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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:59 am

JOYA380B747 wrote:

That actually worked thanks!


Booked 5 star hotels, amazon vouchers and bought a lot of s*** that I do not need. Guess this was really God's way of making me actually liquidate the points.

I am not able to find that setting! I'm using Chrome on Mac
 
behramjee
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:00 am

lightsaber wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
EK will gladly accept all those 9W pilots.

I'm sure the 777 pilots have been made offers by EK.

Pilots are in demand. They will be enticed away. Jet's fate is no longer in the hands of Goyal or a bank. The leasing companies and competition know their best option is elsewhere.

Lightsaber


You forgot B777 offers by EK and B737NG offers from FZ ;)

Now this issue the Indian Congress Party has taken objection to https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 505704.cms
 
behramjee
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:08 am

edealinfo wrote:
[u]Banks to take control of Jet Airways cockpit; lenders to infuse Rs 1,200 cr
Naresh Goyal, nominees to step down;
[/u]


https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 021_1.html

Other takeaways:

1. "It’s important to have a resolution process by end of this month because if there’s no agreement by April 1 (180 days from January 1), Jet Airways will have to be declared a Non-Performing Account (NPA)."

2 "According to the plan, the airline will issue additional 114 million equity shares. After the restructuring, the lenders’ consortium led by the SBI, along with national sovereign fund National Infrastructure Investment Fund (NIIF) will hold around 51 per cent stake in the airline."


this is not definite and still in the "proposal stages"
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:10 am

behramjee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
[u]Banks to take control of Jet Airways cockpit; lenders to infuse Rs 1,200 cr
Naresh Goyal, nominees to step down;
[/u]


https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 021_1.html



this is not definite and still in the "proposal stages"


Odd that Business Standard would state "Banks to take control of Jet Airways cockpit" in the title of the news article making it sound as fact.
 
blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:12 am

If banks go ahead with the proposal, EY's stake will fall to less than 10%!
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:12 am

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:

Read my comment carefully. List the names of carriers that you find in my comment

Spicejet, Air India Express, GoAir , and Air India
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:18 am

blrsea wrote:
If banks go ahead with the proposal, EY's stake will fall to less than 10%!


That would mean Goyal's holding would be 20%. He will also not be subject to Etihad's condition that he cannot increase his stake beyond 22% "in perpetuity". Once Jet turns around, in the future, he can increase his stake and gain control, LEGALLY. Finally, he doesn't have to invest a dime now. The banks are taking all the risk. Pretty good deal if you ask me given the condition of the airline. He should take the deal and resign from the board (along with his nominees) while the deal is on the table.

As much as one may detest Goyal, he didn't make out to shabby.
Last edited by edealinfo on Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:21 am

edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Read my comment carefully. List the names of carriers that you find in my comment

Spicejet, Air India Express, GoAir , and Air India

Where did I mention those names? And since when did Air India become a private carrier?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:23 am

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:

Spicejet, Air India Express, GoAir , and Air India

Where did I mention those names? And since when did Air India become a private carrier?

So, according to you, what are the 4 carriers?
 
VTORD
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:28 am

edealinfo wrote:
So, according to you, what are the 4 carriers?

Has to be SpiceJet, Indigo, Vistara and GoAir doesn't it? AirAsia being under investigation probably not included.
 
JOYA380B747
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:15 am

unrave wrote:
I am not able to find that setting! I'm using Chrome on Mac


Look for "Send a "Do Not Track" request with your browsing traffic" and turn it off in Chrome settings. Cheers.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:54 am

Fair to say NG at this point is ensuring that he doesn't have a Mallya like fate.

Saving the airline is last on his priority list.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:37 am

VTORD wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
So, according to you, what are the 4 carriers?

Has to be SpiceJet, Indigo, Vistara and GoAir doesn't it? AirAsia being under investigation probably not included.


If one just bothered to sift through the articles on the previous page of this thread, they'd get some idea..

"..representatives of Air India, SpiceJet, GoAir and IndiGo attended the meeting on Wednesday."
 
CWL757
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:50 am

Rumours circulating that a 9W A332 has been impounded in MAN.
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:23 am

Impeccable logic from GoI regarding Jet's slots.

Ask other companies to take on aircraft and crew to back-fill Jet's withdrawn capacity,but if Jet can recover and provide that capacity again,you have to give it up. Nothing about what everybody else can do with the now surplus capacity that they have.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:26 am

JOYA380B747 wrote:
unrave wrote:
I am not able to find that setting! I'm using Chrome on Mac


Look for "Send a "Do Not Track" request with your browsing traffic" and turn it off in Chrome settings. Cheers.

Was able to get it to work and redeem the last 5k JP miles in my account. Thanks!
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 am

CWL757 wrote:
Rumours circulating that a 9W A332 has been impounded in MAN.



Manchester Airport website shows 9W 129 as departing at 1005, 30 minutes late. Seems rumour only.
 
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HeyTK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:48 am

How about the Amsterdam slots? Jet is very present in Amsterdam. Its normal to see 3 B777 lined up.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:45 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
Impeccable logic from GoI regarding Jet's slots.

Ask other companies to take on aircraft and crew to back-fill Jet's withdrawn capacity,but if Jet can recover and provide that capacity again,you have to give it up. Nothing about what everybody else can do with the now surplus capacity that they have.

That’s the kind of logic that SBI will use to “rescue” Jet. Pity the taxpayer
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:27 pm

unrave wrote:
It appears that many of the slots held by Jet will be given to other airlines. Apparently government officials met with representatives from other 4 private carriers to determine how many planes could be brought in by them.

I wish Vistara could leverage its relationship with SQ to bring in as many planes as needed to grab the available Mumbai and New Delhi slots.... more so with Mumbai slots because like LHR, that could be very,very valuable. I am certain that Indigo is making full fledged plans but limited by the number of available pilots and SpicreJet is working on getting Jet Airways aircraft and pilots to also grab those slots. air Asia India should draw on the surplus availability from its parent. The Tatas should open the spigot to ensure that Asiaasia and vistara come out ahead of Indigo and SpiceJet. This would be a much better approach than taking over Jet which would mean they would be saddled with an unsustainable workforce. The battle for Mumbai slots could be as keenly observed as it is for the “Jet Airways reports cash running out” thread,
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised is SBI came up with an irrrational line of thinking to “rescue” Jet.
They are already pitching for the sunk cost theory on the grounds that in a service industry the recovery in bankruptcy is minuscule, which while true doesn’t address the old adage of “don’t throw good money after bad”

Pity the taxpayer[/quote]
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:38 pm

edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:
It appears that many of the slots held by Jet will be given to other airlines. Apparently government officials met with representatives from other 4 private carriers to determine how many planes could be brought in by them.

I wish Vistara could leverage its relationship with SQ to bring in as many planes as needed to grab the available Mumbai and New Delhi slots.... more so with Mumbai slots because like LHR, that could be very,very valuable. I am certain that Indigo is making full fledged plans but limited by the number of available pilots and SpicreJet is working on getting Jet Airways aircraft and pilots to also grab those slots. air Asia India should draw on the surplus availability from its parent. The Tatas should open the spigot to ensure that Asiaasia and vistara come out ahead of Indigo and SpiceJet. This would be a much better approach than taking over Jet which would mean they would be saddled with an unsustainable workforce. The battle for Mumbai slots could be as keenly observed as it is for the “Jet Airways reports cash running out” thread,


SQ lite aka MI is suffering from MAX groundings as well. So planes will not be easy to come by. I am sure lessors around the world are getting calls and inquiries from India
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:05 pm

avier wrote:
VTORD wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
So, according to you, what are the 4 carriers?

Has to be SpiceJet, Indigo, Vistara and GoAir doesn't it? AirAsia being under investigation probably not included.


If one just bothered to sift through the articles on the previous page of this thread, they'd get some idea..

"..representatives of Air India, SpiceJet, GoAir and IndiGo attended the meeting on Wednesday."

I didn’t have to bother to go through the past posts because I correctly inferred, by asking the question, why weren’t vistara and Air Asia at the table
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:19 pm

While people are trying to figure out what to do next, circumstances are removing the parts needed in a recovery (planes, pilots, people with money willing to part with ie Etihad and customer goodwill). I think they waited to long. Goyal will end up with 100% of 0 value at least that seems to make him happy though, so there is that.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:21 pm

blrsea wrote:
Plans to distribute 9W's BOM slots?
In a tweet, the ministry Wednesday said it was working with all airlines to provide sufficient capacity...

Govt looks at providing Jet Airways’ unused airport slots to other domestic airlines


The Government thinks that 9W getting grounded will result in insufficient 'capacity'? Why?

Here's a thought. India's domestic market actually suffers from overcapacity. And a lot of that capacity was added in recent years, a lot of it was added OUTSIDE of the Metro routes and a lot of it was in the LCC category.

How big a dent does 9W going under make? In the larger scheme of things??

IMO, There WILL be sufficient seats on practically every route out of BOM, too. Only they won't be sold for Rs 500! ;)

As populist as it can get!
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:59 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
While people are trying to figure out what to do next, circumstances are removing the parts needed in a recovery (planes, pilots, people with money willing to part with ie Etihad and customer goodwill). I think they waited to long. Goyal will end up with 100% of 0 value at least that seems to make him happy though, so there is that.


IMO, while people are trying to figure out what to do next, circumstances are trimming the organisation down to size (Management (starting with NaGo), planes, crew, stations and frequencies, slots, etc). IF at all the TATA group takes over (for example) they won't need a 100 strong fleet, just a BOM/DEL -centric FSC operation to complement their own DEL oriented network. Same thing if QR takes over.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:07 pm

Irrespective of whether the airline survives in some form or goes bust, there is going to be a significant reduction to the 225 MAX on order
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:24 pm

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ans-rescue

In terms of assets...9W owns all 10 of its B77Ws, but only 4 A332s (counting the one leased to JU), 2 B738s, and 1 B739 (non-ER). Their debt is now INRs 8200 crore (or USD$1.6 billion). I could see an auction for those B77Ws and three A332s, as those could get about $500M (about INRs 2730 crore) total.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
While people are trying to figure out what to do next, circumstances are removing the parts needed in a recovery (planes, pilots, people with money willing to part with ie Etihad and customer goodwill). I think they waited to long. Goyal will end up with 100% of 0 value at least that seems to make him happy though, so there is that.

As I posted above, this is happening. Soon they will be down to 35 aircraft. As I posted links above, 200 pilots have already left. We know over 400 pilots interviewed with SpiceJet. We know Indigo has made a generous offer too and is actively recruiting.

Etihad has obviously internally dropped the value of acquiring Jet.

We need information on how Jet will be saved soon or the buyer will overpay for very little.


Sadly, at this point, at best, only about 6,000 jobs could be saved at Jet. For most Jet employees, if they can secure alternative employment, they should.

What hasn't been discussed is how the competition will be tougher due to the Jet issues.

Indigo: Increased revenue despite reduced flights due to their pilot shortage. They've obviously still recruiting and training.

SpiceJet: Is looking for short term MAX replacement as well as quite the opportunity to acquire a number of aircraft quickly.

GoAir:. Is making more money and will be far healthier.

Air India:. I estimate will make a little profit this quarter. :faint:

Others will so better, but does not have a long term competitive impact.

Lightsaber
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:20 pm

1. Why has Jet not sold its LHR slots as that could generate short term cash...,,or did Jet lease all their LHR slots from Etihad?

2. why does SBI or the Government think they can turn around Jet now that it will have a bloated staff to aircraft ratio making it uncompetitive in the marketplace

3. I agree that if Jet fails, it may be good for the marketplace (strengthening other carriers and bringing discipline to capacity) but unfortunately it would be sad for its employees.

4. ironically, the Congress raising a stink about public funds being used to support a private enterprise is actually a good thing though the Congress intent is not for market principles but solely to cast Modi in a bad light. Anyway, if Congress does to Goyal what they did to ANIL Ambani (turn on a major political contributor), India might actually be better off.

5. can Jet legally lay-off employees (say anything over 6,000 employees) or are they constrained by labor laws in India?

6. Isn’t Goair also having its own share of problems regarding grounded MAX, and regular aircraft, from pilot shortage?

7. Why is the government making a noise about high air fares. Is airlines aren’t allowed to charge high last minute fares, they would likely meet the same fate as Jet, which the government is trying to avoid. Why is the government going with faulty reasoning?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:48 pm

edealinfo wrote:
1. Why has Jet not sold its LHR slots as that could generate short term cash...,,or did Jet lease all their LHR slots from Etihad?

2. why does SBI or the Government think they can turn around Jet now that it will have a bloated staff to aircraft ratio making it uncompetitive in the marketplace

3. I agree that if Jet fails, it may be good for the marketplace (strengthening other carriers and bringing discipline to capacity) but unfortunately it would be sad for its employees.

4. ironically, the Congress raising a stink about public funds being used to support a private enterprise is actually a good thing though the Congress intent is not for market principles but solely to cast Modi in a bad light. Anyway, if Congress does to Goyal what they did to ANIL Ambani (turn on a major political contributor), India might actually be better off.

5. can Jet legally lay-off employees (say anything over 6,000 employees) or are they constrained by labor laws in India?

6. Isn’t Goair also having its own share of problems regarding grounded MAX, and regular aircraft, from pilot shortage?

7. Why is the government making a noise about high air fares. Is airlines aren’t allowed to charge high last minute fares, they would likely meet the same fate as Jet, which the government is trying to avoid. Why is the government going with faulty reasoning?

1. EY owns the LHR slots. They were sold in a prior bailout.

2. The business case requires mass layoffs.

3. It will be sad for the employees.

4. I'll pass on commenting on India elections.

5. If Jet cannot downsize, there is no rescue.

6. GoAir flies Pratt NEOs, not MAXs.

7. This is an election, so everything is a crisis, vote for us. ;) Airlines had to dump last minute fares to sell for about 9 months. Now true willing last minute customers must pay a reasonable amount of money. This shows India was oversupplied by 8% to 10%. Note:. The market is growing quickly, but the airlines need last minute premium fares. This implies we will be oversupplied again in 6 to 18 months. In other words, there will be over supply again only favoring the lowest cost operators.

Note:. The length of elevated last minute fares will depend on how many of Jet's aircraft are returned to operation within India and on what timeline.

Lightsaber
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:02 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
blrsea wrote:
Plans to distribute 9W's BOM slots?
In a tweet, the ministry Wednesday said it was working with all airlines to provide sufficient capacity...

Govt looks at providing Jet Airways’ unused airport slots to other domestic airlines


The Government thinks that 9W getting grounded will result in insufficient 'capacity'? Why?

Here's a thought. India's domestic market actually suffers from overcapacity. And a lot of that capacity was added in recent years, a lot of it was added OUTSIDE of the Metro routes and a lot of it was in the LCC category.

How big a dent does 9W going under make? In the larger scheme of things??

IMO, There WILL be sufficient seats on practically every route out of BOM, too. Only they won't be sold for Rs 500! ;)

As populist as it can get!

Nitpick:. India overall is now a little short of capacity. In my above post I speculate the current normal fares will last 6 to 18 months.

At that point, SpiceJet, Indigo, and GoAir expansion will result in a return to oversupply.

In that time, Indigo will purchase finance many (most?) NEOs, in particular A321s. If Jet survives, time will be cut until back to an oversupplied condition.

The oversupply wasn't much. Less than 7% (about what Jet cut). In fact, I speculate the market is undersupplied about 5% today. No reference, that is my best guess. Some will be handled by increased fares rationalizing the market. Some by higher load factors (in particular on Indigo).

SpiceJet was selling out (94% load factors do not leave much if any unmet demand). So they only benefit from higher fares.

AI benefits by higher fares and load factor.

Indigo's load factor were going low. So suddenly spare seats are sold at a nice premium. This is why I think they will benefit the most.

For Vistara and AirAsia, they had better reorganize while they can. When the high fares end, they will be larger airlines losing money. They have the seats available today, but they had better realize their new customers won't be loyal.

The only question is how many 737NGs SpiceJet takes on and how many pilots have already left. How many pilots did Jet have in September 2018 anyway?

Lightsaber
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
blrsea wrote:


The Government thinks that 9W getting grounded will result in insufficient 'capacity'? Why?

Here's a thought. India's domestic market actually suffers from overcapacity. And a lot of that capacity was added in recent years, a lot of it was added OUTSIDE of the Metro routes and a lot of it was in the LCC category.

How big a dent does 9W going under make? In the larger scheme of things??

IMO, There WILL be sufficient seats on practically every route out of BOM, too. Only they won't be sold for Rs 500! ;)

As populist as it can get!

Nitpick:. India overall is now a little short of capacity. In my above post I speculate the current normal fares will last 6 to 18 months.

At that point, SpiceJet, Indigo, and GoAir expansion will result in a return to oversupply.

In that time, Indigo will purchase finance many (most?) NEOs, in particular A321s. If Jet survives, time will be cut until back to an oversupplied condition.

The oversupply wasn't much. Less than 7% (about what Jet cut). In fact, I speculate the market is undersupplied about 5% today. No reference, that is my best guess. Some will be handled by increased fares rationalizing the market. Some by higher load factors (in particular on Indigo).

SpiceJet was selling out (94% load factors do not leave much if any unmet demand). So they only benefit from higher fares.

AI benefits by higher fares and load factor.

Indigo's load factor were going low. So suddenly spare seats are sold at a nice premium. This is why I think they will benefit the most.

For Vistara and AirAsia, they had better reorganize while they can. When the high fares end, they will be larger airlines losing money. They have the seats available today, but they had better realize their new customers won't be loyal.

The only question is how many 737NGs SpiceJet takes on and how many pilots have already left. How many pilots did Jet have in September 2018 anyway?

Lightsaber

The overarching theme of your comments is that a potential Jet demise may not impact India from a business perspective. Heck, it actually may be good. But I do understand this is based on business rationality without factoring the political implications of potential Jet job losses.

Separately, how can Modi justify a bank rescue if it also means axing over 15k jobs so that Jet is lean?

Also, could a re-engineered Jet include current long haul, plus another 40planes, at most, for domestic to sustain the long haul and to retain slots at key metros.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:23 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/76487-jet-airways-plunges-deeper-into-crisis-as-govt-plans-rescue

In terms of assets...9W owns all 10 of its B77Ws, but only 4 A332s (counting the one leased to JU), 2 B738s, and 1 B739 (non-ER). Their debt is now INRs 8200 crore (or USD$1.6 billion). I could see an auction for those B77Ws and three A332s, as those could get about $500M (about INRs 2730 crore) total.

The 8200 crore is the amount owed just to financial creditors. They are likely to be in arrears of several hundred crore in the form of unpaid salaries, leases among other things.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:43 am

Those B77W will come in handy for some airlines who are looking for interim expansion or cheap airframes, good time to on used market before EK flood it with hundreds. Those A332 most probably a tough sell. B737NG will be in demand, charter airline, airlines looking for interim lift due to MAX grounding, new start up etc.
 
blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:30 am

As per earlier reports, Jet owes a lot to AAI and pubic sector fuel suppliers too. They are probably not making a noise as govt might have asked them to help Jet along.

Meanwhile Indigo apparently hired around 100 Jet pilots

Jet Turbulence: IndiGo poaches over 100 pilots

MUMBAI: IndiGoNSE 7.34 % is hiring more than 100 Boeing 737 commander level pilots, primarily those exiting Jet AirwaysNSE -4.67 %, as the country’s biggest airline looks to overcome a flying-crew shortage and establish its dominance amid an exodus of personnel from the financially-stressed airline.

A top industry source aware of IndiGo’s hiring plans said that it would take six months to train the Boeing pilots so that they could fly A320s, an aircraft type IndiGo operates.
...
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:00 am

How does this all make sense from Goyal’s pov. He is acting like he dosen’t own the shares we think he has. Because then he would want to maintain shareholder value. It is like the only thing he has is his control of jet.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:20 am

blrsea wrote:
As per earlier reports, Jet owes a lot to AAI and pubic sector fuel suppliers too. They are probably not making a noise as govt might have asked them to help Jet along.

Meanwhile Indigo apparently hired around 100 Jet pilots


I find the following statement in the article hard to believe.

"It may take IndiGo six months to train the Boeing pilots to fly the Airbus A320 planes"

Lightsaber, could you please let us know what is the average time for a Bobeing 737 pilot to be trained on an Airbus A320? Presumably, during this training period, Indigo will be paying the pilots a salary as well as covering their training cost, correct? Will Indigo seek to recoup the training cost, once the pilots start flying?

Also, is it true that the costs of an expat pilot are double that of a domestic pilot? The article also states that the average pilot salary for the 737 is $13,000 per month. Is this for a domestic or an expat pilot?

If most of Jet pilots are lured by Spicejet and Indigo.....how many will remain with Jet? Does anyone have the rough number of count of Jet pilots in Jan 2019 and the numbers that have been lured by competitors? Obviously, it will be very hard for Jet to backfill the pilots that have left/are leaving and thefore, will not be able to scale up, even if banks propose a rescue. So, how can Jet be competitive.

My recommendation: The government should propose an orderly wind down of Jet and propose financing till June 2019. During the period, the government should allow competitors to use Jet's slots provided they also hire Jet staff as the competitors scale up.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:29 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
How does this all make sense from Goyal’s pov. He is acting like he dosen’t own the shares we think he has. Because then he would want to maintain shareholder value. It is like the only thing he has is his control of jet.


Playing a dangerous game. Assuming at election time, the Government will not Jet fall and that the timing of the crisis is God's way of saying that God is on his side. If there is a government rescue here is how he benefits, specifically:

a) The banks put in the cash and he puts in none
b) the banks take additional risk and he takes none more
c) His stake goes down but he is not precluded for buying more equity and taking back control when the time is right in the future
d) The stake in jet privilege is untouched.

What he loses is his board seats and Chairmanship. As someone who has nurtured his baby for 25 years, this is a big personal and emotional blow. That's a problem with many family owned business that is endemic in India.

He loved the limelight, publicity, power, and being the "chacha" to the 20K employees. I can't blame him from not wanting to give that up without a fight. Once you get caught up in the limelight, it is hard to disassociate from it.

Ironically, if the Congress were in power, rather than the BJP, he could have had his cake and eaten it.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:45 am

Additional flight cancellations for march 21:
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 601571.ece

https://centreforaviation.com/news/jet- ... 019-889588

Bank association states that banks should not become owners of the airline (My bet is that Indigo somehow influenced them. I can't imagine Indigo taking a back seat. they are probably working in the background to lobby various parties to ensure that no support structures prop jet up)

http://www.uniindia.com/banks-should-no ... 35864.html
 
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unrave
Posts: 2682
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:19 am

Meanwhile QR has denied that it was in talks with NG
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 590_1.html
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:52 am

Jet Turbulence: IndiGo poaches over 100 pilots

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 515649.cms
 
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Spiderguy252
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:01 am

IMO it's game over. 9W is finished

It was fun while it lasted, but March 31 could very likely see the final flight.

RIP Jet Airways 1993 - 2019.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:14 am

Would be interesting to see how much of 6E ends up in T3 at DEL, and T2 at BOM.

The internationals are flying out of there already.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:21 am

Lenders will meet today to decide on alternatives for Naresh Goyal.
Will also begin hunting for new management for 9W-
Ex- AI CMD's, Ministry Officials, Former CEO's of private airlines in the fray -per reports.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:10 pm

Hmm, looks like Jet needs a suitor with pretty long pockets ...

Jet Airways needs around Rs 10,000 crore worth of infusion: Industry insiders

NEW DELHI/MUMBAI: A proposed infusion of Rs 1,000 crore into Jet AirwaysNSE 3.43 % may prove to be "too little too late" to save the airline as it might require at least Rs 10,000 crore to stay afloat, industry observers said on Friday.

"The airline alone has estimated advance ticket sales of Rs 1,500-2,000 crore. There are total payables and debt of Rs 25,000 crore. Anything short of Rs 10,000 crore might not have a dent on the current situation that the airline is going through," said an industry source.
..

"This (Rs 1,000 crore) amount is not enough even to clear salaries and refund passengers for cancelled tickets," said another sectoral expert.
...
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:54 pm

₹10k crs for an airline with 40 odd planes with 60% on lease and employees jumping ship.....one has to be a fool to buy into Jet at this point.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:22 pm

sibibom wrote:
₹10k crs for an airline with 40 odd planes with 60% on lease and employees jumping ship.....one has to be a fool to buy into Jet at this point.


That's roughly 1.5 billion USD, for those of us less knowledgeable about Indian numbering system, correct?

With backbone of the fleet being leased planes under repossession risk, most assets apparently collateralized, customers frustrated with cancellations, employees running for exits, etc... Indeed, sounds expensive.

Also, Swissair story teaches us, once enough customers are fed up with loss of service, reviving existing structure might be useless from branding viewpoint.
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 399
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:36 pm

No wonder EY balked, from the figures in this thread I added up about a 1/3-1/2 of that needed number as their current investment.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:44 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
That's roughly 1.5 billion USD, for those of us less knowledgeable about Indian numbering system, correct?

Yes, 1 crore = 10 million; 1 USD ~ 70 INR

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