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edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:20 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
Always interesting to read 2 news articles and all the interpretations of them.

There are ,however,2 items which appear to have fallen off the radar.

First,one of the regulators ( ?SEBI ) changed their ruling so that only financial institutions could take a stake of >25% in a company without making an open offer to all shareholders. To avoid this ball and chain, the banks will need to find 2 new investors to avoid them having to do this. If the banks sell their holding to, e g Tata, then I have little doubt that Etihad will commence legal action to enforce the purchase of their shares, if only as a negotiating ploy.

More interesting was the announcement some weeks ago that 9W had defaulted on an interest payment to HSBC-Abu Dhabi. Although the payment is guaranteed by EY, one has to wonder where legal jurisdiction lies. As the announcement appeared to include HSBC - no Abu Dhabi - it could lie in India, Abu Dhabi or England. If either of the latter two, and EY chose to enforce their rights ,it could become very messy. 9W flying to AUH or LHR/MAN could become problematic.

To your 2 points.
1. aren’t banks financial institutions? If so, per what you stated they could hold above 25 percent. Secondly, it is a consortium of banks, not a single bank that would convert debt to shares.
2. Yes, Jet defaulted on payment (if interest???? Or principal???? , or both???) to HSBC which was guaranteed by Etihad. The next payment is due on March 27. as an equity holder, what “rights” can Etihad enforce? As far as I recall, there are no rights or have you just made them up?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:37 pm

Bloomberg provides additional details.
Banks to put Jet on the block on APRIL 9 with bids due by April 30. Etihad and even Goyal are allowed to bid. It is great that the government has a plan for quick resolution.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:37 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
There are ,however,2 items which appear to have fallen off the radar.

First, one of the regulators ( ?SEBI ) changed their ruling so that only financial institutions could take a stake of >25% in a company without making an open offer to all shareholders. To avoid this ball and chain, the banks will need to find 2 new investors to avoid them having to do this. If the banks sell their holding to, e g Tata, then I have little doubt that Etihad will commence legal action to enforce the purchase of their shares, if only as a negotiating ploy.

More interesting was the announcement some weeks ago that 9W had defaulted on an interest payment to HSBC-Abu Dhabi. Although the payment is guaranteed by EY, one has to wonder where legal jurisdiction lies. As the announcement appeared to include HSBC - no Abu Dhabi - it could lie in India, Abu Dhabi or England. If either of the latter two, and EY chose to enforce their rights ,it could become very messy. 9W flying to AUH or LHR/MAN could become problematic.


The first question is actually very interesting. Banks have acquired their stake for Re 1 and they are unlike to get more than that for their stake from anybody who bids for the airline - in fact banks may have to take a haircut on their debt if they hope to sell their stake. In this scenario if an open offer is indeed announced, the buyer will not offer more than Re 1. How many shareholders will actually tender their shares in that case? I would be interesting to see how this knot gets untangled.

I believe it is HSBC Abu Dhabi
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
subramak1
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:53 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Bloomberg provides additional details.
Banks to put Jet on the block on APRIL 9 with bids due by April 30. Etihad and even Goyal are allowed to bid. It is great that the government has a plan for quick resolution.


It is the right thing any lender should do. Take control and resell this business. If we go by the new bankruptcy code, then Goyal can bid only he pays off the existing loans in full. I am not sure if that would apply to EY also.

Subu
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:58 pm

I'm not certain 1,500 crore, a mere $220 million USD, can even allow Jet to fly to the election. This is good news, but now we need a major investment.

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
Users please stop posting speculative news articles. There are obviously tons of articles generated by news agencies every day, and their main purpose is for clicks and views. So often times they are not actual happenings at the said company, and rather what they think is happening. And nobody cares what they think. We all can think too and have our own assumptions of the situation.
So often I see "why EY has given up and will exit" and "why EY has not given given up" preceding each other in posts.
So please post actual developments or happenings based on facts rather than articles that are the views and perspective of individual agencies and their journos. They generally go as:
Why EY might..
Why EY might not..
Why Jet might..
Why Jet might not..

Try not to dilute the forum with such articles and maintain some discipline in posting.

I disagree 100 percent. First, why should we have waited for fact — formal public announcement of the Goyals resigning, of the banks pumping in Rs 1600 crore — when those on this forum already knew that would be the case well in advance based on the chatter among various news articles. Those, what you deem as speculative articles, provided the insight for us. Second, people come to these forums to provide and receive proactive/prospective thoughts not retroactive/post fact stuff.

Separately for others on this forum. Etihad Board is meeting on March 31 to decide whether they should exit Jet completely, retain their lowered stake post dilution, or invest to maintain their stake at 24.9 percent. what position do you think they will take? Lightsaber. Particularly, your thoughts? My hunch is that because Etihad dropped the number of their directors in the Board from 2 to 1, it is an indication that they probably won’t invest anything more. Even with a reduced stake they still have some upside potential from their stake in Jet priveledge.

Note that the goyals are not precluded from increasing their stake in future. The could probably claw back to 25 percent so they can block special resolutions making this sago very interesting

I don't know. However, having their representative resign a board seat is not conducive to more investment. I could see EY investing, I could see them walk away.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:10 pm

edealinfo wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
It's a pretty common practice to sell companies with negative networth at Rs 1. Ajay Singh also got for SG for that price in 2014


so, why can’t the banks sell their Rs 1 per share for Rs 5 per share (versus the Rs 230 plus market price) get 10,000 crore for the 2000 crore invested and call it a day? something just doesn’t make sense on banks acquiring for Rs 1 when the market price is over 230 times higher.


They are not allowed to do that! SEBI regulates the stock markets in India and there are some very stringent rules against stock dumping by owners/promoters.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:11 pm

In February Jet had a mere 11.4% of the Indian market.
https://www.livemint.com/market/mark-to ... 25947.html

There just isn't enough information to determine Jet's fate:
1. Is there an investor lined up? Can that investor, or their consortium raise $1.5 billion USD (10,000 crore) to right the ship.
2. How many 737NG will go to other airlines?
3. How many pilots does Jet still have? How many jumped?
4. Will employee pay and dues be made right?
5. How much is owed to vendors? (MROs, fuel, catering, ground handling).
6. How will the staff be right sized? How will
total costs be adjusted to compete profitably?

I wish Jet well, this is a smiling stay of execution, not a pardon.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:23 pm

lightsaber wrote:

this is a smiling stay of execution, not a pardon.

Lightsaber

That's a very fair assessment. A change of government post elections could well bring a new lease of life.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:55 pm

unrave wrote:
A change of government post elections could well bring a new lease of life.

Probably not.

Actually a change of Government to Congress might make things worse because it will be a coalition of gazillion parties pulled in various directions, but more importantly, Congress has already voiced its opinion in a negative way of public institutions supporting Jet.

If BJP wins, it will be with a smaller majority than it is currently which means that they will likely be less decisive that they are now.
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:15 pm

edealinfo wrote:
VolvoBus wrote:
Always interesting to read 2 news articles and all the interpretations of them.

There are ,however,2 items which appear to have fallen off the radar.

First,one of the regulators ( ?SEBI ) changed their ruling so that only financial institutions could take a stake of >25% in a company without making an open offer to all shareholders. To avoid this ball and chain, the banks will need to find 2 new investors to avoid them having to do this. If the banks sell their holding to, e g Tata, then I have little doubt that Etihad will commence legal action to enforce the purchase of their shares, if only as a negotiating ploy.

More interesting was the announcement some weeks ago that 9W had defaulted on an interest payment to HSBC-Abu Dhabi. Although the payment is guaranteed by EY, one has to wonder where legal jurisdiction lies. As the announcement appeared to include HSBC - no Abu Dhabi - it could lie in India, Abu Dhabi or England. If either of the latter two, and EY chose to enforce their rights ,it could become very messy. 9W flying to AUH or LHR/MAN could become problematic.

To your 2 points.
1. aren’t banks financial institutions? If so, per what you stated they could hold above 25 percent. Secondly, it is a consortium of banks, not a single bank that would convert debt to shares.
2. Yes, Jet defaulted on payment (if interest???? Or principal???? , or both???) to HSBC which was guaranteed by Etihad. The next payment is due on March 27. as an equity holder, what “rights” can Etihad enforce? As far as I recall, there are no rights or have you just made them up?


Agreed that banks are financial institutions. Their intention is to have moved their shareholdings on within 3 months. If the purchaser is not another financial institution, it would be subject to the restriction.
I confess to not making this clear. If EY have to make the interest payment, under English law, they would hold the same rights to reclaim the money from 9W that HSBC would.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:19 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
VolvoBus wrote:
Always interesting to read 2 news articles and all the interpretations of them.

There are ,however,2 items which appear to have fallen off the radar.

First,one of the regulators ( ?SEBI ) changed their ruling so that only financial institutions could take a stake of >25% in a company without making an open offer to all shareholders. To avoid this ball and chain, the banks will need to find 2 new investors to avoid them having to do this. If the banks sell their holding to, e g Tata, then I have little doubt that Etihad will commence legal action to enforce the purchase of their shares, if only as a negotiating ploy.

More interesting was the announcement some weeks ago that 9W had defaulted on an interest payment to HSBC-Abu Dhabi. Although the payment is guaranteed by EY, one has to wonder where legal jurisdiction lies. As the announcement appeared to include HSBC - no Abu Dhabi - it could lie in India, Abu Dhabi or England. If either of the latter two, and EY chose to enforce their rights ,it could become very messy. 9W flying to AUH or LHR/MAN could become problematic.

To your 2 points.
1. aren’t banks financial institutions? If so, per what you stated they could hold above 25 percent. Secondly, it is a consortium of banks, not a single bank that would convert debt to shares.
2. Yes, Jet defaulted on payment (if interest???? Or principal???? , or both???) to HSBC which was guaranteed by Etihad. The next payment is due on March 27. as an equity holder, what “rights” can Etihad enforce? As far as I recall, there are no rights or have you just made them up?


Agreed that banks are financial institutions. Their intention is to have moved their shareholdings on within 3 months. If the purchaser is not another financial institution, it would be subject to the restriction.
I confess to not making this clear. If EY have to make the interest payment, under English law, they would hold the same rights to reclaim the money from 9W that HSBC would.

You explained it well, and it sounds like a very reasonable law. Thanks
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:24 pm

The latest news from Business Standard
Of total debt of Rs 8,000 crore, about Rs 6,000 crore is the exposure of domestic lenders. The balance is with external financiers — HSBC and Mashreq Bank. They will also be given choice to participate in what domestic lenders are doing. There is possibility that they going to court, the public sector bank executive said. The Jet board on Monday decided to allot 114 million shares to the lenders upon conversion of one rupee of its outstanding Rs 8,000-odd-crore Debt

Senior public sector bank executive said Goyal will pledge at least 16 per cent of his 25 per cent stake. “Without this condition prospective bidders would not look at this firm,” the executive said. The pledged 16 per cent stake of Goyal will also be available in auction. “Thus, in effect, about 67 per cent equity of the firm will be available for prospective bidders for purchase.”

new chairman, possibly a banker, will be announced soon till a new investor takes charge, according to a person close to the development. But on Monday, some reports also said Air India Chairman Ashwani Lohani was in race to head Jet in the interim.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:59 pm

I wonder how many Jet pilots that interviewed with rivals Indigo and SpiceJet, but not formally accepted their offers, would now revert back to Jet, which presumably pays more.

separately., luck for SpiceJet that hadn’t jumped on Jet’s 50 repossessed planes bucause the Government would have left SpiceJet to hung and dry by not also allocating Jet’s Mumbai slots to them.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:22 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I'm not certain 1,500 crore, a mere $220 million USD, can even allow Jet to fly to the election. This is good news, but now we need a major investment.

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
Users please stop posting speculative news articles. There are obviously tons of articles generated by news agencies every day, and their main purpose is for clicks and views. So often times they are not actual happenings at the said company, and rather what they think is happening. And nobody cares what they think. We all can think too and have our own assumptions of the situation.
So often I see "why EY has given up and will exit" and "why EY has not given given up" preceding each other in posts.
So please post actual developments or happenings based on facts rather than articles that are the views and perspective of individual agencies and their journos. They generally go as:
Why EY might..
Why EY might not..
Why Jet might..
Why Jet might not..

Try not to dilute the forum with such articles and maintain some discipline in posting.

I disagree 100 percent. First, why should we have waited for fact — formal public announcement of the Goyals resigning, of the banks pumping in Rs 1600 crore — when those on this forum already knew that would be the case well in advance based on the chatter among various news articles. Those, what you deem as speculative articles, provided the insight for us. Second, people come to these forums to provide and receive proactive/prospective thoughts not retroactive/post fact stuff.

Separately for others on this forum. Etihad Board is meeting on March 31 to decide whether they should exit Jet completely, retain their lowered stake post dilution, or invest to maintain their stake at 24.9 percent. what position do you think they will take? Lightsaber. Particularly, your thoughts? My hunch is that because Etihad dropped the number of their directors in the Board from 2 to 1, it is an indication that they probably won’t invest anything more. Even with a reduced stake they still have some upside potential from their stake in Jet priveledge.

Note that the goyals are not precluded from increasing their stake in future. The could probably claw back to 25 percent so they can block special resolutions making this sago very interesting

I don't know. However, having their representative resign a board seat is not conducive to more investment. I could see EY investing, I could see them walk away.

Lightsaber


I agree EY going from 2 board seats to 1, doesn’t point to anything in the future. Basically the banks now control 9W with over 50% holding. EY’s holding got cut in half and they lost one board seat. That is all that happened. I also think EY was right in asking that any sale should also buy them off. Let’s see how much the banks will strong arm EY. I’m not very sympathetic to either EY or Goyal.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:25 pm

Why are banks getting 50 percent for Re 1 ( or 1 cent) with zero swap of debt??????? I say this is a case for minority’s investors to sue. See the snippet below from today’s article in the Economic Times:


“However, an industry observer, who wished not to be named, alleged that the resolution plan is a big setback for retail investors, governance and minority shareholders.

"For Re 1, the lenders have got as much as 11.4 crore shares or 51 percent of Jet almost for free. As there is no reduction in debt or its liabilities. If a Jet stock is worth Rs 250 today, there should have been a debt reduction of at least Rs 2,750 crore by conversion of these 11.4 crore shares," he argued.

Alleging that the banks got 11.4 crore shares (51 percent of the pad up equity of the airline) for nearly free with an additional fund infusion of only Rs 1,500 crore, he said, "this amount is grossly inadequate."
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:11 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I'm not certain 1,500 crore, a mere $220 million USD, can even allow Jet to fly to the election. This is good news, but now we need a major investment.

edealinfo wrote:
I disagree 100 percent. First, why should we have waited for fact — formal public announcement of the Goyals resigning, of the banks pumping in Rs 1600 crore — when those on this forum already knew that would be the case well in advance based on the chatter among various news articles. Those, what you deem as speculative articles, provided the insight for us. Second, people come to these forums to provide and receive proactive/prospective thoughts not retroactive/post fact stuff.

Separately for others on this forum. Etihad Board is meeting on March 31 to decide whether they should exit Jet completely, retain their lowered stake post dilution, or invest to maintain their stake at 24.9 percent. what position do you think they will take? Lightsaber. Particularly, your thoughts? My hunch is that because Etihad dropped the number of their directors in the Board from 2 to 1, it is an indication that they probably won’t invest anything more. Even with a reduced stake they still have some upside potential from their stake in Jet priveledge.

Note that the goyals are not precluded from increasing their stake in future. The could probably claw back to 25 percent so they can block special resolutions making this sago very interesting

I don't know. However, having their representative resign a board seat is not conducive to more investment. I could see EY investing, I could see them walk away.

Lightsaber


I agree EY going from 2 board seats to 1, doesn’t point to anything in the future. Basically the banks now control 9W with over 50% holding. EY’s holding got cut in half and they lost one board seat. That is all that happened. I also think EY was right in asking that any sale should also buy them off. Let’s see how much the banks will strong arm EY. I’m not very sympathetic to either EY or Goyal.

The fact EY wouldn't top off their investment implies that they want to sell. Sympathy? No. This is business.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:17 am

lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Also, I am surprised that SBI warmed up to Etihad. maybe they liked the directness and no BS approach of a the Etihad CEO and the fact that he came to Mumbai to meet SBI to make his case in person.

Etihad has the competency and is willing to put some cash into Jet under the right terms.

There is a huge deficit. This is a reoganizational bankruptcy without clear rules.

Lightsaber


Selling Jet to Etihad was for opportunity cost; EY's handlers and owners have decided that it is a strategic asset. To nurture it, they need the feed Jet provides.

From banks perspective, if they are willing, go for it.
 
VTCIE
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:43 am

An infographic.

Image
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:47 am

I don’t think anyone knows what EY will do with their Jet investment. The fact that they are still in the process means that they were bluffing to a degree when they told SBI they wouldn’t invest more. Didn’t they have a board meeting on Sunday to discuss Jet (which was after they said they were out). I am confused why people are still saying EY has decided on thing or another. They are playing hardball or whatever their game is. Again I want EY to be out of Jet, but I have two eyes and can see they plan on continuing to play games and be in and out of the investment process. If I had to guess thought, EY will not want a small minority non controlling stake in Jet if it is sold to another airline (meaning they can’t control Jet). I think the Goyals are finally out. So one nuisance is gone :)
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:52 am

edealinfo wrote:
I wonder how many Jet pilots that interviewed with rivals Indigo and SpiceJet, but not formally accepted their offers, would now revert back to Jet, which presumably pays more.
Also, apart from pay, 'seniority' matters to pilots at any given airline. How many high-ranking Commanders at Jet (which is what the rivals were eyeing) had actually decided to put in their papers, is the big Question.
separately., luck for SpiceJet that hadn’t jumped on Jet’s 50 repossessed planes bucause the Government would have left SpiceJet to hung and dry by not also allocating Jet’s Mumbai slots to them.

That was just hype created by media fuelled by the lessors desperation.
True, Lessors would want to give their planes to SG, but there was no way the airline would decide to pick them up overnight, partly because the planes weren't in LCC configuration. SG has good ties with European Wet-lease operators like Small planet and Corendon, who would be able to help SG tide over their MAX grounding crisis rather than them betting on the government's "proposal" to take planes and crew from Jet.

IMO, given the situation, SpiceJet would never make the mistake of jumping to pick up just 9W's planes. Now that the banks have taken over, Ajay Singh may bid for the entire airline - slots, planes, crew and ground infra!
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:20 am

trinidadeG wrote:
Also, apart from pay, 'seniority' matters to pilots at any given airline. How many high-ranking Commanders at Jet (which is what the rivals were eyeing) had actually decided to put in their papers, is the big Question.

Seniority in India is not an issue. If you see any pilot recruitment ads put out by IndiGo you'll find a statement that IndiGo does not have a seniority system for pilots.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:00 am

unrave wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Also, apart from pay, 'seniority' matters to pilots at any given airline. How many high-ranking Commanders at Jet (which is what the rivals were eyeing) had actually decided to put in their papers, is the big Question.

Seniority in India is not an issue. If you see any pilot recruitment ads put out by IndiGo you'll find a statement that IndiGo does not have a seniority system for pilots.


Don't know about other airlines but in jet, right from ground staff to cabin/cockpit crew, seniority did matter.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:12 am

Ahem. IndiGo is not India.
The 'seniority system' very much exists at Jet, as with other Indian carriers.
IndiGo may not have a seniority system themselves, but the Indian high-hour pilots (capable of becoming Captains on their A320s) that they're looking to grab from Jet (and other airlines) DO have seniority at the airline. That was the context of my reply. Pilots certainly will weigh the cost of losing their seniority before switching to another airline.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:38 am

edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:
A change of government post elections could well bring a new lease of life.

Probably not.

Actually a change of Government to Congress might make things worse
..


I have also read that party's son-in-law (a known thief) holds a stake in Interglobe - which is 6E parent Co. Not sure if that could have an influence to upset the beleaguered airlines plans.
Also rumours of market leader getting preference in bulk slot allocations at prime airports (BOM/DEL) when KF vacated the scene, also due to above reason mostly.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:55 am

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/-sad-day-for-indian-aviation-says-spicejet-s-ajay-singh-on-naresh-goyal-exit-1553514345209.html

Nice to see an actual airline CEO of a rival airline acknowledge the greater issues plaguing the industry, and not just pointing all fingers at 9W for their current turmoil. There's a lesson to be learnt by everyone, especially all the govts of the past or present, who have never addressed the core issues of Indian Aviation.
A.net arm chair CEO's will obviously have differing opinions on this, but their opinions don't matter really. :D
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:55 am

Many of those structural restrictions were put in place at the behest of the man who has just been chucked out of his own airline. Perhaps if he hadn't worked against ensuring a level playing field of everyone, things would have turned out differently for a lot of players, including him.

Oh and despite operating within the same restrictions Asia's most valuable LCC happens to be an Indian one.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:02 pm

unrave wrote:

Oh and despite operating within the same restrictions Asia's most valuable LCC happens to be an Indian one.


We'll see if they can maintain that when they complete 25yrs of ops.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:05 pm

avier wrote:

We'll see if they can maintain that when they complete 25yrs of ops.


I am no fortune teller but Jet never made as much money as IndiGo ever in its history, even when it was small and young. Jet was a lot of things, but profitable wasn't one of them.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
Andy33
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:15 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
SG has good ties with European Wet-lease operators like Small planet and Corendon, who would be able to help SG tide over their MAX grounding crisis rather than them betting on the government's "proposal" to take planes and crew from Jet.

Small Planet can't help anyone, due to having ceased trading. Corendon did have some capacity, but the collapse of Germania earlier this year has seen Corendon planes taking over a lot of the beach holiday flights Germania was due to operate in the 2019 Summer timetable.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:23 pm

unrave wrote:
avier wrote:

We'll see if they can maintain that when they complete 25yrs of ops.


I am no fortune teller but Jet never made as much money as IndiGo ever in its history, even when it was small and young. Jet was a lot of things, but profitable wasn't one of them.


Hardly even a fair comparison. One that started ops. when no one was flying and the other when the actual boom had already started , by when the former had accumulated legacy costs. One that gives you everything on a flight, and another nothing. And the lot of things other than profitability you mention of 9W, are industry benchmark standards all strived to achieve, even by market leader- that made it it's usp.
A fair comparison would be of SG and 6E rather.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:39 pm

avier wrote:

Hardly even a fair comparison. One that started ops. when no one was flying and the other when the actual boom had already started , by when the former had accumulated legacy costs. One that gives you everything on a flight, and another nothing. And the lot of things other than profitability you mention of 9W, are industry benchmark standards all strived to achieve, even by market leader- that made it it's usp.
A fair comparison would be of SG and 6E rather.


How's that not a fair competition? IndiGo and Jet have coexisted for roughly half the lifetime of Jet and in that period Jet's record in profitability is abysmal. It clearly failed to see the change in industry and instead of adapting it tried to hide behind protectionism and crony capitalism, and that has now come back to bite it. All those gazillion awards for standards quality/food/lounge/toilets don't and clearly haven't paid the bills.

"Nobody is flying" is relative. When compared to USA hardly anybody is flying even now. Indian aviation was "booming" even in mid-late 90s and early 2000s, albeit from a lower base.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:44 pm

BTVI reports that the SBI expects any new investor to bring Rs 4500 cr of fresh equity
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:46 pm

So I read on another board that 9W BOM/DEL-HKG flights are bookable again. So that seems good. Any other routes back? Do we think they will continue to operate the 9am (or whatever) BOM-LHR flight that I believe they said might stop running April1?

And Avier - I agree with you. If only these guys fought for a fair aviation system when they had power/clout. India needs to move away from crony capitalism. In that regard Goyal got his just reward as he seemed to play the govt game a ton.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:53 pm

unrave wrote:
BTVI reports that the SBI expects any new investor to bring Rs 4500 cr of fresh equity


Boy that is quite a number like ~$650M. I am not disputing Jet needs the cash/investment though. Probably means that EY can't be cashed out immediately. Oh well. EY will just have to deal with one board seat for awhile. On the flip side, if EY is still really interested in Jet, this just raised the bar of what the banks want EY to invest. EY would really be double downing on Jet if they moved forward. I wish someone would leak the behind the scene issues between the banks, government, Goyal and EY. Would be fascinating.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:55 pm

What does “seniority “ bring? more pay, more vacation time???

Why woul SpiceJet want to take over Jet, which would be too big for it to digest. Besides, Jet operates business class whic SpiceJet does not.

When SBI invites bids, instead of all of Jet, why does it not ask for bids to be cut in different ways, for instance,

Whole of Jet

JeLite only

Jet excluding jetlite

Wouldn’t offering parts offer better value to SBI?
 
hohd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:20 pm

Forward bookings for Jet are weak. I wonder who is actually booking Jet. Whatever happens, even if there is a rescue, for the next few months, Jet will lose even more money. The banks have to be aware of that. This constant negative news is hemorrhaging Jet's future revenues. For example they opened HKG for booking, I mean who would actually book Jet knowing there may not be Jet next month.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:22 pm

VTCIE wrote:
An infographic.

Image


All but two 77Ws are still flying. That would be 1/3rd of the shrinking active fleet right now.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:29 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
unrave wrote:
BTVI reports that the SBI expects any new investor to bring Rs 4500 cr of fresh equity


Boy that is quite a number like ~$650M. I am not disputing Jet needs the cash/investment though. Probably means that EY can't be cashed out immediately. Oh well. EY will just have to deal with one board seat for awhile. On the flip side, if EY is still really interested in Jet, this just raised the bar of what the banks want EY to invest. EY would really be double downing on Jet if they moved forward. I wish someone would leak the behind the scene issues between the banks, government, Goyal and EY. Would be fascinating.


That's besides ₹8000 crore loan. The player which buys Jet must be prepared for ₹13000-15000 crore in total expense over the next couple of years. Which begs the question, who is foolish enough to do this?
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:30 pm

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 01131.html

The article appears to be all speculation and lists the usual suspects as interested in Jet - EY, Tata, Delta, Qatar. With EY considering a partnering with UA (supposedly) and AF/KL already having a partnership with EY, it may make sense for DL & EY to be in bed together with Jet even if they don't cooperate otherwise. The article said the DL investment fell through in the past because of the role of Goyal -which is now a moot point. Let's see - interesting times. I am rooting for DL or Tata. $650M is nothing for DL's war chest. Even if 9W loses money for 5 more years, the payoff in the long run could be very significant. China is already lost to US carriers. India is the main opportunity (in Asia and maybe globally along with Brazil). Plus India's location in the world and many large cities will always ensure the need for global partners instead of one city connected nonstop to the world.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:43 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/companies/tata-sons-etihad-airways-delta-air-lines-and-qatar-airways-long-list-of-suitors-for-jet-airways-3701131.html

The article appears to be all speculation and lists the usual suspects as interested in Jet - EY, Tata, Delta, Qatar. With EY considering a partnering with UA (supposedly) and AF/KL already having a partnership with EY, it may make sense for DL & EY to be in bed together with Jet even if they don't cooperate otherwise. The article said the DL investment fell through in the past because of the role of Goyal -which is now a moot point. Let's see - interesting times. I am rooting for DL or Tata. $650M is nothing for DL's war chest. Even if 9W loses money for 5 more years, the payoff in the long run could be very significant. China is already lost to US carriers. India is the main opportunity (in Asia and maybe globally along with Brazil). Plus India's location in the world and many large cities will always ensure the need for global partners instead of one city connected nonstop to the world.


Why Delta and not Air France/KLM which also fly directly to several cities in the United States in addition to flying all over Europe?

Martin, of Marin Consulting believes there will be good interest in Jet.

How does vistara fit in the picture if SQ doesn’t bit with TaTa for Jet?
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:46 pm

Wow jet had high sales commissions! 12%. That is the level of a food supplement company!

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/am ... ion/327622

It didn't help them. If Jet cannot cancel prior sales contracts, they are done. Why weren't their load factors higher if travel agents were so strongly incentivised to sell them?

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:16 pm

Banks funding of Rs. 1500 crore is barely enough to operate a skeleton schedule for two months. Nobody is going to bid for Jet at this high valuations. Unless banks agree to a substantial haircut Jet will be history by June or July
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:51 pm

unrave wrote:
Banks funding of Rs. 1500 crore is barely enough to operate a skeleton schedule for two months. Nobody is going to bid for Jet at this high valuations. Unless banks agree to a substantial haircut Jet will be history by June or July

Per my reading, I am of the impression 1500 crore (about $220 million USD) won't even get Jet through April.

There was to be a forensic audit of Jet by the SBI. Why hasn't that been released?

I'm not sure if 1500 crore will even slow aircraft grounding. If the leasing companies can't move aircraft to paying airlines, expect the lease terms to change. Why isn't the Capetown convention being applied? Silly. This will hurt more Indian companies than just airlines.

Lightsaber
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CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:39 pm

edealinfo - I feel like Delta has been at the forefront of investing in 9W rather than partners AF/KL (although at one point they both were going to invest and then AF/KL - who knows). Delta is sitting on a ton of cash while AF is still rebounding. So probably easiest for DL (and the real high value business is between the US-India).

lightsaber & unraveled - you quotes above - "they are done", "Jet will be history" - Why don't you wait and see the restructuring plan. Also per edealinfo - "Martin, of Marin Consulting believes there will be good interest in Jet" so let's see. Maybe they are worthy of being saved or maybe not. No one on this board has enough info.

As far as the forensic audit - why in god's name would they EVER release that??? SBI and the banks want to SAVE Jet not ruin their reputation or release confidential info. Wrt to moving leased planes to other airlines - I don't see ANY airlines complaining about what is happening to Jet's planes. Hell all Indian airlines would probably do the same. In the end, the Indian sale, lease back market is very advantageous to global airline lease companies (because India has stupid working capital and other rules that force Indian airlines to buy planes cheap on US EXIM credit and then lease them back).
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:46 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber & unraveled - you quotes above - "they are done", "Jet will be history" - Why don't you wait and see the restructuring plan. Also per edealinfo - "Martin, of Marin Consulting believes there will be good interest in Jet" so let's see. Maybe they are worthy of being saved or maybe not. No one on this board has enough info.

As far as the forensic audit - why in god's name would they EVER release that??? SBI and the banks want to SAVE Jet not ruin their reputation or release confidential info.

A forensic audit, in quarterly report form would instill confidence that, combined with a good plan, that Jet can be saved. It had been promised before to release a summary. My experience is that no report is a sign of further problems that haven't been yet discussed.

If releasing a summary would ruin Jet, they are in really bad shape.

As to why not wait:
I have been patiently waiting since October. I didn't turn really negative until recently. I believe Jet has gone too long. I do not believe Jet is in control of it's fate anymore within a plausible bail out package. Tata's board rejected prior bailouts. I believe any buy out would have

We have gone through many bailout discussions. It is my belief that 1,500 crore cannot even clear unpaid monies owed to workers. Recall in January, pilots and engineers were paid 12% of what was owed for December. Jet now owes January, February, and in 6 days March payments.

Leasing companies will place aircraft. Pilots will leave. Jet is not the company they were in September.

The competition has recovered nicely thanks to current fares in India. I was worried about Indigo cancelling flights, but now I just wonder how good their profit will be.

SpiceJet would have been hurt from the MAX grounding, but I believe fares are high enough.

GoAir will thrive.

Air India is fine thanks to government money. I even estimate that the January through March quarter will make money. :faint:

I see no way to reform Jet at this point. For October, November, December, and January I could see a recovery path.

How would you undue the fact leasors will find new airlines to operate the 737NGs in this environment?

How many pilots have left? How many remain?
With Indian rules, I keep seeing that the buyer would be responsible for so much debt that I cannot calculate a positive ROI, much less a business case.

The banks have made promises I do not believe they understand. The restructuring plan was needed 2 to 5 months ago before so many customers were abandoned.

When there are no numbers, the hidden values are scary.
How much does Jet owe MROs? How many aircraft will be out due to differed work? How much is that?

How much is the unpaid fuel bill?
How much is owed to employees.

I estimate the first 6,000 crore (about a billion USD) is already gone. Please provide better numbers. It is scary I cannot estimate within a few hundred million.

Another 4,000 crore is the absolute minimum I see needed to restructure Jet into a much smaller airline. But what changes? India is an obvious market for ULCCs. I can see Jet transforming into Y as ULCC with a small domestic first, but how to get there.

Another 3,000 to more likely 4,000 crore of debt forgiveness is required.

Feel free to read my early posts. Everything's is now a stay of execution to get past the election. Far too much money is needed to save a now small airline that must gut it's costs.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:36 pm

lightsaber wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber & unraveled - you quotes above - "they are done", "Jet will be history" - Why don't you wait and see the restructuring plan. Also per edealinfo - "Martin, of Marin Consulting believes there will be good interest in Jet" so let's see. Maybe they are worthy of being saved or maybe not. No one on this board has enough info.

As far as the forensic audit - why in god's name would they EVER release that??? SBI and the banks want to SAVE Jet not ruin their reputation or release confidential info.

A forensic audit, in quarterly report form would instill confidence that, combined with a good plan, that Jet can be saved. It had been promised before to release a summary. My experience is that no report is a sign of further problems that haven't been yet discussed.

If releasing a summary would ruin Jet, they are in really bad shape.

As to why not wait:
I have been patiently waiting since October. I didn't turn really negative until recently. I believe Jet has gone too long. I do not believe Jet is in control of it's fate anymore within a plausible bail out package. Tata's board rejected prior bailouts. I believe any buy out would have

We have gone through many bailout discussions. It is my belief that 1,500 crore cannot even clear unpaid monies owed to workers. Recall in January, pilots and engineers were paid 12% of what was owed for December. Jet now owes January, February, and in 6 days March payments.

Leasing companies will place aircraft. Pilots will leave. Jet is not the company they were in September.

The competition has recovered nicely thanks to current fares in India. I was worried about Indigo cancelling flights, but now I just wonder how good their profit will be.

SpiceJet would have been hurt from the MAX grounding, but I believe fares are high enough.

GoAir will thrive.

Air India is fine thanks to government money. I even estimate that the January through March quarter will make money. :faint:

I see no way to reform Jet at this point. For October, November, December, and January I could see a recovery path.

How would you undue the fact leasors will find new airlines to operate the 737NGs in this environment?

How many pilots have left? How many remain?
With Indian rules, I keep seeing that the buyer would be responsible for so much debt that I cannot calculate a positive ROI, much less a business case.

The banks have made promises I do not believe they understand. The restructuring plan was needed 2 to 5 months ago before so many customers were abandoned.

When there are no numbers, the hidden values are scary.
How much does Jet owe MROs? How many aircraft will be out due to differed work? How much is that?

How much is the unpaid fuel bill?
How much is owed to employees.

I estimate the first 6,000 crore (about a billion USD) is already gone. Please provide better numbers. It is scary I cannot estimate within a few hundred million.

Another 4,000 crore is the absolute minimum I see needed to restructure Jet into a much smaller airline. But what changes? India is an obvious market for ULCCs. I can see Jet transforming into Y as ULCC with a small domestic first, but how to get there.

Another 3,000 to more likely 4,000 crore of debt forgiveness is required.

Feel free to read my early posts. Everything's is now a stay of execution to get past the election. Far too much money is needed to save a now small airline that must gut it's costs.

Lightsaber


Assuming Jet can hang on (and I know you severely doubt that) how small do you see it would reasonably be? 40 aircraft (20 narrow bodies and 20 wide bodied) or something different?

Can Jet refuse to give outstanding pay to pilots who went to Indigo since Indigo is already compensating those pilots and a payment by Jet would amount to double pay? note that Indigo refused to call it a bonus (to avoid pissing off their existing pilots) and said it was compensation for lost pay. Maybe the banks controlling Jet can now use this against Indigo and the pilots they stole from Jet,
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber & unraveled - you quotes above - "they are done", "Jet will be history" - Why don't you wait and see the restructuring plan. Also per edealinfo - "Martin, of Marin Consulting believes there will be good interest in Jet" so let's see. Maybe they are worthy of being saved or maybe not. No one on this board has enough info.

As far as the forensic audit - why in god's name would they EVER release that??? SBI and the banks want to SAVE Jet not ruin their reputation or release confidential info.

A forensic audit, in quarterly report form would instill confidence that, combined with a good plan, that Jet can be saved. It had been promised before to release a summary. My experience is that no report is a sign of further problems that haven't been yet discussed.

If releasing a summary would ruin Jet, they are in really bad shape.

As to why not wait:
I have been patiently waiting since October. I didn't turn really negative until recently. I believe Jet has gone too long. I do not believe Jet is in control of it's fate anymore within a plausible bail out package. Tata's board rejected prior bailouts. I believe any buy out would have

We have gone through many bailout discussions. It is my belief that 1,500 crore cannot even clear unpaid monies owed to workers. Recall in January, pilots and engineers were paid 12% of what was owed for December. Jet now owes January, February, and in 6 days March payments.

Leasing companies will place aircraft. Pilots will leave. Jet is not the company they were in September.

The competition has recovered nicely thanks to current fares in India. I was worried about Indigo cancelling flights, but now I just wonder how good their profit will be.

SpiceJet would have been hurt from the MAX grounding, but I believe fares are high enough.

GoAir will thrive.

Air India is fine thanks to government money. I even estimate that the January through March quarter will make money. :faint:

I see no way to reform Jet at this point. For October, November, December, and January I could see a recovery path.

How would you undue the fact leasors will find new airlines to operate the 737NGs in this environment?

How many pilots have left? How many remain?
With Indian rules, I keep seeing that the buyer would be responsible for so much debt that I cannot calculate a positive ROI, much less a business case.

The banks have made promises I do not believe they understand. The restructuring plan was needed 2 to 5 months ago before so many customers were abandoned.

When there are no numbers, the hidden values are scary.
How much does Jet owe MROs? How many aircraft will be out due to differed work? How much is that?

How much is the unpaid fuel bill?
How much is owed to employees.

I estimate the first 6,000 crore (about a billion USD) is already gone. Please provide better numbers. It is scary I cannot estimate within a few hundred million.

Another 4,000 crore is the absolute minimum I see needed to restructure Jet into a much smaller airline. But what changes? India is an obvious market for ULCCs. I can see Jet transforming into Y as ULCC with a small domestic first, but how to get there.

Another 3,000 to more likely 4,000 crore of debt forgiveness is required.

Feel free to read my early posts. Everything's is now a stay of execution to get past the election. Far too much money is needed to save a now small airline that must gut it's costs.

Lightsaber

You mentioned “restructure Jet into a much smaller airline”...,,,,, how many aircraft are you talking about.....50 (30 narrow body and 20 wide body)?? or something else.

separately , CAPA had said that Air India would receive many offers for its buyout....... but there wasn’t even a single offer.

would the Tatas get a better deal if Jet went bankrupt and if so, what exactly would be left to buy at that point in time?

can the banks that control Jet refuse outstanding pay to Jet pilots that quit and went to Indigo that already compensated them for lost pay? I mean who wants Those Jet pilots to receive double pay? note that Indigo characterized those payments as compensation as opposed to a bonus so perhaps the banks can use that argument.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:07 pm

Economic Times is reporting that Jet’s current operating fleet of 35 aircraft (a floor) would increase to 75 aircraft by the end of April

Lightsaber, is this the appropriate fleet size for a smaller Jet?

How many aircraft does Jet need at minimum to retain all its Mumbai and Delhi slots?

separately a government official stated that Jet would receive 1500 crore “as soon as possible”. Given all the bureaucratic hoops that things have to go through, how long is that?
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:15 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Economic Times is reporting that Jet’s current operating fleet of 35 aircraft (a floor) would increase to 75 aircraft by the end of April

Lightsaber, is this the appropriate fleet size for a smaller Jet?

How many aircraft does Jet need at minimum to retain all its Mumbai and Delhi slots?

separately a government official stated that Jet would receive 1500 crore “as soon as possible”. Given all the bureaucratic hoops that things have to go through, how long is that?

I will have to let someone else calculate how many aircraft are required or how long it takes to transfer about $220 million USD.

Jet peaked at 124 aircraft, including ATRs.
I see them downsizing to 12 to 15 widebodies (from 19 currently) and 30 to 50 narrowbody aircraft, likely undershooting because of lease non-payment.

So a fleet of 42 to 65. They will need to downsize to 6,000 to 8,000 employees. I think opperating 75 aircraft is too ambitious and a political wish not backed by enough resources to make it happen.

There needs to be a far larger cash infusion to stop the shrinking! Unless leases are paid (unlikely), the fleet will continue to dwindle.

But this assumes a buyer with cash. There has been hope of that, but no offers.

As already noted, Air India was expected to receive many offers. As of now, Jet shouldn't receive any offers. There is no business case.

I wouldn't want to be the bank official signing off on the 1,500 crore. There is no fidiciary duty test that could have been passed.

This is a scheme to stumble along past the election. But if leasing companies and vendors are not paid, they will not cooperate.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:26 pm

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber & unraveled - you quotes above - "they are done", "Jet will be history" - Why don't you wait and see the restructuring plan. Also per edealinfo - "Martin, of Marin Consulting believes there will be good interest in Jet" so let's see. Maybe they are worthy of being saved or maybe not. No one on this board has enough info.

As far as the forensic audit - why in god's name would they EVER release that??? SBI and the banks want to SAVE Jet not ruin their reputation or release confidential info.

A forensic audit, in quarterly report form would instill confidence that, combined with a good plan, that Jet can be saved. It had been promised before to release a summary. My experience is that no report is a sign of further problems that haven't been yet discussed.

If releasing a summary would ruin Jet, they are in really bad shape.

As to why not wait:
I have been patiently waiting since October. I didn't turn really negative until recently. I believe Jet has gone too long. I do not believe Jet is in control of it's fate anymore within a plausible bail out package. Tata's board rejected prior bailouts. I believe any buy out would have

We have gone through many bailout discussions. It is my belief that 1,500 crore cannot even clear unpaid monies owed to workers. Recall in January, pilots and engineers were paid 12% of what was owed for December. Jet now owes January, February, and in 6 days March payments.

Leasing companies will place aircraft. Pilots will leave. Jet is not the company they were in September.

The competition has recovered nicely thanks to current fares in India. I was worried about Indigo cancelling flights, but now I just wonder how good their profit will be.

SpiceJet would have been hurt from the MAX grounding, but I believe fares are high enough.

GoAir will thrive.

Air India is fine thanks to government money. I even estimate that the January through March quarter will make money. :faint:

I see no way to reform Jet at this point. For October, November, December, and January I could see a recovery path.

How would you undue the fact leasors will find new airlines to operate the 737NGs in this environment?

How many pilots have left? How many remain?
With Indian rules, I keep seeing that the buyer would be responsible for so much debt that I cannot calculate a positive ROI, much less a business case.

The banks have made promises I do not believe they understand. The restructuring plan was needed 2 to 5 months ago before so many customers were abandoned.

When there are no numbers, the hidden values are scary.
How much does Jet owe MROs? How many aircraft will be out due to differed work? How much is that?

How much is the unpaid fuel bill?
How much is owed to employees.

I estimate the first 6,000 crore (about a billion USD) is already gone. Please provide better numbers. It is scary I cannot estimate within a few hundred million.

Another 4,000 crore is the absolute minimum I see needed to restructure Jet into a much smaller airline. But what changes? India is an obvious market for ULCCs. I can see Jet transforming into Y as ULCC with a small domestic first, but how to get there.

Another 3,000 to more likely 4,000 crore of debt forgiveness is required.

Feel free to read my early posts. Everything's is now a stay of execution to get past the election. Far too much money is needed to save a now small airline that must gut it's costs.

Lightsaber

You mentioned “restructure Jet into a much smaller airline”...,,,,, how many aircraft are you talking about.....50 (30 narrow body and 20 wide body)?? or something else.

separately , CAPA had said that Air India would receive many offers for its buyout....... but there wasn’t even a single offer.

would the Tatas get a better deal if Jet went bankrupt and if so, what exactly would be left to buy at that point in time?

can the banks that control Jet refuse outstanding pay to Jet pilots that quit and went to Indigo that already compensated them for lost pay? I mean who wants Those Jet pilots to receive double pay? note that Indigo characterized those payments as compensation as opposed to a bonus so perhaps the banks can use that argument.


For all practical purposes Jet is bankrupt (remember bankrupt is a legal term although used very loosely in the english language). Jet has defaulted on it’s leases, employee salaries and has been taken over by banks. Once again - taken over by the banks. I don’t know how Jet’s debt works but my guess the banks have all the power (meaning are at the top of the heap). All people owed money will have to take a haircut. The money the banks are giving Jet seems to me to be just to get them up and running to close the sale. If I had to predict both the Tatas and EY know what they will offer and know what concessions they want (meaning what of Jet’s liabilities they do not want). I can assure you all that there is zero chance that the banks are thinking of selling Jet for hundreds of million dollars and handing off a ton of liabilities to the new owner. A lot of debt will be turned into equity. Will some employees quit over this, sure. Will some vendors refuse to do business with jet going forward, sure. But OLD Jet is DEAD. As people keep saying what assets does Jet have. All the banks need to do is get something over the value of Jet’s hard assets (planes, real estate ??). Because that is all that can be liquidated if Jet closes tomorrow. So if Jet’s hard assets are worth $300M and they get $500M from the sale, it was worth the sale. I am being very simplistic, but I feel people are confused how these types of sales take place.

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos