jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:13 pm

I didnt see this posted. Rather big news if you ask me. Saves DL a few pennies. With Casey Cagel out of the picture, this doesnt surprise me and that it happened so fast is rather telling.


Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal signed an executive order Monday to stop collecting sales tax on jet fuel effective Wednesday, a tax the legislature kept in place this year to penalize Delta Air Lines.
The Georgia legislature debated dropping the 4% sales and use tax on jet fuel this year as part of a broader tax overhaul. But lawmakers kept the tax in place in retaliation for Delta halting a discount program with the National Rifle Association.
Deal noted that Georgia airports generate $62 billion in economic activity each year, with flights at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport supporting $11 billion in investment and 42,000 jobs across the state.



Entire article here


https://www.news-press.com/story/travel ... 866002002/
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 2277
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:18 pm

Pure politics based on the results of last week's gubernatorial primary runoff election.
 
kiowa
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:22 pm

I would like to see a comparison of the major airline hubs and how much tax is on fuel at each one.
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:22 pm

litz wrote:
Pure politics based on the results of last week's gubernatorial primary runoff election.



thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.
 
pipeafcr
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:47 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:29 pm

Nice
Felipe Carrillo
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5747
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:32 pm

jumbojet wrote:
litz wrote:
Pure politics based on the results of last week's gubernatorial primary runoff election.



thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Youre reaching too hard. Taxes are where we as a society get our revenue to have things like roads and schools. Why shouldnt DL or any other carrier pay their fair share?
Religion is the root of evil...
 
adtall
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:38 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
litz wrote:
Pure politics based on the results of last week's gubernatorial primary runoff election.



thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Youre reaching too hard. Taxes are where we as a society get our revenue to have things like roads and schools. Why shouldnt DL or any other carrier pay their fair share?


Except the whole thing was pure politics at the start with the NRA fare issue and Cagle pushed the tax through for payback from Delta for electoral advantage (NRA supporters). Given Cagle has since lost, and Deal never supported the tax to begin with, why not remedy a silly political payback decision? It's not like Delta doesn't pay state income tax, airport fees and rental charges, etc. and the other airlines will benefit from lifting the tax too.
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:39 pm

adtall wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:


thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Youre reaching too hard. Taxes are where we as a society get our revenue to have things like roads and schools. Why shouldnt DL or any other carrier pay their fair share?


Except the whole thing was pure politics at the start with the NRA fare issue and Cagle pushed the tax through for payback from Delta for electoral advantage (NRA supporters). Given Cagle has since lost, and Deal never supported the tax to begin with, why not remedy a silly political payback decision? It's not like Delta doesn't pay state income tax, airport fees and rental charges, etc. and the other airlines will benefit from lifting the tax too.



:checkmark:
 
IndyHoosier
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:35 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:52 pm

adtall wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:


thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Youre reaching too hard. Taxes are where we as a society get our revenue to have things like roads and schools. Why shouldnt DL or any other carrier pay their fair share?


Except the whole thing was pure politics at the start with the NRA fare issue and Cagle pushed the tax through for payback from Delta for electoral advantage (NRA supporters). Given Cagle has since lost, and Deal never supported the tax to begin with, why not remedy a silly political payback decision? It's not like Delta doesn't pay state income tax, airport fees and rental charges, etc. and the other airlines will benefit from lifting the tax too.


Agreed 100%
 
kalvado
Posts: 1813
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:08 pm

adtall wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:


thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Youre reaching too hard. Taxes are where we as a society get our revenue to have things like roads and schools. Why shouldnt DL or any other carrier pay their fair share?


Except the whole thing was pure politics at the start with the NRA fare issue and Cagle pushed the tax through for payback from Delta for electoral advantage (NRA supporters). Given Cagle has since lost, and Deal never supported the tax to begin with, why not remedy a silly political payback decision? It's not like Delta doesn't pay state income tax, airport fees and rental charges, etc. and the other airlines will benefit from lifting the tax too.

Not taxing certain articles so that certain company can benefit from that is neither politics nor government subsidy to begin with... < /sarcasm>
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:10 pm

Does Georgia have surplus tax revenue?
 
HunterATL
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 pm

Collection of the tax was suspended because it violated federal law. The FAA has been clear that aviation fuel taxes are subject to the federal rules regarding airport revenues and may only be used for airport projects.


The aviation jet fuel tax in Georgia was collected almost exclusively by Clayton County, where ATL was located. Clayton County used the tax money to fund its schools in violation of federal law. The FAA informed Clayton County that its collection of the tax violated federal law. Clayton County sued the FAA claiming the revenue rule was illegal, but the 11th Circuit held that Clayton had waited far too long to bring its claims in April or May of this year.

After Clayton County lost its federal lawsuit, the Governor ordered a suspension of the tax collection in order to ensure that the entire state did not lose federal aviation funding. This had nothing to do with Delta or local politics. This was simply a decision to bring Georgia law into compliance with federal regulations regarding aviation taxes and fees. This is also why there are virtually no jet fuel aviation taxes in the United States because the taxing authorities are rarely the owners and operators of the airports at which the tax is levied and collected.
 
Janj
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:24 pm

kiowa wrote:
I would like to see a comparison of the major airline hubs and how much tax is on fuel at each one.


No sales tax on jet fuel in North Carolina at least, as of a couple years ago.

The tax only applied to the fuel that was spent in North Carolina (so flights departing to the south immediately paid barely anything, and flights in other directions still paid very little). In addition, there was a cap of $2.5 million, so it's nothing more than a rounding error for American Airlines, and no other airlines even reached that number. Still, I guess the elected officials think Charlotte is just like Pittsburgh.
 
adtall
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:30 pm

Georgia must by law have a balanced budget so no deficit issues (fun fact; if the budget becomes unbalanced during the course of the year, the governor must by law reconvene the legislature in a special session to fix it). GA also has a AAA credit rating, so no real issues with revenues especially considering the growing economy here.
 
winginit
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:41 pm

jumbojet wrote:
litz wrote:
Pure politics based on the results of last week's gubernatorial primary runoff election.



thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


ATL is still in the running for Amazon's HQ2 correct? If so you could see that being another driver - to go through with revoking the tax break for Delta would slam the door shut in terms of Atlanta being a possible Amazon HQ2 pick.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:48 pm

winginit wrote:
ATL is still in the running for Amazon's HQ2 correct? If so you could see that being another driver - to go through with revoking the tax break for Delta would slam the door shut in terms of Atlanta being a possible Amazon HQ2 pick.


Delta's $40 Million tax credit is a loose change compared to HQ2 incentives. Michigan lost the bid at $4 Billion. Imagine how much winning city/state has to shell out.
 
0newair0
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:12 pm

HunterATL wrote:
Collection of the tax was suspended because it violated federal law. The FAA has been clear that aviation fuel taxes are subject to the federal rules regarding airport revenues and may only be used for airport projects.


The aviation jet fuel tax in Georgia was collected almost exclusively by Clayton County, where ATL was located. Clayton County used the tax money to fund its schools in violation of federal law. The FAA informed Clayton County that its collection of the tax violated federal law. Clayton County sued the FAA claiming the revenue rule was illegal, but the 11th Circuit held that Clayton had waited far too long to bring its claims in April or May of this year.

After Clayton County lost its federal lawsuit, the Governor ordered a suspension of the tax collection in order to ensure that the entire state did not lose federal aviation funding. This had nothing to do with Delta or local politics. This was simply a decision to bring Georgia law into compliance with federal regulations regarding aviation taxes and fees. This is also why there are virtually no jet fuel aviation taxes in the United States because the taxing authorities are rarely the owners and operators of the airports at which the tax is levied and collected.


You are combining two separate issues. The Clayton County misuse of taxes is separate and unrelated to this executive order that was just signed and restores the tax exemption that was taken away in March.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
HunterATL
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:22 pm

I am not. The Governor stated clearly that because the tax funds were not used to fund the airport, they violated federal law. The FAA had informed Clayton County of the fact that if the county collected the tax, it had to give it to ATL which the county refused to do. See chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://media.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/files/201710210.pdf,

The sole reason the governor suspended collection of the state tax is because the revenues were not being used to support aviation and the airport as required by federal law. See chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://dor.georgia.gov/sites/dor.georgia.gov/files/Policy%20Bulletin%20SUT%202018-03%20Local%20Sales%20Tax%20on%20Jet%20Fuel%20Sales.pdf.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 2406
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:27 pm

waste of money...Delta made 1.6b last quarter
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2452
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:29 pm

This suspension is only temporary.until the Georgia Assembly reconvenes in January 2019. Per Georgia law...

The code section states, “The Governor may suspend the collection of taxes, or any part thereof, due the state until the meeting of the next General Assembly but no longer; but he shall not otherwise interfere with the collection of taxes.”


It will be up the Georgia Assembly to agree with the governor or reinstate the taxes.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:32 pm

This had the potential to be disastrous. The 11th Circuit saved GA from itself.
 
winginit
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:29 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:
ATL is still in the running for Amazon's HQ2 correct? If so you could see that being another driver - to go through with revoking the tax break for Delta would slam the door shut in terms of Atlanta being a possible Amazon HQ2 pick.


Delta's $40 Million tax credit is a loose change compared to HQ2 incentives. Michigan lost the bid at $4 Billion. Imagine how much winning city/state has to shell out.


It's hardly the size of the Delta incentive that matters. What could matter to Amazon is that the political landscape in Georgia is such that what was perceived as a political stance by Delta lead to the reaction that we saw - a reaction that was truly unprecedented. That in and of itself could be enough to spook Amazon.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:37 am

winginit wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:
ATL is still in the running for Amazon's HQ2 correct? If so you could see that being another driver - to go through with revoking the tax break for Delta would slam the door shut in terms of Atlanta being a possible Amazon HQ2 pick.


Delta's $40 Million tax credit is a loose change compared to HQ2 incentives. Michigan lost the bid at $4 Billion. Imagine how much winning city/state has to shell out.


It's hardly the size of the Delta incentive that matters. What could matter to Amazon is that the political landscape in Georgia is such that what was perceived as a political stance by Delta lead to the reaction that we saw - a reaction that was truly unprecedented. That in and of itself could be enough to spook Amazon.



Are you saying even if GA/Atlanta offers $10B incentives Amazon will not open HQ2 there based on some perception based on Delta incentives? The answer is No.

Even Seattle thinks Amazon screwed-up their real estate market and started taxing heavily.

HQ2 will result in WFR at HQ1, How should Seattle feel about Amazon starting HQ2 bidding process?

Companies always scout for next big incentive or next cheap labor destination.
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:50 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Delta's $40 Million tax credit is a loose change compared to HQ2 incentives. Michigan lost the bid at $4 Billion. Imagine how much winning city/state has to shell out.


It's hardly the size of the Delta incentive that matters. What could matter to Amazon is that the political landscape in Georgia is such that what was perceived as a political stance by Delta lead to the reaction that we saw - a reaction that was truly unprecedented. That in and of itself could be enough to spook Amazon.



Are you saying even if GA/Atlanta offers $10B incentives Amazon will not open HQ2 there based on some perception based on Delta incentives? The answer is No.

Even Seattle thinks Amazon screwed-up their real estate market and started taxing heavily.

HQ2 will result in WFR at HQ1, How should Seattle feel about Amazon starting HQ2 bidding process?

Companies always scout for next big incentive or next cheap labor destination.


Michigan was never in the running for HQ2. Nor is Chicago in my eyes, as much as I try to root for this place. Northern states are not friendly to large corporations. Don't get me started on my escapade to get foriegn qualification to operate in IL... With a business that has no assets right now.

I really think Amazon is looking at a southern, low tax, business friendly city. ATL prob doesn't fit that, but I could see another city fit the bill. (I forgot the rest off of the top of my head)

Hell, they could go after CMH or PIT. We don't know. The process is so secretive for a reason.

Michigan can throw some incentives at me to move my business there, as we are exploring a move to GRR right now :D
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:54 pm

Good for DL
@DadCelo
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:23 pm

This is about fuel tax not Amazon HQ2
 
kiowa
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:52 pm

Janj wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I would like to see a comparison of the major airline hubs and how much tax is on fuel at each one.


No sales tax on jet fuel in North Carolina at least, as of a couple years ago.

The tax only applied to the fuel that was spent in North Carolina (so flights departing to the south immediately paid barely anything, and flights in other directions still paid very little). In addition, there was a cap of $2.5 million, so it's nothing more than a rounding error for American Airlines, and no other airlines even reached that number. Still, I guess the elected officials think Charlotte is just like Pittsburgh.



I remember reading that Illinois had a tax of over 32 cents on jet fuel. ORD could be more.
 
catiii
Posts: 3077
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:03 pm

jumbojet wrote:
litz wrote:
Pure politics based on the results of last week's gubernatorial primary runoff election.



thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Amazing political spin by you. On the one hand you were out there defending Delta for fighting ME3 subsidies, but when the subsidy benefits Delta (Chapter 11, dumping their pensions, getting a corporate carve out on fuel) you're ok.

Hypocrisy abounds...
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:06 pm

winginit wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:
ATL is still in the running for Amazon's HQ2 correct? If so you could see that being another driver - to go through with revoking the tax break for Delta would slam the door shut in terms of Atlanta being a possible Amazon HQ2 pick.


Delta's $40 Million tax credit is a loose change compared to HQ2 incentives. Michigan lost the bid at $4 Billion. Imagine how much winning city/state has to shell out.


It's hardly the size of the Delta incentive that matters. What could matter to Amazon is that the political landscape in Georgia is such that what was perceived as a political stance by Delta lead to the reaction that we saw - a reaction that was truly unprecedented. That in and of itself could be enough to spook Amazon.


I agree 100% and when I consider that it was in retaliation about an NRA discount on Delta being discontinued that the retribution was put in place, I and every right-thinking human being will do everything in our power to avoid Georgia altogether.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:14 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:

It's hardly the size of the Delta incentive that matters. What could matter to Amazon is that the political landscape in Georgia is such that what was perceived as a political stance by Delta lead to the reaction that we saw - a reaction that was truly unprecedented. That in and of itself could be enough to spook Amazon.



Are you saying even if GA/Atlanta offers $10B incentives Amazon will not open HQ2 there based on some perception based on Delta incentives? The answer is No.

Even Seattle thinks Amazon screwed-up their real estate market and started taxing heavily.

HQ2 will result in WFR at HQ1, How should Seattle feel about Amazon starting HQ2 bidding process?

Companies always scout for next big incentive or next cheap labor destination.


Michigan was never in the running for HQ2. Nor is Chicago in my eyes, as much as I try to root for this place. Northern states are not friendly to large corporations. Don't get me started on my escapade to get foriegn qualification to operate in IL... With a business that has no assets right now.

I really think Amazon is looking at a southern, low tax, business friendly city. ATL prob doesn't fit that, but I could see another city fit the bill. (I forgot the rest off of the top of my head)

Hell, they could go after CMH or PIT. We don't know. The process is so secretive for a reason.

Michigan can throw some incentives at me to move my business there, as we are exploring a move to GRR right now :D


What about Charlotte? They have a huge AA hub there, and they can recruit from Georgia and the Triangle.

As for the base issue, if the tax is reinstated, I could see a federal lawsuit.
 
winginit
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:15 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Are you saying even if GA/Atlanta offers $10B incentives Amazon will not open HQ2 there based on some perception based on Delta incentives? The answer is No.


What I'm saying is that even if GA/ATL offers $10B in incentives Amazon will think long and hard about whether they want to have a head office in a state where Georgia state legislators financially retaliated against one of their largest corporations for making a relatively minor political statement. That retaliation was unprecedented, and if all else was equal I'm of the opinion that Bezos would look at that and go "ya know, maybe I'll setup shop somewhere else"
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:24 pm

winginit wrote:
... Bezos would look at that and go "ya know, maybe I'll setup shop somewhere else"


Yes, he will go somewhere with $15 Billion offer.

American Inc, is brutal in collecting incentives. Rather than creating jobs in economically weak states, they are milking $$Billions from the same.

Does Boeing need $3 Billion from South Carolina in incentives? Something is really wrong here.
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3663
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:24 pm

Fuel is fuel.. this should be applied to gasoline and diesel as well.
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:30 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Delta's $40 Million tax credit is a loose change compared to HQ2 incentives. Michigan lost the bid at $4 Billion. Imagine how much winning city/state has to shell out.


It's hardly the size of the Delta incentive that matters. What could matter to Amazon is that the political landscape in Georgia is such that what was perceived as a political stance by Delta lead to the reaction that we saw - a reaction that was truly unprecedented. That in and of itself could be enough to spook Amazon.



Are you saying even if GA/Atlanta offers $10B incentives Amazon will not open HQ2 there based on some perception based on Delta incentives? The answer is No.

Even Seattle thinks Amazon screwed-up their real estate market and started taxing heavily.

HQ2 will result in WFR at HQ1, How should Seattle feel about Amazon starting HQ2 bidding process?

Companies always scout for next big incentive or next cheap labor destination.


It was more for the reason of tax restatement Delta dropping NRA discounts. Of course it not about the 40 million but politics.
 
winginit
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:32 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
winginit wrote:
... Bezos would look at that and go "ya know, maybe I'll setup shop somewhere else"


Yes, he will go somewhere with $15 Billion offer.


You'll note that in my post I clarified that he might be inclined to leave GA/ATL and go elsewhere even if all else was equal ie the incentive amount.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2452
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:15 pm

TS-IOR wrote:
Fuel is fuel.. this should be applied to gasoline and diesel as well.


I agree if Joe Schmo has pay taxes on fuel for his kia, so should air operators for their fuel
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:23 pm

Is this a civil aviation forum or where Amazon is going to build?
 
User avatar
exFWAOONW
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:53 pm

Like almost every other thread, it's both.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
nmdrdh787
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:17 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
nmdrdh787 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:


Are you saying even if GA/Atlanta offers $10B incentives Amazon will not open HQ2 there based on some perception based on Delta incentives? The answer is No.

Even Seattle thinks Amazon screwed-up their real estate market and started taxing heavily.

HQ2 will result in WFR at HQ1, How should Seattle feel about Amazon starting HQ2 bidding process?

Companies always scout for next big incentive or next cheap labor destination.


Michigan was never in the running for HQ2. Nor is Chicago in my eyes, as much as I try to root for this place. Northern states are not friendly to large corporations. Don't get me started on my escapade to get foriegn qualification to operate in IL... With a business that has no assets right now.

I really think Amazon is looking at a southern, low tax, business friendly city. ATL prob doesn't fit that, but I could see another city fit the bill. (I forgot the rest off of the top of my head)

Hell, they could go after CMH or PIT. We don't know. The process is so secretive for a reason.

Michigan can throw some incentives at me to move my business there, as we are exploring a move to GRR right now :D


What about Charlotte? They have a huge AA hub there, and they can recruit from Georgia and the Triangle.

As for the base issue, if the tax is reinstated, I could see a federal lawsuit.


Out of the list, I'm feeling DFW, RDU, PIT, VA/MD/DC.

To put this back on thread, if you look at the aviation demand, these are airports that can handle some extra capacity (except the DC area maybe)
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:20 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
...
To put this back on thread, if you look at the aviation demand, these are airports that can handle some extra capacity (except the DC area maybe)


The discussion is not about Amazon, it is about principles (vs) incentives.

I think thrown enough incentives, no American corporation would care what happened to Delta, others think differently.

The main theme is still on-topic.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 3493
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:45 pm

Please keep the thread on the topic of the Georgia governor suspending its fuel tax. Discussion regarding Amazon's HQ2 would best be had in the Non Aviation Forum.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
jumbojet
Topic Author
Posts: 2776
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:51 pm

catiii wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
litz wrote:
Pure politics based on the results of last week's gubernatorial primary runoff election.



thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Amazing political spin by you. On the one hand you were out there defending Delta for fighting ME3 subsidies, but when the subsidy benefits Delta (Chapter 11, dumping their pensions, getting a corporate carve out on fuel) you're ok.

Hypocrisy abounds...


your not even close to a fair comparison. Not. Even. In. The. Same. Ballpark.

Cagle took away a benefit that was already given to DL based on DL's perceived NRA views.

The ME3 have blank checks from their respective governments; money they don't have to pay back.

Back on topic, if Cagle was elected governor, this tax obviously would still be taking a small bite out of DL's purses. I think its fair to say Cagle's actions to reenact this tax cost him the job. And what is the lesson learned by Cagle? Don't let your emotions get in the way of doing your job. George is Delta. Mine as well just re-name the state Delta. LOL (J/K).
 
0newair0
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:19 pm

jumbojet wrote:
catiii wrote:
jumbojet wrote:


thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Amazing political spin by you. On the one hand you were out there defending Delta for fighting ME3 subsidies, but when the subsidy benefits Delta (Chapter 11, dumping their pensions, getting a corporate carve out on fuel) you're ok.

Hypocrisy abounds...


your not even close to a fair comparison. Not. Even. In. The. Same. Ballpark.

Cagle took away a benefit that was already given to DL based on DL's perceived NRA views.

The ME3 have blank checks from their respective governments; money they don't have to pay back.

Back on topic, if Cagle was elected governor, this tax obviously would still be taking a small bite out of DL's purses. I think its fair to say Cagle's actions to reenact this tax cost him the job. And what is the lesson learned by Cagle? Don't let your emotions get in the way of doing your job. George is Delta. Mine as well just re-name the state Delta. LOL (J/K).


Cagle's loss had nothing to do with his actions towards Delta. Kemp also wants to punish Delta for taking away the rarely used NRA benefit and won by a wide margin for other reasons.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
kiowa
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:44 pm

kiowa wrote:
Janj wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I would like to see a comparison of the major airline hubs and how much tax is on fuel at each one.


No sales tax on jet fuel in North Carolina at least, as of a couple years ago.

The tax only applied to the fuel that was spent in North Carolina (so flights departing to the south immediately paid barely anything, and flights in other directions still paid very little). In addition, there was a cap of $2.5 million, so it's nothing more than a rounding error for American Airlines, and no other airlines even reached that number. Still, I guess the elected officials think Charlotte is just like Pittsburgh.



I remember reading that Illinois had a tax of over 32 cents on jet fuel. ORD could be more.


I hope this posts ok. Here is what I found for aviation fuel tax by state from 2014

https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/ ... ates_0.png
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:45 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
...Oh. my. god. You were the one that took it off thread into a "OMG MICHIGAN THREW 4BILLION AT AMAZON BUT THEY DIDNT BITE" track.


Seriously, have to read post #15 to which I was responding.

ATL is still in the running for Amazon's HQ2 correct? If so you could see that being another driver - to go through with revoking the tax break for Delta would slam the door shut in terms of Atlanta being a possible Amazon HQ2 pick.
 
catiii
Posts: 3077
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:27 am

jumbojet wrote:
catiii wrote:
jumbojet wrote:


thats how the world spins, just like it was pure politics when Cagle put the tax in place. Good for Delta.


Amazing political spin by you. On the one hand you were out there defending Delta for fighting ME3 subsidies, but when the subsidy benefits Delta (Chapter 11, dumping their pensions, getting a corporate carve out on fuel) you're ok.

Hypocrisy abounds...


your not even close to a fair comparison. Not. Even. In. The. Same. Ballpark.

Cagle took away a benefit that was already given to DL based on DL's perceived NRA views.

The ME3 have blank checks from their respective governments; money they don't have to pay back.

Back on topic, if Cagle was elected governor, this tax obviously would still be taking a small bite out of DL's purses. I think its fair to say Cagle's actions to reenact this tax cost him the job. And what is the lesson learned by Cagle? Don't let your emotions get in the way of doing your job. George is Delta. Mine as well just re-name the state Delta. LOL (J/K).


A subsidy, be it a tax break by a state government, Chapter 11 protection, or sovereign wealth is a subsidy. Exactly. The. Same. Ballpark.

But we all know your biases...
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:40 am

Time to lock this one down
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:35 am

IPFreely wrote:
catiii wrote:
Amazing political spin by you. On the one hand you were out there defending Delta for fighting ME3 subsidies, but when the subsidy benefits Delta (Chapter 11, dumping their pensions, getting a corporate carve out on fuel) you're ok.

Hypocrisy abounds...


If you want hypocrisy, consider Delta's position on subsidies: The Chinese government subsidizes Air China, China Eastern, China Southern, and Hainan Air (to the tune of $1,300,000,000 USD in 2016). Since Delta is obsessed with fighting "unfair" ME3 subsidies, why don't they also fight Chinese airline subsidies? It's an interesting dilemma for them.


UAE/Qatar and USA have an Open Skies agreement.
DL claimed ME3 were violating Open Skies.
Chinese carriers have no Open Skies agreement. They can't violate anything, all routes have close government oversight.
DL no complain. The end.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3143
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:16 am

kiowa wrote:
Janj wrote:
kiowa wrote:
I would like to see a comparison of the major airline hubs and how much tax is on fuel at each one.


No sales tax on jet fuel in North Carolina at least, as of a couple years ago.

The tax only applied to the fuel that was spent in North Carolina (so flights departing to the south immediately paid barely anything, and flights in other directions still paid very little). In addition, there was a cap of $2.5 million, so it's nothing more than a rounding error for American Airlines, and no other airlines even reached that number. Still, I guess the elected officials think Charlotte is just like Pittsburgh.



I remember reading that Illinois had a tax of over 32 cents on jet fuel. ORD could be more.


That is on gasoline, not jet fuel.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3143
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Georgia governor suspends fuel tax to avoid penalizing Delta at Atlanta hub

Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:34 am

kiowa wrote:
kiowa wrote:
Janj wrote:

No sales tax on jet fuel in North Carolina at least, as of a couple years ago.

The tax only applied to the fuel that was spent in North Carolina (so flights departing to the south immediately paid barely anything, and flights in other directions still paid very little). In addition, there was a cap of $2.5 million, so it's nothing more than a rounding error for American Airlines, and no other airlines even reached that number. Still, I guess the elected officials think Charlotte is just like Pittsburgh.



I remember reading that Illinois had a tax of over 32 cents on jet fuel. ORD could be more.


I hope this posts ok. Here is what I found for aviation fuel tax by state from 2014

https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/ ... ates_0.png


Those taxes on jetfuel have to be used for Airport & aviation improvements. Georgia was using the additional 4% tax for the general fund.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos