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oldannyboy
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Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:38 am

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gay-c ... spartanntp

Not sure how true or not this turns out to be, but as always when social media is involved, I'm pretty sure the HR and press offices are dealing with a hot potato at the moment...

Your thoughts?
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No capital letters in title
 
TonyBurr
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:53 am

I think there is more to this then has been revealed.
 
sibibom
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:57 am

Gets popcorn, this discussion shall be fun!

If what they are saying is true, Alaska Airlines has dropped the ball here. It's a PR disaster unless they turned it around and become the preferred airline for the alt-right and the anti-LGBTQI religious gang.
 
D L X
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:14 am

If you are a gay couple and you are bumped for another couple, for whatever reason, you’re almost guaranteed to be replaced by a straight couple. It just simple probability.

The question is entirely then whether they were chosen because they are gay, or was it because the other couple had status with the airline, paid more for the seats, etc. The reasons better be few and dispositive.

Either way, it sure looks like Alaska handled this like crap. Assigning two people to the same seat? How does that happen in 2018? Telling someone they must go to coach or deplane because of their own error is a bad look, regardless of demographics.
 
c933103
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:05 am

D L X wrote:
If you are a gay couple and you are bumped for another couple, for whatever reason, you’re almost guaranteed to be replaced by a straight couple. It just simple probability.

The question is entirely then whether they were chosen because they are gay, or was it because the other couple had status with the airline, paid more for the seats, etc. The reasons better be few and dispositive.

Either way, it sure looks like Alaska handled this like crap. Assigning two people to the same seat? How does that happen in 2018? Telling someone they must go to coach or deplane because of their own error is a bad look, regardless of demographics.

Please read the article before commenting. It was one of them being asked to move to lower class to make room for another one person in a straight couple relationship.
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:09 am

"I have never been so discriminated against while traveling before"
"could not bear the feeling of humiliation for an entire cross-country flight"

Wow, talk about histrionics! David Cooley needs a history lesson.....Rosa Parks and fellow black citizens WERE discriminated against and humiliated while traveling. For Mr. Cooley, I view it as more of an unfortunate and amateurish mishandling of an incident by Alaska Airlines ground staff.
 
c933103
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:11 am

MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
"I have never been so discriminated against while traveling before"
"could not bear the feeling of humiliation for an entire cross-country flight"

Wow, talk about histrionics! David Cooley needs a history lesson.....Rosa Parks and fellow black citizens WERE discriminated against and humiliated while traveling. For Mr. Cooley, I view it as more of an unfortunate and amateurish mishandling of an incident by Alaska Airlines ground staff.

The subject in that statement was "I" not anyone else. Someone else getting even more unfortunated treatment in the past doesn't seems to justify a less unfortunate treatment against another individual now.
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
BAINY3
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:12 am

I'm sure this didn't happen because they were gay, but either way these seat assignment snafus really shouldn't be happening in general.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:20 am

Was this gay couple or the other couple legally married to their partner or on of them has medical or mental health issues where their partner should be adjacent to them ? That might make a slight difference.
Still it looks bad especially when it involves a gay couple at a time when there is still a lot of anti-gay bigotry. Look, this happens to groups of men or women or families with children scattered in their seating as seeking the cheapest seat, then hoping for some accommodation when get on board.
 
toobz
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:22 am

I find it hard to believe AS would bump a person only because they were gay. Minorities in the US always play the victim card and use their status as “the reason”. Unfortunate but going from “premium” to the main cabin is something people should just get over and not feel the need to take to extremes. On oversold flights, this happens everyday to straight people, small people, overweight people, black people, green people, people with allergies..and what a shock. gay people. It happens.
 
axiom
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:28 am

c933103 wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
"I have never been so discriminated against while traveling before"
"could not bear the feeling of humiliation for an entire cross-country flight"

Wow, talk about histrionics! David Cooley needs a history lesson.....Rosa Parks and fellow black citizens WERE discriminated against and humiliated while traveling. For Mr. Cooley, I view it as more of an unfortunate and amateurish mishandling of an incident by Alaska Airlines ground staff.

The subject in that statement was "I" not anyone else. Someone else getting even more unfortunated treatment in the past doesn't seems to justify a less unfortunate treatment against another individual now.


Indeed, last I checked, David Cooley is not a black woman in Civil Rights America...

The reality of this situation for the couple, which is independent of the (likely technical) error by AS, is likely this: LGBT have faced extraordinary discrimination in the US. While it is getting better for some (ie gay white men of a certain class), even those who are most privileged have almost certainly experienced significant trauma. There is a social context to this incident, an excess of meaning which transcend and complicate the immediate situation. That is the reality. This is a valid experience, one which I don't expect A.Netters who are not a member of this community (or others which have grappled with their own challenges) to immediately grasp. Empathy goes a long way here, folks.
Last edited by axiom on Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:31 am

toobz wrote:
I find it hard to believe AS would bump a person only because they were gay. Minorities in the US always play the victim card and use their status as “the reason”. Unfortunate but going from “premium” to the main cabin is something people should just get over and not feel the need to take to extremes. On oversold flights, this happens everyday to straight people, small people, overweight people, black people, green people, people with allergies..and what a shock. gay people. It happens.


Really minorities always play the victim. Well we know how you feel. It does happen to everyone but I assume you are a part of the majority and most certainly would never know how it feels to be marginalized. Being a minority I never play the victim but I will call out unjust treatment.
 
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Keith2004
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:33 am

I wonder if they were at leased offered compensation for the downgrade

Why not have the other couple sit in coach since the Gay Couple was already seated in First Class

I suppose there is more to the story....I assume Alaska will clean it up and avert a PR disaster,
 
77H
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:48 am

toobz wrote:
I find it hard to believe AS would bump a person only because they were gay. Minorities in the US always play the victim card and use their status as “the reason”. Unfortunate but going from “premium” to the main cabin is something people should just get over and not feel the need to take to extremes. On oversold flights, this happens everyday to straight people, small people, overweight people, black people, green people, people with allergies..and what a shock. gay people. It happens.


I suppose documented institutionalized and system racism, documented hatred and violence against LBGT people in this country is just pixie dust and fairytale to you ? Just because it’s not your experience doesn’t mean it’s not the experience others have had. Just because these realities don’t jive with your idea that the United States is the greatest country for everyone doesn’t make it fantasy.

I’m not sure how you don’t think a gay couple, being asked to make room for another couple doesn’t at minimum suggest that airline staff thought it was okay to move these two men for anyone else. Taking race and sexual orientation out of it, what if you’re ugly, and the attractive woman sitting next to you was your wife and a gate agent asked you to move for a another couple.

Beyond any of the discriminatory overtones why didn’t AS tell the couple that wasn’t on board yet they would be denied boarding. The operation aspect of this PR incident are arguably worse than UA’s Dr. Dao incident. Unlike UA’s flight which was just full, this flight was actually oversold. Unlike UA which had an operational need to reposition “must ride” crew to staff a future flight that bumped customers, AS bumped paying customers for another set of paying customers. The only difference is this couple left the plane before it could escalate, Dr. Dao didn’t and badged thugs stormed in and did what American police do best. Achieve compliance by force, happens every day in this country. Unfortunately, because there is no shortage AS promoters on this site, it would get fair and balanced judgement. I suspect the media will likely not push this story as much either as AS is in General a well regarded airline so they figure they won’t get the same ratings a G4/NK or UA incident will.

77H
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:50 am

c933103 wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
"I have never been so discriminated against while traveling before"
"could not bear the feeling of humiliation for an entire cross-country flight"

Wow, talk about histrionics! David Cooley needs a history lesson.....Rosa Parks and fellow black citizens WERE discriminated against and humiliated while traveling. For Mr. Cooley, I view it as more of an unfortunate and amateurish mishandling of an incident by Alaska Airlines ground staff.

The subject in that statement was "I" not anyone else. Someone else getting even more unfortunated treatment in the past doesn't seems to justify a less unfortunate treatment against another individual now.


I seriously doubt that Mr. Cooley's companion was asked to leave his seat because of his sexual orientation. Too many real incidents of LGBT discrimination and resulting backlash have not gone unnoticed by large companies, with travel/transportation/hospitality companies in particular, who have been at the forefront of embracing LGBT clientele. An Alaska ground staff employee really screwed up, nothing more.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:50 am

oldannyboy wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gay-couple-bumped-from-airline-seats-to-make-room-for-straight-couple/ar-BBLhlCd?ocid=spartanntp

Not sure how true or not this turns out to be, but as always when social media is involved, I'm pretty sure the HR and press offices are dealing with a hot potato at the moment...

Your thoughts?


Alaska Airlines in their Facebook/Twitter accounts are replying about how they are investigating this incident (so it happened):

Alaska Airlines We are currently investigating and truly sorry for the incident, this error was not intentional. I can assure you we are an inclusive airline and hold a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind in our workplace. -Dalce


Alaska Airlines I completely understand, Jake. Information is limited during an active investigation and we will be sharing our statement soon. We are a PROUD airline as we participate and sponsor many PRIDE events throughout the year, and we look forward to resolving this and continue to support the community we love. -Dalce
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:53 am

LawAndOrder wrote:
toobz wrote:
I find it hard to believe AS would bump a person only because they were gay. Minorities in the US always play the victim card and use their status as “the reason”. Unfortunate but going from “premium” to the main cabin is something people should just get over and not feel the need to take to extremes. On oversold flights, this happens everyday to straight people, small people, overweight people, black people, green people, people with allergies..and what a shock. gay people. It happens.


Really minorities always play the victim. Well we know how you feel. It does happen to everyone but I assume you are a part of the majority and most certainly would never know how it feels to be marginalized. Being a minority I never play the victim but I will call out unjust treatment.


They or better one of them was downgraded from a paid for premium seat. So who is playing a victim? The question is why. I would question any change of seat assignments after people have boarded. The crew could have asked the gay person to move. To order the change and in the good tradition of airlines with the threat to being thrown off, is at least questionable.
 
VC10er
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:55 am

As a gay man myself who has traveled often with my parter- who shares my top status (but we are not married) if I purchased F tickets for us both and we were seated, I would not budge for someone else unless it was explained in great detail why the other passenger deserves the seat more than him or me, that was paid for and for which I’m already seated.
The time to make a swap because another passenger has more status, or paid a higher fare was long gone.
I just cannot believe any airline or staff would factor in gay v straight unless a staffer said something indicating that.
I only experienced an anti-gay incident once when a FA said something horrible about other FA’s who were gay. But she said it to me not knowing I was gay. So while I believe every airline probably has the right policies in place, they can’t account for every bigot in their ranks- until something happens.
My question is: once seated in your rightfully paid seat, can an airline bump you out of your seat in favor of another pax who’s either paid more or who’s status is higher? Just because they double booked seat 2F twice? And how does that even happen today with computers?
I’d wait for my $10,000 before I got off.
I’m on my side, and on the side of this gay couple. Are we sure that Alaska gave preference to a straight couple who wished to be together over a same-sex couple?
And I do not blame them for not wanting to fly separated. It is often rare you get to travel sitting next to your loved one. Gay or straight, or even just BFF’s!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:57 am

Why do you have to give up your assigned seat just because a couple want to sit together?

If it’s so important for them to sit together then make sure when you book that you’re reserving seats together or book early so you can. It is quite a threat to be offloaded just because you want to sit in the seat that is assigned to you and all just because someone else did not plan as well as you did.

If you’re gay you tend to be traveling by yourself more often and you’re more likely the target for requests like this - and it should be perfectly ok to Deny such requests. In fact I would expect cabin crew to be the mediator to ensure I can freely deny such a request without feeling bad or on the spot.

But if you’re even traveling as a couple and are being made to move with an extreme threat directed at you that is going to cost.
Last edited by JayBCNLON on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:00 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
toobz wrote:
I find it hard to believe AS would bump a person only because they were gay. Minorities in the US always play the victim card and use their status as “the reason”. Unfortunate but going from “premium” to the main cabin is something people should just get over and not feel the need to take to extremes. On oversold flights, this happens everyday to straight people, small people, overweight people, black people, green people, people with allergies..and what a shock. gay people. It happens.


Really minorities always play the victim. Well we know how you feel. It does happen to everyone but I assume you are a part of the majority and most certainly would never know how it feels to be marginalized. Being a minority I never play the victim but I will call out unjust treatment.


:checkmark:

Me too. Part of the [HUGE] gay 'minority' here. Hence why I posted this. I never once played the victim in my whole life. But you bet I will call out LOUDLY the day I feel my rights are not respected and I smell unjust treatment.

I want to believe AS simply had an operational meltdown of some sort and didn't mean to bump the gay couple in the first place.
Still, I can totally relate how horrible that would feel if myself and my husband got deplaned for what is perceived to be as preferential treatment towards a straight couple.
 
planecane
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:01 pm

I am always skeptical of these stories when critical information is left out. For example:

Was the gay couple's tickets on the same itinerary?
Same question about straight couple.
Did Cooley and his companion pay for first class or were one or both upgraded?
Same question for straight couple.

The answers to these questions are pretty important in determining if there was discrimination or just a typical airline customer service screw up that happened to involve a gay couple.
 
Flighty
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:13 pm

Is it okay to displace seated passengers for status in this day and age?

What is Alaska spouse / significant other upgrade policy? It goes by the more senior FF member status, isn’t that right? Now that gay marriage is legal, do significant others get the same privileges as a spouse? Why would they?

I really doubt the Alaska Airlines seating protocol is discriminatory against gays.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:13 pm

I have no idea what happened here. Not enough information to really say whether Cooley was discriminated against or not.

Here’s an anecdotal, personal experience about implicit bias - my fiancé and I (we’re gay) were traveling back to the US from Europe in business class. This particular plane has staggered 1-2-1 seating, but only some of the center seats are next to each other (the airline jokingly calls them honeymoon seats) ; others are quite far apart (on the aisle). WE boarded and were settled, and near the end of the boarding process a man and his wife boarded and started making a stink because they were in the row of two where the seats were far apart. The flight attendant, trying to find a solution, eventually approached my fiancé and I and asked us if we would switch,clearly not realizing that we were a couple. I told her that we were a couple, and no we selected these seats because they were next to each other.

To her credit, the flight attendant apologized profusely. She actually approached us later in flight and apologized again and said she never should have assumed we weren’t a couple. We accepted her apology, of course, and it was clear to us that she wasn’t homophobic or bigoted, and that she would be more thoughtful in the future.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:19 pm

sibibom wrote:
Gets popcorn, this discussion shall be fun!

If what they are saying is true, Alaska Airlines has dropped the ball here. It's a PR disaster unless they turned it around and become the preferred airline for the alt-right and the anti-LGBTQI religious gang.


They would need to fly point to point to lots more of the red states.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:22 pm

At what point is this homosexual discrimination? bad service and planning by Alaska but not discrimination. I feel for all those who are discriminated against because Mr Cooley is giving a bad impression.

Fred
Image
 
toobz
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:33 pm

Umm I’m gay too. That was the point of my posting...stuff happens sometimes. But this “a gay couple gets bumped” stuff I don’t get. What does gay have to do with this UNLESS it’s proven it was because of that? I’m gay but it’s a very small percentage of what makes me me. I wouldn’t make a big deal about something and claim it was because “I’m gay”. I guess I’m just not enough of a drama queen.
Last edited by toobz on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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mbmbos
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:35 pm

MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
I seriously doubt that Mr. Cooley's companion was asked to leave his seat because of his sexual orientation. Too many real incidents of LGBT discrimination and resulting backlash have not gone unnoticed by large companies, with travel/transportation/hospitality companies in particular, who have been at the forefront of embracing LGBT clientele. An Alaska ground staff employee really screwed up, nothing more.


And I seriously doubt your reading comprehension. From what I gathered from the article, the FA wanted to re-seat one of the men in first class in order to seat a couple together. When the two men informed the FA they were also a couple, the FA didn't back down but threatened to kick one of the men off the plane. So the FA refused to afford the gay couple the same status as the heterosexual couple.

This may very well be a matter of the airline disciplining/educating a few airline employees. But it is not trivial and doesn't deserve your dismissive tone.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
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diverdave
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:39 pm

Keith2004 wrote:
Why not have the other couple sit in coach since the Gay Couple was already seated in First Class.


They were not in First Class, they were in AS Premium Class which is their coach section with extra legroom and free booze.
 
toobz
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Let’s wait and see what the investigation brings. It could be that these two guys had upgrades or were the least paying pax in that cabin. I’m sure they have a very well written SOP on what happens during situations like this. If this is something else, that’s obviously not good. We just don’t have enough information to really know what happened.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:42 pm

And we have a new contender in the Oppression Olympics.

I don't think any airline would bump a gay couple because they're gay. If they got bumped, there must have been a legitimate reason for it. People need to stop playing whatever victim card they've been told they have.

The airline industry is probably the most gay friendly industry there is. That doesn't mean gay people get special treatment, it means they get treated like everyone else. Not any worse, and not any better.
Last edited by JetBuddy on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
slvrblt
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:46 pm

[u][/u]Weird, I'm wondering what happened here, dupe seating once on board, in this day and age, is really almost non-existent. One poster above asked if the two couple's tickets were purchased vs. upgrades, a good question.....I'd also ask, was this a change of equipment?? If so, then did the swap result in a smaller first class cabin? That could cause bumping based on status, ticket type, etc. But that situation is dealt with, normally, at the counter or gate, it shouldn't have made it all the way down to changes being made on board.
..everything works out in the end.
 
bevan7
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:47 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
At what point is this homosexual discrimination? bad service and planning by Alaska but not discrimination. I feel for all those who are discriminated against because Mr Cooley is giving a bad impression.

Fred

toobz wrote:
Umm I’m gay too. That was the point of my posting...stuff happens sometimes. But this “a gay couple gets bumped” stuff I don’t get. What does gay have to do with this UNLESS it’s proven it was because of that? I’m gay but it’s a very small percentage of what makes me me. I wouldn’t make a big deal about something and claim it was because “I’m gay”. I guess I’m just not enough of a drama queen.


I agree. There's no evidence that this happened because they were gay. You see this crying wolf a lot with some minorities that every time something goes wrong in their life they blame it on being a minority. This in turn desensitizes people to real examples of discrimination that do deserve to be dealt with. I've had seat assignments changed but it wasn't because of ethnicity, age, gender, sexuality, hair colour, favourite sports team. This guy needs to get over himself and learn what discrimination actually is.
 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:51 pm

mbmbos wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
I seriously doubt that Mr. Cooley's companion was asked to leave his seat because of his sexual orientation. Too many real incidents of LGBT discrimination and resulting backlash have not gone unnoticed by large companies, with travel/transportation/hospitality companies in particular, who have been at the forefront of embracing LGBT clientele. An Alaska ground staff employee really screwed up, nothing more.


From what I gathered from the article, the FA wanted to re-seat one of the men in first class in order to seat a couple together. When the two men informed the FA they were also a couple, the FA didn't back down but threatened to kick one of the men off the plane. So the FA refused to afford the gay couple the same status as the heterosexual couple.


I think this the key element that I too find very disturbing.

Once the F/A was told that they TOO were a couple and rightly wanted to sit together, s/he refused to back down, and rather became confrontational.

Also, it's totally not on to DEPLANE already seated passengers. If you need to shuffle/accommodate/re-arrange pax, you do that PRIOR to boarding, on any airline, and you accordingly re-issue new boarding passes and take care of compensations.

Once I am seated I personally ain't going to deplane, no matter what. It's past the time to do any re-shuffling.
Last edited by oldannyboy on Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Flighty
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:58 pm

tlecam wrote:
I have no idea what happened here. Not enough information to really say whether Cooley was discriminated against or not.

Here’s an anecdotal, personal experience about implicit bias - my fiancé and I (we’re gay) were traveling back to the US from Europe in business class. This particular plane has staggered 1-2-1 seating, but only some of the center seats are next to each other (the airline jokingly calls them honeymoon seats) ; others are quite far apart (on the aisle). WE boarded and were settled, and near the end of the boarding process a man and his wife boarded and started making a stink because they were in the row of two where the seats were far apart. The flight attendant, trying to find a solution, eventually approached my fiancé and I and asked us if we would switch,clearly not realizing that we were a couple. I told her that we were a couple, and no we selected these seats because they were next to each other.

To her credit, the flight attendant apologized profusely. She actually approached us later in flight and apologized again and said she never should have assumed we weren’t a couple. We accepted her apology, of course, and it was clear to us that she wasn’t homophobic or bigoted, and that she would be more thoughtful in the future.


You contributed something meaningful by telling how it should be done. Thanks.

On the flip side I am mistaken for being gay reasonably often (hotel check-in clerk did it this week, assuming another dude and I are the next happy couple) and it doesn't bother me at all. If I look like I take care of myself, great! Thank you!
 
msycajun
Posts: 1046
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:07 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
I think this the key element that I too find very disturbing.

Once the F/A was told that they TOO were a couple and rightly wanted to sit together, s/he refused to back down, and rather became confrontational.

Also, it's totally not on to DEPLANE already seated passengers. If you need to shuffle/accommodate/re-arrange pax, you do that PRIOR to boarding, on any airline, and you accordingly re-issue new boarding passes and take care of compensations.

Once I am seated I personally ain't going to deplane, no matter what. It's past the time to do any re-shuffling.


Seems like a good analysis to me. Setting aside the question of discrimination, the FA "power trip" do what I say or get off the plane attitude is something that needs to be called out. We live in an era where too many people at all levels of power abuse it. It's particularly bad that this is happening after the first couple was already seated. If it had been sorted out before boarding, I doubt it would have made the news. There's no excuse in this age to be involuntarily removing or downgrading passengers who have already been seated.

At any rate, I think this plays out poorly for AS, who depends on customers' good will to compete against UA and DL in their hubs. DL got a nice PR boost from this.
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:08 pm

I'm always leery of anyone using some sort of personal characteristic as being THE REASON that
...I was asked to change seats
...the reason I didn't get a pre departure beverage
...the reason I had to move my bags from the overhead bin
...the reason my luggage came off delayed in bag claim
...the reason the flight attendant wasn't friendly
etc.

Sorry, I'm a bit skeptical his being gay had ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING here. They hollywood guy who was moved is leveraging PR and social media, which is a red flag to me. He is, after all, a savvy enough guy that he built a commercial advertisement for his business "The Abbey" into a weeks-long "reality show" on Bravo TV network. A show that didn't even acknowledge it was a gay bar in the first place, LOL, but supposedly had all these beautiful straight women and men as their focus, LOL. My suspicion is there is MUCH more to the story and to the agenda of the guy who was asked to move.

I lump this in the category of the woman who was on a buddy pass on AA and denied boarding, in tattered jeans and was screaming racism when it was clearly NOT. She videoed staff and livestreamed her interactions with police and fortunately nobody took the bait. Sorry, I'm skeptical this is the whole story. I'd be PO'd if I had to move too, but not so fast to blame it on whatever characteristic about myself. The airlines in general are VERY VERY historically LGBT friendly employers, so it's shocking and borderline unbelievable that "this" was the reason.
Last edited by LovePrunesAnet on Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
JayBCNLON
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:09 pm

toobz wrote:
Umm I’m gay too. That was the point of my posting...stuff happens sometimes. But this “a gay couple gets bumped” stuff I don’t get. What does gay have to do with this UNLESS it’s proven it was because of that? I’m gay but it’s a very small percentage of what makes me me. I wouldn’t make a big deal about something and claim it was because “I’m gay”. I guess I’m just not enough of a drama queen.


It is discrimmination the moment someone values a straight relationship as more relevant than a gay relationship and makes that known.

But, as I said in my post above: it does not even take the ingredient of sexual orientation to make this a bad situation. Why should you be foreced from your assigned and preferred seat just because someone else did not plan ahead or pay enough?

You can be all man to see that this was a very bad handling of the situation.
 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:10 pm

Flighty wrote:
[On the flip side I am mistaken for being gay reasonably often (hotel check-in clerk did it this week, assuming another dude and I are the next happy couple) and it doesn't bother me at all. If I look like I take care of myself, great! Thank you!


:bouncy: Oh wow, great! Take it as a nice compliment! :wave:
It sometimes happens to some straight friends of mine (mostly when they are in my company of course) - but invariably only to the better looking ones... :scratchchin:
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:13 pm

oldannyboy wrote:

It sometimes happens to some straight friends of mine (mostly when they are in my company of course) - but invariably only to the better looking ones... :scratchchin:


Wow, what you just posted is kind of reinforcement of stereotypes that the better looking men are gay. Reverse discrimination much?
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:14 pm

For those of you who truly believe Alaska Airlines moved the guy because of his sexual orientation, nobody at Alaska, nor anyone on that plane besides he and Cooley knew he was gay until AFTER he was asked to move.

This is the problem with some people. You cry foul over something that isn't discriminatory and make it difficult for those who have truly been discriminated against.
I'm not 100% sure if they do it anymore, but Alaska Airlines has offered special fares and deals to the bay community for a very long time, I highly doubt that they are suddenly anti-gay.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
oldannyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 2316
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:17 pm

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:

It sometimes happens to some straight friends of mine (mostly when they are in my company of course) - but invariably only to the better looking ones... :scratchchin:


Wow, what you just posted is kind of reinforcement of stereotypes that the better looking men are gay. Reverse discrimination much?


Of course we gay men are better looking!!! :ugeek:

It's the one stereotype I am proud of.... :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
skymiler
Posts: 326
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:00 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:22 pm

I had a similar seat issue (not on AS) recently due to a double booking of some sort. I received an email from the airline in advance, apologising for my downgrade and providing compensation and a waiver of all change fees and fare difference should I care to re-book. As a road warrior of 45+ years and having worked in the industry and understanding that these things happen I accepted the offer and moved back a row or two. No big deal -- and then there was a no-show and the gate agent came on board and moved me again! Karma, I guess.

At no time was there any question about me or my preferences. It was just one of those things that happen -- life is not perfect -- and accepting imperfections makes for a lot less stress (but not good press). I personally am very disappointed in how the media treats the airlines on many occasions. Although some incidents (e.g. Dr Dao) are noteworthy, blaring a head line that somebody stubbed their toe on entering is pure crap.
I love to fly, and it shows!
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:24 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
LovePrunesAnet wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:

It sometimes happens to some straight friends of mine (mostly when they are in my company of course) - but invariably only to the better looking ones... :scratchchin:


Wow, what you just posted is kind of reinforcement of stereotypes that the better looking men are gay. Reverse discrimination much?


Of course we gay men are better looking!!! :ugeek:

It's the one stereotype I am proud of.... :rotfl: :rotfl:


What if I said the reverse? Straight men are much better looking? How does THAT feel?
You see the problem? You want to be treated/judged/viewed equally, except when you don't.
Nothing cute about being treated unequally. smiley icons or not.
 
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sturmovik
Posts: 707
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:27 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
For those of you who truly believe Alaska Airlines moved the guy because of his sexual orientation, nobody at Alaska, nor anyone on that plane besides he and Cooley knew he was gay until AFTER he was asked to move.

This is the problem with some people. You cry foul over something that isn't discriminatory and make it difficult for those who have truly been discriminated against.
I'm not 100% sure if they do it anymore, but Alaska Airlines has offered special fares and deals to the bay community for a very long time, I highly doubt that they are suddenly anti-gay.


Fair enough, but if you read the bloody article, it's clear that the F/A did not back off AFTER learning that Cooley and his partner were a gay couple. This is not a case of the airline employee going down the aisle thinking "hm, I wonder who's gay that I can kick off this flight". For some of you, it appears that the event needs to be that blatant for it to qualify as discrimination. After being made aware that Cooley and his partner were a couple, it appears that the F/A still insisted on reseating them in favour of a heterosexual couple. And in doing so, treated the gay relationship as less valuable than the straight one. And that's discrimination.
'What's it doing now?'
 
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DL717
Posts: 1548
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:28 pm

Alaska not gay friendly? What a crock.

I’ll give you our story from two weeks ago and you decide the similarities and if they exist.

Our flight into Detroit was 20 minutes late with a 40 min connection time. We had to go from one end of the terminal to the other. As we were on the train, Delta started rebooking us and released our seats which were subsequently given to two other pax as an upgrade. We arrived at the gate 12 minutes before departure. We got our seats back and as we were boarding the people bumped back to premium economy went about bitching about losing their upgrade to us and how it was unfair they had to leave their seats. If they were gay and felt like launching a triggered twitter meltdown, Delta would be in the same boat.

Moral of the story? We don’t have the full story. Point of my post, why was an apparently late couple given seats at the last moment? We’re they already assigned, then released for upgrades because of a delay? It seems rather absurd to me really that any Alaska Airlines employee would do this based on sexual orientation. I predict that we will find Mr. Cooley to be full of shit when the dust settles.
Last edited by DL717 on Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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AASAP777
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:31 pm

Sometimes the instances of discrimination could be exaggerated.

Having been an airline employee myself (and who sort of knows how things go on an oversold flight), it is pretty feasible that things might these can happen. Bad service from the airline? It could be, and this is deserves to be thoroughly watched by Alaska Airlines on the OPERATIONAL part.

The other stuff (bias, anti-gay discrimination) could be just simply overrated. Being a Latino (although never discriminated for that when I've visited the US) who sees the ugly face of discrimination against fellow Latinos just for the plain and simple fact that they don't look white or that they speak their mother tongue in front of a "proud white American" who feels you are supposed to speak "American" when in "America" (which for me is a whole continent from Alaska all the way to Cape Magellan, not the country that is called the United States) and are offended if you show your culture, well, that is more discriminatory than a simple cabin downgrade (probably not correctly handled by AS' staff), or even more, somebody that is denied housing because he is gay (which I witnessed myself, and that's even more offensive, because a basic human right was violated, no matter how much you don't agree with LGBT claims).

I think this is too much overrated. Period. It has to be examined on the operational side, not on what the gentlemen here might think.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
axiom
Posts: 862
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:34 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
For those of you who truly believe Alaska Airlines moved the guy because of his sexual orientation, nobody at Alaska, nor anyone on that plane besides he and Cooley knew he was gay until AFTER he was asked to move.

This is the problem with some people. You cry foul over something that isn't discriminatory and make it difficult for those who have truly been discriminated against.
I'm not 100% sure if they do it anymore, but Alaska Airlines has offered special fares and deals to the bay community for a very long time, I highly doubt that they are suddenly anti-gay.


Ah, a resaaauring "you people" post from someone who has "kill em all" in their signature.

A radical proposition: what if we assumed everyone was gay, first and foremost?

You're potentially right. Perhaps the FA didn't know they were gay when they asked them to move. But that is an assumption -- one that is programmed into the world. This is where implicit bias originates.

Fine, honest mistake. Why did the FA push things when the couple asked to stay together? This is where the story gets ambiuous, for now, and why the couple was apparently bothered.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5226
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:34 pm

Time for Alaska to hire Sarah Palin as their new Brand Ambassador.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:37 pm

mbmbos wrote:
MSPSXMFLIER wrote:
I seriously doubt that Mr. Cooley's companion was asked to leave his seat because of his sexual orientation. Too many real incidents of LGBT discrimination and resulting backlash have not gone unnoticed by large companies, with travel/transportation/hospitality companies in particular, who have been at the forefront of embracing LGBT clientele. An Alaska ground staff employee really screwed up, nothing more.


And I seriously doubt your reading comprehension. From what I gathered from the article, the FA wanted to re-seat one of the men in first class in order to seat a couple together. When the two men informed the FA they were also a couple, the FA didn't back down but threatened to kick one of the men off the plane. So the FA refused to afford the gay couple the same status as the heterosexual couple.

This may very well be a matter of the airline disciplining/educating a few airline employees. But it is not trivial and doesn't deserve your dismissive tone.


Speaking of reading and comprehension issues....
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
axiom
Posts: 862
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:40 pm

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
LovePrunesAnet wrote:

Wow, what you just posted is kind of reinforcement of stereotypes that the better looking men are gay. Reverse discrimination much?


Of course we gay men are better looking!!! :ugeek:

It's the one stereotype I am proud of.... :rotfl: :rotfl:


What if I said the reverse? Straight men are much better looking? How does THAT feel?
You see the problem? You want to be treated/judged/viewed equally, except when you don't.
Nothing cute about being treated unequally. smiley icons or not.


Yes, look at those facist gays, criminalising straight sex and discriminating against heterosexual couples for all these years. For shame! Speak power to truth, Mr Prune!

This poster is riffing on a long standing and ironic joke. Nothing more.
Last edited by axiom on Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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