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User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:32 pm

We know so little based upon what's been reported, I find it very hard to form any definitive opinion whatsoever.

Alaska has said two things about the incident:

"We mistakenly booked two people in one seat,"

and

"We are deeply sorry for the situation, and are investigating the details while communicating directly with the guests involved to try and make this right. Alaska Airlines has a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind, and our employees value inclusion for our guests and each other."

On the surface, this tends to lead me to believe that the reports that the one of the gay couple were squatting in a seat that wasn't assigned to him is not accurate.

Edit to add that they posted a new update on twitter about 20 minutes ago. I'd paste the text here, but it's an image.

https://twitter.com/AlaskaAir/status/10 ... 9694040065
Last edited by tlecam on Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:33 pm

danj555 wrote:
“Alaska Airlines has a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind,” - This is an excerpt from their public statement.

Ok if you really do have a zero tolerance. Then fire the involved employee. If you say zero then mean zero. Zero = Zero.


I’m sure you’d understand if your employer fired you based on a Twitter rant.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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mbmbos
Posts: 2853
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:34 pm

777PHX wrote:
You may want to go back and read the article before you start attacking other peoples' lack of reading comprehension. It clearly says Alaska told him he was going to be downgraded to coach. They protested and were told he could either accept the downgrade or get off the plane. It wasn't a simple reseating within first class.


No need to examine my reading comprehension. I never disputed that he was going to be downgraded to coach...or kicked off the plane. The rest is your conjecture.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
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DL717
Posts: 1736
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:38 pm

mbmbos wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Speaking of reading and comprehension issues....


Care to make a substantive comment?


Read your post. They weren't even in first class.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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aerolimani
Posts: 1208
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:48 pm

There's always fake stuff on the internet, so take this with whatever grain of salt you prefer. https://www.facebook.com/michaelgstewar ... 6250045232

Image
 
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DL717
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:58 pm

sxf24 wrote:
What’s the proper procedure for duplicate seat assignments? Can the gate agent tell who reserved the seats first and move the passengers that took them last?


Fare, booking time and status typically.

For all we know, the couple boarding late had seat assignments that were changed or dropped from the PNR for some reason and the seats were then given back to them.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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DL717
Posts: 1736
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:05 pm

32andBelow wrote:
flight crew are notoriously full of shit.


So are passengers when they don't get their way.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4005
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:15 pm

DL717 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
flight crew are notoriously full of shit.


So are passengers when they don't get their way.

Well I’d think some of these news outlets would marginally vet this story. Crew on Facebook just spread rumors.
 
slvrblt
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:16 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.


No, not a multitude of reasons. You better wake up, bucko. Or maybe you're one of THEM, you sound like it. In our nice, 'friendly' political climate we have now, it is one that enables, even encourages bigots and haters to put forth their bile and discrimination; it's more prevalent than ever. I can't remember in the past decade seeing as much anti-black, anti-gay, anti-latino sentiment as has surfaced in the last couple of years. Miami Beach has been a gay mecca for as long as I can remember, with few if any real incidents in recent times. Now, it's starting again - there have been several high-profile examples of gay bashing, attacks, and vandalism. South Beach - couples attacked as they left a bar. A single guy just walking home from the bar after hours - assaulted by a crowd. Wilton Manors - businesses vandalized. This kind of thing was prevalent in the 60's and 70's, then went quiet. People got along, even if they didn't agree.

Now the nastiness is back. It's like the 1960's all over again.
..everything works out in the end.
 
dtw9
Posts: 995
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:28 pm

slvrblt wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.


No, not a multitude of reasons. You better wake up, bucko. Or maybe you're one of THEM, you sound like it. In our nice, 'friendly' political climate we have now, it is one that enables, even encourages bigots and haters to put forth their bile and discrimination; it's more prevalent than ever. I can't remember in the past decade seeing as much anti-black, anti-gay, anti-latino sentiment as has surfaced in the last couple of years. Miami Beach has been a gay mecca for as long as I can remember, with few if any real incidents in recent times. Now, it's starting again - there have been several high-profile examples of gay bashing, attacks, and vandalism. South Beach - couples attacked as they left a bar. A single guy just walking home from the bar after hours - assaulted by a crowd. Wilton Manors - businesses vandalized. This kind of thing was prevalent in the 60's and 70's, then went quiet. People got along, even if they didn't agree.

Now the nastiness is back. It's like the 1960's all over again.



Obviously you've been in a coma for the last ten years.


http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/gay ... -1.1430370

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/gays ... le-6368505
 
Virtual737
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:29 pm

Why does Mr Cooley refer to his "partner" as "traveling companion" and "companion" rather than "husband", "boyfriend" or "partner"? Are they a couple or just friends, gay or not? I don't refer to my wife as my "traveling companion". She has always been either girlfriend, fiance or wife. Seems rather odd.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:29 pm

32andBelow wrote:
DL717 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
flight crew are notoriously full of shit.


So are passengers when they don't get their way.

Well I’d think some of these news outlets would marginally vet this story. Crew on Facebook just spread rumors.


Half the time they can’t even get their grammar or punctuation right. I seriously doubt they spend more than a few moments or minutes trying to vet a story like this. The guy likely will clam up while waiting to see what Alaska will do, and the ONLY thing Alaska can do is say what they’ve said.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1759
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:43 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.


I am befuddle by your post. Have you ever heard of the statement "when good men do nothing..." So who determines whose day is better to be ruined than someone else's? I have witnessed that people do care that someone is gay- especially amongst minority ethnicities. You must be living under a rock if you can claim you are not aware that in some countries people are killed simply because of their perceived sexual orientation. Enough already!
From what was posted- these two men paid for their seats, checked in on time and boarded. It is an insult and ridiculous that they were even asked to give up their seats, in the first place. What gave the other couple any more rights to sit together in the premium cabin than anyone else who paid for seats in that cabin? What made them more deserving? What made the FA think that these two men were not travelling together and wanted to sit together just as much? When told that they were a couple why did the FA not back down and tell the man/woman couple one of them have to sit in coach?
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1759
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:46 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
Why does Mr Cooley refer to his "partner" as "traveling companion" and "companion" rather than "husband", "boyfriend" or "partner"? Are they a couple or just friends, gay or not? I don't refer to my wife as my "traveling companion". She has always been either girlfriend, fiance or wife. Seems rather odd.


What does it matter? If they paid for their seats in the premium cabin - it bears no relevance.
r
 
cynlb
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:14 pm

I think the better way they could have handled this situation would have been to offer them compensation to take a later flight instead of moving one to coach (especially if they purchased first class tickets )
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:15 pm

Folks demanding whole crews be fired because of a Facebook accusations have obviously never worked customer service and/or are sociopaths.
 
777PHX
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:24 pm

mbmbos wrote:
No need to examine my reading comprehension. I never disputed that he was going to be downgraded to coach...or kicked off the plane. The rest is your conjecture.


Really? Because in what you originally said, you don't seem to have any comprehension of the apparent sequence of events. The seat move was never within first class as you state below. The move had nothing to do with his particular seat or discriminating against them because they were a (gay) couple. They were moving him based on their (possibly mistaken) understanding that he was in the wrong class of service. He chose to resist so his only option was to deplane.

mbmbos wrote:
And I seriously doubt your reading comprehension. From what I gathered from the article, the FA wanted to re-seat one of the men in first class in order to seat a couple together. When the two men informed the FA they were also a couple, the FA didn't back down but threatened to kick one of the men off the plane. So the FA refused to afford the gay couple the same status as the heterosexual couple.

This may very well be a matter of the airline disciplining/educating a few airline employees. But it is not trivial and doesn't deserve your dismissive tone.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:25 pm

cynlb wrote:
I think the better way they could have handled this situation would have been to offer them compensation to take a later flight instead of moving one to coach (especially if they purchased first class tickets )


To be clear Premium “Class” on Alaska is not a separate fare class like First Class (or Delta Comfort). So no one’s fare or (technical) class of service would be downgraded. Premium Class is still an economy/coach fare. While it is still unclear what actually happened, in a normal circumstance I would imagine one party would be moved back to a regular main cabin seat and refunded the Premium Class fee. Assuming this was a computer or crew error I would imagine it would be based on fare class and/or elite status if two people did in fact pay for the same seat.
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15410
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:00 pm

danj555 wrote:
“Alaska Airlines has a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind,” - This is an excerpt from their public statement.

Ok if you really do have a zero tolerance. Then fire the involved employee. If you say zero then mean zero. Zero = Zero.


If this turns out to be the product of deliberate discrimination on the part of the employee, that's precisely what will happen. If this was simply an error in judgment or not following proper policy/procedures, that's a different story.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Bald1983
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:10 pm

sibibom wrote:
Gets popcorn, this discussion shall be fun!

If what they are saying is true, Alaska Airlines has dropped the ball here. It's a PR disaster unless they turned it around and become the preferred airline for the alt-right and the anti-LGBTQI religious gang.


You almost started to be profound but you messed up. Instead you just decided to name call. I have news for you: Conservatives do not hate gays and hating anyone is the antithesis of what Christianity is all about.

Here is how it should have been resolved. Assuming the same fare class, first ones to check in should have been able to stay together. Alaska should also have offered to have others switch seats. Then Alaska would not have egg on its face and we would not be having this exchange.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1251
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:27 pm

Companies as a whole should have stayed off facebook, even social media. The comments are ridiculous. Social Media and it's mob mentality is no win ever. I've seen an airport announce new service and half the comments are about something not related to the announcement but some bitching about something else like concession pricing.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 642
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Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:41 pm

sturmovik wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
For those of you who truly believe Alaska Airlines moved the guy because of his sexual orientation, nobody at Alaska, nor anyone on that plane besides he and Cooley knew he was gay until AFTER he was asked to move.

This is the problem with some people. You cry foul over something that isn't discriminatory and make it difficult for those who have truly been discriminated against.
I'm not 100% sure if they do it anymore, but Alaska Airlines has offered special fares and deals to the bay community for a very long time, I highly doubt that they are suddenly anti-gay.


Fair enough, but if you read the bloody article, it's clear that the F/A did not back off AFTER learning that Cooley and his partner were a gay couple. This is not a case of the airline employee going down the aisle thinking "hm, I wonder who's gay that I can kick off this flight". For some of you, it appears that the event needs to be that blatant for it to qualify as discrimination. After being made aware that Cooley and his partner were a couple, it appears that the F/A still insisted on reseating them in favour of a heterosexual couple. And in doing so, treated the gay relationship as less valuable than the straight one. And that's discrimination.


Instead of trying to find out why 2 people had the same seat assignment and working from there, the FA told the person already seated to move or get off the plane. Maybe in her mind, she had to double down so that her authority wouldn't be questioned.
Hell, maybe the guy acted like a jerk. All we know is Mr. Cooley's side of what happened.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
HWC1977
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:46 pm

These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 642
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:51 pm

Let me clarify from a previous post.


The fact that we're discussing the sexual orientation of passengers and employees is ludicrous. This should never have been a discussion.

Clearly, this flight attendant and gate agents for this flight lack basic critical thinking skills.
It should have been caught at the gate as seat x had already been boarded. Fail 1
Once it was realized by all party's involved, they should have asked the person NOT already seated if they could take another seat. Fail 2
If taking another seat was not a satisfactory solution, then going back and looking to see who paid for or who was upgraded to that seat. If both people paid for/upgraded, then fare class, status, time of check in. If one paid and the other didn't, then the one who paid gets the seat. Fail 3

Personally, I would have asked to see the guy's ticket and then told the other person, "sorry, but he was here first" and then try to reseat that person elsewhere....
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:52 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
danj555 wrote:
“Alaska Airlines has a zero-tolerance policy for discrimination of any kind,” - This is an excerpt from their public statement.

Ok if you really do have a zero tolerance. Then fire the involved employee. If you say zero then mean zero. Zero = Zero.


If this turns out to be the product of deliberate discrimination on the part of the employee, that's precisely what will happen. If this was simply an error in judgment or not following proper policy/procedures, that's a different story.



I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, at the number of people who have attacked the airline and demanded the employee be fired based on an incomplete story. Of all industries, airlines have seemed one of the better ones for recognizing and respecting the gay community, yet that “goodwill” has shown to be worthless based on the reaction to an incomplete story. The consensus on the employee seems to be “Off with their head!” I have no problem with someone losing their job, but let’s at least wait and see what the facts are.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:55 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
Let me clarify from a previous post.


The fact that we're discussing the sexual orientation of passengers and employees is ludicrous. This should never have been a discussion.

Clearly, this flight attendant and gate agents for this flight lack basic critical thinking skills.
It should have been caught at the gate as seat x had already been boarded. Fail 1
Once it was realized by all party's involved, they should have asked the person NOT already seated if they could take another seat. Fail 2
If taking another seat was not a satisfactory solution, then going back and looking to see who paid for or who was upgraded to that seat. If both people paid for/upgraded, then fare class, status, time of check in. If one paid and the other didn't, then the one who paid gets the seat. Fail 3

Personally, I would have asked to see the guy's ticket and then told the other person, "sorry, but he was here first" and then try to reseat that person elsewhere....


I was offline for a few hours so forgive me for asking, but clearly there has been a definitive agreement on what exactly transpired on that flight. Can you provide a link so I can catch up? Thanks.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:56 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
danj555 wrote:
I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, at the number of people who have attacked the airline and demanded the employee be fired based on an incomplete story. Of all industries, airlines have seemed one of the better ones for recognizing and respecting the gay community, yet that “goodwill” has shown to be worthless based on the reaction to an incomplete story. The consensus on the employee seems to be “Off with their head!” I have no problem with someone losing their job, but let’s at least wait and see what the facts are.


I’m Progressive, but all these Liberal and Progressive SJWs demanding a WHOLE CREW of unionized employees be immediately fired based off one man’s Facebook post is incredibly embarrassing. You should see the Twitter psychos.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:08 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:


I’m Progressive, but all these Liberal and Progressive SJWs demanding a WHOLE CREW of unionized employees be immediately fired based off one man’s Facebook post is incredibly embarrassing. You should see the Twitter psychos.


I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:12 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:



I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.


They’ll be over it when they need to fly to Vegas and Alaska is $3 cheaper.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:17 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:


I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.


They’ll be over it when they need to fly to Vegas and Alaska is $3 cheaper.


I have no idea. It’s clear, though, that for a lot of people, any misstep is unforgivable.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
Posts: 235
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Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:29 pm

Roughly an hour ago, Mr. Cooley posted an update on his Twitter account indicating that AS has reached out and apologized, he has accepted their apology and they are working to make things right.

(Sorry, but I haven't yet mastered how to upload images, etc... onto this site, but I keep trying) :-)
 
laxmia
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:04 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:47 pm

HWC1977 wrote:
These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.


By your logic, the straight couple who were second to board should have just accepted they had to sit separately. Why should seated guests, gay or straight, have to move to accommodate other guests in the same situation but second to the party?

It wouldn’t be a big deal, except the FA made a judgement that the straight couple had more of a right to sit together than the gay couple (without providing any justification to the guests if there WAS a valid reason beyond prejudice).
 
grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:48 pm

VC10er wrote:
As a gay man myself who has traveled often with my parter- who shares my top status (but we are not married) if I purchased F tickets for us both and we were seated, I would not budge for someone else unless it was explained in great detail why the other passenger deserves the seat more than him or me, that was paid for and for which I’m already seated.
The time to make a swap because another passenger has more status, or paid a higher fare was long gone.
I just cannot believe any airline or staff would factor in gay v straight unless a staffer said something indicating that.
I only experienced an anti-gay incident once when a FA said something horrible about other FA’s who were gay. But she said it to me not knowing I was gay. So while I believe every airline probably has the right policies in place, they can’t account for every bigot in their ranks- until something happens.
My question is: once seated in your rightfully paid seat, can an airline bump you out of your seat in favor of another pax who’s either paid more or who’s status is higher? Just because they double booked seat 2F twice? And how does that even happen today with computers?
I’d wait for my $10,000 before I got off.
I’m on my side, and on the side of this gay couple. Are we sure that Alaska gave preference to a straight couple who wished to be together over a same-sex couple?
And I do not blame them for not wanting to fly separated. It is often rare you get to travel sitting next to your loved one. Gay or straight, or even just BFF’s!



100% AGREE. Nice post.
 
laxmia
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:04 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:48 pm

HWC1977 wrote:
These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.


By your logic, the straight couple who were second to board should have just accepted they had to sit separately. Why should seated guests, gay or straight, have to move to accommodate other guests in the same situation but second to the party?

It wouldn’t be a big deal, except the FA made a judgement that the straight couple had more of a right to sit together than the gay couple (without providing any justification to the guests if there WAS a valid reason beyond prejudice).
 
zippy
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun May 11, 2014 9:46 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:57 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
For those of you who truly believe Alaska Airlines moved the guy because of his sexual orientation, nobody at Alaska, nor anyone on that plane besides he and Cooley knew he was gay until AFTER he was asked to move.


No, in fact I'd guess the crew thought the two men couldn't possibly be a couple. That's the problem. Seating a heterosexual couple was more important than seating a homosexual couple. Would AS have bumped a hetero couple in the same situation? I don't get it, if the airlines wanted someone off the plane that badly why not just pay? When I flew SFO-MIA last year on AA the offers started at $1200 per person (explicitly excluding folks with connecting flights) and there was zero hassle.
 
ubeema
Posts: 383
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:48 am

Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:00 pm

Re-posting official Alaska statement on the situation (thanks tlecam):

Image

Source: https://twitter.com/alaskaair/status/10 ... 40065?s=21
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1934
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:08 pm

VC10er wrote:
My question is: once seated in your rightfully paid seat, can an airline bump you out of your seat in favor of another pax who’s either paid more or who’s status is higher? Just because they double booked seat 2F twice? And how does that even happen today with computers?


VC10er wrote:
And how does that even happen today with computers?


Off topic, I know, but this kind of IT failure demonstrates to me that we're a long, long, long way for safe autonomous flight. Or put another way, we all experience computer failures on a regular basis - what makes anyone think that we're anywhere near ready for passenger carrying drone flights?

You might think that seating software has little or nothing to do with flight control and operating software and/or processes. But I firmly remember how nearly every navigation database corrected one or more errors, to only introduce others. It was a never ending, vicious cycle. Where humans are involved - including software and more - errors will be made.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2915
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:16 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Companies as a whole should have stayed off facebook, even social media. The comments are ridiculous. Social Media and it's mob mentality is no win ever. I've seen an airport announce new service and half the comments are about something not related to the announcement but some bitching about something else like concession pricing.


One of the smartest posts in this whole thread, not a week goes by that I don't get a call from our social media team to let me know the world is coming to an end due to the actions of one of our employees, once investigated 99.999999% of the time it's BS, hell last week on tripadvisor a person posted that I (meaning me) was attempting to break into their hotel room at 3am.......Yeah, seriously...... The internet is great for many things, sadly though it has given a voice to the lunatic fringe.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, at the number of people who have attacked the airline and demanded the employee be fired based on an incomplete story.


The pack mentality.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
The consensus on the employee seems to be “Off with their head!” I have no problem with someone losing their job, but let’s at least wait and see what the facts are.


It is the same in most customer service industries.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.


It does and it is.

Here is the simple version, an employee of AS screwed up, sorry protectors of all airline employees, it happened, how can I say it happened ? Simple, AS have owned it, their social media team (and executive team) did an outstanding job of getting in front of this (maybe UA should hire a few of them), they know that even if they were in the right, which based off of the facts known so far they were not (sorry but as soon as the FA found out they were a couple she have backed down) they had already lost in the face of public response. Better to suck it up in public, admit you were wrong, even if it turns out you were not (you listening UA) their twitter team seems to be proactive in responding to replies to the tweet owning the f**k up :

https://twitter.com/AlaskaAir/status/10 ... 9694040065

Give it a day and this will have disappeared and the burning torch brigade will have moved on.

Now, a thought, and please, would our gay or lesbian members please set me right if my thinking is way off base......When it comes to gay and lesbian couples traveling together, I am thinking there should be a way to flag it in the reservation and manifest, this would of course require the customer making the booking to notify the airline in some way, but, it would help to avert these types of situations....
 
skyharborshome
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:19 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:19 pm

ubeema wrote:
Re-posting official Alaska statement on the situation (thanks tlecam):

Image

Source: https://twitter.com/alaskaair/status/10 ... 40065?s=21


And this is how a "PR nightmare" comes to a close. If my partner was made to move or if we were asked to leave the plane I would be livid and respond the same exact way Mr. Cooley did even if he exaggerated. If the airline reached out to me, refunded the ticket and globally admitted an error was made then I would actually gain respect for them and no longer bash them. Sounds like a quick resolution regardless of who made the mistake. Perfection is not ours to have in this world. Hopefully tolerance, patience and understanding will conquer all else.
Fly CHD!
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1759
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:25 pm

cynlb wrote:
I think the better way they could have handled this situation would have been to offer them compensation to take a later flight instead of moving one to coach (especially if they purchased first class tickets )


An even better way to handle the situation is to have moved on to someone else if the pax said they will not move.

There is something strange about this though, if the seats are in the premium cabin wouldn't it be 2 and 2 seating? If one person was asked to give up his seat does this mean the male/female couple were going to be in seats C and D?
 
VC10er
Posts: 4095
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:34 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
Companies as a whole should have stayed off facebook, even social media. The comments are ridiculous. Social Media and it's mob mentality is no win ever. I've seen an airport announce new service and half the comments are about something not related to the announcement but some bitching about something else like concession pricing.


One of the smartest posts in this whole thread, not a week goes by that I don't get a call from our social media team to let me know the world is coming to an end due to the actions of one of our employees, once investigated 99.999999% of the time it's BS, hell last week on tripadvisor a person posted that I (meaning me) was attempting to break into their hotel room at 3am.......Yeah, seriously...... The internet is great for many things, sadly though it has given a voice to the lunatic fringe.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I’m a bit surprised, to be honest, at the number of people who have attacked the airline and demanded the employee be fired based on an incomplete story.


The pack mentality.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
The consensus on the employee seems to be “Off with their head!” I have no problem with someone losing their job, but let’s at least wait and see what the facts are.


It is the same in most customer service industries.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I saw some of the Facebook stuff, and it was a lot of “Never flying Alaska again!” stuff. Im not part of the gay community but it just seems a bit kneejerk.


It does and it is.

Here is the simple version, an employee of AS screwed up, sorry protectors of all airline employees, it happened, how can I say it happened ? Simple, AS have owned it, their social media team (and executive team) did an outstanding job of getting in front of this (maybe UA should hire a few of them), they know that even if they were in the right, which based off of the facts known so far they were not (sorry but as soon as the FA found out they were a couple she have backed down) they had already lost in the face of public response. Better to suck it up in public, admit you were wrong, even if it turns out you were not (you listening UA) their twitter team seems to be proactive in responding to replies to the tweet owning the f**k up :

https://twitter.com/AlaskaAir/status/10 ... 9694040065

Give it a day and this will have disappeared and the burning torch brigade will have moved on.

Now, a thought, and please, would our gay or lesbian members please set me right if my thinking is way off base......When it comes to gay and lesbian couples traveling together, I am thinking there should be a way to flag it in the reservation and manifest, this would of course require the customer making the booking to notify the airline in some way, but, it would help to avert these types of situations....


Dear Jetwet1, there is a way. At least on UA I can designate one person to be my flying partner (straight, gay, whatever) and they have my equal status. It’s in my profile and when I book us both it’s noted. He even gets his own 1k card, and it’s printed on his boarding pass. (But that might change soon for him!)
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
max999
Posts: 1132
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:40 pm

HWC1977 wrote:
These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.


First of all, it's not a lifestyle because it's not a choice to be gay.

Second, beyond the fact the couple is gay. It's unfair for anyone to be forced to move to coach when they have a premium ticket especially as Alaska admitted they made a seating assignment mistake. In a situation like this, it's right for any normal person to not 'get over it' (as you suggested), but instead complain about their punitive treatment. So if this happened to you personally, are you suggesting you would take it lying down and move to the back?
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
DDR
Posts: 1632
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:44 pm

[quote="AEROFAN"

There is something strange about this though, if the seats are in the premium cabin wouldn't it be 2 and 2 seating? If one person was asked to give up his seat does this mean the male/female couple were going to be in seats C and D?[/quote]

They were NOT in first class.
Last edited by DDR on Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4095
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:46 pm

HWC1977 wrote:
These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.


WRONG! SO VERY WRONG! “Lifestyle” is a bigot doggy whistle. If you didn’t know that, now you do. So I kindly ask please don’t use that term again as it is deeply offensive. Choosing to live in a rural area rather than an urban setting is a lifestyle choice- not being born gay.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
DDR
Posts: 1632
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:52 pm

VC10er wrote:
HWC1977 wrote:
These two guys need to get over it. You had to sit separately for a few hours. Big deal. People don't always have to make special accommodations just because of your lifestyle. She asked you to move BEFORE she even knew you were gay, just move on.


WRONG! SO VERY WRONG! “Lifestyle” is a bigot doggy whistle. If you didn’t know that, now you do. So I kindly ask please don’t use that term again as it is deeply offensive. Choosing to live in a rural area rather than an urban setting is a lifestyle choice- not being born gay.


Exactly! Being gay is not a lifestyle. Geesh.
 
AirCalSNA
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:28 am

They should have flown on Southwest.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14900
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:25 am

The wording of Cooley’s complaint is very specific and reveals a few things:

He mentions assigned seats, as if that is set in stone.

He mentions assigned seats and never claims the two were sitting next to each other and they likely weren’t. This of course makes sense because how would it help a straight couple sit together if one had to sit next to Cooley? It wouldn’t. So the whole argument is comparing apples to oranges.

Apples: he and his partner were both sitting in F but NOT together. The partner was assigned an upgrade seat by mistake when his seat was already booked as part of a pair by another couple. That couple arrives, they get the seat, and Cooley’s partner gets de-upgraded back to his booked coach seat.

Oranges: Cooley and partner were sitting together and the crew decided to upgrade a woman and downgrade the gay man so the woman could sit in the same class as her male partner while the gay man has to go to coach.

From what I know of flying for decades, it’s the first scenario that is reality. The second makes no sense at all.

Moral of the story: if you want to be assured of sitting next to your partner, you must pay for the same class of service and choose seats next to each other.

Edit: when I was flying with my fiancé there were a few times where I cleared upgrade but she didn’t. I chose to sit with her in Y and declined my upgrade rather than be seated apart.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:54 am

AEROFAN wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
Why does Mr Cooley refer to his "partner" as "traveling companion" and "companion" rather than "husband", "boyfriend" or "partner"? Are they a couple or just friends, gay or not? I don't refer to my wife as my "traveling companion". She has always been either girlfriend, fiance or wife. Seems rather odd.


What does it matter? If they paid for their seats in the premium cabin - it bears no relevance.
r


Of course it bears relevance. Mr Cooley's complaint is that a straight couple were given preferential treatment over a gay couple. "Couple" implies a person with their significant other. Travel companion is a strange term for a significant other.
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1080
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

Re: Gay couple ALLEGEDLY bumped for straight couple...

Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:56 am

slvrblt wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
I'm tired of a large part of the gay community turning everything that goes wrong for them into a case of discrimination regardless of the incident. I've witnessed more than anything that people don't care if you're gay. People are just annoyed that you're making it into a scene and ruining everyone else's day. If there was true discrimination in whatever happened to you file a report and handle it later; which if the article is correct they did through facebook if only to create a PR issue to get AS's attention. Everyone has been discriminated against for some reason or the other. Just because you're gay, black, hispanic, etc. doesn't mean that you get to pull that card for everything in life that goes wrong for you. Bad things happen for multitudes of reasons.


No, not a multitude of reasons. You better wake up, bucko. Or maybe you're one of THEM, you sound like it. In our nice, 'friendly' political climate we have now, it is one that enables, even encourages bigots and haters to put forth their bile and discrimination; it's more prevalent than ever. I can't remember in the past decade seeing as much anti-black, anti-gay, anti-latino sentiment as has surfaced in the last couple of years. Miami Beach has been a gay mecca for as long as I can remember, with few if any real incidents in recent times. Now, it's starting again - there have been several high-profile examples of gay bashing, attacks, and vandalism. South Beach - couples attacked as they left a bar. A single guy just walking home from the bar after hours - assaulted by a crowd. Wilton Manors - businesses vandalized. This kind of thing was prevalent in the 60's and 70's, then went quiet. People got along, even if they didn't agree.

Now the nastiness is back. It's like the 1960's all over again.


Yeah typical of today.... I didn't realize they would eat my face sobs the woman who voted for the Leopard Eating Faces Party....
 
HWC1977
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Gay couple allegedly bumped for straight couple...

Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:36 am

max999 wrote:
Second, beyond the fact the couple is gay. It's unfair for anyone to be forced to move to coach when they have a premium ticket especially as Alaska admitted they made a seating assignment mistake. In a situation like this, it's right for any normal person to not 'get over it' (as you suggested), but instead complain about their punitive treatment. So if this happened to you personally, are you suggesting you would take it lying down and move to the back?


I would definitely complain. That's between me and the airline. I wouldn't be on the 10 o'clock news telling the world how victimized I was. People got to stop having these mini "revolutions" every time they feel slighted. Your not brave, just a cry baby.
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