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CarbonFibre
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:02 pm

BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:22 pm

Any idea how long this is being used for? Presumably not still in BBJ config?!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-awbb
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
factsonly
Posts: 2693
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:31 pm

PrivatAir Germany Boeing 737-7CN D-AWBB operates for British Airways:

http://thebasource.com/
 
Bhoy
Posts: 359
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:35 pm

has that got an all C-interior? Bonus for anyone going on holiday to Ibiza from Gatters yesterday.
 
george77300
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:24 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Any idea how long this is being used for? Presumably not still in BBJ config?!

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-awbb


Bhoy wrote:
has that got an all C-interior? Bonus for anyone going on holiday to Ibiza from Gatters yesterday.


No a 20C/66Y interior. Although major upgrade for Club Europe passengers (2-2 config). Economy fairly normal 3-3 configuration.
 
george77300
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:27 pm

Also complimentary food and drink and no M&S buy onboard. Major upgrade. It’s a Lufthansa config and temporary while a Eastern E190 is being fixed that has been doing a lot of leasing for BA.
 
george77300
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:29 pm

Also a mod could take BBJ out of title. It’s a standard Privatair B737 with a 20C/66Y. 86 total seats. BBJ makes it sound like some all J config or something.
 
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RobK
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:42 pm

george77300 wrote:
Also a mod could take BBJ out of title. It’s a standard Privatair B737 with a 20C/66Y. 86 total seats. BBJ makes it sound like some all J config or something.


It is a BBJ officially so the title is correct. It's frame YG064 which indicates it's factory built BBJ just like all the other YG0xx and YG1xx BBJ frames. The fact that it doesn't have an executive CEO-style interior doesn't change that.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:53 pm

george77300 wrote:
Also complimentary food and drink and no M&S buy onboard. Major upgrade. It’s a Lufthansa config and temporary while a Eastern E190 is being fixed that has been doing a lot of leasing for BA.

I think this is the equipment LH used on the now discontinued FRA-PNQ route
 
george77300
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:15 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Also complimentary food and drink and no M&S buy onboard. Major upgrade. It’s a Lufthansa config and temporary while a Eastern E190 is being fixed that has been doing a lot of leasing for BA.

I think this is the equipment LH used on the now discontinued FRA-PNQ route


Yes it sure is. Past history shows many FRA-PNQ flights for LH.
 
c933103
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:21 pm

george77300 wrote:
Also complimentary food and drink and no M&S buy onboard. Major upgrade. It’s a Lufthansa config and temporary while a Eastern E190 is being fixed that has been doing a lot of leasing for BA.

Is it that hard to find a sub-100 seat aircraft for short term temporary lease now that they have to get a 737 instead for the job?
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
Andy33
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:54 pm

c933103 wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Also complimentary food and drink and no M&S buy onboard. Major upgrade. It’s a Lufthansa config and temporary while a Eastern E190 is being fixed that has been doing a lot of leasing for BA.

Is it that hard to find a sub-100 seat aircraft for short term temporary lease now that they have to get a 737 instead for the job?

Well there are restrictions: has to be from an ECAA registered airline or have special exemption to operate scheduled flights wholly within the ECAA; has to have the range to operate the routes, and has to fit the airports; airline has to have a large enough pilot and cabin crew pool to operate the timetable day in day out.

Why does BA need to wet-lease at all? Monarch Airlines (ZB) went bust. BA was able to purchase their LGW slot portfolio, at least partly to keep it out of the hands of competitors like Norwegian. LGW has a use-it-or-lose-it rule for slots, so BA was obliged to come up with flights to use the slots, and planes and crews to operate the slots. Given the timescale of the deal (it was finalised earlier this year), they weren't able to increase the size of their own fleet and their own crew pool in time to cover all the work for this summer, so they've been wet-leasing.
They don't need a sub-100 seat aircraft at all. All the other wet-leases are of standard all-economy/Eurobusiness 737s and A320 series planes, and I'm sure BA would have preferred something in the 140-180 seat range. There are no union issues - this is extra work, not transferred work, and no doubt there have been assurances given that the work will go in house as soon as there are enough planes and crews available; the routes are all within A320 series/737 range, and the airports concerned see A320 series/737s every day. I suspect they took the E190 originally because they could get it and Eastern is a regular BA wetlease resource for LCY flights so they are used to working together. With it temporarily unavailable, a quick check round the European ACMI operators found Privatair unexpectedly had a plane and crews available.

This was booked to be chartered to Lufthansa for an alternative route once PNQ ended, but allegedly Lufthansa cancelled the charter because of doubts about Privatair's financial position - this has to be questioned if the equally cautious BA are willing to use them.
 
george77300
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Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:18 pm

Andy33 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Also complimentary food and drink and no M&S buy onboard. Major upgrade. It’s a Lufthansa config and temporary while a Eastern E190 is being fixed that has been doing a lot of leasing for BA.

Is it that hard to find a sub-100 seat aircraft for short term temporary lease now that they have to get a 737 instead for the job?

Well there are restrictions: has to be from an ECAA registered airline or have special exemption to operate scheduled flights wholly within the ECAA; has to have the range to operate the routes, and has to fit the airports; airline has to have a large enough pilot and cabin crew pool to operate the timetable day in day out.

Why does BA need to wet-lease at all? Monarch Airlines (ZB) went bust. BA was able to purchase their LGW slot portfolio, at least partly to keep it out of the hands of competitors like Norwegian. LGW has a use-it-or-lose-it rule for slots, so BA was obliged to come up with flights to use the slots, and planes and crews to operate the slots. Given the timescale of the deal (it was finalised earlier this year), they weren't able to increase the size of their own fleet and their own crew pool in time to cover all the work for this summer, so they've been wet-leasing.
They don't need a sub-100 seat aircraft at all. All the other wet-leases are of standard all-economy/Eurobusiness 737s and A320 series planes, and I'm sure BA would have preferred something in the 140-180 seat range. There are no union issues - this is extra work, not transferred work, and no doubt there have been assurances given that the work will go in house as soon as there are enough planes and crews available; the routes are all within A320 series/737 range, and the airports concerned see A320 series/737s every day. I suspect they took the E190 originally because they could get it and Eastern is a regular BA wetlease resource for LCY flights so they are used to working together. With it temporarily unavailable, a quick check round the European ACMI operators found Privatair unexpectedly had a plane and crews available.

This was booked to be chartered to Lufthansa for an alternative route once PNQ ended, but allegedly Lufthansa cancelled the charter because of doubts about Privatair's financial position - this has to be questioned if the equally cautious BA are willing to use them.


Regarding your last point I’m sure the financial position of Privatair for a very short lease while a E190 is fixed is not hugely important compared to LH who want it as a long term thing.
 
c933103
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:38 pm

Andy33 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Also complimentary food and drink and no M&S buy onboard. Major upgrade. It’s a Lufthansa config and temporary while a Eastern E190 is being fixed that has been doing a lot of leasing for BA.

Is it that hard to find a sub-100 seat aircraft for short term temporary lease now that they have to get a 737 instead for the job?

Well there are restrictions: has to be from an ECAA registered airline or have special exemption to operate scheduled flights wholly within the ECAA; has to have the range to operate the routes, and has to fit the airports; airline has to have a large enough pilot and cabin crew pool to operate the timetable day in day out.

Why does BA need to wet-lease at all? Monarch Airlines (ZB) went bust. BA was able to purchase their LGW slot portfolio, at least partly to keep it out of the hands of competitors like Norwegian. LGW has a use-it-or-lose-it rule for slots, so BA was obliged to come up with flights to use the slots, and planes and crews to operate the slots. Given the timescale of the deal (it was finalised earlier this year), they weren't able to increase the size of their own fleet and their own crew pool in time to cover all the work for this summer, so they've been wet-leasing.
They don't need a sub-100 seat aircraft at all. All the other wet-leases are of standard all-economy/Eurobusiness 737s and A320 series planes, and I'm sure BA would have preferred something in the 140-180 seat range. There are no union issues - this is extra work, not transferred work, and no doubt there have been assurances given that the work will go in house as soon as there are enough planes and crews available; the routes are all within A320 series/737 range, and the airports concerned see A320 series/737s every day. I suspect they took the E190 originally because they could get it and Eastern is a regular BA wetlease resource for LCY flights so they are used to working together. With it temporarily unavailable, a quick check round the European ACMI operators found Privatair unexpectedly had a plane and crews available.

This was booked to be chartered to Lufthansa for an alternative route once PNQ ended, but allegedly Lufthansa cancelled the charter because of doubts about Privatair's financial position - this has to be questioned if the equally cautious BA are willing to use them.

- I thought Privatair is/was part of LH group?
And I thought LH need to keep Berlin slots after Airberlin burst too?
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
george77300
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:53 pm

c933103 wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Is it that hard to find a sub-100 seat aircraft for short term temporary lease now that they have to get a 737 instead for the job?

Well there are restrictions: has to be from an ECAA registered airline or have special exemption to operate scheduled flights wholly within the ECAA; has to have the range to operate the routes, and has to fit the airports; airline has to have a large enough pilot and cabin crew pool to operate the timetable day in day out.

Why does BA need to wet-lease at all? Monarch Airlines (ZB) went bust. BA was able to purchase their LGW slot portfolio, at least partly to keep it out of the hands of competitors like Norwegian. LGW has a use-it-or-lose-it rule for slots, so BA was obliged to come up with flights to use the slots, and planes and crews to operate the slots. Given the timescale of the deal (it was finalised earlier this year), they weren't able to increase the size of their own fleet and their own crew pool in time to cover all the work for this summer, so they've been wet-leasing.
They don't need a sub-100 seat aircraft at all. All the other wet-leases are of standard all-economy/Eurobusiness 737s and A320 series planes, and I'm sure BA would have preferred something in the 140-180 seat range. There are no union issues - this is extra work, not transferred work, and no doubt there have been assurances given that the work will go in house as soon as there are enough planes and crews available; the routes are all within A320 series/737 range, and the airports concerned see A320 series/737s every day. I suspect they took the E190 originally because they could get it and Eastern is a regular BA wetlease resource for LCY flights so they are used to working together. With it temporarily unavailable, a quick check round the European ACMI operators found Privatair unexpectedly had a plane and crews available.

This was booked to be chartered to Lufthansa for an alternative route once PNQ ended, but allegedly Lufthansa cancelled the charter because of doubts about Privatair's financial position - this has to be questioned if the equally cautious BA are willing to use them.

- I thought Privatair is/was part of LH group?
And I thought LH need to keep Berlin slots after Airberlin burst too?



Privatair is NOT part of the LH group. It’s a Geneva based leasing company. Although it currently has planes leased to LH and Eurowings it also has to Saudia.

As to Berlin slots I’m unsure how they work. They probably aren’t as lethal with the London (LGW/LHR) “use it or lose it” approach.
 
tjh8402
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ

Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:01 pm

RobK wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Also a mod could take BBJ out of title. It’s a standard Privatair B737 with a 20C/66Y. 86 total seats. BBJ makes it sound like some all J config or something.


It is a BBJ officially so the title is correct. It's frame YG064 which indicates it's factory built BBJ just like all the other YG0xx and YG1xx BBJ frames. The fact that it doesn't have an executive CEO-style interior doesn't change that.


A BBJ is actually structurally different than a 73G. It’s technically what was sold (to almost no one as an airliner) as a 737-700ER. It has wings, landing gear, and reinforcements from the -800 to enable a higher MTOW for longer range flights.
 
EZEflyerEMB
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:13 am

Just a note for members. The Eastern Airways E170 is no longer flying for BA mainline. It has now gone to stobart air for a short acmi contract. And both the E170s G-CIXW and G-CIXV will be returned in October and November this year to aid in the future of Eastern Airways.
 
Diverskii
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Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:31 pm

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:40 am

Unlikely that BA will be leasing from from Eastern again anytime soon - the CAA are watching Eastern closely.
 
Andy33
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:59 am

Diverskii wrote:
Unlikely that BA will be leasing from from Eastern again anytime soon - the CAA are watching Eastern closely.


What has happened to the Saab 2000 that has been leased from Eastern for LCY - IOM for years, then?
 
EZEflyerEMB
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:19 am

The 170 that's in Dusseldorf will remain operating for cityflyer until the end of the contract.

The CAA are indeed watching Eastern with a microscope.

And the Saab 2000 in IOM, there's been no information as of yet. However, it could be loganair have won the contract to operate, although we have to wait and see until its all official.
 
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CarbonFibre
Topic Author
Posts: 515
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:46 am

Just checked dates up until mid September on the BA website and the BBJ is still showing. Some of the fares are pretty cheap.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:56 am

Did I miss something? Why are the CAA flagging Eastern?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
ZuluTime
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Word on the street is that the Privatair 737 is operating for BA after they cancelled the contract with Eastern for the 170 due to reliability (or lack of it). I guess it's all BA could find to replace it at short notice.
 
jghealey
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Re: BA using Privatair BBJ?

Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:01 pm

Andy33 wrote:
Diverskii wrote:
Unlikely that BA will be leasing from from Eastern again anytime soon - the CAA are watching Eastern closely.


What has happened to the Saab 2000 that has been leased from Eastern for LCY - IOM for years, then?

A Saab 2000 from Eastern is still flying the IOM route (G-CIEC) albeit it's not the one in the BA livery, which has been at Humberside since 10 June.

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