Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Bluebird191
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:25 am

Obzerva wrote:
I agree. I don’t think the extended range a321 is going to be the game changer in the ANZ market that people think it’s going to be.

It will enable DPS to go single aisle, thus removing the need for an expensive wide body on the route from the east coast. But what else will it enable? All thIt might not be for Australian airlines, but it could be an Indonesian airline flying secondary cities to Australia, even at a few days a week.

10 years ago who knew the number of Chinese airlines flying secondary cities to Australia would be this expansive, even if there's a level of subsidy involved in some of the routes.

The prospect of a narrowbody to SYD/MEL from Surabaya, Medan or Lombok could be there.


Do I smell an opportunity for another foray for Jetstar into the Asian market? Jetstar Indonesia? Utilise the lower cost base vs the Australian “parent company” for all flights from DPS to Australia, which in turn could allow the 787’s to be deployed elsewhere, say more OOL or CNS to Japan, or to either their subsidiaries in Asia. Then throw in some other routes to elsewhere in Asia from DPS, CGK and elsewhere.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:13 pm

Bluebird191 wrote:
Do I smell an opportunity for another foray for Jetstar into the Asian market? Jetstar Indonesia? Utilise the lower cost base vs the Australian “parent company” for all flights from DPS to Australia, which in turn could allow the 787’s to be deployed elsewhere ...

I doubt it - with foreign ownership and control restrictions, the QF Group / JQ would not actually own or control this 'JQ Indonesia,' meaning that they'd be surrendering a a portion of their DPS - Australia profits to an Indonesian partner. This could be worth it, if the opportunity to expand ex-Indonesia into Asia was great (like it was for the Japan and Singapore partnerships) and/or it was free from excessive competition (like it arguably was for the Vietnam partnership), but IMO, neither of these are applicable here. In particular, JT and QZ already have most of the Indonesian market covered. Maybe I'm wrong on this though, and a local licensee will be launched.

Cheers,

C.
 
moa999
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:51 pm

Jetstar Sing, Vietnam, Japan were first mover (although they've lost advantage in Vietnam to VietJet and Singapore to Scoot (+Tiger).

Way too far behind to start now in Indonesia (or Malaysia, Thailand) etc
 
brucetiki
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:53 pm

ArtV wrote:
Don't forget that Adelaide built a brand new international and domestic terminal (with swing gates for the international services) in 2005 - which although didn't require new runways, everything else was new. The old international terminal "shed" was replaced, and the old domestic terminal was abandoned at the other side of the airport. Prior to this, there was (from memory) 1 international airbridge at the old international terminal, but there were no airbridges for the domestic terminal - it was all walking across the tarmac.


Spot on about the old ADL set up. The old international terminal was used by Rex up until earlier this year because of the long walk from gate 10 (where they fly out of at ADL) to the luggage carousels. Rex now bus their passengers to the luggage carousels (due to the passengers not being screened) with the old international terminal bulldozed earlier this year for the upcoming expansion.

The old domestic terminal was bulldozed shortly after domestic operations moved to the current terminal in 2006.

When the current ADL terminal opened, it was a few weeks before I was due to fly to MEL with a mate, and at the open day was rubbing it in to my mates about how I'll be one of the first people to use the new terminal. Then the delays hit and I got my only departure (and arrival) into the old domestic terminal.
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
brucetiki
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:20 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Air Asia complaining they want to restart ADL, but airport charges are too high and they want a deal...

IMO, an ADL incentive would be more likely for a new market, like Japan or the US. I can't see ADL doing a deal with D7 - MH already flies ADL - KUL, and it would only trigger MH and other Asian carriers to seek incentives too, with threats of dropping ADL if demands aren't met.

Separately, I wonder if the QF Group would ever re-start ADL - SIN, to connect to SIN - LHR, as well as 3K's SIN hub? A 321NEO could do it (on JQ), but for QF metal, a 330 would be needed, and I don't think there are many of those spare. Perhaps EK could add an ADL - SIN sector?

Cheers,

C.


From memory, Qantas used an A340 for their old ADL-SIN routes. How long did QF have the A340's for?
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
utaussiefan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:26 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:59 pm

brucetiki wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Air Asia complaining they want to restart ADL, but airport charges are too high and they want a deal...

IMO, an ADL incentive would be more likely for a new market, like Japan or the US. I can't see ADL doing a deal with D7 - MH already flies ADL - KUL, and it would only trigger MH and other Asian carriers to seek incentives too, with threats of dropping ADL if demands aren't met.

Separately, I wonder if the QF Group would ever re-start ADL - SIN, to connect to SIN - LHR, as well as 3K's SIN hub? A 321NEO could do it (on JQ), but for QF metal, a 330 would be needed, and I don't think there are many of those spare. Perhaps EK could add an ADL - SIN sector?

Cheers,

C.


From memory, Qantas used an A340 for their old ADL-SIN routes. How long did QF have the A340's for?

Qantas have never had the A340, ADL-SIN was an A330 or 767 and it ran via SYD in a triangle route. ADL-SYD-SIN-ADL.
 
brucetiki
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:11 pm

utaussiefan wrote:
brucetiki wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
IMO, an ADL incentive would be more likely for a new market, like Japan or the US. I can't see ADL doing a deal with D7 - MH already flies ADL - KUL, and it would only trigger MH and other Asian carriers to seek incentives too, with threats of dropping ADL if demands aren't met.

Separately, I wonder if the QF Group would ever re-start ADL - SIN, to connect to SIN - LHR, as well as 3K's SIN hub? A 321NEO could do it (on JQ), but for QF metal, a 330 would be needed, and I don't think there are many of those spare. Perhaps EK could add an ADL - SIN sector?

Cheers,

C.


From memory, Qantas used an A340 for their old ADL-SIN routes. How long did QF have the A340's for?

Qantas have never had the A340, ADL-SIN was an A330 or 767 and it ran via SYD in a triangle route. ADL-SYD-SIN-ADL.


I swear they had a 4 engined, single level aircraft in the mid-2000's. I recall seeing a relative off from ADL in 2006, and was pretty sure that it was an A340 - either that or I was seeing things at the time :D
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
sq256
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:35 pm

May have been CX’s old A340s on the old MEL-ADL-HKG-MEL triangular route? (ADL now has its own standalone CX flights to HKG, and the A340s have long gone).
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2619
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:01 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
There’s a lot of talk about Luxon making demands of VA to shut down its international division and put traffic onto NZ, but is there any substance to this? Or is it perhaps just an A-Net rumour, like so many others, that has become almost fact by repetition? Just curious . . .


We honestly don't know because none of us were in the board meetings. It does make sense though. With only a small population base, NZ relies heavily on AU originating traffic for its trans-Pacific volumes. It would've galled Luxon when he saw that VA's Pacific services weren't particularly profitable at the same time as they were taking the significant Velocity base away from using NZ services.

Having said that, the idea that removing VA from Pacific services would've been a boon for NZ seems a bit naive unless NZ were planning to re-enter direct services to US from AU. Most people would take a direct service from AU to US so, if anything, VA's exit would've been a bigger help to QF and UA. NZ's competitiveness of AU-US services is basically price-driven. A one-stop service on a so-so product no better than anyone else's means price is your only weapon.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
smartplane
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:06 pm

Delaying 747 retirement to 2020 and beyond, ensures QF will meet currently proposed CORSIA targets, assuming status quo in all other respects.

Margin of compliance can be engineered by achieving lower load factors in the base year, for by example raising prices or replacing 787's temporarily on skinny routes with A380's and 747's.

CORSIA may be stumbling globally (may change with an imminent announcement), but it appears very likely the EU and UK will meet the deadlines, introducing a range of new costs, rather than carbon offsetting, to airlines which use older aircraft, and / or achieve low load factors.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11410
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:46 pm

Philippine Airlines will operate A359 in selected flight to SYD and MEL in December and January

https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 18880?s=21
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11410
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:18 am

June BITRE Domestic results are now available

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... n_2018.pdf

RPT flights for June up 0.5%
RPT flights for the year up 2.5%
RPK's up 0.7%
ASK's down 0.8%
Load factors up 1.2% to 78.6%
SYD-MEL up 0.6%

Biggest increases
HTI-SYD up 20.9%
MEL-MCY up 12.4%
ADL-PER up 11.6%
HBA-SYD up 11%

Biggest decreases
BNE-PPP down 11.7%
SYD-ARM down 9.1%
SYD-TMW down 8.8%
BNE-CNS down 7.8%

PER-BME saw a modest passenger increase of 4.2%
Forum Moderator
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:35 am

brucetiki wrote:
utaussiefan wrote:
brucetiki wrote:

From memory, Qantas used an A340 for their old ADL-SIN routes. How long did QF have the A340's for?

Qantas have never had the A340, ADL-SIN was an A330 or 767 and it ran via SYD in a triangle route. ADL-SYD-SIN-ADL.


I swear they had a 4 engined, single level aircraft in the mid-2000's. I recall seeing a relative off from ADL in 2006, and was pretty sure that it was an A340 - either that or I was seeing things at the time :D


They operated BAe-146s, but definitely not to Singapore.
 
brucetiki
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:30 am

dredgy wrote:
brucetiki wrote:
utaussiefan wrote:
Qantas have never had the A340, ADL-SIN was an A330 or 767 and it ran via SYD in a triangle route. ADL-SYD-SIN-ADL.


I swear they had a 4 engined, single level aircraft in the mid-2000's. I recall seeing a relative off from ADL in 2006, and was pretty sure that it was an A340 - either that or I was seeing things at the time :D


They operated BAe-146s, but definitely not to Singapore.


That would be somewhat hilarious to see :D
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
oskarclare
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:37 am

Air Niugini ending flights to TSV from 1 OCT 18. SYD being reduced to 2x weekly from 3x weekly. This is due to IASC knocking back PX/QF codeshare. BNE and CNS not affected.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... ownsville/
 
dredgy
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:12 am

oskarclare wrote:
Air Niugini ending flights to TSV from 1 OCT 18. SYD being reduced to 2x weekly from 3x weekly. This is due to IASC knocking back PX/QF codeshare. BNE and CNS not affected.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... ownsville/


Unfortunate about the codeshare decision. Really just hurts Air Niugini for little reason.
 
ArtV
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:12 am

utaussiefan wrote:
brucetiki wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
IMO, an ADL incentive would be more likely for a new market, like Japan or the US. I can't see ADL doing a deal with D7 - MH already flies ADL - KUL, and it would only trigger MH and other Asian carriers to seek incentives too, with threats of dropping ADL if demands aren't met.

Separately, I wonder if the QF Group would ever re-start ADL - SIN, to connect to SIN - LHR, as well as 3K's SIN hub? A 321NEO could do it (on JQ), but for QF metal, a 330 would be needed, and I don't think there are many of those spare. Perhaps EK could add an ADL - SIN sector?

Cheers,

C.


From memory, Qantas used an A340 for their old ADL-SIN routes. How long did QF have the A340's for?

Qantas have never had the A340, ADL-SIN was an A330 or 767 and it ran via SYD in a triangle route. ADL-SYD-SIN-ADL.


The route was, before it was ended, SYD-ADL-SIN-ADL-SYD - I can't recall it ever being a triangle though (unless there was a MEL triangle the other way for the SIN-ADL). I had flown on the A330 both directors ADL-SIN and SIN-ADL before it was ceased.
 
log0008
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:23 am

Melbourne Airport July Stats:

https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/Cor ... -July-2018

International: 1,000,120 +7.4%
Domestic: 2,285,400 +1.6%

The airport also hit a new ‘busiest day’ in International Arrivals thanks to 20,193 people touching down in Melbourne on 15 July 2018.

Sydney Airport July Stats:
Domestic: 2,383,000 +0.9%
International: 1,414,000 +5.4%

https://assets.ctfassets.net/v228i5y5k0 ... raffic.pdf
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:54 am

oskarclare wrote:
Air Niugini ending flights to TSV from 1 OCT 18. SYD being reduced to 2x weekly from 3x weekly. This is due to IASC knocking back PX/QF codeshare. BNE and CNS not affected.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... ownsville/


It doesn't say its solely due to that factor though and that IASC approval is unlikely to have saved TSV-POM. It is a shame for TSV and SYD to a lesser extent.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:55 am

log0008 wrote:
Melbourne Airport July Stats:

https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/Cor ... -July-2018

International: 1,000,120 +7.4%
Domestic: 2,285,400 +1.6%

The airport also hit a new ‘busiest day’ in International Arrivals thanks to 20,193 people touching down in Melbourne on 15 July 2018.

Sydney Airport July Stats:
Domestic: 2,383,000 +0.9%
International: 1,414,000 +5.4%

https://assets.ctfassets.net/v228i5y5k0 ... raffic.pdf


I didn’t realise the gap between MEL and SYD in domestic pax was that close. Interesting.

MEL hiting over 1 million international pax for the month was a big result too.

Still no idea how they are actually copeing with that demand with the facilities at either MEL or SYD.
 
log0008
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:21 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Melbourne Airport July Stats:

https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/Cor ... -July-2018

International: 1,000,120 +7.4%
Domestic: 2,285,400 +1.6%

The airport also hit a new ‘busiest day’ in International Arrivals thanks to 20,193 people touching down in Melbourne on 15 July 2018.

Sydney Airport July Stats:
Domestic: 2,383,000 +0.9%
International: 1,414,000 +5.4%

https://assets.ctfassets.net/v228i5y5k0 ... raffic.pdf


I didn’t realise the gap between MEL and SYD in domestic pax was that close. Interesting.

MEL hiting over 1 million international pax for the month was a big result too.

Still no idea how they are actually copeing with that demand with the facilities at either MEL or SYD.


It is close but July is about as close as it gets loads of Victorians fleeing North in the heart of winter.
 
User avatar
wiggy
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:24 am

well i just saw a qantas dreamliner from melbourne to brisbane on flightradar24
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:26 am

wiggy wrote:
well i just saw a qantas dreamliner from melbourne to brisbane on flightradar24


I think they are running 2 x daily 787’s on the route currently if I remember correctly.
 
log0008
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:31 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
wiggy wrote:
well i just saw a qantas dreamliner from melbourne to brisbane on flightradar24


I think they are running 2 x daily 787’s on the route currently if I remember correctly.


Yep
 
oskarclare
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:37 am

sq256 wrote:
Although not guaranteed, I do have to wonder if a CEB-BNE link may work from a loads and/or yield perspective, even if it only starts at 2 or 3 weekly.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... wth-432701


Would love to see this route happen and hopefully not too far away. A321neo would be perfect aircraft with 5J or PR
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:48 am

oskarclare wrote:
sq256 wrote:
Although not guaranteed, I do have to wonder if a CEB-BNE link may work from a loads and/or yield perspective, even if it only starts at 2 or 3 weekly.

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/ ... wth-432701


Would love to see this route happen and hopefully not too far away. A321neo would be perfect aircraft with 5J or PR


I'm still unsure why BNE would be the first Australian port ex-CEB.... is there a large demand for CEB-BNE (vs SYD/MEL)? PR flies the A321neo SYD-MNL so launching SYD-CEB would not be a problem...
 
a320fan
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:36 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Melbourne Airport July Stats:

https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/Cor ... -July-2018

International: 1,000,120 +7.4%
Domestic: 2,285,400 +1.6%

The airport also hit a new ‘busiest day’ in International Arrivals thanks to 20,193 people touching down in Melbourne on 15 July 2018.

Sydney Airport July Stats:
Domestic: 2,383,000 +0.9%
International: 1,414,000 +5.4%

https://assets.ctfassets.net/v228i5y5k0 ... raffic.pdf


I didn’t realise the gap between MEL and SYD in domestic pax was that close. Interesting.

MEL hiting over 1 million international pax for the month was a big result too.

Still no idea how they are actually copeing with that demand with the facilities at either MEL or SYD.


Well current projections are MEL will overtake SYD as the most populas city by 2030, that’s less than 12 years so makes sense that domestic demand is pretty close. Syd still has and will have the international business and tourism draw however, so I project these numbers to maintain some lead in syds favour.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1687
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:05 am

tullamarine wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
There’s a lot of talk about Luxon making demands of VA to shut down its international division and put traffic onto NZ, but is there any substance to this? Or is it perhaps just an A-Net rumour, like so many others, that has become almost fact by repetition? Just curious . . .


We honestly don't know because none of us were in the board meetings. It does make sense though. With only a small population base, NZ relies heavily on AU originating traffic for its trans-Pacific volumes. It would've galled Luxon when he saw that VA's Pacific services weren't particularly profitable at the same time as they were taking the significant Velocity base away from using NZ services.

Having said that, the idea that removing VA from Pacific services would've been a boon for NZ seems a bit naive unless NZ were planning to re-enter direct services to US from AU. Most people would take a direct service from AU to US so, if anything, VA's exit would've been a bigger help to QF and UA. NZ's competitiveness of AU-US services is basically price-driven. A one-stop service on a so-so product no better than anyone else's means price is your only weapon.

Well, yes, it doesn’t really make sense to me either, unless NZ was thinking of returning to the Australia-US market itself. The only way that could have been practical in the short term would have been for NZ to take over VA’s five 77Ws, which are not compatible with NZ’s. Personally doubtful, and I think the story may well be speculation that has grown legs on A-Net. Seems more likely to me that Luxon called out Borghetti for VA’s general lack of performance but did not do his homework and naively thought the other shareholders would back him. When they did not, the NZ board considered the long-term prospects under Borghetti and decided out was better than in. But, as you say, we weren’t there!
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
QF742
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:31 am

a320fan wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
log0008 wrote:
Melbourne Airport July Stats:

https://www.melbourneairport.com.au/Cor ... -July-2018

International: 1,000,120 +7.4%
Domestic: 2,285,400 +1.6%

The airport also hit a new ‘busiest day’ in International Arrivals thanks to 20,193 people touching down in Melbourne on 15 July 2018.

Sydney Airport July Stats:
Domestic: 2,383,000 +0.9%
International: 1,414,000 +5.4%

https://assets.ctfassets.net/v228i5y5k0 ... raffic.pdf


I didn’t realise the gap between MEL and SYD in domestic pax was that close. Interesting.

MEL hiting over 1 million international pax for the month was a big result too.

Still no idea how they are actually copeing with that demand with the facilities at either MEL or SYD.


Well current projections are MEL will overtake SYD as the most populas city by 2030, that’s less than 12 years so makes sense that domestic demand is pretty close. Syd still has and will have the international business and tourism draw however, so I project these numbers to maintain some lead in syds favour.


It’s great to see numbers at MEL continuinjng to grow strongly, particularly international. There were a lot of announcements for new international services last year, but this year does seem a bit quieter.

Any suggestions for new international services we could expect to see ex MEL? I wonder if KE would consider returning. There certainly seems to be a lot of demand that KE could tap into - eg transit pax to Japan and China.

Would also be interested to hear how AC’s route to YVR is going?
 
ZuluAlpha
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:22 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:07 am

VapourTrails wrote:
ZuluAlpha wrote:
With the talk of QF schedule changes, and the ease of them, QF is spending significant manpower and finances to try and improve the product further. They are about to introduce a new Amadeus platform where it will change multiple pax with multiple connections in a single transaction for delays and disrupts (not schedule changes).


Thank you. That is an interesting development. Well, it’s happened again! This is the third, or fourth time my booking has to be altered. Does not usually happen to me. The Qantas Concierge Chat Bot was not an option this time for whatever reason, and there is currently a long wait via phone. Are the major altering schedules in times and connections due to the pilot shortage I wonder.. usually I have minor five or ten minutes changes which I just click to accept, and even then not that often.

I also tried this week to check some price comparisons for my next booking, looking at VA - and their online booking system was down. Was a few days ago. I still lament I didn’t get another chance to fly on their E190 again. :worried:


Something for you to try to help the long delays on the phone (they are not going away anytime soon), When you dial 13 13 13 select the options to make a new booking, do not use the option that you have an existing booking, it should be quicker as Qantas will be very happy to take more money from a new customer (but don't quote me on the wait times).
Flown on:_CRJ, CR7 D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W
 
Obzerva
Posts: 503
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:18 am

QF742 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

I didn’t realise the gap between MEL and SYD in domestic pax was that close. Interesting.

MEL hiting over 1 million international pax for the month was a big result too.

Still no idea how they are actually copeing with that demand with the facilities at either MEL or SYD.


Well current projections are MEL will overtake SYD as the most populas city by 2030, that’s less than 12 years so makes sense that domestic demand is pretty close. Syd still has and will have the international business and tourism draw however, so I project these numbers to maintain some lead in syds favour.


It’s great to see numbers at MEL continuinjng to grow strongly, particularly international. There were a lot of announcements for new international services last year, but this year does seem a bit quieter.

Any suggestions for new international services we could expect to see ex MEL? I wonder if KE would consider returning. There certainly seems to be a lot of demand that KE could tap into - eg transit pax to Japan and China.

Would also be interested to hear how AC’s route to YVR is going?


VN to HAN would be one I could see in the future.

MEL could see more frequency increases rather than new routes, LA has announced that the increase for SCL.
Otherwise TT to any NZ city or one of the AirAsia longhaul franchises, eg XJ to DMK?
 
eastwest101
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:15 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:01 am

oskarclare wrote:
Air Niugini ending flights to TSV from 1 OCT 18. SYD being reduced to 2x weekly from 3x weekly. This is due to IASC knocking back PX/QF codeshare. BNE and CNS not affected.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... ownsville/


Here is something that only a competition lawyer would be able to answer, but this IASC decision seems to fly in the the face of common sense.

I know that the load factors between TSV-POM may have been a bit low, and there may be an element of ' throwing toys out of the cot' happening here but the existing PX service was useful for a sizeable proportion of FIFO workers based in TSV (and CNS) who work at various resource projects in PNG, so now the IASC has in effect made this workforce fly TSV-CNS-POM-XXX instead of just TSV-POM-XXX. If Qantas was able to code share on PX TSV-POM then I don't think that would have made any difference as these guys are price inelastic customers but of course may have preferred to get booked on the QF codeshare if they had any choice in the matter. So now they are flying TSV-CNS and I wonder which airline has a cozy monopoly on that route with no competition now? Any guesses?

Similary by nixing the codeshare someone in SYD wanting to go to POM now has to book on the PX service and can't fly QF direct - instead they are rerouted through BNE on a domestic then international transfer in BNE with the reverse happening on return. Thus handing PX an effective monopoly on the higher yielding SYD-POM market.

I live in TSV so when the PX service started it opened up a possibility of some actual viable 1 stop international flights via POM to say Singapore (or even Japan) - but of course PX is so limited in fleet that they couldn't offer any sensible connection times or compelling fares for me to consider that, but the point remains is that this also helps QF by reducing any other options for people who live in TSV unless they want to backtrack to BNE or SYD (which QF have JQized) or fly to CNS and the only options there are JQ to Japan.

So the effect is to funnel all PNG-AUS traffic through BNE with both VA and QF already price gouging on prices, and PX lacking the ability or aircraft to upsize or compete the end result is higher airfares between PNG and Australia.

The argument that the IASC uses of : "“The Commission’s finding is that Qantas’s proposed free-sale codeshare arrangement with Air Niugini would reduce competition by increasing barriers to entry on the city pairs served only by Air Niugini (Cairns-Port Moresby, Sydney-Port Moresby, Townsville-Port Moresby) and by risking the withdrawal of Virgin Australia from the Brisbane-Port Moresby sector, where both Qantas and Air Niugini offer parallel services,” the IASC draft determination said.


Has one massive logical flaw - its not like its possible or likely that there are a huge array of carriers in PNG or in Australia who are lining up to fly between PNG and Australia. And its not like aircraft and trained crew are easy to find so I wouldn't imagine that flying a F70 between TSV-POM is going to be such a huge money spinner because if it was then someone would already be doing it.

So if the ASC's intention is to throw a massive wet blanket over any competition or compatative options for flying into and out of Australia then they can claim "mission successful"....

Have I missed something obvious?
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1739
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:49 am

eastwest101 wrote:
oskarclare wrote:
Air Niugini ending flights to TSV from 1 OCT 18. SYD being reduced to 2x weekly from 3x weekly. This is due to IASC knocking back PX/QF codeshare. BNE and CNS not affected.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/0 ... ownsville/


Here is something that only a competition lawyer would be able to answer, but this IASC decision seems to fly in the the face of common sense.

I know that the load factors between TSV-POM may have been a bit low, and there may be an element of ' throwing toys out of the cot' happening here but the existing PX service was useful for a sizeable proportion of FIFO workers based in TSV (and CNS) who work at various resource projects in PNG, so now the IASC has in effect made this workforce fly TSV-CNS-POM-XXX instead of just TSV-POM-XXX. If Qantas was able to code share on PX TSV-POM then I don't think that would have made any difference as these guys are price inelastic customers but of course may have preferred to get booked on the QF codeshare if they had any choice in the matter. So now they are flying TSV-CNS and I wonder which airline has a cozy monopoly on that route with no competition now? Any guesses?

Similary by nixing the codeshare someone in SYD wanting to go to POM now has to book on the PX service and can't fly QF direct - instead they are rerouted through BNE on a domestic then international transfer in BNE with the reverse happening on return. Thus handing PX an effective monopoly on the higher yielding SYD-POM market.

I live in TSV so when the PX service started it opened up a possibility of some actual viable 1 stop international flights via POM to say Singapore (or even Japan) - but of course PX is so limited in fleet that they couldn't offer any sensible connection times or compelling fares for me to consider that, but the point remains is that this also helps QF by reducing any other options for people who live in TSV unless they want to backtrack to BNE or SYD (which QF have JQized) or fly to CNS and the only options there are JQ to Japan.

So the effect is to funnel all PNG-AUS traffic through BNE with both VA and QF already price gouging on prices, and PX lacking the ability or aircraft to upsize or compete the end result is higher airfares between PNG and Australia.

The argument that the IASC uses of : "“The Commission’s finding is that Qantas’s proposed free-sale codeshare arrangement with Air Niugini would reduce competition by increasing barriers to entry on the city pairs served only by Air Niugini (Cairns-Port Moresby, Sydney-Port Moresby, Townsville-Port Moresby) and by risking the withdrawal of Virgin Australia from the Brisbane-Port Moresby sector, where both Qantas and Air Niugini offer parallel services,” the IASC draft determination said.


Has one massive logical flaw - its not like its possible or likely that there are a huge array of carriers in PNG or in Australia who are lining up to fly between PNG and Australia. And its not like aircraft and trained crew are easy to find so I wouldn't imagine that flying a F70 between TSV-POM is going to be such a huge money spinner because if it was then someone would already be doing it.

So if the ASC's intention is to throw a massive wet blanket over any competition or compatative options for flying into and out of Australia then they can claim "mission successful"....

Have I missed something obvious?


The problem with your argument is that you are talking logically. Logic has very little to do with aviation and even less so with anything to do with a government department.

I trust you see the error in your ways :crazy:
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3404
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:01 pm

Obzerva wrote:
QF742 wrote:
a320fan wrote:

Well current projections are MEL will overtake SYD as the most populas city by 2030, that’s less than 12 years so makes sense that domestic demand is pretty close. Syd still has and will have the international business and tourism draw however, so I project these numbers to maintain some lead in syds favour.


It’s great to see numbers at MEL continuinjng to grow strongly, particularly international. There were a lot of announcements for new international services last year, but this year does seem a bit quieter.

Any suggestions for new international services we could expect to see ex MEL? I wonder if KE would consider returning. There certainly seems to be a lot of demand that KE could tap into - eg transit pax to Japan and China.

Would also be interested to hear how AC’s route to YVR is going?


VN to HAN would be one I could see in the future.

MEL could see more frequency increases rather than new routes, LA has announced that the increase for SCL.
Otherwise TT to any NZ city or one of the AirAsia longhaul franchises, eg XJ to DMK?


Given that Air Asia are moving flights from MEL to AVV in December, that isn’t going to occur at Tullamarine. I do expect BKK and DPS to be started in the next couple of years from AVV though, but a lot of that will depend on how the KUL flights perform.

I agree that most of the growth will come from aircraft upgauges and frequency increases. The only new routes I can see are:

- Seoul
- Hanoi (VN have listed this as a future route)
- Dallas-Fort Worth (Likely to be a future QF route)
- Addis Ababa (ET have mentioned this as a route they plan to launch)
- Osaka
- Mumbai
- Additinal China routes, including Hainan Island

Gradual increases of SCL and YVR can be expected, along with DEL.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:45 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
The only new routes I can see are: - Seoul - Hanoi - Dallas-Fort Worth - Osaka - Mumbai ...

I agree with those, but could also see in the medium-term:

- ADD (ET is planning to fly to MEL, potentially via SEZ)
- CEB
- HND (NH has said that MEL is on its radar after SYD)
- IST (TK says that MEL will follow SYD flights, via Asia)
- PNH (A “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”)
- SUV (FJ's new MAX's could tap business ties, like ANZ)
- VLI

See:
- https://www.thereporterethiopia.com/art ... ional-jets.
- https://www.ausbt.com.au/with-boeing-78 ... -australia.
- https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50503667/n ... -take-off/.
- https://www.anna.aero/2017/11/29/melbou ... jump-onto/.

There are a few other potential routes, which are less likely:

- DAC (BG was rumoured to be considering Australia, but SYD)
- EZE (AR is considering Australia - MEL has to be an option)
- HNL (HA is considering MEL, but not in the short-mid term)
- JED (SV just hired a new Australia GSA, and are expanding)
- JNB (If QF decided to split JNB between SYD/MEL with 789's)
- KTM (RA was rumoured to be considering Australia, but SYD)
- NBO (If KQ ever sorts itself out and gets back in good shape)

IndianicWorld wrote:
- Additinal China routes, including Hainan Island ...

Specifically, the following (many already served from SYD):

- FOC
- HAK
- KMG
- NKG
- TSN
- WUH
- SYX

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:03 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
- Dallas-Fort Worth (Likely to be a future QF route)

This would be extremely long - about the same distance as PER - LHR (~9,000 mi). IMO, PER - LHR works because of LHR - it's a mega-hub with a lot of O&D demand and high yields. In contrast, DFW is not like that. Could MEL - DFW really work, and is it necessary?

Cheers,

C.
 
getluv
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:12 pm

With the price of oil where it's at and the AUD being weak, I doubt you will hear many airlines announcing new routes or increases over the foreseeable future. You can tell by the media releases from SYD and MEL today with their monthly results. Nothing about new services or increases like they usually have.
I'm that bad type.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11410
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:51 pm

Qantas to operate one time SYD-BNE 744 service

https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 15489?s=21
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11410
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:53 pm

FM applies for 7 weekly PVG-MEL 789 service from October 18

https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 27168?s=21
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
vhqpa
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:36 pm

qf789 wrote:
Qantas to operate one time SYD-BNE 744 service

https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 15489?s=21


It appears to be a tag on to BNE-LAX-BNE

27SEP QF55 SYD-BNE 1345 1520
27SEP QF55 BNE-LAX 1750 1330

29SEP QF56 LAX-BNE 2215 0500+2
01OCT QF56 BNE-SYD 0730 0910
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
Midwest2K
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 pm

Any update on:

BNE-DFW/ORD/SEA
MEL-DFW
SYD-SEA

These seem to be to most talked about routes in the future to the US.
 
QF742
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:09 am

Midwest2K wrote:
Any update on:

BNE-DFW/ORD/SEA
MEL-DFW
SYD-SEA

These seem to be to most talked about routes in the future to the US.


I imagine that we will need to wait and see what happens with the proposed QF-AA JV before we hear about any new routes to/from the US.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:34 am

vhqpa wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas to operate one time SYD-BNE 744 service

https://twitter.com/airlineroute/status ... 15489?s=21


It appears to be a tag on to BNE-LAX-BNE

27SEP QF55 SYD-BNE 1345 1520
27SEP QF55 BNE-LAX 1750 1330

29SEP QF56 LAX-BNE 2215 0500+2
01OCT QF56 BNE-SYD 0730 0910


Indeed and will operate from the international terminal...

Also operating QF55 on the 4th of October...
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1995
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:57 am

IASC wrote:
In relation to the application for renewal of determination [2013] IASC 112, which allocates 900 seats of capacity in each direction on the Papua New Guinea route, Virgin Australia has also sought authorisation for the use of the capacity for the provision of code share services, on a free-sale basis, with PNG Air. It is noted that the existing determination includes a condition permitting the use of the capacity for the provision of code share services with Airlines PNG (now PNG Air), under a hard-block arrangement.


What might this lead to, if anything?
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2904
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:20 am

PX warned the local trade about a year ago that their TSV-POM flights were not meeting target and needed support. The route was already on life-support before the IASC knocked back the QF codeshare.
 
QF744ER
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:18 am

There was talk a while back about JQ installing slimline seats and increasing capacity on selected A320's, are these works still ongoing or have they been completed yet?

I've flown on 3 different A32x's recently and they've all had different seats.
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:05 am

Detailed plans for Western Sydney Airport site released

The Department of Planning and Environment on Tuesday released an initial land-use plan for the so-called Western Sydney Aerotropolis, a region earmarked to take advantage of economic activity stimulated by the airport.
The plan breaks the land around the 1780-hectare Western Sydney Airport site into nine precincts. It selects two of those precincts – “Aerotropolis Core” and “Northern Gateway” for immediate planning, with rezoning to be completed by the end of 2019. The development of other areas around the airport is to be staged.
Work on a third precinct, “South Creek”, which cuts through the area and is intended to be a green spine “providing open space, amenity, biodiversity and wellbeing values” is also intended to start soon.


https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/lan ... 4zyul.html
 
a19901213
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:34 am

planemanofnz wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
The only new routes I can see are: - Seoul - Hanoi - Dallas-Fort Worth - Osaka - Mumbai ...

I agree with those, but could also see in the medium-term:

- ADD (ET is planning to fly to MEL, potentially via SEZ)
- CEB
- HND (NH has said that MEL is on its radar after SYD)
- IST (TK says that MEL will follow SYD flights, via Asia)
- PNH (A “Skyscanner Unserved Route of the Week”)
- SUV (FJ's new MAX's could tap business ties, like ANZ)
- VLI

See:
- https://www.thereporterethiopia.com/art ... ional-jets.
- https://www.ausbt.com.au/with-boeing-78 ... -australia.
- https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50503667/n ... -take-off/.
- https://www.anna.aero/2017/11/29/melbou ... jump-onto/.

There are a few other potential routes, which are less likely:

- DAC (BG was rumoured to be considering Australia, but SYD)
- EZE (AR is considering Australia - MEL has to be an option)
- HNL (HA is considering MEL, but not in the short-mid term)
- JED (SV just hired a new Australia GSA, and are expanding)
- JNB (If QF decided to split JNB between SYD/MEL with 789's)
- KTM (RA was rumoured to be considering Australia, but SYD)
- NBO (If KQ ever sorts itself out and gets back in good shape)

IndianicWorld wrote:
- Additinal China routes, including Hainan Island ...

Specifically, the following (many already served from SYD):

- FOC
- HAK
- KMG
- NKG
- TSN
- WUH
- SYX

Cheers,

C.


If it was to be Japan it won’t be HND. No slots available.
 
VapourTrails
Posts: 3939
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:47 am

ZuluAlpha wrote:
VapourTrails wrote:
ZuluAlpha wrote:
With the talk of QF schedule changes, and the ease of them, QF is spending significant manpower and finances to try and improve the product further. They are about to introduce a new Amadeus platform where it will change multiple pax with multiple connections in a single transaction for delays and disrupts (not schedule changes).


Thank you. That is an interesting development. Well, it’s happened again! This is the third, or fourth time my booking has to be altered. Does not usually happen to me. The Qantas customer service chatbot was not an option this time for whatever reason, and there is currently a long wait via phone.


Something for you to try to help the long delays on the phone (they are not going away anytime soon), When you dial 13 13 13 select the options to make a new booking, do not use the option that you have an existing booking, it should be quicker as Qantas will be very happy to take more money from a new customer (but don't quote me on the wait times).


Thank you for that, good advice. :thumbsup: They also have this handy call back feature so I used that. Got back to me within the hour. Turns out I’ve gone full circle on the outbound and now pretty much have my original booking reinstated, obviously with slightly different rescheduled shuffled around again times to allow the connection to be once again permissible. The issue was CBR MEL HBA SYD.

My advice to anyone trying app chat or artificial intelligence chatbots is if you use the chat and you are not happy with their reschedule suggestions, just say you will ring the airline to discuss it further and then end the chat and resolve it via the phone. I am all for willing to try new technologies with airlines but sometimes the situations become complex. At least that is how I view AI or live chat and customer service in 2018. Don’t like to think that AI will be doing away with jobs either. Phone customer service was excellent on this occasion.

As for app chat, but is it a bot or a person? I asked the customer service on the phone and they said it was a person not AI.. :scratchchin: I really wouldn’t know .. anyway I just want to get on the aircraft and get to my destination on time! :yes:
 
ZuluAlpha
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:22 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2018

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:16 am

The QF full year results will be out this Thursday. I wonder what the easter eggs (if any) will be.

Thoughts?

Predictions ?
Flown on:_CRJ, CR7 D10 DHT DH8, DH2, DH3, DH4, EMB, E45, E75, E90, F28 J32 M80 SH6 320, 32B, 332, 333, 380, 717, 732, 733, 734, 73H, 743, 744, 752 762, 763, 772, 77W

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos