Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
danj555 wrote:“Alaska Airlines has a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind,” - This is an excerpt from their public statement.
Ok if you really do have a zero tolerance. Then fire the involved employee. If you say zero then mean zero. Zero = Zero.
777PHX wrote:You may want to go back and read the article before you start attacking other peoples' lack of reading comprehension. It clearly says Alaska told him he was going to be downgraded to coach. They protested and were told he could either accept the downgrade or get off the plane. It wasn't a simple reseating within first class.
mbmbos wrote:DL717 wrote:Speaking of reading and comprehension issues....
Care to make a substantive comment?
sxf24 wrote:What’s the proper procedure for duplicate seat assignments? Can the gate agent tell who reserved the seats first and move the passengers that took them last?
32andBelow wrote:flight crew are notoriously full of shit.
DL717 wrote:32andBelow wrote:flight crew are notoriously full of shit.
So are passengers when they don't get their way.
WeatherPilot wrote:I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.
slvrblt wrote:WeatherPilot wrote:I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.
No, not a multitude of reasons. You better wake up, bucko. Or maybe you're one of THEM, you sound like it. In our nice, 'friendly' political climate we have now, it is one that enables, even encourages bigots and haters to put forth their bile and discrimination; it's more prevalent than ever. I can't remember in the past decade seeing as much anti-black, anti-gay, anti-latino sentiment as has surfaced in the last couple of years. Miami Beach has been a gay mecca for as long as I can remember, with few if any real incidents in recent times. Now, it's starting again - there have been several high-profile examples of gay bashing, attacks, and vandalism. South Beach - couples attacked as they left a bar. A single guy just walking home from the bar after hours - assaulted by a crowd. Wilton Manors - businesses vandalized. This kind of thing was prevalent in the 60's and 70's, then went quiet. People got along, even if they didn't agree.
Now the nastiness is back. It's like the 1960's all over again.
32andBelow wrote:DL717 wrote:32andBelow wrote:flight crew are notoriously full of shit.
So are passengers when they don't get their way.
Well I’d think some of these news outlets would marginally vet this story. Crew on Facebook just spread rumors.
WeatherPilot wrote:I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.
Virtual737 wrote:Why does Mr Cooley refer to his "partner" as "traveling companion" and "companion" rather than "husband", "boyfriend" or "partner"? Are they a couple or just friends, gay or not? I don't refer to my wife as my "traveling companion". She has always been either girlfriend, fiance or wife. Seems rather odd.
mbmbos wrote:No need to examine my reading comprehension. I never disputed that he was going to be downgraded to coach...or kicked off the plane. The rest is your conjecture.
mbmbos wrote:And I seriously doubt your reading comprehension. From what I gathered from the article, the FA wanted to re-seat one of the men in first class in order to seat a couple together. When the two men informed the FA they were also a couple, the FA didn't back down but threatened to kick one of the men off the plane. So the FA refused to afford the gay couple the same status as the heterosexual couple.
This may very well be a matter of the airline disciplining/educating a few airline employees. But it is not trivial and doesn't deserve your dismissive tone.
cynlb wrote:I think the better way they could have handled this situation would have been to offer them compensation to take a later flight instead of moving one to coach (especially if they purchased first class tickets )
danj555 wrote:“Alaska Airlines has a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind,” - This is an excerpt from their public statement.
Ok if you really do have a zero tolerance. Then fire the involved employee. If you say zero then mean zero. Zero = Zero.
sibibom wrote:Gets popcorn, this discussion shall be fun!
If what they are saying is true, Alaska Airlines has dropped the ball here. It's a PR disaster unless they turned it around and become the preferred airline for the alt-right and the anti-LGBTQI religious gang.
sturmovik wrote:Sancho99504 wrote:For those of you who truly believe Alaska Airlines moved the guy because of his sexual orientation, nobody at Alaska, nor anyone on that plane besides he and Cooley knew he was gay until AFTER he was asked to move.
This is the problem with some people. You cry foul over something that isn't discriminatory and make it difficult for those who have truly been discriminated against.
I'm not 100% sure if they do it anymore, but Alaska Airlines has offered special fares and deals to the bay community for a very long time, I highly doubt that they are suddenly anti-gay.
Fair enough, but if you read the bloody article, it's clear that the F/A did not back off AFTER learning that Cooley and his partner were a gay couple. This is not a case of the airline employee going down the aisle thinking "hm, I wonder who's gay that I can kick off this flight". For some of you, it appears that the event needs to be that blatant for it to qualify as discrimination. After being made aware that Cooley and his partner were a couple, it appears that the F/A still insisted on reseating them in favour of a heterosexual couple. And in doing so, treated the gay relationship as less valuable than the straight one. And that's discrimination.
EA CO AS wrote:danj555 wrote:“Alaska Airlines has a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind,” - This is an excerpt from their public statement.
Ok if you really do have a zero tolerance. Then fire the involved employee. If you say zero then mean zero. Zero = Zero.
If this turns out to be the product of deliberate discrimination on the part of the employee, that's precisely what will happen. If this was simply an error in judgment or not following proper policy/procedures, that's a different story.
Sancho99504 wrote:Let me clarify from a previous post.
The fact that we're discussing the sexual orientation of passengers and employees is ludicrous. This should never have been a discussion.
Clearly, this flight attendant and gate agents for this flight lack basic critical thinking skills.
It should have been caught at the gate as seat x had already been boarded. Fail 1
Once it was realized by all party's involved, they should have asked the person NOT already seated if they could take another seat. Fail 2
If taking another seat was not a satisfactory solution, then going back and looking to see who paid for or who was upgraded to that seat. If both people paid for/upgraded, then fare class, status, time of check in. If one paid and the other didn't, then the one who paid gets the seat. Fail 3
Personally, I would have asked to see the guy's ticket and then told the other person, "sorry, but he was here first" and then try to reseat that person elsewhere....
PlanesNTrains wrote:EA CO AS wrote:danj555 wrote:I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, at the number of people who have attacked the airline and demanded the employee be fired based on an incomplete story. Of all industries, airlines have seemed one of the better ones for recognizing and respecting the gay community, yet that “goodwill” has shown to be worthless based on the reaction to an incomplete story. The consensus on the employee seems to be “Off with their head!” I have no problem with someone losing their job, but let’s at least wait and see what the facts are.
LAXBUR wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:EA CO AS wrote:
I’m Progressive, but all these Liberal and Progressive SJWs demanding a WHOLE CREW of unionized employees be immediately fired based off one man’s Facebook post is incredibly embarrassing. You should see the Twitter psychos.
PlanesNTrains wrote:LAXBUR wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:
I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.
LAXBUR wrote:PlanesNTrains wrote:LAXBUR wrote:
I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.
They’ll be over it when they need to fly to Vegas and Alaska is $3 cheaper.
HWC1977 wrote:These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.
VC10er wrote:As a gay man myself who has traveled often with my parter- who shares my top status (but we are not married) if I purchased F tickets for us both and we were seated, I would not budge for someone else unless it was explained in great detail why the other passenger deserves the seat more than him or me, that was paid for and for which I’m already seated.
The time to make a swap because another passenger has more status, or paid a higher fare was long gone.
I just cannot believe any airline or staff would factor in gay v straight unless a staffer said something indicating that.
I only experienced an anti-gay incident once when a FA said something horrible about other FA’s who were gay. But she said it to me not knowing I was gay. So while I believe every airline probably has the right policies in place, they can’t account for every bigot in their ranks- until something happens.
My question is: once seated in your rightfully paid seat, can an airline bump you out of your seat in favor of another pax who’s either paid more or who’s status is higher? Just because they double booked seat 2F twice? And how does that even happen today with computers?
I’d wait for my $10,000 before I got off.
I’m on my side, and on the side of this gay couple. Are we sure that Alaska gave preference to a straight couple who wished to be together over a same-sex couple?
And I do not blame them for not wanting to fly separated. It is often rare you get to travel sitting next to your loved one. Gay or straight, or even just BFF’s!
HWC1977 wrote:These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.
Sancho99504 wrote:For those of you who truly believe Alaska Airlines moved the guy because of his sexual orientation, nobody at Alaska, nor anyone on that plane besides he and Cooley knew he was gay until AFTER he was asked to move.
VC10er wrote:My question is: once seated in your rightfully paid seat, can an airline bump you out of your seat in favor of another pax who’s either paid more or who’s status is higher? Just because they double booked seat 2F twice? And how does that even happen today with computers?
VC10er wrote:And how does that even happen today with computers?
WaywardMemphian wrote:Companies as a whole should have stayed off facebook, even social media. The comments are ridiculous. Social Media and it's mob mentality is no win ever. I've seen an airport announce new service and half the comments are about something not related to the announcement but some bitching about something else like concession pricing.
PlanesNTrains wrote:I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, at the number of people who have attacked the airline and demanded the employee be fired based on an incomplete story.
PlanesNTrains wrote:The consensus on the employee seems to be “Off with their head!” I have no problem with someone losing their job, but let’s at least wait and see what the facts are.
PlanesNTrains wrote:I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.
ubeema wrote:Re-posting official Alaska statement on the situation (thanks tlecam):
Source: https://twitter.com/alaskaair/status/10 ... 40065?s=21
cynlb wrote:I think the better way they could have handled this situation would have been to offer them compensation to take a later flight instead of moving one to coach (especially if they purchased first class tickets )
jetwet1 wrote:WaywardMemphian wrote:Companies as a whole should have stayed off facebook, even social media. The comments are ridiculous. Social Media and it's mob mentality is no win ever. I've seen an airport announce new service and half the comments are about something not related to the announcement but some bitching about something else like concession pricing.
One of the smartest posts in this whole thread, not a week goes by that I don't get a call from our social media team to let me know the world is coming to an end due to the actions of one of our employees, once investigated 99.999999% of the time it's BS, hell last week on tripadvisor a person posted that I (meaning me) was attempting to break into their hotel room at 3am.......Yeah, seriously...... The internet is great for many things, sadly though it has given a voice to the lunatic fringe.PlanesNTrains wrote:I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, at the number of people who have attacked the airline and demanded the employee be fired based on an incomplete story.
The pack mentality.PlanesNTrains wrote:The consensus on the employee seems to be “Off with their head!” I have no problem with someone losing their job, but let’s at least wait and see what the facts are.
It is the same in most customer service industries.PlanesNTrains wrote:I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.
It does and it is.
Here is the simple version, an employee of AS screwed up, sorry protectors of all airline employees, it happened, how can I say it happened ? Simple, AS have owned it, their social media team (and executive team) did an outstanding job of getting in front of this (maybe UA should hire a few of them), they know that even if they were in the right, which based off of the facts known so far they were not (sorry but as soon as the FA found out they were a couple she have backed down) they had already lost in the face of public response. Better to suck it up in public, admit you were wrong, even if it turns out you were not (you listening UA) their twitter team seems to be proactive in responding to replies to the tweet owning the f**k up :
https://twitter.com/AlaskaAir/status/10 ... 9694040065
Give it a day and this will have disappeared and the burning torch brigade will have moved on.
Now, a thought, and please, would our gay or lesbian members please set me right if my thinking is way off base......When it comes to gay and lesbian couples traveling together, I am thinking there should be a way to flag it in the reservation and manifest, this would of course require the customer making the booking to notify the airline in some way, but, it would help to avert these types of situations....
HWC1977 wrote:These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.
HWC1977 wrote:These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.
VC10er wrote:HWC1977 wrote:These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.
WRONG! SO VERY WRONG! “Lifestyle” is a bigot doggy whistle. If you didn’t know that, now you do. So I kindly ask please don’t use that term again as it is deeply offensive. Choosing to live in a rural area rather than an urban setting is a lifestyle choice- not being born gay.
AEROFAN wrote:Virtual737 wrote:Why does Mr Cooley refer to his "partner" as "traveling companion" and "companion" rather than "husband", "boyfriend" or "partner"? Are they a couple or just friends, gay or not? I don't refer to my wife as my "traveling companion". She has always been either girlfriend, fiance or wife. Seems rather odd.
What does it matter? If they paid for their seats in the premium cabin - it bears no relevance.
r
slvrblt wrote:WeatherPilot wrote:I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.
No, not a multitude of reasons. You better wake up, bucko. Or maybe you're one of THEM, you sound like it. In our nice, 'friendly' political climate we have now, it is one that enables, even encourages bigots and haters to put forth their bile and discrimination; it's more prevalent than ever. I can't remember in the past decade seeing as much anti-black, anti-gay, anti-latino sentiment as has surfaced in the last couple of years. Miami Beach has been a gay mecca for as long as I can remember, with few if any real incidents in recent times. Now, it's starting again - there have been several high-profile examples of gay bashing, attacks, and vandalism. South Beach - couples attacked as they left a bar. A single guy just walking home from the bar after hours - assaulted by a crowd. Wilton Manors - businesses vandalized. This kind of thing was prevalent in the 60's and 70's, then went quiet. People got along, even if they didn't agree.
Now the nastiness is back. It's like the 1960's all over again.
max999 wrote:Second, beyond the fact the couple is gay. It's unfair for anyone to be forced to move to coach when they have a premium ticket especially as Alaska admitted they made a seating assignment mistake. In a situation like this, it's right for any normal person to not 'get over it' (as you suggested), but instead complain about their punitive treatment. So if this happened to you personally, are you suggesting you would take it lying down and move to the back?