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tlvflyguy
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UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:00 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/ ... srael.html

3x weekly starting 22MAY19, served by 772.

This has been rumored along with ORD-TLV for a while. Interesting to see IAD win over ORD.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:05 pm

tlvflyguy wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/08/02/united-airlines-boosting-service-to-israel.html

3x weekly starting 22MAY19, served by 772.

This has been rumored along with ORD-TLV for a while. Interesting to see IAD win over ORD.


Doesnt surprise me at all actually. With all the diplomatic traffic between the two, that probably can do a better job of filling J seats.
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UAL777UK
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:06 pm

Cannot read the article but fair play to UA, they certainly have some capacity going to TLV now. Wonder if ORD will come to fruition.?
 
LHUSA
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:07 pm

Great new route for UA. Makes sense with UA's strategy of increasing flow via IAD. Israel is a VERY strong market for them, this should do well.
 
ADrum23
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:09 pm

What the?

IAD over ORD? Seriously? LY would be better for IAD-TLV.

I still can’t believe ORD has no flight to TLV.
 
flyguy84
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:10 pm

This will likely help them funnel more of the TLV connecting traffic through IAD and focus EWR/TLV on O&D.
SFO
 
SESGDL
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:21 pm

With all this recent longhaul growth by UA, it shouldn't be too long before they overtake AA as the world's largest carrier again. It'll be like the 90s all over again, 1) UA, 2) AA, 3) DL.

Jeremy
 
ericm2031
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:28 pm

Surprised they're starting up with so much capacity
 
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bgm
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:33 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
tlvflyguy wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/08/02/united-airlines-boosting-service-to-israel.html

3x weekly starting 22MAY19, served by 772.

This has been rumored along with ORD-TLV for a while. Interesting to see IAD win over ORD.


Doesnt surprise me at all actually. With all the diplomatic traffic between the two, that probably can do a better job of filling J seats.


1) Why would there be so much diplomatic traffic? No more than other countries with bilateral relations.

2) What makes you think that diplomats fly J? Is Uncle Sam really that generous?
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SCQ83
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:43 pm

With the US moving the Embassy to Jerusalem, the new high-speed rail Tel Aviv-TLV-Jerusalem opening this Fall comes handy.
 
ATLgaUSA
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:44 pm

bgm wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
tlvflyguy wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/08/02/united-airlines-boosting-service-to-israel.html

3x weekly starting 22MAY19, served by 772.

This has been rumored along with ORD-TLV for a while. Interesting to see IAD win over ORD.


Doesnt surprise me at all actually. With all the diplomatic traffic between the two, that probably can do a better job of filling J seats.


1) Why would there be so much diplomatic traffic? No more than other countries with bilateral relations.

2) What makes you think that diplomats fly J? Is Uncle Sam really that generous?


I’d imagine there is a good deal of defense contractor traffic between DC and Tel Aviv.
 
FSDan
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:45 pm

SESGDL wrote:
With all this recent longhaul growth by UA, it shouldn't be too long before they overtake AA as the world's largest carrier again. It'll be like the 90s all over again, 1) UA, 2) AA, 3) DL.

Jeremy


Actually, I think UA is still quite significantly behind AA and DL because they're so much smaller on the domestic side. AA has 9-10 hubs (depending on how you count JFK); DL has 8-9 (depending on how you count BOS); UA has 7. UA also has nothing remotely close to DL's ATL hub or AA's DFW hub, and is much more weighted towards regional aircraft than AA or DL.

All that said, I'd argue UA is easily the most impressive of the US3 on the international front.
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CapitalAvGeek
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:47 pm

MWAA has been wanting service to Tel Aviv for quite some time. It was one of their "two most important targets."
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... fl-450876/
 
evanb
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:49 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Doesnt surprise me at all actually. With all the diplomatic traffic between the two, that probably can do a better job of filling J seats.


Not quite sure what you mean here. Almost US government travel is in economy class. Only senior executive service staff even have the possibility of flying in business class. Even then, United already had the GSA City Pair Program award between DC and TLV meaning that they were the exclusive government provider between these points even without the new flight. So any US government traffic on the route will just be cannibalize from EWR-TLV.

Not sure what Israeli government's policy is. And don't expect a huge amount of other diplomatic travel between these two.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:50 pm

 
United1
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:51 pm

FSDan wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
With all this recent longhaul growth by UA, it shouldn't be too long before they overtake AA as the world's largest carrier again. It'll be like the 90s all over again, 1) UA, 2) AA, 3) DL.

Jeremy


Actually, I think UA is still quite significantly behind AA and DL because they're so much smaller on the domestic side. AA has 9-10 hubs (depending on how you count JFK); DL has 8-9 (depending on how you count BOS); UA has 7. UA also has nothing remotely close to DL's ATL hub or AA's DFW hub, and is much more weighted towards regional aircraft than AA or DL.

All that said, I'd argue UA is easily the most impressive of the US3 on the international front.


UA overtook DL in terms of ASMs and RSMs about a year ago. DL is still larger in terms of passenger carried and fleet size.

IAD to TLV came out of left field...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
CapitalAvGeek
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:52 pm

Time of the flights:

Flight

UA 72
IAD - TLV
Depart: 10:30 p.m.
Arrive: 4:30 p.m. +1
Weds, Fri, Sun
Boeing 777-200ER

UA 73
TLV - IAD
Depart: 12:20 a.m.
Arrive: 5:50 a.m.
Tues, Fri, Sun
Boeing 777-200ER

https://hub.united.com/-new-nonstopd--a ... 03601.html
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:59 pm

Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?
To me, it will always be:
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- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
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RainerBoeing777
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:03 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


in reality not so much, El Al reduced all its capacity in NYC at both airports, both JFK and EWR will all be operated by Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners instead of Boeing 747-400 / 777-200ER equipment
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STT757
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:14 pm

Will this be a GE-90 or Pratt powered route, the FA groups merge in October making something like this easier for UA to move aircraft around.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:19 pm

evanb wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Doesnt surprise me at all actually. With all the diplomatic traffic between the two, that probably can do a better job of filling J seats.


Not quite sure what you mean here. Almost US government travel is in economy class. Only senior executive service staff even have the possibility of flying in business class. Even then, United already had the GSA City Pair Program award between DC and TLV meaning that they were the exclusive government provider between these points even without the new flight. So any US government traffic on the route will just be cannibalize from EWR-TLV.

Not sure what Israeli government's policy is. And don't expect a huge amount of other diplomatic travel between these two.


I meant all that goes along with it. Defense contractors and the like.
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boilerla
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:28 pm

There's also a growing tech industry connection. Virginia has several large tech companies, in addition to tech companies in the defense/aerospace industries. TLV is becoming a big destination for tech.

Anybody know which version of the 772ER they're using? I don't think there'd be a problem filling seats, but the yield could be interesting.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:35 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


in reality not so much, El Al reduced all its capacity in NYC at both airports, both JFK and EWR will all be operated by Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners instead of Boeing 747-400 / 777-200ER equipment


Well the number of weekly flights for star alliance alone between the US and tlv is 34... without factoring in LY's operations. That's a ton of flights! It seems like tlv is a small market to me; what is the average load factor on those flights?
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:35 pm

STT757 wrote:
Will this be a GE-90 or Pratt powered route, the FA groups merge in October making something like this easier for UA to move aircraft around.


It will be the IPTE configuration
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
coairman
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:55 pm

I thought this could be a good market but didn’t realize it would really happen.

Great news for the reaffirmation of the comittment to UA’s Dulles Hub.
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
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yochai
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:59 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


in reality not so much, El Al reduced all its capacity in NYC at both airports, both JFK and EWR will all be operated by Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners instead of Boeing 747-400 / 777-200ER equipment


Well the number of weekly flights for star alliance alone between the US and tlv is 34... without factoring in LY's operations. That's a ton of flights! It seems like tlv is a small market to me; what is the average load factor on those flights?


Not sure of UA or DL LF but El Al is over 90% to North America
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:14 pm

Some are doing a dance on how the Washington economy is perfect for TLV. Yet I believe, just like with the MIA add, this isn't designed for O&D but more for transfers into IAD.

I mean NYC is the ultimate TLV O&D market in the US so why cannibalize it and pretend DC's O&D is as strong? It's not. UA's reasoning for the TLV add is about hub expansion and to drive transfer traffic away from EWR, no?
 
MAH4546
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:17 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


in reality not so much, El Al reduced all its capacity in NYC at both airports, both JFK and EWR will all be operated by Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners instead of Boeing 747-400 / 777-200ER equipment


Well the number of weekly flights for star alliance alone between the US and tlv is 34... without factoring in LY's operations. That's a ton of flights! It seems like tlv is a small market to me; what is the average load factor on those flights?


I think you are underestimating the size of Tel Aviv.

Tel Aviv is the third largest trans-Atlantic market from New York City, and one of only three (the others being Paris and London) with 1M+ passengers.

It's also a top ten trans-Atlantic market from Los Angeles and Miami.
a.
 
Boof02671
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:27 pm

And yet AA couldn’t make PHL-TLV work, or so they said.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:31 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Some are doing a dance on how the Washington economy is perfect for TLV. Yet I believe, just like with the MIA add, this isn't designed for O&D but more for transfers into IAD.

I mean NYC is the ultimate TLV O&D market in the US so why cannibalize it and pretend DC's O&D is as strong? It's not. UA's reasoning for the TLV add is about hub expansion and to drive transfer traffic away from EWR, no?


There's definitely some of what you're saying in play. By adding IAD, they can free up many of the seats connecting pax are taking for local traffic. Plus it has the benefit of shifting traffic (albeit small numbers) from XXX-EWR flights to XXX-IAD propping those flights up some.
 
winstonavgeek
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:31 pm

This should be a successful route. I thought that El Al would bite on the route first.
 
kiowa
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:50 pm

Glad to hear it! Hopefully Chicago will be next.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:57 pm

I flew EWR-TLV on the overnight flight last week, and the flight maybe had 4 total seats left open. Also, when I checked last, the round trip fares for economy were hovering over $3k. Seems like there is an appetite for more.
 
MKIAZ
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:10 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
And yet AA couldn’t make PHL-TLV work, or so they said.


This almost certainly had to be about the old TWA/AA issue with Israel. There is no other reason the largest US airline wouldn't have a flight to TLV - be it from PHL/JFK/MIA.
 
Boof02671
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:00 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
And yet AA couldn’t make PHL-TLV work, or so they said.


This almost certainly had to be about the old TWA/AA issue with Israel. There is no other reason the largest US airline wouldn't have a flight to TLV - be it from PHL/JFK/MIA.

That issue was settled as the route operated after the AA/US merger.
 
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OneSexyL1011
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:50 pm

The TLV flights are extremely high yeilds for us and using the IAD as a connection funnel lets us concentrate on the O&D from EWR/SFO. Yes, there is some O&D traffic in IAD, but mostly this is for connections. I can see this flight going daily eventually. Starting off like the SFO flight couple years back. Test the waters then increase frequency later.

TLV is ALWAYS a money maker for us. One of our crown jewels for sure.
 
tpaewr
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:11 pm

This is exactly what we can expect going forward as EWR is focused on O&D and connecting traffic is shifted toward IAD.

The company has publicly stated that EWR focus will be on local traffic. Because contrary to a-net mythology EWR is New York’s biggest hub.
 
amirs
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:21 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


in reality not so much, El Al reduced all its capacity in NYC at both airports, both JFK and EWR will all be operated by Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners instead of Boeing 747-400 / 777-200ER equipment

Actually
For the summer , LY added a second EWR flight with the 789 and had mix 777/744/789 to JFK - two or three flights a day
Now for the winter schedule EWR will go to one flight but JFK will get double daily 744

BOS, will get 772 instead of 763
MIA and LAX will get 789 instead of 772
YYZ will get 789 instead of 763
And SFO was cancelled
 
Delta757MD88
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:23 pm

Given My best guess this will be served by the pmUA 772ERs. This might be the perfect flight for retrofitted 772ERs with Polaris.
Flown on: MD-88/90 DC-9 717 737-7/8/900, 757-2/300, 767-3/400 777-200/300ER 787-9, E145/170/175, CRJ-100/200/700/900, A319/320 A333 A350 Q300/400.
 
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STT757
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:26 pm

This is a great add by UA, more growth for IAD. Lately, UA has really been pioneering some exciting routes.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jayunited
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:46 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


I don't think we are anywhere near over capacity and I think UA's cautious approach of 3x weekly flights is the way to go. We saw UA use this same approach with our SFO-TLV route and that route has grown from 3x weekly 788, to daily 788, to 77W daily. this is a win for IAD I was hoping ORD would win out this round but hopefully by 2020-2021 UA will be operating ORD-TLV.

FlightLevel360 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Will this be a GE-90 or Pratt powered route, the FA groups merge in October making something like this easier for UA to move aircraft around.


It will be the IPTE configuration


Are you sure about that the GE powered 77Es would be better suited for this routes especially westbound if UA also intends on bulking out the cargo pits with cargo like we do on our other TLV flights.So far no as I know no final decision has been made on which 77E routes will see a swap from a Pratt to GE and vise versa GE to Pratt but what we do know it there will be some swapping of equipment within the 77E fleet.
 
Nola
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:53 pm

Will DL respond by adding capacity out of JFK or elsewhere? DL was to increase to 2x/daily JFK-TLV but never did. J fares seem consistently high and upgrades (at least on DL) doubtful, so perhaps there's room for more capacity? Or is DL just content to leave most of the non-NYC traffic to TLV with a competitor (UA) or flowing through CDG/AMS on their JV partners AF-KLM?
 
Nola
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:54 pm

Also note the friday service. They're not going after religious travelers but probably connecting travelers from east of the Mississippi and government/tech workers in the DC/VA area.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:02 pm

Wonderful to see IAD getting more UA service. Now, how about an announcement for the replacement of that awful "temporary" terminal?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
ADrum23
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:33 pm

Nola wrote:
Will DL respond by adding capacity out of JFK or elsewhere? DL was to increase to 2x/daily JFK-TLV but never did. J fares seem consistently high and upgrades (at least on DL) doubtful, so perhaps there's room for more capacity? Or is DL just content to leave most of the non-NYC traffic to TLV with a competitor (UA) or flowing through CDG/AMS on their JV partners AF-KLM?


They should re-add ATL-TLV
 
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STT757
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:27 pm

Do the times line up for MIA-TLV connections at IAD? The two new routes.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:30 pm

Nice to see UA add the ability to funnel more connections through IAD instead of delay-prone EWR. The market size of a 20-mile radius around EWR coupled with the hard limitations on the airport itself lead me to believe that there is a lot of untapped O&D potential at EWR that any IAD connections could help free up. IAD is still missing a lot of domestic connections that make ORD/EWR better Int'l gateways for a lot more North American cities but even this one flight helps.

With a slew of (better than nothing) CR2/E145s joining the fleet, I'd hope a few have a mission of providing more/new P2P service from smaller markets to IAD. The 100+ 737 varieties joining the fleet over the next few years should help smaller hubs like IAD boost service and connection options since EWR, ORD and SFO are pretty close to their physical limitations on gates or runway capacity.

IAD might not be pretty but that doesn't seem to stop people from flocking to LGA and connecting pax don't care how far from the city an airport is.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:59 pm

United1 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
With all this recent longhaul growth by UA, it shouldn't be too long before they overtake AA as the world's largest carrier again. It'll be like the 90s all over again, 1) UA, 2) AA, 3) DL.

Jeremy


Actually, I think UA is still quite significantly behind AA and DL because they're so much smaller on the domestic side. AA has 9-10 hubs (depending on how you count JFK); DL has 8-9 (depending on how you count BOS); UA has 7. UA also has nothing remotely close to DL's ATL hub or AA's DFW hub, and is much more weighted towards regional aircraft than AA or DL.

All that said, I'd argue UA is easily the most impressive of the US3 on the international front.


UA overtook DL in terms of ASMs and RSMs about a year ago. DL is still larger in terms of passenger carried and fleet size.

IAD to TLV came out of left field...


Delta is bigger in operating revenue, too, by $1 Billion 2Q18 and $700 mil in 1Q18.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:01 am

STT757 wrote:
Do the times line up for MIA-TLV connections at IAD? The two new routes.


No..MIA arrives and departs around the late afternoon bank.
 
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adambrau
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:20 am

Congratulations to UA on this new route to TLV. Just as a note I have a friend who works for the UN in Jerusalem and when he flew over to the States for a conference in Princeton he selected UA over LY. There is a lot of government and contractor and tech business flowing between the USA and Israel, our truest democratic ally in the Mid-East. Of the US3, good on UA to take advantage of a vibrant market. I know the whole TWA thing vis a vis AA but it sad AA is left out of the picture for whatever reason. What makes me most optimistic is the, FINALLY, UA Int'l route network which is so strong but dwindled since the route authority purchases from Pan Am and the turbulent last 20 years (including CO merger)...nice to see them leveraging top business/govt US hubs to Israel. EWR/SFO/IAD and possibly ORD in the future. Feels like the friendly skies is starting to realize it's potential.
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos