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Eitilt
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:54 am

Yes. EIGCF was damaged by an airbridge and needs to be repaired over the weekend.
 
embraer420
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:51 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:02 am

BrianDromey wrote:
embraer420 wrote:
So what's the story with Pobeda then?

They are wholly owned by SU, I wonder if that makes any difference?


Yes, it's very confusing, initially the Irish Times said Aeroflot was going to launch the route, then Pobeda was given rights to launch the route, and now the booking engines show Aeroflot is going to be flying the route. I hope it's Aeroflot as they have good connections to east Asia.

I wonder how this will affect other airlines carrying pax from DUB-MOW, like S7 and the Moldovan Airlines.
 
mast2407
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:15 am

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:18 am

Eitilt wrote:
Yes. EIGCF was damaged by an airbridge and needs to be repaired over the weekend.


Ouch. Where did this happen?
 
Eitilt
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:25 am

Dublin
 
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OA260
Posts: 23813
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:31 am

captainmeeerkat wrote:
Have I missed something?

Did a search for Moscow to Dublin in December and a booking site gave me the option of Aeroflot! I thought that Pobeda (the Aeroflot low cost branch) had recently been give approval but not AF itself..

This is super news and long overdue.


Yes a mate of mine is booked DUB-SVO-BKK for November. Great fares are out there and some good J Class fares Via some Consolidators. Great connections.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 800
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:39 am

Great news to have Aeroflot back in Ireland big time . Excellent timings and lots of great connection fares esp in business class already . A real game change .

Did Moscow ever go through with that three day transit visa proposal for EU citizens ?
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5375
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:56 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Skyblue39 wrote:
SU is loaded as daily service from 28OCT

Yet another lost opportunity for EI ...

Cheers,

C.

Not every route is a missed opportunity for Aer Lingus, some of them would be better suited to other airlines and Moscow is definitely one of them.

Russia's economy is hardly setting the world alight, it's still awkward visiting thanks to visa requirements and the relationship with the west is still very much strained but there are also positives, a huge interest in everything Russian, the mystery and intrigue of the Cold War era still brings many to Moscow every year and the city itself is rich in art, architecture and a reemergence of Russian cuisine after the government rejected foreign food imports in response to western sanctions. Ireland is also of interest to Russians, the two nations have an "opposites attract" situation with massive differences in size and culture while sitting at opposite ends of Europe.

With that said, this type of route would still be difficult for Aer Lingus, the airline has no brand recognition in Russia, they'd be relying on the Irish market, at over four hours flying time the yield would need to be exceptional to justify dedicating an aircraft to it, scheduling would be awkward with an overnight arriving early in Moscow or a day flight arriving late afternoon and missing a day of multiple European sectors where there's undoubtably more money to be made.

Ryanair was actually the Irish airline granted permission by Russian regulators to operate Moscow and St Petersburg, that was five years ago now and still no route announcement. It's very telling when Ryanair don't have the appetite for something.

Aeroflot stand a much better chance, Russian based and capable of stimulating demand in their home market and with just enough recognition in Ireland to get things moving over here too. Aeroflot can schedule aircraft more effectively and are likely to attract a higher yield than an Irish based carrier.

While Aer Lingus have struggled in eastern and northern Europe, they've grown elsewhere. We've seen expansion at Rome, Lisbon, Lyon, Bordeaux, Prague and Vienna. I'm bitterly disappointed with their Warsaw cancellation and retreat from eastern/northern Europe but it will take a complete network rethink with investment from IAG in order to change things, new aircraft being the key factor in my view. Until this happens, Aer Lingus will remain focused on the key European cities which continue to grow while raking in the cash from Spain, Portugal, Croatia and the Canaries. It might not be exciting enough for some people here, but it's profitable.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:16 pm

EI have missed nothing .... this is Aeroflots game for the Moscow hub , EI brings nothing to the table that isn’t being done by 20 other airlines from Warsaw to Frankfurt already ... even Moldova is in the Russian transit market going West ...
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:28 pm

Galwayman wrote:
EI have missed nothing .... this is Aeroflots game for the Moscow hub

Moscow - North America is arguably a bigger market than Dublin - Russia / Asia, so I'd argue that EI have missed out here. The opportunity for EI is heightened by the fact that SU may soon be restricted from flying to the US at all, further encouraging one-stop options through the EU.

Galwayman wrote:
EI brings nothing to the table that isn’t being done by 20 other airlines from Warsaw to Frankfurt already ...

Well, DUB has US pre-clearance which is one advantage, and then there's the fact that DUB T2 is arguably a nicer transit experience than one of the mega-hubs, because it requires less walking. EI also have niche destinations like BDL (which will increase over time, with the 321NEO's).

shamrock350 wrote:
With that said, this type of route would still be difficult for Aer Lingus, the airline has no brand recognition in Russia ...

I don't think SU has a comparatively superior level of recognition in Ireland (they dropped Shannon yonks ago), and whatever image they do have is likely to be tarnished by the current negative publicity in western countries about all things Russia-related. Though, I do wish them the best.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:44 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Russia's economy is hardly setting the world alight ...

Nor was Ireland's when EK launched DUB shortly after the bailout. There are opportunities everywhere, and I'd argue that the opportunity for EI as a cheaper and less premium brand relative to the likes of BA, LH and other legacies, aligns it well with the trading down of brands in recessions.

But even if economic growth is everything, EI is still not exploiting a number of the high-growth economies within range of its 320's - Poland for one (growing at about 4.5%, and with no WAW competition) - and Israel as another (also growing at about 4.5%, with no year-round TLV competition).

Cheers,

C.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:54 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
EI have missed nothing .... this is Aeroflots game for the Moscow hub

Moscow - North America is arguably a bigger market than Dublin - Russia / Asia, so I'd argue that EI have missed out here. The opportunity for EI is heightened by the fact that SU may soon be restricted from flying to the US at all, further encouraging one-stop options through the EU.

While it has some potential, Aer Lingus offer very little over more established carriers like Aeroflot with non stops or Lufthansa, BA and countless other European flag carriers with extensive US networks. Also relying on transfer passengers on such a long, potentially low yielding route is risky. With regards to Aeroflot possibly losing their rights to the US, it's a long shot, the gains would be minimal and it's never a good idea to invest the amount it takes to launch a new route on a possibility or hunch.

planemanofnz wrote:
I don't think SU has a comparatively superior level of recognition in Ireland (they dropped Shannon yonks ago), and whatever image they do have is likely to be tarnished by the current negative publicity in western countries about all things Russia-related. Though, I do wish them the best.

Aeroflot are undoubtably a bigger name in aviation and it would be easier for them to get their name out in Ireland than it would be for Aer Lingus to do so in Russia. While Aeroflot cancelled SNN years ago, Aer Lingus have never step foot in Russia, closest they would have got is skirting around the Kaliningrad border on their way to Vilnius.

Also the suggestion that some may see Aeroflot in a negative way due to Russian relations backs up my point about the weaker tourism and business situation between Russia and the west, if someone is put off flying a Russian airline then they are very unlikely to want to visit or do business with Russia in the first place. Aer Lingus operating the route wouldn't change that.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:04 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
EI have missed nothing .... this is Aeroflots game for the Moscow hub

Moscow - North America is arguably a bigger market than Dublin - Russia / Asia, so I'd argue that EI have missed out here. The opportunity for EI is heightened by the fact that SU may soon be restricted from flying to the US at all, further encouraging one-stop options through the EU.

Galwayman wrote:
EI brings nothing to the table that isn’t being done by 20 other airlines from Warsaw to Frankfurt already ...

Well, DUB has US pre-clearance which is one advantage, and then there's the fact that DUB T2 is arguably a nicer transit experience than one of the mega-hubs, because it requires less walking. EI also have niche destinations like BDL (which will increase over time, with the 321NEO's).

shamrock350 wrote:
With that said, this type of route would still be difficult for Aer Lingus, the airline has no brand recognition in Russia ...

I don't think SU has a comparatively superior level of recognition in Ireland (they dropped Shannon yonks ago), and whatever image they do have is likely to be tarnished by the current negative publicity in western countries about all things Russia-related. Though, I do wish them the best.

Cheers,

C.


Can you suggest timings that work for EI from/ to Moscow to feed the Dublin transatlantic hub ? Using a single A320 efficiently . I can’t make it work

The discounted business class prices ex Moscow won’t work either as nearly half the flight to Boston would be in economy a320 ...

I’d rather see EI in Mexico City than Moscow to be honest
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:29 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
Russia's economy is hardly setting the world alight ...

Nor was Ireland's when EK launched DUB shortly after the bailout. There are opportunities everywhere, and I'd argue that the opportunity for EI as a cheaper and less premium brand relative to the likes of BA, LH and other legacies, aligns it well with the trading down of brands in recessions.

But even if economic growth is everything, EI is still not exploiting a number of the high-growth economies within range of its 320's - Poland for one (growing at about 4.5%, and with no WAW competition) - and Israel as another (also growing at about 4.5%, with no year-round TLV competition).

Cheers,

C.

You mean the Emirates that launched Dubai, a mega hub with connections all over Southern Hemisphere at a time when thousands of young Irish decided Australia was the place to be? Emirtates with its huge, worldwide brand awareness and famous fleet of A380s? It's apples and oranges.

Aer Lingus served Poland for many years, POZ, KRK and WAW were a staple of the network and for a few Christmas periods they even operated A330s to WAW! At one point Warsaw had three airlines, LOT and Ryanair also served it alongside Aer Lingus before LOT cancelled and Ryanair suspended it before moving up the road to Modlin.

The market was boosted by the Polish population who moved here in the mid-2000s. Originally they went home for every birthday, wedding or funeral. Some of my close friends went home almost every weekend, desperately searching for the lowest fare in order to do so. A decade has passed and that population has settled and call Ireland home so they visit far less and this is the main reason for the overall decline to Poland, Lithuania and Latvia. It was a boom and bust situation. Only Ryanair had the ability to maintain the links and remain the dominant carrier in this market, the combination of Eastern European bases, lower fares and stronger brand recognition guaranteed this. Even easyJet struggle in this region of Europe from their home bases. Wizz were run out Ireland and never looked back.

In order for Aer Lingus to make Eastern Europe or Scandinavia work they'd need a new, smaller jet. A business case would need to be built, a fleet review carried out and the green light from IAG with massive investment from them to support it. It's not easy.

Aer Lingus have a small, tightly run and well utilised short haul fleet designed to maximise profits year round. Adding a new mid haul route would require an additional extra aircraft, extra pilots, cabin crew and maintenance. All of that requires extra investment so you need to guarantee Moscow or TLV would be profitable year round to justify the leasing costs, staff costs and that the aircraft is making money on those cold, dark November days.

Aer Lingus aren't in the business of ignoring routes for the sake of it.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:38 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
I don't think SU has a comparatively superior level of recognition in Ireland (they dropped Shannon yonks ago), and whatever image they do have is likely to be tarnished by the current negative publicity in western countries about all things Russia-related. Though, I do wish them the best.

Cheers,

C.


Actually funny you should say that but the other day when discussing the return to DUB with a friend they still had the old Soviet perception of SU and their old planes ! Just shows the public image of a company can stick for years. Of course todays SU is a decent product.
 
embraer420
Posts: 139
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:06 pm

It's crazy that no airline serves WAW from DUB. Unless EI manages to get A220s sometime in the future, LO would work better on the route. They have brilliant brand recognition in Poland, and strong recognition in the Polish community in Ireland. They have a hub in WAW which would be good for people connecting to the CIS and PEK/ICN/NRT. On the Dublin end people could connect to DL flights to the US. Also LOT have smaller planes available in the form of Embraers, which would be perfect for the route.

There are some destinations in the Middle East that are currently unserved as well. TLV is a big one, EI could offer seasonal flights on the A320s, or LY, FR or even 6H would work. In Turkey, SAW is an airport currently unserved, PC or FR would be good for this.
MCT is a busy hub nowadays, WY could provide an alternative to the ME3. There is a lot of O&D traffic to Dubai from Ireland, if EI had a codeshare with EK they could use the A321LRs to fly from ORK or SNN. FZ would also work on these routes with their 7M8s, or FZ/DY could serve DWC from DUB with the MAX.

Last but not least, Jeddah is a natural destination from DUB. Saudia have a big operation at JED and could fly seasonally, if not year round. At the very least, in the future there will be Hajj charters to JED from DUB.
 
KeevaOS
Posts: 27
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:28 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
Russia's economy is hardly setting the world alight ...

Nor was Ireland's when EK launched DUB shortly after the bailout. There are opportunities everywhere, and I'd argue that the opportunity for EI as a cheaper and less premium brand relative to the likes of BA, LH and other legacies, aligns it well with the trading down of brands in recessions.

But even if economic growth is everything, EI is still not exploiting a number of the high-growth economies within range of its 320's - Poland for one (growing at about 4.5%, and with no WAW competition) - and Israel as another (also growing at about 4.5%, with no year-round TLV competition).

Cheers,

C.

You mean the Emirates that launched Dubai, a mega hub with connections all over Southern Hemisphere at a time when thousands of young Irish decided Australia was the place to be? Emirtates with its huge, worldwide brand awareness and famous fleet of A380s? It's apples and oranges.

Aer Lingus served Poland for many years, POZ, KRK and WAW were a staple of the network and for a few Christmas periods they even operated A330s to WAW! At one point Warsaw had three airlines, LOT and Ryanair also served it alongside Aer Lingus before LOT cancelled and Ryanair suspended it before moving up the road to Modlin.

The market was boosted by the Polish population who moved here in the mid-2000s. Originally they went home for every birthday, wedding or funeral. Some of my close friends went home almost every weekend, desperately searching for the lowest fare in order to do so. A decade has passed and that population has settled and call Ireland home so they visit far less and this is the main reason for the overall decline to Poland, Lithuania and Latvia. It was a boom and bust situation. Only Ryanair had the ability to maintain the links and remain the dominant carrier in this market, the combination of Eastern European bases, lower fares and stronger brand recognition guaranteed this. Even easyJet struggle in this region of Europe from their home bases. Wizz were run out Ireland and never looked back.

In order for Aer Lingus to make Eastern Europe or Scandinavia work they'd need a new, smaller jet. A business case would need to be built, a fleet review carried out and the green light from IAG with massive investment from them to support it. It's not easy.

Aer Lingus have a small, tightly run and well utilised short haul fleet designed to maximise profits year round. Adding a new mid haul route would require an additional extra aircraft, extra pilots, cabin crew and maintenance. All of that requires extra investment so you need to guarantee Moscow or TLV would be profitable year round to justify the leasing costs, staff costs and that the aircraft is making money on those cold, dark November days.

Aer Lingus aren't in the business of ignoring routes for the sake of it.


Would you see Aer Lingus going back to CDG/AMS as a nightstop base for aircrafts in order to provide earlier flights into Dublin in the morning? Or even to create room in Dublin for their new a321LR?
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:01 pm

Small aircraft wont make WAW work, immigrant traffic will stick to FR and LOT are expanding T/A and basing the model heavily on EI which is likely what caused EI to exit.

Its telling such a route failed even with T/A feed. LOT may make 2-3 weekly work in future but EI are finished IMO. Eastern Europe is still very low yield.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:50 pm

Eastern Europe will always be low yield, the likes of Ryanair and Wizz Air make sure of that along with wage conditions and the local economy. LOT actually has quite the reputation among Poles, many consider it high fares and poor service while Air Baltic is much more respected in its home bases, many consider it reliable and value for money but it still struggles standing out against Ryanair and Wizz who dominate those markets with low fares.

KeevaOS wrote:
Would you see Aer Lingus going back to CDG/AMS as a nightstop base for aircrafts in order to provide earlier flights into Dublin in the morning? Or even to create room in Dublin for their new a321LR?

I think it needs serious consideration and would be more beneficial than playing fantasy route maps. I'm guessing costs are a huge factor unfortunately, overnighting an aircraft and crew isn't cheap and the advantages need to outweigh the costs.

Better connection possibilities is obviously the biggest draw, getting those early arrivals onto the first wave of transatlantic crossings must be of big interest to a hub carrier.

Congestion at Dublin isn't really a job for Aer Lingus to solve and I highly doubt management see it that way either but but having a few A320s overnight couldn't hurt...or could it?
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 1908
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:27 pm

Speaking of Warsaw, Aer Lingus will operate once off Christmas/NY flights. Looks like EI will return to Salzburg (9 Feb) while Tolouse will operate during ski season, the charter over the last couple of years moves to PGF. Good to see a return to ski markets.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:08 am

embraer420 wrote:
TLV is a big one ...

Yeah, I imagine there are quite a few market segments to tap, from religious (catholic pilgrimages to Jerusalem) to business (technology industries the general, with DUB and TLV being tech hubs), and DUB HUB connections through North America (marketing DUB's US pre-clearance).

Cheers,

C.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:17 am

planemanofnz wrote:
embraer420 wrote:
TLV is a big one ...

Yeah, I imagine there are quite a few market segments to tap, from religious (catholic pilgrimages to Jerusalem) to business (technology industries the general, with DUB and TLV


The Pilgrimages are not in demand anymore compared to what they were. It would not fill a plane once a week let alone more. Even the Popes visit to Ireland is pretty much a low key event despite some of the media hype!

TK pick up a lot of TLV traffic and it works well. Two good connections every day.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 1908
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:36 pm

Aer Lingus trying to pass blame again!

https://www.independent.ie/business/iri ... 07106.html

Aer Lingus has accused DAA of enjoying "large rewards" by setting itself passenger traffic targets at Dublin Airport that are too easy to beat.

The airline said in an 18-page statement to the Commission for Aviation Regulation that there had been "delays in the investment needed at the airport to increase capacity and adequately cater for the higher passenger numbers".

The submission is the latest broadside from the airline in a war of words between it and the airport authority over facilities at the airport.

DAA "has not always provided Aer Lingus and other airlines with an appropriate quality of service", said Aer Lingus.

In the meantime, "DAA has profited too much from beating the traffic forecast used in the last determination".

The airline was making its initial response to the Aviation Regulator as part of what is likely to be a long determination process for setting the next price cap governing airport charges at Dublin Airport.

Passenger growth at the airport is 20pc higher than the Commission expected at the time of the last determination, with the airport expecting to surpass 30 million passengers next year, it said.

This should lead to economies of scale from which passengers should benefit, said the airline.

The Aer Lingus submission said that a previous determination by the regulator of the maximum price the airport authority is allowed to charge per passenger "would have benefited from a different treatment of passenger forecasts".

Growth at Dublin Airport has regularly easily outstripped DAA's predictions for growth.

"The target should have been higher and the DAA should not have been able to enjoy such large rewards from beating a target that it had argued was too challenging," it said.


Aer Lingus urged the aviation regulator to “think about the rewards available to the DAA from beating traffic forecasts”.

It added: “There needs to be incentives for the DAA to develop good intelligence about likely traffic levels at the airport and to respond in a timely manner to a changed environment, rather than deferring decisions on its investment plans.”

The current determination placed no requirement on the DAA to undertake additional investments to meet the extra demand and has allowed the DAA to accrue profits on the basis of exceeding a baseline forecast for four years. The price cap should provide the DAA with the types of incentives it would face if it were subject to greater competitive pressures, said Aer Lingus.

“Yet, arguably in the last five years the DAA has realised profits by persuading the Commission to adopt a low traffic forecast and then beating that forecast,” it added.

“While a firm, such as Aer Lingus, operating in a competitive environment wants to increase sales, beating a single sales forecast is not, however, a sufficient condition for earning additional profit — as is the case for Dublin Airport.

“Nor could we afford to lock in to investment plans with no regard to changing market conditions. Moreover, we could not afford to increase traffic with no regard to the experience of our customers,” the airline argued.

Back to 2014 Regulation:

But the Aer Lingus position comes as something of an about-face to its stance ahead of the price determination for the current regulatory period.

A submission from the airline in 2014 stated that “there is no pressing need for further capacity expansion in the coming period”.

It went on to say that, in Aer Lingus’s opinion, DAA’s then proposed €308m capital investment plan “is larger than is necessary for a period that involves no justifiable case for significant capacity expansion”.
____

So the very same airlines restricted capital spend during 2014-2019 and now complain the daa are not spending. Will be interesting to see how much they try to reduce capital spend from 2020 and then complain again when there will be more problems down the line.
 
EI121
Posts: 239
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:42 am

Was there any official announcement from Dublin Airport regarding the Aeroflot flight? Just seems very strange they haven’t promoted it given they usually make route announcements once the flight becomes bookable?
 
Skyblue39
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:43 am

EI121 wrote:
Was there any official announcement from Dublin Airport regarding the Aeroflot flight? Just seems very strange they haven’t promoted it given they usually make route announcements once the flight becomes bookable?


Did you check the Dublin Airport website?
 
EI121
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:51 am

Yes I did. I doubled check prior to posting the above.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:53 am

Dublin Airport Opens New Transfer Facility

Dublin Airport has opened a new €16 million facility designed specifically for passengers who are transferring from one flight to another.

Built adjacent to Pier 4 close to Terminal 2, the new transfer area will greatly enhance Dublin Airport’s ability to compete for transfer traffic between Europe and North America and improve the quality of the product available for transferring passengers.

The new building has the capacity to welcome four times more connecting passengers than currently being handled, according to Dublin Airport Managing Director Vincent Harrison.

“We have been growing Dublin Airport as a connecting gateway between Europe and North America steadily over the past five years and this new transfer facility will help us to further expand that business.” Mr Harrison said.

The number of passengers transferring at Dublin Airport has increased from 550,000 in 2013 to almost 1.6 million passengers last year, and connecting passenger numbers are up a further 17% this year.

“Growing this part of our business is hugely important in helping us to expand our route network at Dublin Airport, as these additional transfer passengers underpin the viability of a route and also encourage airlines to launch new services and add capacity on existing routes,” Mr Harrison added.

www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detai ... r-facility
 
Skyblue39
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:54 am

They seem to be making announcement once SU Senior Management come to DUB. Whenever that is will be anybody’s guess!
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:25 am

What does the the new transfer facility mean for one stop security country ("clean") travellers connecting through Dublin? Do they still have to clear security?
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:34 am

OA260 wrote:
Dublin Airport Opens New Transfer Facility

Dublin Airport has opened a new €16 million facility designed specifically for passengers who are transferring from one flight to another.

Built adjacent to Pier 4 close to Terminal 2, the new transfer area will greatly enhance Dublin Airport’s ability to compete for transfer traffic between Europe and North America and improve the quality of the product available for transferring passengers.

The new building has the capacity to welcome four times more connecting passengers than currently being handled, according to Dublin Airport Managing Director Vincent Harrison.

“We have been growing Dublin Airport as a connecting gateway between Europe and North America steadily over the past five years and this new transfer facility will help us to further expand that business.” Mr Harrison said.

The number of passengers transferring at Dublin Airport has increased from 550,000 in 2013 to almost 1.6 million passengers last year, and connecting passenger numbers are up a further 17% this year.

“Growing this part of our business is hugely important in helping us to expand our route network at Dublin Airport, as these additional transfer passengers underpin the viability of a route and also encourage airlines to launch new services and add capacity on existing routes,” Mr Harrison added.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... r-facility

Fascinating to note the top 5 transatlantic connecting routes via DUB:
1. ORD-LHR
2. BOS-LHR
3. BOS-CDG
4. AMS-JFK
5. BOS-MAN

I wouldn't have thought such well-connected airports like LHR, CDG and AMS would be so high. I imagined the likes of "secondary" hubs like MXP, FCO, BUD, PRG etc. would have had the most demand. I'd be interested to know what proportion of BOS-SNN passengers connect through there onwards to LHR.
 
JAmie2k9
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:01 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
What does the the new transfer facility mean for one stop security country ("clean") travellers connecting through Dublin? Do they still have to clear security?


daa security no longer required for tier one counties and a quicker connection process overall.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:12 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
What does the the new transfer facility mean for one stop security country ("clean") travellers connecting through Dublin? Do they still have to clear security?


daa security no longer required for tier one counties and a quicker connection process overall.


Thanks. How are the tier one arriving passengers seperated from the rest?
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 23813
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:29 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Dublin Airport Opens New Transfer Facility

Dublin Airport has opened a new €16 million facility designed specifically for passengers who are transferring from one flight to another.

Built adjacent to Pier 4 close to Terminal 2, the new transfer area will greatly enhance Dublin Airport’s ability to compete for transfer traffic between Europe and North America and improve the quality of the product available for transferring passengers.

The new building has the capacity to welcome four times more connecting passengers than currently being handled, according to Dublin Airport Managing Director Vincent Harrison.

“We have been growing Dublin Airport as a connecting gateway between Europe and North America steadily over the past five years and this new transfer facility will help us to further expand that business.” Mr Harrison said.

The number of passengers transferring at Dublin Airport has increased from 550,000 in 2013 to almost 1.6 million passengers last year, and connecting passenger numbers are up a further 17% this year.

“Growing this part of our business is hugely important in helping us to expand our route network at Dublin Airport, as these additional transfer passengers underpin the viability of a route and also encourage airlines to launch new services and add capacity on existing routes,” Mr Harrison added.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... r-facility

Fascinating to note the top 5 transatlantic connecting routes via DUB:
1. ORD-LHR
2. BOS-LHR
3. BOS-CDG
4. AMS-JFK
5. BOS-MAN

I wouldn't have thought such well-connected airports like LHR, CDG and AMS would be so high. I imagined the likes of "secondary" hubs like MXP, FCO, BUD, PRG etc. would have had the most demand. I'd be interested to know what proportion of BOS-SNN passengers connect through there onwards to LHR.


Its such a mix these days even in markets that are nearly over served. Some hubs pick up prime cities that have decent point to point with plenty of competition. Its the same from DUB - USA. The amount of traffic that VS get on NYC MIA MCO is as popular as ever.
 
VFRonTop
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:02 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
Fascinating to note the top 5 transatlantic connecting routes via DUB:
1. ORD-LHR
2. BOS-LHR
3. BOS-CDG
4. AMS-JFK
5. BOS-MAN

I wouldn't have thought such well-connected airports like LHR, CDG and AMS would be so high. I imagined the likes of "secondary" hubs like MXP, FCO, BUD, PRG etc. would have had the most demand. I'd be interested to know what proportion of BOS-SNN passengers connect through there onwards to LHR.


I'd expect they are picking up a lot of the price sensitive passengers that wont pay the premium for direct. I'd love to see the data behind this to better understand the behaviour of customers as I expect that the EI offers the shortest overall journey time for each of these verses overflying other hubs
 
neutral
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:43 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:58 pm

Anyone in the know as to why the DAA are so slow at awarding the main contract for the North runway? I know they were legal court cases but I though these had all come to an end. It just seems so strange with a lot of the peak time slots full as to why the runway is delayed so much and mean while congestion is getting worse!!!!
 
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alancostello
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:20 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Dublin Airport Opens New Transfer Facility

Dublin Airport has opened a new €16 million facility designed specifically for passengers who are transferring from one flight to another.

Built adjacent to Pier 4 close to Terminal 2, the new transfer area will greatly enhance Dublin Airport’s ability to compete for transfer traffic between Europe and North America and improve the quality of the product available for transferring passengers.

The new building has the capacity to welcome four times more connecting passengers than currently being handled, according to Dublin Airport Managing Director Vincent Harrison.

“We have been growing Dublin Airport as a connecting gateway between Europe and North America steadily over the past five years and this new transfer facility will help us to further expand that business.” Mr Harrison said.

The number of passengers transferring at Dublin Airport has increased from 550,000 in 2013 to almost 1.6 million passengers last year, and connecting passenger numbers are up a further 17% this year.

“Growing this part of our business is hugely important in helping us to expand our route network at Dublin Airport, as these additional transfer passengers underpin the viability of a route and also encourage airlines to launch new services and add capacity on existing routes,” Mr Harrison added.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... r-facility

Fascinating to note the top 5 transatlantic connecting routes via DUB:
1. ORD-LHR
2. BOS-LHR
3. BOS-CDG
4. AMS-JFK
5. BOS-MAN

I wouldn't have thought such well-connected airports like LHR, CDG and AMS would be so high. I imagined the likes of "secondary" hubs like MXP, FCO, BUD, PRG etc. would have had the most demand. I'd be interested to know what proportion of BOS-SNN passengers connect through there onwards to LHR.


I'm not too surprised given that these are the routes EI has the most frequencies on so allow for relatively pain-free connections. Budapest leaves at 5:55am so not an option for all but the earliest inbounds(earliest in is JFK at 4:55am I believe? That'd be a tight connection with no alternate if you're late), MXP is at 6:20pm, and even FCO at 6:40am or 3:20pm wouldn't be great for most, either too short or too long. EI would have to seriously reconfigure flights in to banks to work to those(or most) secondary locations.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:48 pm

alancostello wrote:
AmricanShamrok wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Dublin Airport Opens New Transfer Facility

Dublin Airport has opened a new €16 million facility designed specifically for passengers who are transferring from one flight to another.

Built adjacent to Pier 4 close to Terminal 2, the new transfer area will greatly enhance Dublin Airport’s ability to compete for transfer traffic between Europe and North America and improve the quality of the product available for transferring passengers.

The new building has the capacity to welcome four times more connecting passengers than currently being handled, according to Dublin Airport Managing Director Vincent Harrison.

“We have been growing Dublin Airport as a connecting gateway between Europe and North America steadily over the past five years and this new transfer facility will help us to further expand that business.” Mr Harrison said.

The number of passengers transferring at Dublin Airport has increased from 550,000 in 2013 to almost 1.6 million passengers last year, and connecting passenger numbers are up a further 17% this year.

“Growing this part of our business is hugely important in helping us to expand our route network at Dublin Airport, as these additional transfer passengers underpin the viability of a route and also encourage airlines to launch new services and add capacity on existing routes,” Mr Harrison added.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... r-facility

Fascinating to note the top 5 transatlantic connecting routes via DUB:
1. ORD-LHR
2. BOS-LHR
3. BOS-CDG
4. AMS-JFK
5. BOS-MAN

I wouldn't have thought such well-connected airports like LHR, CDG and AMS would be so high. I imagined the likes of "secondary" hubs like MXP, FCO, BUD, PRG etc. would have had the most demand. I'd be interested to know what proportion of BOS-SNN passengers connect through there onwards to LHR.


I'm not too surprised given that these are the routes EI has the most frequencies on so allow for relatively pain-free connections. Budapest leaves at 5:55am so not an option for all but the earliest inbounds(earliest in is JFK at 4:55am I believe? That'd be a tight connection with no alternate if you're late), MXP is at 6:20pm, and even FCO at 6:40am or 3:20pm wouldn't be great for most, either too short or too long. EI would have to seriously reconfigure flights in to banks to work to those(or most) secondary locations.


USA-Europe current minimum connection is 50 minutes, this facility should reduce that to 30-40. BUD takes feed from BOS/JFK with the hour connection. If there are delays they have staff to take you through the airport and flights like FCO would be delayed within reasons because of the volume of transit.

OTP with T/A is very high so there usually isn't many missed connections.

LTenEleven wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
What does the the new transfer facility mean for one stop security country ("clean") travellers connecting through Dublin? Do they still have to clear security?


daa security no longer required for tier one counties and a quicker connection process overall.


Thanks. How are the tier one arriving passengers seperated from the rest?


Not sure but I'm sure there is a redirection route or they will use the old facility. Its more less just EY transit that would require a screening again but 99% can use this facility.
 
User avatar
AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2102
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:59 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
What does the the new transfer facility mean for one stop security country ("clean") travellers connecting through Dublin? Do they still have to clear security?


daa security no longer required for tier one counties and a quicker connection process overall.

What countries are tier one? Is there a list somewhere? Google isn't throwing out anything useful.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:13 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
What does the the new transfer facility mean for one stop security country ("clean") travellers connecting through Dublin? Do they still have to clear security?


daa security no longer required for tier one counties and a quicker connection process overall.

What countries are tier one? Is there a list somewhere? Google isn't throwing out anything useful.


Not 100% just a term I was told, but its where security screening is the same or above levels set in DUB or by the EU so most of Europe/US passengers will bypass security via auto pass lanes. It may be a US term.
Last edited by JAmie2k9 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:18 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
What does the the new transfer facility mean for one stop security country ("clean") travellers connecting through Dublin? Do they still have to clear security?


daa security no longer required for tier one counties and a quicker connection process overall.


Thanks. How are the tier one arriving passengers seperated from the rest?


Correction to my last post, the facility has a security screening area and bypass lanes for those who don't require security. When the plans were drawn up Aer Lingus said it should be smaller...
 
User avatar
alancostello
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:14 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
alancostello wrote:
AmricanShamrok wrote:
Fascinating to note the top 5 transatlantic connecting routes via DUB:
1. ORD-LHR
2. BOS-LHR
3. BOS-CDG
4. AMS-JFK
5. BOS-MAN

I wouldn't have thought such well-connected airports like LHR, CDG and AMS would be so high. I imagined the likes of "secondary" hubs like MXP, FCO, BUD, PRG etc. would have had the most demand. I'd be interested to know what proportion of BOS-SNN passengers connect through there onwards to LHR.


I'm not too surprised given that these are the routes EI has the most frequencies on so allow for relatively pain-free connections. Budapest leaves at 5:55am so not an option for all but the earliest inbounds(earliest in is JFK at 4:55am I believe? That'd be a tight connection with no alternate if you're late), MXP is at 6:20pm, and even FCO at 6:40am or 3:20pm wouldn't be great for most, either too short or too long. EI would have to seriously reconfigure flights in to banks to work to those(or most) secondary locations.


USA-Europe current minimum connection is 50 minutes, this facility should reduce that to 30-40. BUD takes feed from BOS/JFK with the hour connection. If there are delays they have staff to take you through the airport and flights like FCO would be delayed within reasons because of the volume of transit.

OTP with T/A is very high so there usually isn't many missed connections.


Minimum connection may be 50 mins, but the likelihood of most travellers taking a 50 or 60 minute connection is quite slim I would have thought? Even as an experienced traveller I prefer something closer to 90 minutes just for my own peace of mind.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 23813
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:30 pm

alancostello wrote:
Minimum connection may be 50 mins, but the likelihood of most travellers taking a 50 or 60 minute connection is quite slim I would have thought? Even as an experienced traveller I prefer something closer to 90 minutes just for my own peace of mind.


Totally agree. Anything under 90 mins at DUB is just stupid to give someone IMHO. The number of times I see people stressing on the flight when there is a delay and then annoying crew over connections is just not worth the risk.
 
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OA260
Posts: 23813
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:31 pm

alancostello wrote:
Minimum connection may be 50 mins, but the likelihood of most travellers taking a 50 or 60 minute connection is quite slim I would have thought? Even as an experienced traveller I prefer something closer to 90 minutes just for my own peace of mind.


Totally agree. Anything under 90 mins at DUB is just stupid to give someone IMHO. The number of times I see people stressing on the flight when there is a delay and then annoying crew over connections is just not worth the risk.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:06 pm

alancostello wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
alancostello wrote:

I'm not too surprised given that these are the routes EI has the most frequencies on so allow for relatively pain-free connections. Budapest leaves at 5:55am so not an option for all but the earliest inbounds(earliest in is JFK at 4:55am I believe? That'd be a tight connection with no alternate if you're late), MXP is at 6:20pm, and even FCO at 6:40am or 3:20pm wouldn't be great for most, either too short or too long. EI would have to seriously reconfigure flights in to banks to work to those(or most) secondary locations.


USA-Europe current minimum connection is 50 minutes, this facility should reduce that to 30-40. BUD takes feed from BOS/JFK with the hour connection. If there are delays they have staff to take you through the airport and flights like FCO would be delayed within reasons because of the volume of transit.

OTP with T/A is very high so there usually isn't many missed connections.


Minimum connection may be 50 mins, but the likelihood of most travellers taking a 50 or 60 minute connection is quite slim I would have thought? Even as an experienced traveller I prefer something closer to 90 minutes just for my own peace of mind.


Yeah I agree its tight and I wouldn't make such a tight connection but its not a high volume transfer route which is why it works for EI. If it was costing them money to re-route it would have been changed. They moved most US arrivals forward by 15-20 minutes this summer. If it was Rome where you could see 40% of traffic as transit it would be a disaster. The new facility will be a major benefit to those Pier 4 arrivals.
 
JAmie2k9
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:07 pm

OA260 wrote:
alancostello wrote:
Minimum connection may be 50 mins, but the likelihood of most travellers taking a 50 or 60 minute connection is quite slim I would have thought? Even as an experienced traveller I prefer something closer to 90 minutes just for my own peace of mind.


Totally agree. Anything under 90 mins at DUB is just stupid to give someone IMHO. The number of times I see people stressing on the flight when there is a delay and then annoying crew over connections is just not worth the risk.


The 50 minute is only inbound, flying to US is 75-80 minute cut off for obvious reasons. They plan to give gate information before you disembark in DUB in future (USA-Europe) and its not needed in the opposite direction.
 
KIRFlyer
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:42 pm

OA260 wrote:
Dublin Airport Opens New Transfer Facility

Dublin Airport has opened a new €16 million facility designed specifically for passengers who are transferring from one flight to another.

Built adjacent to Pier 4 close to Terminal 2, the new transfer area will greatly enhance Dublin Airport’s ability to compete for transfer traffic between Europe and North America and improve the quality of the product available for transferring passengers.

The new building has the capacity to welcome four times more connecting passengers than currently being handled, according to Dublin Airport Managing Director Vincent Harrison.

“We have been growing Dublin Airport as a connecting gateway between Europe and North America steadily over the past five years and this new transfer facility will help us to further expand that business.” Mr Harrison said.

The number of passengers transferring at Dublin Airport has increased from 550,000 in 2013 to almost 1.6 million passengers last year, and connecting passenger numbers are up a further 17% this year.

“Growing this part of our business is hugely important in helping us to expand our route network at Dublin Airport, as these additional transfer passengers underpin the viability of a route and also encourage airlines to launch new services and add capacity on existing routes,” Mr Harrison added.

http://www.dublinairport.com/latest-new ... r-facility


I have a good few questions about this. Hope someone can help:

Where exactly is this new facility relative to the "current/older" connections facility? Having a spot of bother trying to visualise it. Is Pier 4 just another name for Pier E? Where all the 400 gates are located.
Is this facility for EI connecting passengers only?
Can self connecting passengers use the facility?
What are it's opening hours?

I have had a massive bee in my bonnet about the current/old connections facility in Dublin Airport. You couldn't use it if you were connecting to a FR flight, or potentially other airlines. It was only "unoffically"used for connections to and from the US flights and closed at 3/4pm.
 
VFRonTop
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:02 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:50 pm

KIRFlyer wrote:
I have a good few questions about this. Hope someone can help:

Where exactly is this new facility relative to the "current/older" connections facility? Having a spot of bother trying to visualise it. Is Pier 4 just another name for Pier E? Where all the 400 gates are located.

Yes it's pier E that connects to T2
KIRFlyer wrote:
Is this facility for EI connecting passengers only?

No, not only for EI customers but will only be used by airlines with T2 operations
KIRFlyer wrote:
Can self connecting passengers use the facility?

Not officially but I expect (like today) if you hold a boarding pass for your next flight that's on a separate PNR you can probably use it (excluding FR, well until EI and FR get their interline agreement sorted out)
KIRFlyer wrote:
What are it's opening hours?

Don't know yet - hopefully will extend to last flight operations

KIRFlyer wrote:
I have had a massive bee in my bonnet about the current/old connections facility in Dublin Airport. You couldn't use it if you were connecting to a FR flight, or potentially other airlines. It was only "unoffically"used for connections to and from the US flights and closed at 3/4pm.

Agree - if Dublin is serious about being a hub it needs to develop and operate a real transfer service for all passengers.
 
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AmricanShamrok
Posts: 2102
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:05 pm

AA experiencing some chronic delays to Irish operations today - AA291 (DUB-JFK) departed an hour ago with a delay of 11 hours and AA88 (PHL-SNN) only arriving now some 12 hours late. Both aircraft are 752s.
 
Skyblue39
Posts: 411
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:34 am

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:10 pm

EI145 DUB-LAX op by EI-LAX has turned around off the Icelandic coast and heading back towards DUB.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 23813
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:21 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
AA experiencing some chronic delays to Irish operations today - AA291 (DUB-JFK) departed an hour ago with a delay of 11 hours and AA88 (PHL-SNN) only arriving now some 12 hours late. Both aircraft are 752s.


Good that the DUB-JFK pax will get EU compo but shame for the PHL-SNN lot that most likely wont.
 
mast2407
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:15 am

Re: Irish 8/18: An august institution

Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:40 pm

Seems there are delays across the board, EI109 is 5 hours behind. 2 and 3 hour delays earlier in the day.

EI 145 is approaching Dublin.

Edit: seems a technical issue on EI-LAX.
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