AA321T
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AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:43 pm

For the first time, American Airlines — together with its Pacific Joint Business partner Japan Airlines (JAL) —is announcing a special nonstop flight between Narita International Airport in Tokyo (NRT) and McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas (LAS) to support additional demand for CES® 2019. American will operate the flight Jan. 4–14, 2019 ... This special service will be flown on American’s Boeing 787-8 and will be marketed by Japan Airlines. For the 10-day period, American’s service between NRT and Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD) will operate through LAS. JAL will continue to offer nonstop service between NRT and ORD during the same period.


http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2018/American-Airlines-and-Japan-Airlines-Announce-Nonstop-Service-from-Tokyo-to-Las-Vegas-for-CES-2019/default.aspx
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:48 pm

I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.
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LAXintl
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:52 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.


JAL tried. NW tried.

At the end of the day its bottom of barrel tourist traffic - similar to Japan-Hawaii which makes it unsustainable especially now without a US3 hubbing in Vegas.
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airzona11
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:07 pm

I am shocked there isn’t a way to operate this without pulling back the ORD-NRT flight.
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:08 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.


You must distinguish Japanese out from Korean and Chinese. Being a frequent Chinese visitor to Las Vegas I have always encountered roughly 70% Chinese (origin wise, including Southeast Asian or American Chinese) and 30% Korean as a rough impression judging by their languages. Of course it could not be 0% Japanese but they are not very visible among East Asian tourists. Maybe Japanese are too busy with pachinko at home, or visiting Macau and Singapore which are closer to their culture and cuisine?
 
727LOVER
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:09 pm

LAXintl wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.


JAL tried. NW tried.

At the end of the day its bottom of barrel tourist traffic - similar to Japan-Hawaii which makes it unsustainable especially now without a US3 hubbing in Vegas.


LOL....I guess MCO is ou then.

When did NW fly TYO-LAS? What equip?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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janders
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:15 pm

Guess Delta not running the Tokyo CES flights this year?

727LOVER wrote:
When did NW fly TYO-LAS? What equip?


747 late 1990s. For example summer 1998 it was 2x weekly 742.

Was obviously a flop and by 2000 they added a triangle LAX stop on return. By 2001 route dropped entirely.
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eta unknown
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:17 pm

NW was a 742. The JAL flight operated with an LVCA subsidy and was promptly suspended once the subsidy expired- towards the end JAL tried to improve route performance by operating NRT-LAS-LAX-NRT.
 
MKIAZ
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:33 pm

Smart. They can sell connections all over Asia with JAL. NRT-ORD loads must be pretty low to change it up like this.
 
beerbus
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:37 pm

In the early 80's NW offered a 1x daily LAX LAS 727-200 RT. It left LAX in the afternoon, returning the next morning.

It was timed to connect to NW 001/002 LAX NRT.

Just one flight per day- to connect Asian pax to LAS over LAX.

It was later moved from LAX to SFO
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:44 pm

beerbus wrote:
In the early 80's NW offered a 1x daily LAX LAS 727-200 RT. It left LAX in the afternoon, returning the next morning.

It was timed to connect to NW 001/002 LAX NRT.

Just one flight per day- to connect Asian pax to LAS over LAX.

It was later moved from LAX to SFO


My memory is fuzzy but I think they may have done something similar with an Airbus in the early 00s; I have a vague memory of single daily LAS-LAX service.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:51 pm

chonetsao wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.


You must distinguish Japanese out from Korean and Chinese. Being a frequent Chinese visitor to Las Vegas I have always encountered roughly 70% Chinese (origin wise, including Southeast Asian or American Chinese) and 30% Korean as a rough impression judging by their languages. Of course it could not be 0% Japanese but they are not very visible among East Asian tourists. Maybe Japanese are too busy with pachinko at home, or visiting Macau and Singapore which are closer to their culture and cuisine?


More like Japanese tourists just doesn't seems to go anywhere nowaday, other than maybe Hawaii. With a fairly weak yen (which is helping inbound tourism to Japan quite a bit) and an economy that's going nowhere for decades now, Japanese simply doesn't spend nearly as much traveling as they once did.

As for gambling - Macau is not exactly crazily big place to visit for Japanese, either. Just for example, there are 600k visitors from S. Korea to Macau in 2016, compare to 300k visitors from Japan, even though Japan has 2.5x the population of South Korea. None of the Japanese LCC fly to Macau, either. For comparison, from ICN you got LJ (Jin Air), TW (T'way), and 7C (Jeju Air) to MFM.

Further helps is that Chinese American and Korean American population are both way larger than Japanese American.
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c933103
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:55 pm

LAXintl wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.


JAL tried. NW tried.

At the end of the day its bottom of barrel tourist traffic - similar to Japan-Hawaii which makes it unsustainable especially now without a US3 hubbing in Vegas.

Japan to Hawaii isn't exactly bottom of barrels
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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janders
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:48 pm

c933103 wrote:
Japan to Hawaii isn't exactly bottom of barrels


It largely is for airlines.

When bulk of passengers from Japan point of sale are on packages, the airline portion of the package is often barely $300/rt. That's not even $0.04 mile.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:24 am

For this short time willl rake in money. Longer calendar it's easy to fill, but yields are just low. Seems like a good connection market
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:34 am

Cubsrule wrote:
beerbus wrote:
In the early 80's NW offered a 1x daily LAX LAS 727-200 RT. It left LAX in the afternoon, returning the next morning.

It was timed to connect to NW 001/002 LAX NRT.

Just one flight per day- to connect Asian pax to LAS over LAX.

It was later moved from LAX to SFO


My memory is fuzzy but I think they may have done something similar with an Airbus in the early 00s; I have a vague memory of single daily LAS-LAX service.


An Airbus LAS-NRT? I think the first TPAC NW A330 was PDX-NRT starting 9/1/2004. https://www.seattlepi.com/business/arti ... 153117.php

Somehow I share your memory of NW on LAS-LAX.
 
727200
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:53 am

At that time of year. AA should have a lot of slack in its fleet that it doesn't need to pull a plane off ORD to fly this route. But it does say that perhaps ORD-NRT for AA is not as big a winner as it was years ago. Especially when the LAS flights to NRT are tourist boats with minimal yield.

...And the Parker retrenchment continues from ORD.
 
c933103
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:04 am

727200 wrote:
At that time of year. AA should have a lot of slack in its fleet that it doesn't need to pull a plane off ORD to fly this route. But it does say that perhaps ORD-NRT for AA is not as big a winner as it was years ago. Especially when the LAS flights to NRT are tourist boats with minimal yield.

...And the Parker retrenchment continues from ORD.

As the flight is made specifically to target demand for CES, most travellers can be expected to be tech people
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:05 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
An Airbus LAS-NRT?

...no, LAS-California.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
c933103
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:07 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
As for gambling - Macau is not exactly crazily big place to visit for Japanese, either. Just for example, there are 600k visitors from S. Korea to Macau in 2016, compare to 300k visitors from Japan, even though Japan has 2.5x the population of South Korea. None of the Japanese LCC fly to Macau, either. For comparison, from ICN you got LJ (Jin Air), TW (T'way), and 7C (Jeju Air) to MFM.

Maybe because Japanese people can go to Korean casino but Korean people cannot?
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:15 am

janders wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Japan to Hawaii isn't exactly bottom of barrels


It largely is for airlines.

When bulk of passengers from Japan point of sale are on packages, the airline portion of the package is often barely $300/rt. That's not even $0.04 mile.


Not all fares are $300. Cargo??. People dismiss US-Hawaii and Asia-Hawaii as junk....smh

Seriously, bottom of the barrel does not mean the airline does not make money, even if the route is not profitable....having the route is important for the network overall sometimes. When a route is cancelled, again does not always mean its not a money maker....sometimes the airline can make more money elsewhere.

AA is probably doing juuust ok on ORD-NRT, but knows it can make MUCH more during this period on NRT-LAS (and JL can carry the nonstop loads to ORD for the period). Also a 787 economics is alot different to a 742 I would imagine.
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:20 am

Ever think it has to do with route authority?

When I worked in TPA when we were still Piedmont the route was TPA-CLT-LGW.

That is how the route was issued when Piedmont got the flight and it was a 767-200ER on the whole route.

AA doesn’t have route authority from LAS-NRT to fly non-stop.
 
wenders825
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:37 am

727200 wrote:
At that time of year. AA should have a lot of slack in its fleet that it doesn't need to pull a plane off ORD to fly this route. But it does say that perhaps ORD-NRT for AA is not as big a winner as it was years ago. Especially when the LAS flights to NRT are tourist boats with minimal yield.

...And the Parker retrenchment continues from ORD.

it's 10 days during low season. slow down

it should be no shocker ORD-NRT doesn't make as much money as LAX-NRT or DFW-NRT. which is all I get out of this
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:28 am

LAXLHR wrote:
[Not all fares are $300. Cargo??. People dismiss US-Hawaii and Asia-Hawaii as junk....smh


When bulk of customers are flying on vacation package, the net fare to the airlines is indeed pretty meager.

Boof02671 wrote:
AA doesn’t have route authority from LAS-NRT to fly non-stop.


They don't need anything. US-Japan is open-skies. So long as AA holds appropriate slots at NRT they can utilize them to any US city.
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gatibosgru
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:35 am

chonetsao wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.


You must distinguish Japanese out from Korean and Chinese. Being a frequent Chinese visitor to Las Vegas I have always encountered roughly 70% Chinese (origin wise, including Southeast Asian or American Chinese) and 30% Korean as a rough impression judging by their languages. Of course it could not be 0% Japanese but they are not very visible among East Asian tourists. Maybe Japanese are too busy with pachinko at home, or visiting Macau and Singapore which are closer to their culture and cuisine?


Completely agree about Chinese and Korean visitors being the overall majority, and it is evident! But I feel in the last 3-5 years I've noticed more and more Japanese tourists around Vegas, maybe because of the younger, more "pop" acts and clubs residents on the strip?
Last edited by gatibosgru on Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ShinyAndChrome
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:36 am

Were all things equal, I would have questioned moving the AA flight instead of the JL one since this LAS route is geared towards Japanese passengers, but AA's 787 is probably better suited for these kinds of special cases than JL's 777.
 
peanuts
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:13 am

Cubsrule wrote:

My memory is fuzzy but I think they may have done something similar with an Airbus in the early 00s; I have a vague memory of single daily LAS-LAX service.


Correct. It may have been even 1998. It also connected well to a LAX-HNL flight on NW, which is why I took it.
 
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spinkid
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:28 am

peanuts wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

My memory is fuzzy but I think they may have done something similar with an Airbus in the early 00s; I have a vague memory of single daily LAS-LAX service.


Correct. It may have been even 1998. It also connected well to a LAX-HNL flight on NW, which is why I took it.


At a certain point before the merger with DL it was a DC-9.

Speaking of Delta, they have been running this extra LAS-NRT segment the past few years. With AA moving this flight from ORD it will make for some uncomfortable connections for something like NRT-LAS-ORD-MSN (or something in that area)
 
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spinkid
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:28 am

peanuts wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

My memory is fuzzy but I think they may have done something similar with an Airbus in the early 00s; I have a vague memory of single daily LAS-LAX service.


Correct. It may have been even 1998. It also connected well to a LAX-HNL flight on NW, which is why I took it.


At a certain point before the merger with DL it was a DC-9.

Speaking of Delta, they have been running this extra LAS-NRT segment the past few years. With AA moving this flight from ORD it will make for some uncomfortable connections for something like NRT-LAS-ORD-MSN (or something in that area)
 
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compensateme
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:33 am

Cubsrule wrote:
beerbus wrote:
In the early 80's NW offered a 1x daily LAX LAS 727-200 RT. It left LAX in the afternoon, returning the next morning.

It was timed to connect to NW 001/002 LAX NRT.

Just one flight per day- to connect Asian pax to LAS over LAX.

It was later moved from LAX to SFO


My memory is fuzzy but I think they may have done something similar with an Airbus in the early 00s; I have a vague memory of single daily LAS-LAX service.


It operated in the late 1990s and ended after 9-11, replaced with a codeshare agreement with HP. (I believe even before 9–11, the flight was scheduled to end.). It resumed in 2004, and continued via the merger.

I also believe DL heavily marketed its LAS/LAX service to NRT passengers. I wasn’t a big DL flyer but I recall flying on a 733 LAX-LAS in the late 1990s or early 2000s that had a very large Japanese tour group.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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compensateme
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:56 am

spinkid wrote:
peanuts wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

My memory is fuzzy but I think they may have done something similar with an Airbus in the early 00s; I have a vague memory of single daily LAS-LAX service.


Correct. It may have been even 1998. It also connected well to a LAX-HNL flight on NW, which is why I took it.


At a certain point before the merger with DL it was a DC-9.)


The DC-9 lasted — literally —- a few days when the flight was reintroduced in 2004. IIRC, the original plan was to remove a couple rows from a single DC-9 to increase the pitch (the DC-9 was nitorious for its tight pitch) and fly it exclusively on a single daily flight between LAX/LAS. There was minimal connections from LAS, but this was seen as a cheaper alternative than paying HP. After a few days, NW realized it was a stupid idea — e.g. crew scheduling when there were no other DC-9 flights in LAS & LAX.

The rest of the flight’s history, it operated mostly as 320 — sometimes 757, and occasionally 319.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
77H
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:39 pm

LAXintl wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I'm shocked there isn't a regularly scheduled nonstop between LAS and TYO. I've seen many Japanese tourists in Vegas.


JAL tried. NW tried.

At the end of the day its bottom of barrel tourist traffic - similar to Japan-Hawaii which makes it unsustainable especially now without a US3 hubbing in Vegas.


I’ll preface this post by saying I don’t know what the yields are on Japan-Hawaii but how can a market that has 15+ flights a day be considered bottom of the barrel ? If this was the case wouldn’t we expect some of the airlines to drop out, especislly those with JVs.

77H
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:55 pm

727200 wrote:
At that time of year. AA should have a lot of slack in its fleet that it doesn't need to pull a plane off ORD to fly this route. But it does say that perhaps ORD-NRT for AA is not as big a winner as it was years ago. Especially when the LAS flights to NRT are tourist boats with minimal yield.

...And the Parker retrenchment continues from ORD.



Why do people constantly make stuff up like this? ORD is growing and they have added new international flying too.
 
DiscoverCSG
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:01 pm

727200 wrote:
At that time of year. AA should have a lot of slack in its fleet that it doesn't need to pull a plane off ORD to fly this route. But it does say that perhaps ORD-NRT for AA is not as big a winner as it was years ago. Especially when the LAS flights to NRT are tourist boats with minimal yield.

...And the Parker retrenchment continues from ORD.


I strongly suspect AA isn't rerouting the ORD-NRT flight via LAS because it lacks aircraft, but rather because it lacks NRT slots.
 
sagechan
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:54 pm

DiscoverCSG wrote:
727200 wrote:
At that time of year. AA should have a lot of slack in its fleet that it doesn't need to pull a plane off ORD to fly this route. But it does say that perhaps ORD-NRT for AA is not as big a winner as it was years ago. Especially when the LAS flights to NRT are tourist boats with minimal yield.

...And the Parker retrenchment continues from ORD.


I strongly suspect AA isn't rerouting the ORD-NRT flight via LAS because it lacks aircraft, but rather because it lacks NRT slots.


The 788s should be going through PE retrofit soon, so they may actually be a bit short on aircraft as well. They've stated ORD-Asia is weak (though NRT supposedly a bit better) so a temp one stop makes a bit of sense. Most connections can still 1 stop via DFW or LAX just a handful of small midwest cities and the local O&D are impacted during slow season.
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ScottB
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:22 pm

sagechan wrote:
Most connections can still 1 stop via DFW or LAX just a handful of small midwest cities and the local O&D are impacted during slow season.


The connections can also go on the JAL ORD-NRT flight which will continue to operate.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:53 pm

77H wrote:
I’ll preface this post by saying I don’t know what the yields are on Japan-Hawaii but how can a market that has 15+ flights a day be considered bottom of the barrel ? If this was the case wouldn’t we expect some of the airlines to drop out, especislly those with JVs.


They sell packages. All the airlines have tour divisions or associations with big travel companies like JTB. Even Air Asia X has tie in with Rakuten.

So while air portion of revenue is very low, they earn commissions/prorate from hotels, car rentals, tour activities etc being sold in the package.

Same reason why US airlines serve many other beach markets where air portion might be loss-making on a standalone basis, but their vacation divisions can make money on the larger package.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
777PHX
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:40 pm

airzona11 wrote:
I am shocked there isn’t a way to operate this without pulling back the ORD-NRT flight.


NRT is slot constrained. They couldn't do it without tagging on the US side or canceling another flight.
 
klakzky123
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:55 pm

Speaking of slots, how does the slot process work for NRT? With the slow dismantling of the NW/DL NRT routes, where are all of the DL slots going? Plus many of those were 5th freedom so that's a fair number of slots that aren't being used anymore.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: AA announces special NRT-LAS flights

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:09 pm

Hmmm...might be a good time for me to do ORD-LAS, make a few blackjack dealers happy...!

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