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FromGSPtoChi
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British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:54 am

Is this unique to London City or does PHX have this issue?

British Airways booted 20 passengers off one flights from London City Airport - because the hot weather made the plane too heavy.

The airline said the blistering 95 degree heat affected the air pressure, meaning aircraft could not take off unless they shed weight.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/07/2 ... heavy.html
 
Ryanair01
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:19 am

An article explaining why regional jet operations at both PHX and LCY have issues in the heat :D

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/why-planes-too-hot-to-fly-heat-aircraft/
 
sandbender
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:20 am

The issue at London City's is the 1508m runway which is shorter than all the runways at Phoenix (2377m, 3139m and 3502m). The extra length allows take off even with the reduced aircraft performance in high heat. With that said, 95F (36C) is a "nice" summer day in Phoenix. AA cancelled flights last year because of concern the temperature was outside the operating range of the planes. Specifically the CRJ's were limited to 117.86F (47.7C). AA raised their limits for the CRJ to 123.8F (51C) this year. For reference the runways at LAS (McCarran in Las Vegas) which also has extreme temperatures are 2740m, 2978m, 3208m and 4423m.
 
Antarius
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:29 am

Such is the nature of cheating nature by flying in a metal tube high up in the sky - operational issues happen due to conditions such as heat and rain and wind and adjustments must be made.

The article is a bunch of emotional drivel. Most people dont fly for fun, so they are on that flight for a reason. The article acts as though BA purposely chose people who had to travel to kick off. "Didnt care at all" implies that someone else should have been kicked off instead... which is impossible to know what everyone was flying for or how "worthy" their reasons are for traveling.
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TedToToe
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:53 am

Fox competing with the Daily Mail there, for sensationalist headlines. They weren't 'kicked' or 'booted' off; they were told they couldn't board!
 
abrelosojos
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:56 am

Pretty common on hot/high locations.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
FromGSPtoChi
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:04 am

Ryanair01 wrote:
An article explaining why regional jet operations at both PHX and LCY have issues in the heat :D

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/why-planes-too-hot-to-fly-heat-aircraft/


Thanks. Great Info.
 
VSMUT
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:14 am

Pretty common in high temperatures. The other day it was 36 degrees in Köln-Bonn, and we were quite limited.

FromGSPtoChi wrote:
The airline said the blistering 95 degree heat affected the air pressure, meaning aircraft could not take off unless they shed weight.


Must be a typo, there is absolutely no way the temperature can reach 95 degrees. Life isn't even possible under those temperatures.
 
sandbender
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:34 am

VSMUT wrote:
Must be a typo, there is absolutely no way the temperature can reach 95 degrees. Life isn't even possible under those temperatures.


95F = 35C. Though my wife would agree that life isn't possible at that temperature.

Some British media still cling to Fahrenheit (and will even switch to make better headlines https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/dec/29/newspapers-run-hot-and-cold-over-celsius-and-fahrenheit).

(just as possible VSMUT meant it as a joke)
Last edited by sandbender on Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
juliuswong
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:35 am

VSMUT wrote:
Pretty common in high temperatures. The other day it was 36 degrees in Köln-Bonn, and we were quite limited.

FromGSPtoChi wrote:
The airline said the blistering 95 degree heat affected the air pressure, meaning aircraft could not take off unless they shed weight.


Must be a typo, there is absolutely no way the temperature can reach 95 degrees. Life isn't even possible under those temperatures.

I think he means 95 degree Fahrenheit, which means 35 degree Celsius.
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Feroze
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:01 am

VSMUT wrote:
Pretty common in high temperatures. The other day it was 36 degrees in Köln-Bonn, and we were quite limited.

FromGSPtoChi wrote:
The airline said the blistering 95 degree heat affected the air pressure, meaning aircraft could not take off unless they shed weight.


Must be a typo, there is absolutely no way the temperature can reach 95 degrees. Life isn't even possible under those temperatures.



35 degrees Celsius = 95 degrees Fahrenheit.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:04 am

FromGSPtoChi wrote:
Is this unique to London City or does PHX have this issue?

British Airways booted 20 passengers off one flights from London City Airport - because the hot weather made the plane too heavy.

The airline said the blistering 95 degree heat affected the air pressure, meaning aircraft could not take off unless they shed weight.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/07/2 ... heavy.html


Yes, nothing uncommon really, particularly at hot/high/short runway airports.

It's a daily occurrence in Florence with either hot weather or a bit of wind affecting performance.
 
jupiter2
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:04 am

sandbender wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Must be a typo, there is absolutely no way the temperature can reach 95 degrees. Life isn't even possible under those temperatures.


95F = 35C. Though my wife would agree that life isn't possible at that temperature.

Some British media still cling to Fahrenheit (and will even switch to make better headlines https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/dec/29/newspapers-run-hot-and-cold-over-celsius-and-fahrenheit).

(just as possible VSMUT meant it as a joke)


Pleasant summers day, just shows you how soft Poms are :stirthepot:
 
SCQ83
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:15 am

I imagine being LCY-IBZ most people were on holidays and taking more checked luggage than a typical LCY flight?

I reckon your typical LCY-Euro capital catered to business travellers usually has little checked luggage.
 
sandbender
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:18 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I imagine being LCY-IBZ most people were on holidays and taking more checked luggage than a typical LCY flight?


IBZ? Only an extra kilo or two.
 
747-600X
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:45 am

Yes, this is an issue in PHX, as well as in all other airports where the temperature gets very high and/or the field elevation is high. It's also a significant problem in Las Vegas and Denver, as well as other airports around the world.

The length of an airport's runways is of little help. Denver has a 16,000-foot runway, but aircraft tires have speed limits. You can only get going so fast before you exceed the tire speed limit, and that speed may be well below what's necessary to take off in 40C temperatures. In Phoenix and Las Vegas, regional jets are routinely weight-restricted when temperatures are above 100F. Airlines publish daily (internal) documents listing seat caps for flights out of those airports. This also happens, for example, in Salt Lake City - and it's certainly not just regional jets. 737-900s are notorious for being unable to perform adequately in hot temperatures. Even at sea level, an MD-90 attempting to go from Miami to Detroit may take a weight restriction.

So, in short, it's a problem all over the world. Whenever the temperature goes up, the performance of the plane goes down. It's not a unique or rare situation at all.
 
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enilria
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:41 am

Heat and wind based weight restrictions have been around since the airplane was invented and are in no way a tracker of any change in climate.
 
sandbender
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:04 pm

Current conditions in Phoenix give a density altitude of 1160m (Sky Harbor is 346m). Holding everything else the same but dropping the temperature from 33.34C to 23.34C (~20F difference) gives a density altitude of 822m, 338m or 1110ft difference.

Air Density Calculator
 
SCQ83
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

sandbender wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I imagine being LCY-IBZ most people were on holidays and taking more checked luggage than a typical LCY flight?


IBZ? Only an extra kilo or two.


How many people check luggage on a typical LCY-FRA or LCY-AMS flight on a business day? I am sure a very small % since most of those are business trips for 1-2 days and part of the allure of LCY is quick access (so hand luggage only). Also how many of those flights get 100% load factor?

LCY-IBZ is another story since many of that people will be checking in luggage and in peak season you can have a guaranteed 100% load factor.

So add a difference of only 10 PAX (so let's say 750 kg) and 10 kg of luggage by person (so let's say 1000 kg) and you are 1.750 kg above a typical business flight.
 
Bhoy
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:28 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
sandbender wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
So add a difference of only 10 PAX (so let's say 750 kg) and 10 kg of luggage by person (so let's say 1000 kg) and you are 1.750 kg above a typical business flight.

Not quite right - the assumption you've made there is that the 'typical business flight' load to IBZ has no checked luggage, so even if it's only 10 pax more than a normal load, you can assume that the normal business load's worth of pax would also be checking luggage on this trip, so the extra weight would in fact be 1750kg + 10a where 'a' equals 'a normal business load' worth of pax'. ;-)
 
SCQ83
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:01 pm

Bhoy wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
sandbender wrote:

Not quite right - the assumption you've made there is that the 'typical business flight' load to IBZ has no checked luggage, so even if it's only 10 pax more than a normal load, you can assume that the normal business load's worth of pax would also be checking luggage on this trip, so the extra weight would in fact be 1750kg + 10a where 'a' equals 'a normal business load' worth of pax'. ;-)


? I am assuming that in a holiday flight like IBZ (particularly at this time of the year) way more passengers check-in luggage than in a mid-week urban flight where most passengers are only for 1 or 2 days hence no need to check luggage for the overwhelming majority of them.

So if I in one you have 75% checking and in the other 25% and you have a typical luggage of 20 kg, that is 10 kg more per PAX.

It would be interesting to have real figures, but I assume that is the reason why this flight and no other had this problem. 100% load + a lot of checked luggage.
 
727200
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:24 pm

Basic physics; why is this an issue? I guess 'news' outlets must have had very slow day. Solution is less journalists.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:31 pm

enilria wrote:
Heat and wind based weight restrictions have been around since the airplane was invented and are in no way a tracker of any change in climate.

Are you trying to claim that increased weather restrictions do not mean increased weather events?
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:32 pm

747-600X wrote:
This also happens, for example, in Salt Lake City - and it's certainly not just regional jets.


I got whacked in this manner at SLC when my DL RJ was scheduled to leave at 8 PM! and it almost happened to me on a UA RJ in Omaha three weeks later. That one took some creative algebra on the part of the pilot and ground crew, judging from the traffic at the front of the cabin.
 
Prost
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:52 pm

When they start counting how many children are on board you know it’s close.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:51 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
? I am assuming that in a holiday flight like IBZ (particularly at this time of the year) way more passengers check-in luggage than in a mid-week urban flight where most passengers are only for 1 or 2 days hence no need to check luggage for the overwhelming majority of them.

So if I in one you have 75% checking and in the other 25% and you have a typical luggage of 20 kg, that is 10 kg more per PAX.

It would be interesting to have real figures, but I assume that is the reason why this flight and no other had this problem. 100% load + a lot of checked luggage.

According to the article in the thread opener, fourteen flights were affected. It's not just the IBZ flight. http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/07/2 ... heavy.html

The airport said, “London City Airport was affected by the extreme heat which meant, to operate safely, unfortunately passengers needed to be offloaded from 14 British Airways flights."
 
okjet
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:52 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

Not quite right - the assumption you've made there is that the 'typical business flight' load to IBZ has no checked luggage, so even if it's only 10 pax more than a normal load, you can assume that the normal business load's worth of pax would also be checking luggage on this trip, so the extra weight would in fact be 1750kg + 10a where 'a' equals 'a normal business load' worth of pax'. ;-)


? I am assuming that in a holiday flight like IBZ (particularly at this time of the year) way more passengers check-in luggage than in a mid-week urban flight where most passengers are only for 1 or 2 days hence no need to check luggage for the overwhelming majority of them.

So if I in one you have 75% checking and in the other 25% and you have a typical luggage of 20 kg, that is 10 kg more per PAX.

It would be interesting to have real figures, but I assume that is the reason why this flight and no other had this problem. 100% load + a lot of checked luggage.


Well once an airline starts offloading pax due to weight restrictions you can be 100% sure all bags are already offloaded. That is a standard procedure, cargo/mail goes first, then bags and if that is not enough you need to start offloading pax.
 
StrandedAtMKG
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:30 pm

sandbender wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I imagine being LCY-IBZ most people were on holidays and taking more checked luggage than a typical LCY flight?


IBZ? Only an extra kilo or two.


I snorted.
 
Prost
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:10 pm

StrandedAtMKG wrote:
I snorted.


At least your honest!
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:11 pm

MEX is at 2400 meter ASL and yesterday it was 30 celsius ....I used the calculator for altitude....3466 M ASL holy cow and me in a 21K race...

Aeromexico had lot of trouble in the northern desert states with Embraers (the small ones) Even Mexicana Back in the day had issues with 722 ADV due to weight/temperature/altitude. Heck Even Aeromexico and Maxican had special built DC-10 for this reason.

Sensationalistic articles... nothing new under the sun (pun intended)

TRB
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MIflyer12
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:13 pm

enilria wrote:
Heat and wind based weight restrictions have been around since the airplane was invented and are in no way a tracker of any change in climate.


You can assert weight restrictions aren't a tracker of climate change, but it's broadly acknowledged that climate change will present more frequent operational problems to aviation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/busi ... hange.html
 
axiom
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:34 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
enilria wrote:
Heat and wind based weight restrictions have been around since the airplane was invented and are in no way a tracker of any change in climate.

Are you trying to claim that increased weather restrictions do not mean increased weather events?


Apparently he thinks the world needs another climate change skeptic.
 
axiom
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:37 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Heat and wind based weight restrictions have been around since the airplane was invented and are in no way a tracker of any change in climate.


You can assert weight restrictions aren't a tracker of climate change, but it's broadly acknowledged that climate change will present more frequent operational problems to aviation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/busi ... hange.html


+1
 
chonetsao
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:40 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Heat and wind based weight restrictions have been around since the airplane was invented and are in no way a tracker of any change in climate.


You can assert weight restrictions aren't a tracker of climate change, but it's broadly acknowledged that climate change will present more frequent operational problems to aviation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/busi ... hange.html


Yeah, it is from New York Times, it must be true...ahhh, hold on, there are too many 'may's and 'may not' and 'could' in this article.
Last edited by chonetsao on Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
axiom
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:41 pm

chonetsao wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Heat and wind based weight restrictions have been around since the airplane was invented and are in no way a tracker of any change in climate.


You can assert weight restrictions aren't a tracker of climate change, but it's broadly acknowledged that climate change will present more frequent operational problems to aviation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/busi ... hange.html


Yeah, it is from New York Times, it must be true...ahhh, hold on, this is an opinion piece, not factual reporting.


There is no evidence that this is an opinion piece.

This forum is for factual events impacting the aviation community. Climate change is a fact. It will impact aviation. The article is a perfectly valid contribution to that conversation. It takes this fact, places it in an aviation context with expert interviews, and uses physics to discuss the impacts climate change will have on aviation.

What is the problem?
 
chonetsao
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:47 pm

axiom wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

You can assert weight restrictions aren't a tracker of climate change, but it's broadly acknowledged that climate change will present more frequent operational problems to aviation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/busi ... hange.html


Yeah, it is from New York Times, it must be true...ahhh, hold on, this is an opinion piece, not factual reporting.


There is no evidence that this is an opinion piece.

This forum is for factual events impacting the aviation community. Climate change is a fact. It will impact aviation. The article is a perfectly valid contribution to that conversation. It takes this fact, places it in an aviation context with expert interviews, and uses physics to discuss the impacts climate change will have on aviation.

What is the problem?


Laura Einsetler, a captain for a major domestic airline who runs her own aviation blog, said in her experience, flying conditions had become more extreme in the last four or five years. “We always used to course-deviate, but it didn’t feel like this type of anger in the world with global climate change. It definitely feels like we need to be more on our toes.”


Is above statement 'opinion' or 'factual'? Is so, what is the 'fact'.

Also this:
In 2015, Radley Horton, a research scientist at Columbia University’s Earth Institute, published a joint study with a Ph.D. student, Ethan Coffel, on the effect of extreme heat on aviation. The conclusion: “We can say with confidence that there will be more weight-restricted days, and larger weight restrictions,” he said.


Is above conclusion 'opinion' or 'factual'? How can a judgement for a future event be 'factual'?

No I have no problem with NYT. I am just merely pointing out this article is more opinionated than factual for me.
 
axiom
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:00 pm

chonetsao wrote:
axiom wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Yeah, it is from New York Times, it must be true...ahhh, hold on, this is an opinion piece, not factual reporting.


There is no evidence that this is an opinion piece.

This forum is for factual events impacting the aviation community. Climate change is a fact. It will impact aviation. The article is a perfectly valid contribution to that conversation. It takes this fact, places it in an aviation context with expert interviews, and uses physics to discuss the impacts climate change will have on aviation.

What is the problem?


Laura Einsetler, a captain for a major domestic airline who runs her own aviation blog, said in her experience, flying conditions had become more extreme in the last four or five years. “We always used to course-deviate, but it didn’t feel like this type of anger in the world with global climate change. It definitely feels like we need to be more on our toes.”


Is above statement 'opinion' or 'factual'? Is so, what is the 'fact'.

Also this:
In 2015, Radley Horton, a research scientist at Columbia University’s Earth Institute, published a joint study with a Ph.D. student, Ethan Coffel, on the effect of extreme heat on aviation. The conclusion: “We can say with confidence that there will be more weight-restricted days, and larger weight restrictions,” he said.


Is above conclusion 'opinion' or 'factual'? How can a judgement for a future event be 'factual'?

No I have no problem with NYT. I am just merely pointing out this article is more opinionated than factual for me.


It is generally not possible to downsample from large scale climate models to highly specific regional projections of climate change, nor to generalise about climate change from isolated weather events. This does not negate climate science - but it represents a practical barrier to understanding it in relation to our individual experiences. We do know that the climate is changing, and that the laws of physics inform aviation. Ergo, we can have a very reasonable and informed conversation about the impacts of climate change on aviation.

Writers often use individual testimony from informed and credible witnesses or experts to augment this. Whether or not this rhetorical strategy compels you or not in this context is another matter. In my (informed) opinion, these are two valid and helpful perspectives for understanding the issue. The researchers are about as credible as science gets.

There is no perfect way to communicate about climate change. It is complex, amorphous, and potentially catastrophic to our way of life. However, I don't really buy the argument that this is "opinion for me." You are conveying, at best, a critique of basic scientific integrity, and that strikes me as trolling.
 
DaveFly
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:28 am

I can recall an MD-80 flight from Albuquerque to Chicago in summer temps, where passengers were asked to deplane (voluntarily). Albuquerque has a long runway, but even as a frequent flier, that plane clawed its way into the air. The wings shuddered very noticeably at rotation, and the passengers were quite flummoxed.
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maxholstemh1521
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:42 am

okjet wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
Not quite right - the assumption you've made there is that the 'typical business flight' load to IBZ has no checked luggage, so even if it's only 10 pax more than a normal load, you can assume that the normal business load's worth of pax would also be checking luggage on this trip, so the extra weight would in fact be 1750kg + 10a where 'a' equals 'a normal business load' worth of pax'. ;-)


? I am assuming that in a holiday flight like IBZ (particularly at this time of the year) way more passengers check-in luggage than in a mid-week urban flight where most passengers are only for 1 or 2 days hence no need to check luggage for the overwhelming majority of them.

So if I in one you have 75% checking and in the other 25% and you have a typical luggage of 20 kg, that is 10 kg more per PAX.

It would be interesting to have real figures, but I assume that is the reason why this flight and no other had this problem. 100% load + a lot of checked luggage.


Well once an airline starts offloading pax due to weight restrictions you can be 100% sure all bags are already offloaded. That is a standard procedure, cargo/mail goes first, then bags and if that is not enough you need to start offloading pax.


I don't think that's correct. At my airline we will offload cargo, and mail first, then passengers. If the passengers we offload have checked bags their checked bag comes off as well. We won't send a flight with no checked luggage, since it is a huge disservice to the passengers.
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69bug
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Re: British Airways kicks 20 passengers off flight because heat wave made plane too heavy

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:01 am

SCQ83 wrote:
sandbender wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I imagine being LCY-IBZ most people were on holidays and taking more checked luggage than a typical LCY flight?


IBZ? Only an extra kilo or two.


How many people check luggage on a typical LCY-FRA or LCY-AMS flight on a business day? I am sure a very small % since most of those are business trips for 1-2 days and part of the allure of LCY is quick access (so hand luggage only). Also how many of those flights get 100% load factor?

LCY-IBZ is another story since many of that people will be checking in luggage and in peak season you can have a guaranteed 100% load factor.

So add a difference of only 10 PAX (so let's say 750 kg) and 10 kg of luggage by person (so let's say 1000 kg) and you are 1.750 kg above a typical business flight.


A bit of side-tracking here. I worked for a major European airline doing weight and balance. Passenger weights used for calculating aircraft take-off weights are an average and take into account the hand-baggage. The passenger weights used for long-haul flights are typically 5kgs 'less' than for intra-euro flights. The rationale was more people would hand-carry their luggage on short flights but would not have as much hand-carry on long-haul flights (this was about 20 years ago). There was also a procedure to manually adjust the weight in special case. For example if a big group of Sumo wrestlers were traveling this would have a measurable impact on the weight and trimming so we would adjust accordingly.

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