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RJNUT
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:51 am

I am becoming a big UA fan, based on recent actions on many fronts! and as mentioned above this will help to alleviate some of the misconnects thru EWR.
 
grbauc
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:53 am

good for UA. AA needs and should have a TLV flight not acceptable. DP has spent his time.
 
Judge1310
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:28 am

STT757 wrote:
Do the times line up for MIA-TLV connections at IAD? The two new routes.


The IAD-TLV flight will allow for all possible connections via IAD.
 
727200
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:45 am

Didn't see this one coming. I would have placed money on ORD before any other cities, but obviously the research at Willis said more potential in IAD.
I do question the lift out of EWR and IAD tho. To begin a route with a 777 is saying the untapped market is huge. That's almost 900 seats a day from an area less than 400 miles apart. Along with the SFO flight, that's 1100 seats in each direction. If it all succeeds, serious profit for UAL.
 
aircountry
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:56 am

What about Houston (IAH)? Is UA will add IAH to TLV in the future?
 
flyguy84
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:06 am

STT757 wrote:
Do the times line up for MIA-TLV connections at IAD? The two new routes.

Yes they do ... it’s a bit of a long layover on the Mia-iAd-tlv portion, however.
SFO
 
tlvflyguy
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:11 am

aircountry wrote:
What about Houston (IAH)? Is UA will add IAH to TLV in the future?

If IAD vs ORD was a tossup, no chance IAH gets in before ORD. Less R&D than ORD, and overflies ORD connections.
So I wouldn’t hold my breath.
 
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adamblang
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:48 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Well the number of weekly flights for star alliance alone between the US and tlv is 34... without factoring in LY's operations. That's a ton of flights! It seems like tlv is a small market to me; what is the average load factor on those flights?

This is anecdotal but my seasoned veteran colleagues, when talking about non-revving to/from TLV, just say "don't do it." And when I tried to do so, I found out why. It seems like every seat is sold every day. I'm planning on buying a ticket between somewhere in Europe and Tel Aviv when I visit again next year because I learned my lesson.

For TLV, you've gotta remember that it's the only airport in all of Israel with scheduled commercial international service. And for obviously reasons most of the country's business and cultural ties aren't to its immediate neighbors but Europe and the United States. Plus there's gobs of tourism and birthright traffic. If you're going to or from Israel, you're going via air and you're going via TLV.
 
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adamblang
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:51 am

flyguy84 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Do the times line up for MIA-TLV connections at IAD? The two new routes.

Yes they do ... it’s a bit of a long layover on the Mia-iAd-tlv portion, however.

The MIA-IAD flights are only currently planned for Dec. 24, 2018 through Jan. 6, 2019, no? Those end before TLV begins.
 
United1
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:10 am

adamblang wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Do the times line up for MIA-TLV connections at IAD? The two new routes.

Yes they do ... it’s a bit of a long layover on the Mia-iAd-tlv portion, however.

The MIA-IAD flights are only currently planned for Dec. 24, 2018 through Jan. 6, 2019, no? Those end before TLV begins.


Miami will launch Dec. 19, with UA offering one daily round-trip flight on an A319. UA adds a second daily flight on the route during the peak holiday travel period (Dec. 24 through Jan. 6.)
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
crownvic
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:15 am

Boof02671 wrote:
And yet AA couldn’t make PHL-TLV work, or so they said.


Would be a nice 787 route now.
 
boeing737max
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:48 am

STT757 wrote:
Will this be a GE-90 or Pratt powered route, the FA groups merge in October making something like this easier for UA to move aircraft around.

Just wondering since I wish I knew the answer! Why would the engine type of the 772 change the fa crew onboard? I understand that currently they are still seperated. However with sCO having selected the GE-90s and sUA with the Pratts, doesn’t UA already operate pratt powered sUA aircraft on south american routes via their sCO IAH hub?
 
boeing737max
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:51 am

AaronPGH wrote:
I flew EWR-TLV on the overnight flight last week, and the flight maybe had 4 total seats left open. Also, when I checked last, the round trip fares for economy were hovering over $3k. Seems like there is an appetite for more.

Didn’t UA also add another additional flight on EWR-TLV recently?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:01 am

evanb wrote:
So any US government traffic on the route will just be cannibalize from EWR-TLV.

That's one perspective: the other could be that every seat flown on this flight now frees up an EWR seat for higher-yielding O&D or shorter xfer.

We'd have to dig a lot deeper (into numbers that aren't likely to be made public) in order to really know... but the fact that they're choosing to launch it, indicates they're probably expecting more of the latter than the former.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
SCQ83
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:36 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


The Government of Israel is giving tax breaks and subsidies for carriers starting new routes to the country. That might explain the boom in new services to Tel Aviv and Eilat.

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/arti ... o-Tel-Aviv

adamblang wrote:
For TLV, you've gotta remember that it's the only airport in all of Israel with scheduled commercial international service


Eilat Ovda has international commercial service and with Ramon Airport opening soon this will likely increase. This winter Eilat will have flights to Amsterdam, Bergamo, Berlin–Schönefeld, Bratislava, Bremen, Bucharest, Budapest, Charleroi, Frankfurt, Gdańsk, Hahn, Helsinki, Karlsruhe/Baden-Baden, Kaunas, Kraków, London–Luton, Madrid, Moscow–Domodedovo, Moscow–Vnukovo, Munich, Paris–Charles de Gaulle, Paris–Orly, Poznań, Prague, Riga, Saint Petersburg, Stockholm–Arlanda, Vienna, Warsaw–Chopin, Warsaw–Modlin, Weeze and Zürich. So really quite a few routes already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovda_Airport
 
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STT757
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:20 am

boeing737max wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
I flew EWR-TLV on the overnight flight last week, and the flight maybe had 4 total seats left open. Also, when I checked last, the round trip fares for economy were hovering over $3k. Seems like there is an appetite for more.

Didn’t UA also add another additional flight on EWR-TLV recently?


CO , now UA, have been flying EWR-TLV 2x daily for 20 years. They upgraded one of the two daily 772s to the 77W.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
evomutant
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:02 am

grbauc wrote:
good for UA. AA needs and should have a TLV flight not acceptable. DP has spent his time.


Why is it "not acceptable"? They are a business.

They clearly feel they can make more money deploying their assets elsewhere.
 
tlvflyguy
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:31 am

STT757 wrote:
boeing737max wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
I flew EWR-TLV on the overnight flight last week, and the flight maybe had 4 total seats left open. Also, when I checked last, the round trip fares for economy were hovering over $3k. Seems like there is an appetite for more.

Didn’t UA also add another additional flight on EWR-TLV recently?


CO , now UA, have been flying EWR-TLV 2x daily for 20 years. They upgraded one of the two daily 772s to the 77W.

Sorry to nitpick, but the second flight was added in 2004 after 4.5 years of operating 1x daily.
 
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STT757
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:50 am

tlvflyguy wrote:
STT757 wrote:
boeing737max wrote:
Didn’t UA also add another additional flight on EWR-TLV recently?


CO , now UA, have been flying EWR-TLV 2x daily for 20 years. They upgraded one of the two daily 772s to the 77W.


Sorry to nitpick, but the second flight was added in 2004 after 4.5 years of operating 1x daily.


The second flight resumed in 2004, it was previously 2x daily and briefly dropped to 1x daily during the uprisings and start of the war.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79357
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jayunited
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:47 pm

evanb wrote:
So any US government traffic on the route will just be cannibalize from EWR-TLV.

Are we sure UA has any government traffic on any of their TLV routes?

LAX772LR wrote:
That's one perspective: the other could be that every seat flown on this flight now frees up an EWR seat for higher-yielding O&D or shorter xfer.
We'd have to dig a lot deeper (into numbers that aren't likely to be made public) in order to really know... but the fact that they're choosing to launch it, indicates they're probably expecting more of the latter than the former.


I'm not disagreeing with anything that you've posted I just noticed several people earlier in this tread have suggested UA is launching this route to divert connecting traffic from EWR and like you stated we need more information we need the PDEW.

There is no question this flight will free up seats on EWR-TLV but the issue I have is the flight only operates 3X weekly while UA is funneling a lot of connecting passengers into EWR and onward to TLV daily. For the remaining 4 days in the week this flight does not operate so all that connecting traffic on those days still has to go through EWR which is why I think we really need to see PDEW for the entire Virginia, DC catch basin before we conclude this route is specifically targeting connecting.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:04 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
This will likely help them funnel more of the TLV connecting traffic through IAD and focus EWR/TLV on O&D.


They are clearly going after some form of O&D on this route though. If it was going to be about connections, they would have opted for ORD.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Rdh3e
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:08 pm

jayunited wrote:
There is no question this flight will free up seats on EWR-TLV but the issue I have is the flight only operates 3X weekly while UA is funneling a lot of connecting passengers into EWR and onward to TLV daily. For the remaining 4 days in the week this flight does not operate so all that connecting traffic on those days still has to go through EWR which is why I think we really need to see PDEW for the entire Virginia, DC catch basin before we conclude this route is specifically targeting connecting.

But it may not be 3x weekly for long. Remember SFO-TLV was launched 3X weekly on the 787, then went daily 787 and now it's a daily 77W and that all happened within two years.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:25 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Do the times line up for MIA-TLV connections at IAD? The two new routes.


No..MIA arrives and departs around the late afternoon bank.


My bad...I see it's a 8AM departure and a 4PM arrival so it does line up with the TLV somewhat.
Departure layover is about 6 hours though.
 
evanb
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:36 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
evanb wrote:
So any US government traffic on the route will just be cannibalize from EWR-TLV.

That's one perspective: the other could be that every seat flown on this flight now frees up an EWR seat for higher-yielding O&D or shorter xfer.

We'd have to dig a lot deeper (into numbers that aren't likely to be made public) in order to really know... but the fact that they're choosing to launch it, indicates they're probably expecting more of the latter than the former.


Agreed, but the point that I was making was that starting IAD-TLV wasn't a necessary condition for getting the government contract. It won't affect future decision either. If DL, or even AA or B6 though codeshares, offer a better deal for 2019, it could well go to another airline irrespective of the new service. The GSA City Pair Program doesn't automatically follow the most direct routing.
 
evanb
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:42 pm

jayunited wrote:
evanb wrote:
So any US government traffic on the route will just be cannibalize from EWR-TLV.

Are we sure UA has any government traffic on any of their TLV routes?


Yes, there are 22 city pairs listed by the GSA between the US and Tel Aviv. 16 are contracted to UA and 6 to DL, meaning that any USG travel from these 16 (or 6) points must travel United (or Delta) to Tel Aviv. DL even have the city pair for SFO-TLV which shows the idiosyncrasies of the system and that starting IAD-TLV isn't, in any way, a necessary condition for UA to start IAD-TLV to get the contract (as already indicated, they already have the contract). The GSA makes the choices purely on the prices that the airlines bid.
 
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United787
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:11 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
This will likely help them funnel more of the TLV connecting traffic through IAD and focus EWR/TLV on O&D.


They are clearly going after some form of O&D on this route though. If it was going to be about connections, they would have opted for ORD.


Not if they are trying to build connections at IAD. ORD is fairly limited in growth right now because of gate constraints. That will change once the O'Hare 21 project starts to add more gates.

Also, IAD is better for connections from everywhere else in Florida besides MIA, such as FLL, PBI, TPA, areas with large Jewish populations. Also, places like RSW and MCO.
 
evanb
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:05 pm

United787 wrote:
Also, IAD is better for connections from everywhere else in Florida besides MIA, such as FLL, PBI, TPA, areas with large Jewish populations. Also, places like RSW and MCO.


Except their schedule to Florida from IAD is very underwhelming. They're only just restarting MIA (twice daily). They don't even fly to PBI and RSW. The only ones that have a decent schedule are TPA and MCO, which are not renowned for large Jewish populations. That's mostly on the east coast, e.g. Broward Country, Miami, South Palm Beach, West Palm Beach, which together have a Jewish population of about 650,000, compared to Tampa's 60,000.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:11 pm

United787 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
This will likely help them funnel more of the TLV connecting traffic through IAD and focus EWR/TLV on O&D.


They are clearly going after some form of O&D on this route though. If it was going to be about connections, they would have opted for ORD.


Not if they are trying to build connections at IAD. ORD is fairly limited in growth right now because of gate constraints. That will change once the O'Hare 21 project starts to add more gates.

Also, IAD is better for connections from everywhere else in Florida besides MIA, such as FLL, PBI, TPA, areas with large Jewish populations. Also, places like RSW and MCO.


That 6 hour departure layover at IAD is a killer though for South Florida residents. Would be faster for most to drive to MIA and fly direct. Also IAD-MIA will only be operating from a week before Christmas until the end of March, a fairly limited window. So I'm not quite sure how much MIA plays into TLV.
 
staralliance85
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:24 pm

[*]
SurfandSnow wrote:
Wonderful to see IAD getting more UA service. Now, how about an announcement for the replacement of that awful "temporary" terminal?




I agree. Sub-UA was going to build a brand new terminal back in the 2000's then 9/11 happened and bankruptcy. Then 10 years later the UA/CO merger happened making IAD The Underdog UA Hub to EWR. Realistically, UA cannot de-hub IAD in favor of EWR. EWR is maxed out and cannot grow anymore due to ATC and infrastructure factors. If there is a drop of rain EWR is on ATC Delays. EWR cannot be a reliable connection hub due to those restraints more of an O/D. UA realized that most of their customers at EWR are originating at EWR. I think UA is finally realizing IAD is a great secondary hub to EWR. This summer in particular loads are packed in and out of IAD. In terms of The "Temporary" C/D terminal, it is the biggest eye soar of any major international airport and way behind our times. UA doesn't want to spend any money on a new facility until they can be guaranteed of their long term success at IAD. They really should invest in a new facility.
brad Fitzpatrick
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:28 pm

United787 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
This will likely help them funnel more of the TLV connecting traffic through IAD and focus EWR/TLV on O&D.


They are clearly going after some form of O&D on this route though. If it was going to be about connections, they would have opted for ORD.


Not if they are trying to build connections at IAD. ORD is fairly limited in growth right now because of gate constraints. That will change once the O'Hare 21 project starts to add more gates.

Also, IAD is better for connections from everywhere else in Florida besides MIA, such as FLL, PBI, TPA, areas with large Jewish populations. Also, places like RSW and MCO.


I know they are trying to build IAD as a hub, but your argument only works for destinations that they currently fly to from ORD but not IAD. Flights to Florida are a lot more limited from IAD than they are from EWR so I dont know that IAD really brings much to the table.

UA could easily come up with a wide body capable gate at ORD if they wanted to even though it would take shuffling around.

They didnt pick this out of a hat and while there will certainly be some connections funneled through IAD, they are targeting some form of O&D on this one.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
gwrudolph
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:05 pm

boeing737max wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Will this be a GE-90 or Pratt powered route, the FA groups merge in October making something like this easier for UA to move aircraft around.

Just wondering since I wish I knew the answer! Why would the engine type of the 772 change the fa crew onboard? I understand that currently they are still seperated. However with sCO having selected the GE-90s and sUA with the Pratts, doesn’t UA already operate pratt powered sUA aircraft on south american routes via their sCO IAH hub?


While they will be able to more easily cross-utilize after October, it probably still isn't in their best interest to have a one-off GE90 777 route out of IAD when they have a large concentration of P&W 777s at IAD. Especially on a 3-day a week flight. You lose utilization efficiencies, you have to deal with parts, etc. Doesn't make sense for one route.

Besides, the GE90 777s have a range advantage over the P&W 777s, and unlike some other routes in their network, this IAD-TLV doesn't need that range. If I see any GE90 777 cross-utilization potential after October, it would be on some of the ORD routes that push the limits P&W 777s. For example, ORD-HKG
 
evanb
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:15 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
While they will be able to more easily cross-utilize after October, it probably still isn't in their best interest to have a one-off GE90 777 route out of IAD when they have a large concentration of P&W 777s at IAD. Especially on a 3-day a week flight. You lose utilization efficiencies, you have to deal with parts, etc. Doesn't make sense for one route.

Besides, the GE90 777s have a range advantage over the P&W 777s, and unlike some other routes in their network, this IAD-TLV doesn't need that range. If I see any GE90 777 cross-utilization potential after October, it would be on some of the ORD routes that push the limits P&W 777s. For example, ORD-HKG


Could easily rotate the aircraft in from IAH or EWR.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:12 pm

evanb wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
While they will be able to more easily cross-utilize after October, it probably still isn't in their best interest to have a one-off GE90 777 route out of IAD when they have a large concentration of P&W 777s at IAD. Especially on a 3-day a week flight. You lose utilization efficiencies, you have to deal with parts, etc. Doesn't make sense for one route.

Besides, the GE90 777s have a range advantage over the P&W 777s, and unlike some other routes in their network, this IAD-TLV doesn't need that range. If I see any GE90 777 cross-utilization potential after October, it would be on some of the ORD routes that push the limits P&W 777s. For example, ORD-HKG


Could easily rotate the aircraft in from IAH or EWR.


Ya, but again, for what advantage? The flight doesn't need the GE90 777. Others like ORD-HKG do. In general, the P&W 777s are just fine for all of the IAD missions they are using them on.
 
UA444
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:46 pm

The PW 772 is not the dog that people think it is and the GE 772 isn’t this beacon of engineering either.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:00 am

UA flew IAD-KWI on this exact aircraft not all that long ago. That route is a fair bit longer and had no problems.
 
UA857
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:43 am

Isn’t United cutting IAD?
 
Rdh3e
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:09 am

UA857 wrote:
Isn’t United cutting IAD?

No, and they have never said anything to that effect.
 
YYZflyboy
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:12 am

ADrum23 wrote:
What the?

IAD over ORD? Seriously? LY would be better for IAD-TLV.

I still can’t believe ORD has no flight to TLV.


Go look at the Star Alliance search engine and make a dummy schedule search. Look at how many 1-stop connections via AC (YYZ/YUL), TK (IST), LO (WAW), LH (MUC/FRA), LX (ZRH), OS (VIE), UA (EWR/IAD) as well a mix of *A carriers (i.e. UA+SN via BRU). Many have connections within 90-120 minutes too! That might have something to do with it!

Only a 49 minute connection in YUL too (UA4400 to AC82)!
 
YYZflyboy
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:34 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why so many tlv flights? Isn't there an overcapacity situation already?


in reality not so much, El Al reduced all its capacity in NYC at both airports, both JFK and EWR will all be operated by Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners instead of Boeing 747-400 / 777-200ER equipment


Well the number of weekly flights for star alliance alone between the US and tlv is 34... without factoring in LY's operations. That's a ton of flights! It seems like tlv is a small market to me; what is the average load factor on those flights?


More if you make it North America - TLV (Air Canada and their very quick connections via YUL and YYZ from many Eastern Seaboard/Midwest cities).
 
aa87
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:08 am

Long overdue and surprising UA waited this long especially given termination of ATL and PHL for several years now. I think clearly IAD much stronger route than ORD, though ORD is almost definitely the next new n/s route to TLV (race between UA and LY - though ORD may be good TLV re-entry for AA). Agree, not a lot of diplomatic traffic, but a ton of defense/business and IAd will now be first choice for all Israel tourists in 75-100 miles radius - that includes big Jewish communities in Baltimore and greater DC area, plus all other tourists in VA/DC/MD region. With those O&D groups, plus all the connecting pax, UA will easily fill a 3x triple 7, and I'm confident will have high load factors on daily (especially Friday nights when LY doesn't fly anywhere)..
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:08 am

YYZflyboy wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:

in reality not so much, El Al reduced all its capacity in NYC at both airports, both JFK and EWR will all be operated by Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners instead of Boeing 747-400 / 777-200ER equipment


Well the number of weekly flights for star alliance alone between the US and tlv is 34... without factoring in LY's operations. That's a ton of flights! It seems like tlv is a small market to me; what is the average load factor on those flights?


More if you make it North America - TLV (Air Canada and their very quick connections via YUL and YYZ from many Eastern Seaboard/Midwest cities).


Yeah, that's right. I forgot that AC also flies there.
To me, it will always be:
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- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
jayunited
Posts: 2860
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:07 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
UA flew IAD-KWI on this exact aircraft not all that long ago. That route is a fair bit longer and had no problems.


IAD-KWI is a poor choice of a comparison because it was almost never full on either leg IAD-KWI or KWI-IAD and as far as cargo goes if the government contractors had no cargo there was nothing but passengers and bags on those flights, most of the mail for the troops still was shipped to Germany then forwarded from FRA or MUC to Ramstein AFB. The issue is going to be Westbound especially if UA achieves a decent load factor and is able to secure cargo contracts for this route. People who are familiar with UA's current routes out of TLV know that although it is not the norm there are days when TLV-EWR on the 77E (not the 77W) is weight restricted because we have a full passenger cabin and 40,000 pounds or more of freight staged for the flight. If UA secures cargo contracts for TLV-IAD the PW engined 77Es may not be able to take all the cargo or UA may have to limit the amount of cargo space available and lets not forget UA is adding seats to the 77E fleet as they reconfigure and install the new Polaris seats.

I think a better comparison would be UA's former DXB-IAD route and that route was a nightmare because almost weekly we were leaving cargo behind, non revs behind and in some cases we even had to leave revenue passengers behind do to weight restrictions. I don't think TLV-IAD will ever get that bad but knowing the amount of cargo UA already ships out of TLV, I think UA needs to put the GE 77E on this route especially if they want this fight go out with a full belly.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3574
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:53 pm

I suspect that this will be a pmCO frame on days it operates, rotating off from UA84/5 in TLV. However, when the B78Js arrive, I expect that the B772 (pmCO) flight will go to a B78J to increase capacity by 51 seats per day (the other flight is a 376-seat B77W).
 
blue100
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:58 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:27 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I suspect that this will be a pmCO frame on days it operates, rotating off from UA84/5 in TLV. However, when the B78Js arrive, I expect that the B772 (pmCO) flight will go to a B78J to increase capacity by 51 seats per day (the other flight is a 376-seat B77W).


I don't think that will be possible based on UAs current schedule out of TLV. The 77E out of EWR is the day time flight out of TLV. I believe it departs around 12:15pm? The IAD flight will arrive late afternoon and depart after midnight, which is in line with the evening flights to EWR and SFO (both 77W) flights.
 
amirs
Posts: 1248
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:20 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I suspect that this will be a pmCO frame on days it operates, rotating off from UA84/5 in TLV. However, when the B78Js arrive, I expect that the B772 (pmCO) flight will go to a B78J to increase capacity by 51 seats per day (the other flight is a 376-seat B77W).

Can 78J do EWR - TLV without restrictions ?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:07 pm

tpaewr wrote:
...contrary to a-net mythology EWR is New York’s biggest hub.


I think you mean "EWR is New Jersey's biggest hub." Otherwise, I would have to consider you geographically challenged... ;)


adambrau wrote:
There is a lot of government and contractor and tech business flowing between the USA and Israel, our truest democratic ally in the Mid-East.


Considering the untold billions of dollars we send them every year, they should be.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:27 pm

jayunited wrote:
I think a better comparison would be UA's former DXB-IAD route and that route was a nightmare because almost weekly we were leaving cargo behind, non revs behind and in some cases we even had to leave revenue passengers behind do to weight restrictions.


That was the airline version of "nightmare". For DXB ATC, #975 (DXB-IAD) was sometimes a major hassle to accommodate. In the warmer months the UA birds had lots of restrictions that may have been unique to certain dispatchers or flight crews or simply a limitation on every plane. Many times the crew could not accept any amount of tailwind component and needed the longer of the two runways. The most efficient operation at DXB was to land 30L(longer) and depart 30R (shorter) with up to a 10kt tailwind. If UA needed a headwind AND the longer runway, they had to depart 12R which would stop arrivals for an extended period of time and midnight-ish at DXB was never a slow period for arrivals so UA would many times take a substantial delay.

An hour delay was not uncommon when UA could not accept the dedicated departure runway/direction. Meanwhile, I can't recall the DL 77L (to ATL) needing ever anything out of the ordinary.
 
iadbudd
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:36 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:33 pm

With the 5:50am arrival into IAD all connecting passengers would have to clear CBP throught the main terminal since the C midfield FIS facility does not open untill 8am. It used to open at 6am, but changed a year or so ago since only UA 860 GRU-IAD and SA arrive at that time. It makes it a lot more difficult and time consuming for passengers connecting onto the 8:30am UA departure bank.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3574
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:31 pm

amirs wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
I suspect that this will be a pmCO frame on days it operates, rotating off from UA84/5 in TLV. However, when the B78Js arrive, I expect that the B772 (pmCO) flight will go to a B78J to increase capacity by 51 seats per day (the other flight is a 376-seat B77W).

Can 78J do EWR - TLV without restrictions ?


The great distance is 4950 nmi. DL does TLV-JFK with a 242t A330-300 year-round, and I'm not sure that there are any restrictions on that. As such, with an advertised distance of 6430 nmi at 330 passengers (UA's 78Js will have 318 seats), I don't see why this would be restricted even in winter, given that TLV usually departs on Runway 26.

Now, on IAD-TLV, I could see a restriction there during the winter (that's 5140 nmi), especially with an airport like CLT as the filed alternate. At least with EWR, with IAD as the filed alternate, I don't see a restriction.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2860
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA announces IAD-TLV

Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:47 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
That was the airline version of "nightmare". For DXB ATC, #975 (DXB-IAD) was sometimes a major hassle to accommodate. In the warmer months the UA birds had lots of restrictions that may have been unique to certain dispatchers or flight crews or simply a limitation on every plane. Many times the crew could not accept any amount of tailwind component and needed the longer of the two runways. The most efficient operation at DXB was to land 30L(longer) and depart 30R (shorter) with up to a 10kt tailwind. If UA needed a headwind AND the longer runway, they had to depart 12R which would stop arrivals for an extended period of time and midnight-ish at DXB was never a slow period for arrivals so UA would many times take a substantial delay.

An hour delay was not uncommon when UA could not accept the dedicated departure runway/direction. Meanwhile, I can't recall the DL 77L (to ATL) needing ever anything out of the ordinary.


I see you really went into detail but that segment alone was a headache for everyone involved in working the flight. I think everyone here at Willis and at DXB was probably like Thank God when UA announced they were cutting IAD-DXB-IAD. All the restrictions do to the type of equipment we were using made this flight more trouble than it was worth. It wouldn't surprise me if UA didn't make a dime on the DXB-IAD leg just because of all the restrictions, delays, fuel wasted sitting on the ground for over an hour, and sometimes cancellations because ATC couldn't accommodate us in a timely manner and the crew timed out. Thank God that flight no longer exists, if UA ever does go back to DXB hopefully it will be from EWR utilizing a 789.

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