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AR385
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:29 am

One of the F/As remained on board the plane until she made sure no one was staying behind. She was the last to leave. Reminds me of The Costa Concordia,,,
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:42 am

Cebo29 wrote:
The fact that nobody died in this accident is a real miracle.......Praying did.......work!


Prayers didnt save lives...
 
KCaviator
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:02 pm

spacecadet wrote:
aa87 wrote:
Given everything already known, anyone think cause was something other than windshear ?


As I alluded to earlier, the cause these days is never just "windshear". Windshear is a known quantity; we understand it, we have instruments to detect it (if installed, but if not, then that's potentially the root cause). If a plane crashes due to windshear in 2018, then windshear is probably not the cause any more than square windows or unattended baggage would be. It's just not an unknown thing at this point; it's something that everybody in aviation understands. Lack of proper equipment to detect it, a decision to take off in known windshear conditions beyond the airplane's capabilities, a mechanical issue that coincidentally happened in windshear conditions, or other issues would be the root cause.

We'll see... clearly they were taking off in bad weather, but lots of planes take off in bad weather. Something caused *this* plane to crash. Whether they really shouldn't have been taking off (which would be the cause in itself) or something else happened coincidentally, we'll still have to see.


Someone understands the industry; well said!
 
D L X
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:01 pm

Engineering saved these lives. Now, if you want to say God gave these engineers the skill to create a plane that would withstand this punishment, I'd agree. But seriously, let's not turn a.net into the prayer hour when it's simple physics in control here.
 
D L X
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:07 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/aero ... ed-n896431
“It’s not a miracle,” he said. “This is a design-based accident that should be survivable. We’ve worked long and hard in the industry to ensure that an event like this is something that people can walk away from, that the seats don't slide forward on impact, that limbs are protected. The safety of passengers is no accident.”

He added: “The grassy area you see around an airport is not just wasteland, it is deliberately kept free of obstacles such as ditches or power lines. It is designed to allow a landing that people can walk away from.”
 
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AASAP777
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:19 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Cebo29 wrote:
The fact that nobody died in this accident is a real miracle.......Praying did.......work!


Prayers didnt save lives...



Neither does high tech stuff....when it's your day, it's your day.
Bendiga Dios la pródiga tierra en que nací....God bless the prodigal land where I was born.
H O N D U R A S! Five star country...Un país de cinco estrellas.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:50 pm

What do you mean? High tech saves lives day in and day out, say look at cars and how much safer today's cars are. Airplane accidents are fortunately very rare (partially due to that high tech) so there isn't as much direct events to observe. But even there high tech saves lifes.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:21 pm

AR385 wrote:
One of the F/As remained on board the plane until she made sure no one was staying behind. She was the last to leave. Reminds me of The Costa Concordia,,,

I hope you're not trying to insinuate that the pilots ran away in a cowardly fashion. Reports indicate that the cockpit did not fare well in this crash. The captain remains in hospital with serious neck injuries, and a risk of paraplegia. In fact, without the help of passengers, he might not have escaped at all.
 
AR385
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:19 pm

AR385 wrote:
The Captain is still in the hospital because even though the doctors were able to decompress the marrow. The doctors have warned him sternly that any movemennt of his neck will result in rendering him a paraplegic. The girl will be discharged soon, her injuries are not that severe. She has 1st. and 2nd degree burns in her legs.

The EMT who got him out said he was literally underneath what remained on the cockpit. He also mentioned that he kept asking "How many people did I killed" He oly stopped saying that until he was sedated in one of the hospitals.


aerolimani wrote:
[quote="AR385"

I hope you're not trying to insinuate that the pilots ran away in a cowardly fashion. Reports indicate that the cockpit did not fare well in this crash. The captain remains in hospital with serious neck injuries, and a risk of paraplegia. In fact, without the help of passengers, he might not have escaped at all.


Once again, A.net raises to the ocassion and one finds himself having to justify what one wrote. If you would haven the time to read the thread, you would have found the above. But nooooooo, you chose to accuse me of having an intention of writing something pretty ridiculous and offensive, frankly. You are esentially telling me I wrote some crap, in the likes of going all the way saying the captain left every one behind and left running towards safety (by the way, your info. is wrong, not only the part you dedicated to me) I wish next time you are going to accuse and insult someone of writing something so callous and cruel you at least read the thread beforehand. Or maybe you are someone who assumes the worst in every person and then pounces in without thinking. And, newsflash! I never insinuate. When I want to write something I write it. Period. I don´t go around finding ways of inserting passive-aggresive crap likw you say I do.

And people are asking why posts are down or why we don´t get the posts from the experts we used to get. anymore. It´s exactly because of this. Franky one thinks why bother? I really never get angry on forums, never in A.net. This is the first time some baseless accusation sets me off, Again, why bother posting?
 
trnswrld
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:46 pm

^^^^relax man. I don’t think his post was anywhere near like you make it out to be. He was in a way just ensuring that you didn’t mean anything against the captain who was likely near death under a rubble of cockpit debris. I’m pretty sure this is just a misunderstanding.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:16 pm

AR385 wrote:
Once again, A.net raises to the ocassion and one finds himself having to justify what one wrote. If you would haven the time to read the thread, you would have found the above. But nooooooo, you chose to accuse me of having an intention of writing something pretty ridiculous and offensive, frankly. You are esentially telling me I wrote some crap, in the likes of going all the way saying the captain left every one behind and left running towards safety (by the way, your info. is wrong, not only the part you dedicated to me) I wish next time you are going to accuse and insult someone of writing something so callous and cruel you at least read the thread beforehand. Or maybe you are someone who assumes the worst in every person and then pounces in without thinking. And, newsflash! I never insinuate. When I want to write something I write it. Period. I don´t go around finding ways of inserting passive-aggresive crap likw you say I do.

And people are asking why posts are down or why we don´t get the posts from the experts we used to get. anymore. It´s exactly because of this. Franky one thinks why bother? I really never get angry on forums, never in A.net. This is the first time some baseless accusation sets me off, Again, why bother posting?


trnswrld wrote:
^^^^relax man. I don’t think his post was anywhere near like you make it out to be. He was in a way just ensuring that you didn’t mean anything against the captain who was likely near death under a rubble of cockpit debris. I’m pretty sure this is just a misunderstanding.


Indeed. I was just trying to understand what you meant. When I think of the Costa Concordia incident, I can only think how pathetic and cowardly was the behaviour of Francesco Schettino. I am still curious to know what you meant.

As to reading the whole thread, you'll just have to excuse me for not remembering it was you (AR385) who wrote about the captain's condition.
 
atsiang
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:17 pm

D L X wrote:
Engineering saved these lives. Now, if you want to say God gave these engineers the skill to create a plane that would withstand this punishment, I'd agree. But seriously, let's not turn a.net into the prayer hour when it's simple physics in control here.


There are a lot of things in life that cannot be explained merely by “physics”. It is a miracle that there was no fatalities. When things go wrong, God is blamed but things go well, God is never acknowledged...
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:23 pm

atsiang wrote:
D L X wrote:
Engineering saved these lives. Now, if you want to say God gave these engineers the skill to create a plane that would withstand this punishment, I'd agree. But seriously, let's not turn a.net into the prayer hour when it's simple physics in control here.


There are a lot of things in life that cannot be explained merely by “physics”. It is a miracle that there was no fatalities. When things go wrong, God is blamed but things go well, God is never acknowledged...

Clearly, you've never watched post-game interviews with American sports players.
 
Alphazone
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Re: AeroMexico AC Down 7/31/2018

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:41 pm

reffado wrote:
Brazilian media reporting E190 aircraft, XA-GAL. Terrible.

Damn, I saw this aircraft in DTW on April 26, 2018.
N664US The Spirit of Beijing
N670US World Plane - 50 Years Bridging the Pacific / The Alliance Spirit
N671US City of Detroit
N673US City of Tokyo
N674US City of Shanghai
N675NW Spirit of the Northwest People
 
cat3appr50
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:03 pm

After a review of the NTSB Final Report for the Pan Am Flight 759 B727 200 accident at KMSY July 9, 1982, although quite a while ago, but seems could be similarities.

IIRC MMDO doesn’t have a LLWAS system.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:30 pm

Man,I miss people like Mandala499 and Pihero. They used to bring in some insightful analysis regarding the circumstances of such incidents and accidents.
 
D L X
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:13 am

atsiang wrote:
D L X wrote:
Engineering saved these lives. Now, if you want to say God gave these engineers the skill to create a plane that would withstand this punishment, I'd agree. But seriously, let's not turn a.net into the prayer hour when it's simple physics in control here.


There are a lot of things in life that cannot be explained merely by “physics”. It is a miracle that there was no fatalities. When things go wrong, God is blamed but things go well, God is never acknowledged...

Seriously dude.

Next time you’re in trouble, you better pray for an engineer.
 
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oceancrosser
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:18 am

There is no low level wind shear alert system at MMDO, there is no terminal doppler weather radar, ground based weather radar or even normal-advanced weather observation equipment. Weather observations at most Mexico airports are taken from observers, there is limited or no automated equipment and frequently the weather observer has other duties. The weather observations from the airport show that a thunderstorm was near the airport boundary, although additional convection was likely also nearby.

SA 31/07/2018 22:48->
METAR MMDO 312248Z 15006KT 10SM BKN020CB OVC200 24/11 A3020
RMK 8/903 TS PCPN E BINOVC=
SA 31/07/2018 21:50->
METAR MMDO 312150Z 12007KT 10SM BKN020CB BKN025 OVC200 22/14
A3023 RMK 8/903 BINOVC=
SA 31/07/2018 21:45->
METAR MMDO NIL=
SA 31/07/2018 21:03->
METAR MMDO 312103Z RTD 28007KT 7SM OVC015CB 17/14 A3024 RMK
SLP118 57014 956 8/9// PISTA CERRADA POR ACFT
ACCIDENTADA BINOVC=
SA 31/07/2018 20:59->
METAR MMDO 312059Z NIL=
SA 31/07/2018 20:18->
METAR MMDO 312018Z 07003KT 7SM TSRA BKN020CB 20/13 A3023
RMK 8/900 TSRAB13=

With such a lack of technology, it's *possible* that there was no advance warning if a microburst did prevent the aircraft from departing. The aircraft weather radar is quite limited on the ground and would not show a gust front or microburst (aircraft radar only shows "wet" precipitation).

Also, the density altitude at takeoff was approximately 8,000 feet. Even slight changes in tailwind component would significantly lengthen takeoff roll and increase groundspeed at VR substantially. A typical VR speed (indicated) for a E190 is ~135 knots. At 8,000 density altitude the ground speed would be ~152 knots. With a 15 knot tailwind (hypothetically), you are looking at a ground speed of ~177 knots, and that is just to get off the ground.

Remaining runway is eaten up very quickly at high density altitude airports with tailwinds.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:17 am

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
If this was the result of a microburst or thunderstorm induced windshear, the question will be why did the pilots decide to take off in such weather? When there is weather in the area, pilots usually take a look at their onboard radar before taking off. Did the crew do that and if so what did they see? Was this storm one that didnt look so bad when they started the takeoff roll and intensified as they rolled down the runway?

Also, what pressure were the pilots under? Is there a culture at this airline of braving bad weather instead of being conservative and waiting it out?



If you look at the end of the video, you can see the storm in the distance. I cant imagine the crew didn't see what was at the end of the runway before making the decision to takeoff. If the crash is found to be a microburst, I think half the blame goes to the crew, and the other half goes to those in the tower. I just dont get why we have planes taking off in a thunderstorm!! We have witnessed so many crashes related to this stuff.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:18 am

Erebus wrote:
Man,I miss people like Mandala499 and Pihero. They used to bring in some insightful analysis regarding the circumstances of such incidents and accidents.


Where did they go? :(
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:57 am

Mandala499 Pihero Captain Barney etc, and countless other great contributors of knowledge and information left due to rude and ignorant armchair aviation judges.

Best regards
TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
pugman211
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:42 am

TheRedBaron wrote:
Mandala499 Pihero Captain Barney etc, and countless other great contributors of knowledge and information left due to rude and ignorant armchair aviation judges.

Best regards
TRB



And KarelXWB too?
 
Wacker1000
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:09 am

D L X wrote:
Engineering saved these lives.


Indeed - good thing the engineers at Fokker and MD had designs worth borrowing. ;)
 
trnswrld
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:52 pm

TheRedBaron wrote:
Mandala499 Pihero Captain Barney etc, and countless other great contributors of knowledge and information left due to rude and ignorant armchair aviation judges.

Best regards
TRB



Ehh that's their loss. This is the internet, you cant really expect the highest quality members and posts all the time. I agree, some of the stuff is annoying, but who cares, when is there not some sort of crap on the internet? The site is still good enough to visit and contribute to.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:25 pm

trnswrld wrote:
TheRedBaron wrote:
Mandala499 Pihero Captain Barney etc, and countless other great contributors of knowledge and information left due to rude and ignorant armchair aviation judges.

Best regards
TRB



Ehh that's their loss. This is the internet, you cant really expect the highest quality members and posts all the time. I agree, some of the stuff is annoying, but who cares, when is there not some sort of crap on the internet? The site is still good enough to visit and contribute to.


I agree about the Internet, but some of the stuff hurled their way was so thankless and provocative that at some point you ask yourself “Why bother?” That’s not something I would label “their loss” - I’m sure they have plenty of people to interact with on a more intelligent level. It does, however, offer a new crop of folks to rise up and fill those shoes.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:01 pm

In regards to some of the posts here regarding lives saved because of technology and engineering and how there have been other similar accidents long ago in much older aircraft that resulted the same with all surviving. So my post here has nothing to do with praying, I don't go there on the internet, but just how much do you guys think is the result of engineering over say just good old luck? I mean lets face it, had the aircraft not had a clear pathway to slow down on and it collided with a structure or significant terrain there would have been fatalities.
So just how many differences could there possibly be between lets say a 727 where all survived and this much newer E190? Both are rigid aluminum structures with seats attached to aluminum rails. I understand they cannot put the kind of safety items in aircraft that they do cars for weight and space reasons to name a couple, but what technology do newer modern aircraft have that was engineered for passenger safety that a 727 for example doesn't? BTW I am not saying that technology and engineering didn't have anything to do with everyone surviving, but I can say it sounds like the LACK of technology certainly did with little to no weather detection as far as the airport goes. Human judgement, and what the pilots saw or info they had available is to be determined.
 
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TheRedBaron
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:47 pm

I agree that this accident had a lot of luck, and a lot of things conspired to make it happen, and a lot also to allow everyone to survive. Ill wait for the report, because quite frankly a lot of the experts here on crash investigation and aircraft knowledge are gone, and the ones who post useful information are put in doubt. I don't post as often as before and I have more info on this crash, since I am quite familiar with 2 E-190 Pilots for AM. Why I don't do it? just read previous posts... after a while it gets boring and you do other stuff. I don't Know if KarelXBW is gone but he put the most amazing photos... sad if that is the case
have a great day!
Best regards
TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:52 pm

trnswrld wrote:
In regards to some of the posts here regarding lives saved because of technology and engineering and how there have been other similar accidents long ago in much older aircraft that resulted the same with all surviving. So my post here has nothing to do with praying, I don't go there on the internet, but just how much do you guys think is the result of engineering over say just good old luck? I mean lets face it, had the aircraft not had a clear pathway to slow down on and it collided with a structure or significant terrain there would have been fatalities.
So just how many differences could there possibly be between lets say a 727 where all survived and this much newer E190? Both are rigid aluminum structures with seats attached to aluminum rails. I understand they cannot put the kind of safety items in aircraft that they do cars for weight and space reasons to name a couple, but what technology do newer modern aircraft have that was engineered for passenger safety that a 727 for example doesn't? BTW I am not saying that technology and engineering didn't have anything to do with everyone surviving, but I can say it sounds like the LACK of technology certainly did with little to no weather detection as far as the airport goes. Human judgement, and what the pilots saw or info they had available is to be determined.


One thing I can say for sure: airports are designed to have the long and wide area at runway ends. Only dated airports are without. This is true because in the past there had been cases where the missing safety area had resulted in fatalities.

Since we do not have the full information yet, I cannot rule ouy there was some luck but definitevily modern design of the aircraft and proper runway were determinant factors.
I am know intrested to know whether the crew was responsible or not.
 
trnswrld
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:15 pm

vahancrazy wrote:
Since we do not have the full information yet, I cannot rule ouy there was some luck but definitevily modern design of the aircraft and proper runway were determinant factors.
I am know intrested to know whether the crew was responsible or not.


So that’s my point exactly.....what modern design of the aircraft is it that you speak of that was definitely a determining factor in these people surviving, that say a 30+ year old Boeing would not have?
Again, I am not being sarcastic in anyway. I am truly curious to see what changes over the years have been made to aircraft that give humans a better chance of survival? Other external factors I can see such as designing an airport with plenty of clear room beyond the runways and to me THAT is one I can say definitely was a determining factor in this case, not necessarily aircraft design.

Thanks for the information.
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:51 pm

trnswrld wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
Since we do not have the full information yet, I cannot rule ouy there was some luck but definitevily modern design of the aircraft and proper runway were determinant factors.
I am know intrested to know whether the crew was responsible or not.


So that’s my point exactly.....what modern design of the aircraft is it that you speak of that was definitely a determining factor in these people surviving, that say a 30+ year old Boeing would not have?
Again, I am not being sarcastic in anyway. I am truly curious to see what changes over the years have been made to aircraft that give humans a better chance of survival? Other external factors I can see such as designing an airport with plenty of clear room beyond the runways and to me THAT is one I can say definitely was a determining factor in this case, not necessarily aircraft design.

Thanks for the information.


I cannot recall the event but until early jets the seat rows were bolted such that the high energetico movement of a row could "pull" the rail and stress the joints of the row behind which subsequently would jumping forward and crush on the row in front and killing / hurting passengers in at least two rows.

The insulation material used between the external side and the cabin since before Swissair MD-11 it was not inflammable one like after that event. That means in later event (such current case), the people had extra time to evacuate.

This 2 are the first examples of airplane design safety improvements which it seems to me can easily have helped current case.
 
luv2cattlecall
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:14 pm

trnswrld wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
Since we do not have the full information yet, I cannot rule ouy there was some luck but definitevily modern design of the aircraft and proper runway were determinant factors.
I am know intrested to know whether the crew was responsible or not.


So that’s my point exactly.....what modern design of the aircraft is it that you speak of that was definitely a determining factor in these people surviving, that say a 30+ year old Boeing would not have?
Again, I am not being sarcastic in anyway. I am truly curious to see what changes over the years have been made to aircraft that give humans a better chance of survival? Other external factors I can see such as designing an airport with plenty of clear room beyond the runways and to me THAT is one I can say definitely was a determining factor in this case, not necessarily aircraft design.

Thanks for the information.



Some thoughts:
Exit placement requirements

16g capable seats (isn't this one of the reasons Boeing doesn't want to have to get a new type certificate for the 737, because they would have to beef up a bit of the frame and rails?)

Flammability of materials/less toxic smoke soon after impact

(Not applicable to the E190:) Fuel tank inerting systems

Braces, fasteners, brackets, etc designed with more modern technology

Carbon fiber in key areas? Titanium?

Fault tolerant control surfaces which may have allowed better control in the critical last few seconds

Better doors?

Decades of incremental improvements due to learning from experience and incidents, and new regulations as well
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:28 am

luv2cattlecall wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
Since we do not have the full information yet, I cannot rule ouy there was some luck but definitevily modern design of the aircraft and proper runway were determinant factors.
I am know intrested to know whether the crew was responsible or not.


So that’s my point exactly.....what modern design of the aircraft is it that you speak of that was definitely a determining factor in these people surviving, that say a 30+ year old Boeing would not have?
Again, I am not being sarcastic in anyway. I am truly curious to see what changes over the years have been made to aircraft that give humans a better chance of survival? Other external factors I can see such as designing an airport with plenty of clear room beyond the runways and to me THAT is one I can say definitely was a determining factor in this case, not necessarily aircraft design.

Thanks for the information.


16g capable seats (isn't this one of the reasons Boeing doesn't want to have to get a new type certificate for the 737, because they would have to beef up a bit of the frame and rails?)


Nice try, but 737's have had 16g seats for I'd guess 15+ years.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:20 am

AirlineCritic wrote:
What do you mean? High tech saves lives day in and day out, say look at cars and how much safer today's cars are. Airplane accidents are fortunately very rare (partially due to that high tech) so there isn't as much direct events to observe. But even there high tech saves lifes.


Makes me wonder if the results would have been different had this been a pre-1988 aircraft like the 757 or 763..
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
sccutler
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:46 am

Microbursts develop in seconds - hence the name - and I have a difficult time believing that the cockpit crew saw that on the runway when they started the takeoff roll.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
D L X
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:34 am

sccutler wrote:
Microbursts develop in seconds - hence the name - and I have a difficult time believing that the cockpit crew saw that on the runway when they started the takeoff roll.

Yes, but you can see it out the passenger window before rotation. I don’t know if they could have stopped at that point though.

Here’s my theory: they didn’t really “rotate.” As they hit the microburst, the dramatic increase in wind speed lifted the plane off the ground below Vr. Then they were in the downdraft and the plane’s indicated airspeed dropped, the microburst pushed them down, and they hit the runway, all below the airspeed they intended to rotate at.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:18 am

So.... Have we answered the question of whether this is a Boeing crash or not? My thoughts go with the survivors and captain as they try and recover in the hospital.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:36 am

Super80Fan wrote:
So.... Have we answered the question of whether this is a Boeing crash or not? My thoughts go with the survivors and captain as they try and recover in the hospital.


Omg.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1375
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:58 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
1989worstyear wrote:
AirlineCritic wrote:
What do you mean? High tech saves lives day in and day out, say look at cars and how much safer today's cars are. Airplane accidents are fortunately very rare (partially due to that high tech) so there isn't as much direct events to observe. But even there high tech saves lifes.


Makes me wonder if the results would have been different had this been a pre-1988 aircraft like the 757 or 763..


Well we already discussed similar accidents one of which involved a much older 727 and all survived. There are way too many factors though to really say one way or the other. As for larger aircraft like a 757 or 763... that’s anyones guess, but all being equal I would guess similar outcome. Although a 763 has much larger wings which could possibly cause a wing to hit the ground easier potentially flipping the airplane.
The Asiana 777 crash in SFO took a huge beating with the entire tail breaking off and the plane even flipped around airborne almost 180 degrees and all survived the initial event.
 
trnswrld
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Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:02 pm

sccutler wrote:
Microbursts develop in seconds - hence the name - and I have a difficult time believing that the cockpit crew saw that on the runway when they started the takeoff roll.


I see what you’re saying, but at the start of the takeoff roll it was practically dry, then eventually into what looked like a tropical storm. They had to see that going on down at the other end no? Now if they started the roll in poor conditions then I would agree seeing worse conditions through already poor would be difficult. It’s all gonna be part of the investigation.
 
Venatt
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:56 pm

AirlineCritic wrote:
What do you mean? High tech saves lives day in and day out, say look at cars and how much safer today's cars are. Airplane accidents are fortunately very rare (partially due to that high tech) so there isn't as much direct events to observe. But even there high tech saves lifes.


.
 
Venatt
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:58 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:37 am

Flight Attendants of Fligth AM2431 are met with applause in Mexico City:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBxu-tVDDU4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHFhbC-Xenc
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:36 am

AR385 wrote:
One of the F/As remained on board the plane until she made sure no one was staying behind. She was the last to leave. Reminds me of The Costa Concordia,,,


Although I don't know the FO's status, the captain was seriously injured, can you expect him to inspect the cabin to ensure that everyone has gone?
May be the F/A knew captain was unable to do so so that she decided to perform such checks.

Appreciate the F/A for what she has done, but it is not fair to blame the captain and link with the captain's of Costa Concordia.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:32 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
AR385 wrote:
One of the F/As remained on board the plane until she made sure no one was staying behind. She was the last to leave. Reminds me of The Costa Concordia,,,


Although I don't know the FO's status, the captain was seriously injured, can you expect him to inspect the cabin to ensure that everyone has gone?
May be the F/A knew captain was unable to do so so that she decided to perform such checks.

Appreciate the F/A for what she has done, but it is not fair to blame the captain and link with the captain's of Costa Concordia.

Thank you, hongkongflyer, for also not understanding what AR385 is trying to say. AR385 got all upset because I questioned what he/she was trying to say with their Costa Concordia comment. So, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is confused.
 
rvA340
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:18 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:33 pm

For some reason.. this accident reminds me of Spanair 5022 and LAPA 3142 accidents.. couldnt this AM accident be the same scenario or cause.. pilot error? After all.. how many planes land and take off during extreme weather everyday? Personally I dont think in this case, weather is to blame...
 
Gatorman96
Posts: 841
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Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:46 pm

aerolimani wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
AR385 wrote:
One of the F/As remained on board the plane until she made sure no one was staying behind. She was the last to leave. Reminds me of The Costa Concordia,,,


Although I don't know the FO's status, the captain was seriously injured, can you expect him to inspect the cabin to ensure that everyone has gone?
May be the F/A knew captain was unable to do so so that she decided to perform such checks.

Appreciate the F/A for what she has done, but it is not fair to blame the captain and link with the captain's of Costa Concordia.

Thank you, hongkongflyer, for also not understanding what AR385 is trying to say. AR385 got all upset because I questioned what he/she was trying to say with their Costa Concordia comment. So, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is confused.

Furthermore, the pilot was apparently pinned under parts of the crushed cockpit and had to be removed by passengers who had escaped.

rvA340 wrote:
For some reason.. this accident reminds me of Spanair 5022 and LAPA 3142 accidents.. couldnt this AM accident be the same scenario or cause.. pilot error? After all.. how many planes land and take off during extreme weather everyday? Personally I dont think in this case, weather is to blame...

Both of these accidents were related to aircraft not appropriately configured for takeoff, i.e. flaps were not deployed. I think we'll find that this AM accident and the two you mentioned are completely unrelated.
 
rvA340
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:18 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:19 pm

rvA340 wrote:
For some reason.. this accident reminds me of Spanair 5022 and LAPA 3142 accidents.. couldnt this AM accident be the same scenario or cause.. pilot error? After all.. how many planes land and take off during extreme weather everyday? Personally I dont think in this case, weather is to blame...

Both of these accidents were related to aircraft not appropriately configured for takeoff, i.e. flaps were not deployed. I think we'll find that this AM accident and the two you mentioned are completely unrelated.[/quote]

Why you are so sure? For me, 3 of these accidents seem very similar on the path the aircraft followed.. check the videos taken from AM inside.. seemed that the aircraft did took off but couldnt keep climbing..same or similar case with both LAPA and Spanair
 
AR385
Posts: 6935
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:43 pm

One of Aeromexico´s landings. This one is a ERJ-145


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh6Bc6j ... ture=share
 
dcajet
Posts: 4654
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:17 pm

AR385 wrote:
One of Aeromexico´s landings. This one is a ERJ-145


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh6Bc6j ... ture=share


Perhaps I am missing something, but how is this relevant to the discussion?
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
AR385
Posts: 6935
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:10 am

dcajet wrote:
AR385 wrote:
One of Aeromexico´s landings. This one is a ERJ-145


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh6Bc6j ... ture=share

Perhaps I am missing something, but how is this relevant to the discussion?


It is important to the discussion because AM assigns their regional jets to crews that are young and without much experience. Many of my friends who are pilots are baffled by the decision of the pilots to take off in the recent accident. When I questioned him about what that meant. He sent me that video, and I thought I´d share it.

However if you feel it adds nothing to the discussion, and a waste of banwdithd you are welcome to suggest deletions .

It is a serious problem because simpy put, there are no pilots in the country to crew the expected growth of the industry in the coming years. He is worried about that.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4654
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Aeroméxico E190 Accident in Durango July 31

Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:24 am

AR385 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
AR385 wrote:
One of Aeromexico´s landings. This one is a ERJ-145


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh6Bc6j ... ture=share

Perhaps I am missing something, but how is this relevant to the discussion?


It is important to the discussion because AM assigns their regional jets to crews that are young and without much experience. Many of my friends who are pilots are baffled by the decision of the pilots to take off in the recent accident. When I questioned him about what that meant. He sent me that video, and I thought I´d share it.

However if you feel it adds nothing to the discussion, and a waste of banwdithd you are welcome to suggest deletions .

It is a serious problem because simpy put, there are no pilots in the country to crew the expected growth of the industry in the coming years. He is worried about that.


Easy... easy. I just asked you a question as I was not sure why you had posted it. I have better things to do than going about suggesting deletions! And you are very much entitled to your POV on the topic.

Moving on, check today's WSJ. It has a good article on the shortage of pilots in the coming years - not just in the US.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pilot-shor ... 1533720602
Keep calm and wash your hands.

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