on the 900ER, it's a slow ascent but the long take off runs are kind of fun.

The first 900ER for me, was on AS PDX-HNL, it was full of fuel (noted by the weight movement of the fuel as we cornered) it was certainly my longest roll on a 737 taking off towards the west, a long slow gradual ascent & by the time we hit the coastline, we were getting to cruising altitude, we were forward of the wing with an unobstructed view of the ocean for hours. 6h 20m PDX-HNL, slow ride!

PDX-HNL is fighting against the wind over the ocean, so it's going to be a long ride at certain times of the year. Has nothing to do with the aircraft. Also "movement of the fuel" really dude? Come on.

Why the bashing? Dude! If you've never been on an aircraft full with fuel, that when the pilot turns onto a runway and advances the throttle that you've never felt the weight displacement in an aircraft that is at it's comfortable operational limits, then you've not been paying attention. SMH.

If you disagree fine, don't be a douche about it. Used to be people could relay a memory here & the most would also enjoy, now you've given me an attitude like I'm lying, well you can pop that up your [email protected]@. I have no reason to lie, I am not lying & you sirs are a fool, by missing out on one of the best parts of a flight. IMO. You don't have to believe it, but don't start saying I'm telling tales. got it?

When AS used to fly to MEX, they used 738´s and the wingleted 739´s...you don't know how it feels to roll for AGES to take off at 2400 meters ASL with a full cabin, luckily the flights to LAX are 4 hour hops so I guess we were not close to MTOW, but I got used to it....rolll roll..and then up like a pelican....

Best Regards
TRB

Keep the thread on topic or it will be locked. There's no need for personal attacks.

✈️ atcsundevil