artofzen
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Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:37 am

In particular, Philippines and Indonesia don't attract or be able to retain ones from different regions like south Asia, Levant, CIS, Africa and Europe.
Last edited by artofzen on Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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lydh
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Re: Why arent Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:41 am

Indonesia in particular is a very low-yield destination. Malaysia is too, it seems, though the general economic trajectory of the country (it's more or less "developed" at this point) would suggest that shouldn't be the case to the extent it is.
 
rutankrd
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:45 am

No way to make sufficient yields period stop.

All far to leisure price sensitive and only frequent flyers tend to be nannies and nurses .
 
artofzen
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:48 am

Included Philippines too.
 
sq256
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:53 am

Low yielding markets that's heavily VFR based with some tourism hotspots (e.g Bali).
 
rlwynn
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:09 am

Levant? That would what, El Al and MEA and Royal Jordanian.
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Coal
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:39 am

artofzen wrote:
In particular, Philippines and Indonesia don't attract or be able to retain ones from different regions like south Asia, Levant, CIS, Africa and Europe.

SQ offers 9x daily to CGK and 4x daily to MNL, and they are the only destinations in SE Asia with an F cabin (long haul F).
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:42 am

ET do fly to Philippines and Indonesia and Malaysia, all via one stop, though (MNL via HKG, CGK and KUL via SIN), as does KL (AMS-KUL-CGK, and AMS-TPE-MNL), so it is not really zero carrier.

But like many said, Philippines and Indonesia are not particularly high yield. Neither draw the amount of tourist traffic compare to Thailand, either.

Then there is cultural tie and diaspora location. Not a ton of Filipino diaspora in Europe, with most of them being in US along with Middle East (and rest of APAC, of course). There is a fair amount of Indonesian in the Netherlands, but again, that's about it. Otherwise they are in rest of APAC along with Middle East. As for Malaysian - the diaspora is nowhere as big. Malaysia itself is not a tourist hotspot, though, compare to its northern neighbor in Thailand. Nor it is a business hotspot, compare to its southern neighbor in Singapore.

Lastly, there is ME3, who gladly take many of those traffic right now.
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adamh8297
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:24 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:

Lastly, there is ME3, who gladly take many of those traffic right now.


:checkmark:

The ME3 (and in my opinion CX/TK as well) have made it ridiculously cheap and slightly more convenient (more 1-stop options instead of 2+) to travel to these three destinations especially from the USA. Being a scuba diver, I always keep a pulse on pricing to SE Asia and if it were not for 20 hour+ travel time I'd go once a year instead of the Caribbean - It would actually be cheaper when you look at the total package as well though Filipino dive resorts seem to be steadily increasing in price!
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:32 pm

Just more note I want to add...

Let see...
Levant = El Al, Royal Jordanian, MEA, and maybe (if you want to count them) Syrian Air. Only El Al and RJ fly long-haul, and LY doesn't fly to Indonesia/Malaysia for obvious reason. RJ does fly to KUL, although via BKK. And it's not like RJ's APAC network is big anyway (1x Flight to BKK, 4w continue to HKG and the other 3w continue to KUL).

CIS = Air services are awful as-is in the region. Central Asia you got both KC (Air Astana) and HY (Uzbekistan Airways) flying to KUL. The only airline that fly long haul out of the Caucasus States, J2 (Azerbaijan), only fly to PEK in APAC region. And the "western" CIS, you got PS (Ukraine Int.) to BKK and PEK and that's it. Again, no HKG, no PVG, no SIN. (Speaking of Ukraine, it's leaving CIS anyway). Lastly, SU (Aeroflot). If Russians fly anywhere in SE Asia for sun destination, it'll be Thailand and Vietnam.

Africa = Let see, the big airlines would be ET (Ethiopian) and SA (South Afircan), and maybe MS (EgyptAir) + KQ (Kenya Airways). As I already said, ET fly to all 3 countries you named, MS & KQ doesn't really fly anywhere in APAC region (other than BKK, aka for me the global "3rd world" air hub). Then there's SA, with grand total of 2 destinations in the region (HKG and well, PER). No SIN, no BKK, no PVG or PEK or CAN.

South Asia = Let see. India you got AI, who's a joke. Then there's 9W, going to standard Indian foreign "hub" in APAC in BKK, SIN, and HKG. Otherwise, for the two Muslim-majority countries, both PK (Pakistan Intl.) and BG (Biman Bangladesh) fly to KUL. Lastly, you have UL (SriLankan), who fly to KUL and CGK.

I won't dive into Europe too much other than saying that it's mostly low-yield traffic, and also, the relative small VFR traffic.

At the end, as you can see, things are not even THAT bad for Malaysia (KUL). Another factor that you need to considered is that the number of long-haul airlines (other than Europe) is simply not great.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:02 pm

I have flown US-KUL twice in the last four years - both times I only flew there because the tickets were extremely cheap. My PHL-KUL last year was $316 on QR - the lowest price I have ever paid for an intercontinental ticket.

Since KUL is the birthplace of AirAsia and Air AsiaX, its' yields in economy class are often trash.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:09 pm

Too far away from other regions just like the situation with Australia. And then also yield factor
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:47 pm

Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:55 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
as does KL (AMS-KUL-CGK, and AMS-TPE-MNL),


Plus AMS-SIN-DPS. Moreover, GA will operate AMS - CGK nonstop.

Dieuwer wrote:
Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??


You've probably never been to Malaysia? Anyway Indonesian economy is booming (despite the unrest).
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??

That's a load of nonsence. Yes it can be hot and humid but so is Chicago in the summer. I've been to both country's over thr past 30 years and it all depends on what season it is. It can actually be quite dry and pleasant.
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BestWestern
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:31 pm

Oh I love the stereotypes in this thread.
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bigfoot0503
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:53 pm

Some really astounding viewpoints thus far. From what I can gather some offered up with little to no factual data or for that matter when you speak of these countries...have you even traveled to them? I personally love Malaysia and I'm absoulutely fine with it remaining an undiscovered gem. The exchange rate with the US dollar is favorable, the citizens are amazing, warm and welcoming and the beaches aren't trashed like many have become in other popular SE Asia "hot spots". As numbers go I was actually astounded at the sheer volume of travellers that airports like Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta (Indonesia) witness on an annual basis. Even smaller secondary airports like Penang in Malaysia generate in the area of 7.2 million passengers (this in 2017). Jakarta was at 63 million passengers and Kuala Lumpur handled 58 million passengers (2017 data).

Just because there are perhaps no "easy" links from the US to these countries doesn't mean that they aren't well connected...it's frankly all a matter of perspective. You realize when you travel to a place like Kuala Lumpur that you are a mere 350 km to the Equator and from Jakarta you are South of the Equator.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:51 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??


You know, Singapore is hot and humid year round (Same climate as Peninsular Malaysia), Thailand is also just as hot and humid (Climate of the southern part i.e. Phuket and Samui is not that much different from Peninsular Malaysia or Jakarta). Last I checked, many people still travel to those two places every year.

BTW TONS of Aussie goes to Indonesia every year (They''re #4 after Malaysia, Singapore, and China).

Oh, what about the gajillion Americans going to Caribbean or Costa Rica every year? Last I checked, those places are just as hot and just as humid.

Back on topic.

Another note I want to make is that one can also start putting things in the other perspective. For example, PR (Philippines Airlines) only fly to LHR in Europe, and doesn't fly anywhere in Africa nor South Asia (nor CIS). GA (Garuda Indonesia) only fly to LHR and AMS, and BOM in India. KUL is different, with tons of flights to India (Mostly on AK/AirAsia), so that's actually the case where Indian carriers are insular.

P.S. While I'm at it, the OP is referring to European, Levant (I guess just to avoid talking about the entire Middle East, as ME3 + many GCC carriers fly to those 3 countries), CIS (Russia? Or the other ex-Soviet states?), or South Asia (So India, Pakistan, Maldives, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan?). We all know that flights from US doesn't exist b/c those 3 countries relative to US is in a galaxy far, far away.
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:00 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??


You're kidding me... Malaysia received nearly 26m tourists last year. It's the third most visited destination in Asia behind China and Thailand.
 
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afterburner
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:16 am

BestWestern wrote:
Oh I love the stereotypes in this thread.

Partly because of lacks of world geographical knowledge.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:20 am

PerfectGriffin wrote:
Malaysia received nearly 26m tourists last year. It's the third most visited destination in Asia behind China and Thailand.

I wonder how many of them are originally visitors to Singapore that cross the strait by the causeway to Johor.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:58 am

The Philippines actually has a fair outbound pax demand to Europe and NA, especially from the upper middle to high class population. Most of the Europe-bound pax use the ME3 or SQ however, as they provide competitive fares and good service. Inbound demand from Europeans is quite fair, especially from the UK. Data from the Department of Tourism also notes Germany, France and Norway as some of the top visitors to the Philippines. Currently, PAL's MNL-LHR service is doing well, with the daily service being upgauged from the A343 to the B77W. KL seems to be doing alright on the AMS-TPE-MNL service as well, but its unclear what its future will be.

A market not to be neglected is the high numbers of Overseas Filipino Workers (official term for guest workers/migrant workers) in Europe that provide a lot of cargo and passenger traffic, especially during the Christmas holidays when OFWs send large packages home to their families or return home to visit.

The South Asian market can be tricky. PAL used to do Manila to New Delhi (or was it Mumbai?) around ten years back. The route didn't last very long, even as a tag-on of the BKK service. With the arrival of the A321neos, PR is studying the possibility of beginning service to BOM and DEL. MLE is also on their radar, with the governments of the Philippines and the Maldives signing an air services agreement. The Maldives has an appeal to Filipino tourists, so the route might work.

As for the CIS, the Russian tourist market is currently in some rough patches, with the ruble losing its valuation. I don't think we'll be seeing flights to secondary CIS cities, because the demand from those cities come from the tourist market. The only route I foresee that might actually work would be MNL-Moscow, as Filipino-Russian bilateral ties have been improving.
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Bobby27ph
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:59 am

1. These 3 have the biggest LCC's in Southeast Asia, namely Lion Air, Air Asia, and Cebu Pacific.

2. Their target segment is price conscious, esp in the Philippines.

3. In the premium sector, the Big 3 from the Middle East are present in these countries.

4. The operational costs of the airlines based on these countries are lower than the European ones.

5. Manila Airport is heavily congested, that carriers have to operate out of secondary airports like Clark, Cebu. It just surpassed Hongqiao, Xian, Houston, Rome airports are the world's 44th busiest. But it only has 1 runway suitable for longhaul flights.

6. Legacy carriers from Europe which used to fly to Manila, Jakarta, KL are all having (or have had) financial difficulties. Even KLM os being pulled down by Air France.
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:59 am

afterburner wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
Malaysia received nearly 26m tourists last year. It's the third most visited destination in Asia behind China and Thailand.

I wonder how many of them are originally visitors to Singapore that cross the strait by the causeway to Johor.


I may be wrong, but from an Australian’s perspective, I’d say minimal would be entering Malaysia that way for tourism.
Between traffic to KL, and then tourism to Penang, Kuching and Kota Kinabalu that would be the majority of the traffic.
Some of the destinations may not be world reknowned, but they don’t need to be, they get the regional tourism. Hence Air Asia’s success, and a lack of carriers from further afield.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:13 am

I hope things don't change. Some fantastic J fares to be had to these low yielding destinations.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:18 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??

Better red hot than icy cold.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:46 am

NZ tired to launch AKL-MNL a two years back, they even promoted it.

6 months later they have up and never put the route up for sale - stating it was to hard to get the required paperwork in place to operate the route, PH had just started an MNL-CNS-AKL service with an A320 that seemed to be protected by the government.
 
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afterburner
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:29 am

The location of these countries may also be one of the reasons not many Western (North American and European) carriers fly there. However, major carriers from the Far East, Middle East, and Australia are well established there.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:47 am

afterburner wrote:
The location of these countries may also be one of the reasons not many Western (North American and European) carriers fly there. However, major carriers from the Far East, Middle East, and Australia are well established there.

Indeed, it is very far. LHR to Denpasar, Bali, is ~6700 nm, which is just a bit longer than LAX-TLV and a bit shorter than BOS-HKG. So you can't just fly an A330 there from Europe, and for heavier aircraft the yield isn't there, between SEA yields in general being lower and the ME3 having a decent marketshare. Also, Singapore Airlines captures a decent amount of the higher-yield long-haul traffic. You could compare this to India, where a majority of travellers choose the one-stop via a foreign hub.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:00 am

mxaxai wrote:
Also, Singapore Airlines captures a decent amount of the higher-yield long-haul traffic.

Also, carriers like EVA Air and China Airlines fly Southeast Asians to the North America with quite affordable fares.
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:09 am

CIS - Aeroflot flew A330-200s between DPS and SVO in the past not sure of the current state, Orenair, Transaero in the past also.
 
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afterburner
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:41 am

Melbourne wrote:
CIS - Aeroflot flew A330-200s between DPS and SVO in the past not sure of the current state, Orenair, Transaero in the past also.

I believe the flights were seasonal charter. Several years ago, other than the usual Australians, there were many Russian tourists in Bali. Nowadays, there are Chinese. Charter flights by Citilink, Lion Air, Sriwijaya Air, and other carriers fly them to Bali from many smaller Chinese cities.
 
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b777900
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:14 pm

What European airlines flies to MNL ?
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:17 pm

b777900 wrote:
What European airlines flies to MNL ?


KLM, via TPE (No fifth freedom between the two, though).

There's also TK. As their HQ is in IST airport itself, they're definitely European. :duck:

ME3 + TK, along with SQ, got most of the Europe to SE Asia traffic covered anyway. For Philippines CX is also not a bad choice.
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:22 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
b777900 wrote:
What European airlines flies to MNL ?


KLM, via TPE (No fifth freedom between the two, though).

There's also TK. As their HQ is in IST airport itself, they're definitely European. :duck:

ME3 + TK, along with SQ, got most of the Europe to SE Asia traffic covered anyway. For Philippines CX is also not a bad choice.


I'm pretty sure CX carries the most connecting passengers to and from the Philippines and Europe considering CX's 48 weekly flights to MNL and 5 daily to LHR. CX carries a lot more than SQ, EK and QR in order, TK is not far behind. I travel to Asia via HKG regularly from most large EU Airports and CX does carry a lot of Filipino transit pax although it is not common to see Filipino pax in premium cabins. I have seen a few flying with EK though but through payments of their employers.
 
727200
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:29 pm

The yield is terrible in those markets. Or to put it another way: NO $$$.

Next topic...
 
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afterburner
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:05 pm

I think OP must define which carriers are Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia not popular to. Like I've already mentioned above, because of the location, even Singapore is not popular with North American carriers (only UA flies to SIN). It's the distances that makes the difference (the ability to generate the yields).
 
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bigfoot0503
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:25 pm

afterburner wrote:
I think OP must define which carriers are Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia not popular to. Like I've already mentioned above, because of the location, even Singapore is not popular with North American carriers (only UA flies to SIN). It's the distances that makes the difference (the ability to generate the yields).


Incorrect...Delta still has a flight to SIN from NRT. Not sure if you are referencing n/s flights of US carriers to SIN from North America or just simply US carriers that presently fly into SIN. However that would make two US carriers that have a presence at Singapore Changi.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:31 pm

J343 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
b777900 wrote:
What European airlines flies to MNL ?


KLM, via TPE (No fifth freedom between the two, though).

There's also TK. As their HQ is in IST airport itself, they're definitely European. :duck:

ME3 + TK, along with SQ, got most of the Europe to SE Asia traffic covered anyway. For Philippines CX is also not a bad choice.


I'm pretty sure CX carries the most connecting passengers to and from the Philippines and Europe considering CX's 48 weekly flights to MNL and 5 daily to LHR. CX carries a lot more than SQ, EK and QR in order, TK is not far behind. I travel to Asia via HKG regularly from most large EU Airports and CX does carry a lot of Filipino transit pax although it is not common to see Filipino pax in premium cabins. I have seen a few flying with EK though but through payments of their employers.


And I certainly agree - and not just to Europe. Back in 2014 or so, PR started MNL-JED (Apparently they're ending that route, though). Not long after that, CX ended HKG-JED, mainly b/c the route was mostly carrying Filipinos to/from Saudi Arabia. Tons of Filipinos uses CX to/from North America also (B/c, quite frankly, PR is not that great).

Same thing can be said for SQ and Indonesia anyway. Pretty much any Indonesian that have some money preferred SQ over GA, even if it mean one-stop. SQ has to fill those 5 (out of 8) daily 773A flights after all.

FlyRow wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Personally I wouldn't set foot in any of these countries due to their human rights abuses and the risk to my freedom or life if someone were to put drugs in my luggage.


Damm.... The hot and humid call was stupid, but this takes the retard cake.


:white:

Oh well, just more "holier than thou" BS from people that probably never even been anywhere close to that area.

EDIT:
afterburner wrote:
I think OP must define which carriers are Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia not popular to. Like I've already mentioned above, because of the location, even Singapore is not popular with North American carriers (only UA flies to SIN). It's the distances that makes the difference (the ability to generate the yields).


The OP specifically referred to South Asia, CIS, Europe, Africa, and Levant. N. American carriers are not in the equation at all, as it's pretty clear that long distance play a huge factor as to why those carriers doesn't fly there.

P.S. In addition to DL flying to SIN (via NRT) as somebody already mentioned, DL also fly to MNL. There's a reason why DL kept those two markets (for now) even after they pretty much dismantled the whole NRT "hub".
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LAXLHR
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:32 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??


Having been to both countries, I can say they are exceptionally beautiful and you do not know what you are talking about. Typical American ignorance, considering very undesirable places like the South and East coast of the USA has unbearable humidity in the summer, not to mention the people that live there ughh, gross!!
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:05 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Another issue is that Indonesia and Malaysia are grossly hot and humid year round. Who in their right mind want to travel there??


LOL, you won the internet today!
Being a native of a Caribbean island that is “hot and humid” year round it sure beats those dreadful Northern winters. Trust me!
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:50 pm

LAXLHR wrote:
Typical American ignorance....!!


Having been to Singapore and Kuala Lumpur many times as an American, at 2 pm, I prefer to stay inside the air-conditioned hotel room rather than sweating up a shirt. The same goes if I'm in Miami or Pensacola. But as far as generalizing someone as "Typical American ingnorance" , I'll just get back at ya: for every one of those, you can find some European that thinks that Arizona is a big desert with a deep ditch running through it. So be it in our ignorance.
 
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:48 am

bigfoot0503 wrote:
afterburner wrote:
I think OP must define which carriers are Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia not popular to. Like I've already mentioned above, because of the location, even Singapore is not popular with North American carriers (only UA flies to SIN). It's the distances that makes the difference (the ability to generate the yields).


Incorrect...Delta still has a flight to SIN from NRT. Not sure if you are referencing n/s flights of US carriers to SIN from North America or just simply US carriers that presently fly into SIN. However that would make two US carriers that have a presence at Singapore Changi.

Sorry. I missed that.

zakuivcustom wrote:
The OP specifically referred to South Asia, CIS, Europe, Africa, and Levant. N. American carriers are not in the equation at all, as it's pretty clear that long distance play a huge factor as to why those carriers doesn't fly there.

I don't know how I missed this one too. :banghead:
 
Jetty
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:24 am

From my hometown AMS I can fly direct to multiple destinations on the other side of the world in the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia. Calling them unpopular with carriers wholly depends on which carriers you're looking at, as is true with almost every destination.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:04 am

For a Malaysian, going to the Levant would always mean the ME3. To India, MH & AirAsia has it pretty much covered. And traffic to other South Asian countries, Africa & the CIS is minimal to be honest, but if one wants to venture there from KUL, one can easily fly on the ME3 to connect to Africa, PK & BG to go to Pakistan & Bangladesh, or KL to connect to the CIS via AMS.

So it's no surprise that the traffic in KUL is rather monotonous.
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planemanofnz
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:39 am

In Australasia, it's interesting that QF successfully serves CGK and MNL, but not KUL. Although KUL - SYD has both D7 and MH already, MNL - SYD also has two Asian carriers - PR and 5J (albeit at lower frequencies), and yet QF can survive on the latter, but hasn't started the former. QF hasn't even deployed its LCC - JQ - on the Malaysia - Australia corridor. KUL is bigger and faster growing than MNL too.

Cheers,

C.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:53 am

afterburner wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
Malaysia received nearly 26m tourists last year. It's the third most visited destination in Asia behind China and Thailand.

I wonder how many of them are originally visitors to Singapore that cross the strait by the causeway to Johor.


Anecdotaly, I've done it a couple of times, but only because I had reasons to visit both and got a better deal to Singapore (even on SQ, surprisingly) than into KUL.
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SurlyBonds
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:11 pm

rutankrd wrote:
No way to make sufficient yields period stop.

All far to leisure price sensitive and only frequent flyers tend to be nannies and nurses .


I'm skeptical of this. Malaysia surely has business traffic. It is the world's leading center for Islamic finance, which may not come close to eclipsing garden-variety finance, but also isn't nothing. There is also manufacturing and some degree of tech. KL is not LHR, NYC, SIN, or HKG, but I'd venture that it is also not Jakarta or Manila.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:45 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Malaysia surely has business traffic. It is the world's leading center for Islamic finance, which may not come close to eclipsing garden-variety finance, but also isn't nothing. There is also manufacturing and some degree of tech. KL is not LHR, NYC, SIN, or HKG, but I'd venture that it is also not Jakarta or Manila.

In terms of the past, consider that CGK's metro population is 4x the size of KUL's and Indonesia's economy is 3 - 4x the size of Malaysia's, and while Malaysia is strong in 'Islamic Finance,' this traffic is arguably focused on the Middle East and the ME3. For the future, consider the reputational damage to Malaysia in the wake of 1MDB, and Mahathir's canning of many foreign projects. I's not hard to see why foreign carriers have been, and will continue to be, cautious about launching KUL.

Therefore, I wouldn't say that KUL is more special than CGK. CGK is the capital of ASEAN, but has issues such as 1) runway, and 2) geography. The runway has not been strong enough to allow for non-stop flights to Europe using certain aircraft types - for example, GA has had to use a technical stop at SIN. Further, geography has meant that CGK is far less competitive for attracting European services than KUL is - for example, DE could use its 767's to KUL, but not to CGK.

Cheers,

C.
 
rlwynn
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Re: Why arent Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia popular with carriers?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:00 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
LAXLHR wrote:
Typical American ignorance....!!


I'll just get back at ya: for every one of those, you can find some European that thinks that Arizona is a big desert with a deep ditch running through it. So be it in our ignorance.



That seems to be the perect definition.

And it seems that I have alwaxs heard the favorite way to get from LAX to Manila is with EVA.
I can drive faster than you

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