edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:24 am

unrave wrote:
Jet airways may not fly beyond April finds an internal estimate
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 714404.cms


But, the elections will not end till May 23; will Modi allow Jet to fail?
Separately, I read that jet has 16,000 employees on its payrolls but a different report said it has 23,000 employees. What's the correct count?
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:38 am

edealinfo wrote:
SpiceJet, IndiGo get 10-12 unused slots of Jet Airways at Delhi for interim period

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/spice ... 828021.htm

HOW COME THE SLOTS WERE NOT OFFERED TO VISTARA OR AIRASIA INDIA?


Presumably the foreign ownership levels are too high, so sensitive to give them slots close to an election?

Or GOI is annoyed with Tata for not bailing out Air India and Jet
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:23 am

Why always the TATA's , why not Reliance or any other conglomerate to bail out any of those airlines.

The best proposition for TATA would be to pay one lump sum amount to Jet's lenders and get all their slots at prime airports.
That way they are not taking on any debt or liabilities, but at same time benefiting the lenders by paying them a decent amount for some valuable possessions of the airline.

If they wait for slots to be distributed, they'll barely get anything when it gets divided amongst 5-7 airlines, and also with GoI being more cozy to SpiceJet.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:32 am

avier wrote:
Why always the TATA's , why not Reliance or any other conglomerate to bail out any of those airlines.

Because they're smart enough to not to invest in a money losing enterprise?
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avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:40 am

unrave wrote:
avier wrote:
Why always the TATA's , why not Reliance or any other conglomerate to bail out any of those airlines.

Because they're smart enough to not to invest in a money losing enterprise?


Well, that's my point. The TATA's have already gone into industries that don't make money, but do so with a broader objective to be present everywhere. So the govt. shouldn't expect anything more from TATA's in this regard, like they wouldn't from say Reliance.
They are free to invest where they deem fit .
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:22 am

avier wrote:
Why always the TATA's , why not Reliance or any other conglomerate to bail out any of those airlines.

The best proposition for TATA would be to pay one lump sum amount to Jet's lenders and get all their slots at prime airports.
That way they are not taking on any debt or liabilities, but at same time benefiting the lenders by paying them a decent amount for some valuable possessions of the airline.

If they wait for slots to be distributed, they'll barely get anything when it gets divided amongst 5-7 airlines, and also with GoI being more cozy to SpiceJet.


Problem being that 9W don't have economic rights over the slots... they have been allocated as per airport slot allocation rules, and can't be transferred
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:27 am

Vistara has announced the launch of a slew of routes from BOM on slots previously used by Jet Airways.

The FORTRESS(tm) is crumbling boys.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:02 am

Glad that's another FSC taking its place. Good for BOM fliers.
Seems like Vistara will be cutting flights between other stations. After all the financial capital is more lucrative.
 
BOMRPR
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:55 am

unrave wrote:
Vistara has announced the launch of a slew of routes from BOM on slots previously used by Jet Airways.

The FORTRESS(tm) is crumbling boys.


Mumbaikar's would be happy to welcome UK as it's Home carrier, we have suffered immensely with the inconsistent product of 9W, its time the people of this city fly an actual FSC
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:58 am

Everyone will be happy If Vistara gets the majority of Mumbai slots. The last thing I want to see is 6E flooding Mumbai. AI-DEL and UK-BOM and 6E-BLR.

Now that lessors out of the picture, what next for 9W?
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:00 am

I also find AirAsia India has launched three new flights between BOM-BLR around the same time.
I suspect some under the table deal having been worked out with the TATA'S regarding slots, like I had suggested a few posts above.
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:08 am

avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
avier wrote:
Why always the TATA's , why not Reliance or any other conglomerate to bail out any of those airlines.

Because they're smart enough to not to invest in a money losing enterprise?


Well, that's my point. The TATA's have already gone into industries that don't make money, but do so with a broader objective to be present everywhere. So the govt. shouldn't expect anything more from TATA's in this regard, like they wouldn't from say Reliance.
They are free to invest where they deem fit .


A Tata CEO had the same idea; he was promptly fired by Ratan Tata.

Seems like Tata’s like to score self goals.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:38 pm

My guess is all the slot transfers are on an interim basis. I doubt Jet would just lose slots a week after stopping flying. If they did, Jet is effectively killed. The banks would cry bloody murder (and the banks are the GOI which controls the slots). Then again in India the left hand definitely can cut off the right hand. Add to that there has been no leaks on what is going on in the process. Is EY still in it? What are the terms they want (why doesn’t EY leak what they want)? All so weird. I still feel like everyone is looking for some type of inside under the table deal. Hence the lack of leaks. Weirdness continues.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:38 pm

Naresh Goyal is still the boss as he continues to own 51 percent of Jet’s stock. The banks, after the Supreme Court decision, can no longer convert Re 1 debt to 51 percent of equity
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dnaind ... 736184/amp
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:59 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
My guess is all the slot transfers are on an interim basis. I doubt Jet would just lose slots a week after stopping flying. If they did, Jet is effectively killed. The banks would cry bloody murder (and the banks are the GOI which controls the slots). Then again in India the left hand definitely can cut off the right hand. Add to that there has been no leaks on what is going on in the process. Is EY still in it? What are the terms they want (why doesn’t EY leak what they want)? All so weird. I still feel like everyone is looking for some type of inside under the table deal. Hence the lack of leaks. Weirdness continues.


Everything seems very murky. Looks like the various arms of the govt. are not in agreement with each other now over the fate of the airline. About EY, there is no official word on what they really want. My best guess is the airline will be sold in parts having hush-hush deals.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:01 pm

How did banks kick out NG and EY from the board even before the agreement is signed? Hope this is not an elaborate plot by the old snake to get rid of debt and still control the airline. With enough palms greased at NCLT and NCALT, it is doable, methinks.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:15 pm

unrave wrote:
Vistara has announced the launch of a slew of routes from BOM on slots previously used by Jet Airways.

The FORTRESS(tm) is crumbling boys.

could you please provide details on the NEW flights and if they are replacing other routes that they dropped and you have the information, please share it
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:26 pm

vadodara wrote:
avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
Because they're smart enough to not to invest in a money losing enterprise?


Well, that's my point. The TATA's have already gone into industries that don't make money, but do so with a broader objective to be present everywhere. So the govt. shouldn't expect anything more from TATA's in this regard, like they wouldn't from say Reliance.
They are free to invest where they deem fit .


A Tata CEO had the same idea; he was promptly fired by Ratan Tata.

Seems like Tata’s like to score self goals.

Was that CEO Cyrus Mistry? Why didn’t you specify the name. What are you afraid of? This is not Saudi
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:39 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Naresh Goyal is still the boss as he continues to own 51 percent of Jet’s stock. The banks, after the Supreme Court decision, can no longer convert Re 1 debt to 51 percent of equity
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dnaind ... 736184/amp


So, the shares were never transferred to the banks in the first place, yet everything went ahead like it did. Every one now realizes that and Now we are back to SQUARE ONE. welcome to the Indian merry go round, chasing the dog’s tail , the rigmarole, or whatever else it is called. India is the KING in these games.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:00 pm

unrave wrote:
Jet airways may not fly beyond April finds an internal estimate
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 714404.cms

It might not be until then:

Avolon has begun the process to deregister aircraft:

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL3N21M2BL

More and more evidence there is no faith in continued opperations. I feel for the employees. It was LATE to fix this last October.

Even with a 1,500 crore cash infusion, flying through April is ambitious.

Lightsaber
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avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:16 pm

Seems like the lenders have opted for a timebound stake sale of the beleaguered carrier. Invitation of EoIs for stake sale starts on April 6 and ends on April 9. Only three days to sell the airline.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:50 pm

Link on stake sale:
https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 728202.cms

Let us see, past 9 pm in India. So only a few days for a bid package. Still no money from lenders...
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Exeiowa
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:52 pm

Maybe we can have an Anet whip round, a dollar or local equivalent should do it, and then we can all be joint CEO, a second fund will be collected to purchase armchairs for us all.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:00 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
Maybe we can have an Anet whip round, a dollar or local equivalent should do it, and then we can all be joint CEO, a second fund will be collected to purchase armchairs for us all.


If the banks could get 51 percent equity of Rs 1 why couldn’t we? Just the 3 day fire sale shows the banks desperation.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:03 pm

edealinfo wrote:

If the banks could get 51 percent equity of Rs 1 why couldn’t we? Just the 3 day fire sale shows the banks desperation.

Because we haven't lent Rs 8500 crore to Jet
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:10 pm

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

If the banks could get 51 percent equity of Rs 1 why couldn’t we? Just the 3 day fire sale shows the banks desperation.

Because we haven't lent Rs 8500 crore to Jet

Because the buyer must invest a half billion USD+ too.

What is the daily estimated loss for Jet? Maintaining 16,000 employees isn't cheap. Keeping 26 aircraft flying costs money. To make jet of any value, the fleet must be increased to 70+ aircraft.

Good luck to employees of Jet. Restarting the rescue process must be horrible.

India needs a better bankruptcy legal code.

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avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:11 pm

Apparently, other private airlines also have been offered slots at BOM on a temporary basis but are yet to announce new flights. They were advised to operate flights on routes flown by Jet prior to it curtailing flights with a view to maintain capacity on those routes.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:22 pm

There are currently 116 unused Jet slot pairs at BOM (140 prior minus 24 departures per day). Or about 1 departure per day per aircraft in Jet's fleet. If Jet rebuilds, I'd estimate Jet will only grow back to a hundred.

If I sit into my CEO armchair, I would access temporary slots and then argue or delay to keep them. I personally do not think any buyer will see transferred slots again.

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 476_1.html

Indigo must fix the pilot shortage to take advantage and will likely miss most of an opportunity to grab slots.

Customers will not just go back to Jet. The competition has had a well funded quarter. Market share (per a prior link) was predominantly going to Indigo and SpiceJet.

I'm going to be very curious as to the quarterly results of Indian airlines. It is only a two quarter profit spike, but a nearly permanent market share loss.

Lightsaber

Late edit:

Market share link:
https://www.livemint.com/market/mark-to ... 25947.html

Jet dropped from 16.4% to 11.4% (drop of 5.3 percent)
In February (opperating at about the best case recovery capacity), Jet was mostly still functioning and had some advanced sales.
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:38 pm

Seems more and more like it was a bailout for NG, not 9W.
Vahroone
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:10 pm

Right now, with Jet’s operations curtailed significantly, all the other competitors are doing well. Why would they want to save Jet, if it will only bring more capacity, and their state will change from “doing well” to “heck, can I make a profit?” It is in the interests of competitors for Jet to fail.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:19 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Right now, with Jet’s operations curtailed significantly, all the other competitors are doing well. Why would they want to save Jet, if it will only bring more capacity, and their state will change from “doing well” to “heck, can I make a profit?” It is in the interests of competitors for Jet to fail.


Saving Jet only applied when Goyal was there (IMHO). Now they are selling Jet to recover as much of their investment as they can. That is it. It doesn’t matter the new owners keeps the jet name or employees. It still is a sale. I don’t think any buyer would assume Jet’s liabilities. Jets curequity owners could get shares in a new company or pennies on the dollar. Also, the new owner would probably be able to renegotiate some portion of the leases. So there is no saving Jet - I think that is a point that is lost on the board. The thing i cant explain is the Jet stock price. I can only guess that they know something we dont???
 
9w748capt
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:29 pm

Curious which routes Vistara is adding from BOM. Any new destinations?
 
JOYA380B747
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 am

9w748capt wrote:
Curious which routes Vistara is adding from BOM. Any new destinations?


https://www.facebook.com/AirVistara/pos ... 50?__xts__
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
moa999
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:21 am

With seemingly cancellations everywhere you'd think Jets forward bookings have just dried up.
No cash coming in is and even bigger issue.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:32 am

From the business Standard newspaper

........”The resolution plan prepared by the lenders had estimated an emergency fund of Rs 1,500 crore for the airline, but after a lengthy meeting of bankers and Jet executives on Thursday, a decision was taken to infuse Rs 150 crore for now. There was no consensus among the bankers on the resolution plan or the committed amount of Rs 1,500 crore. With the additional funds, the airline, left with 26 planes, will manage operations for only the next few days. It has assured the government there will be no further groundings

The proposal for releasing priority funding of Rs 1,500 crore is likely to be put to vote on Friday following which a final decision will be taken. People in the know indicated that there’s a likelihood of the vote not going through. Banks have made it clear that that they will pursue other options, including a reference to the insolvency court, if the stake sale process fails to result in “an acceptable outcome.”
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:55 am

edealinfo wrote:
Right now, with Jet’s operations curtailed significantly, all the other competitors are doing well. Why would they want to save Jet, if it will only bring more capacity, and their state will change from “doing well” to “heck, can I make a profit?” It is in the interests of competitors for Jet to fail.


Jet got 2 minutes of fame because of impending elections; NG was too dumb or arrogant not to take the offer.
 
blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:04 am

Air Asia and Vistara have announced flights with Jet's slots from BOM, while other airlines are also offered slots but yet to announce routes...

AirAsia, Vistara cash in on crisis-hit Jet Airways slots, launch 11 flights

Tata-group owned airlines AirAsia India and Vistara have announced 11 new flights from Mumbai after the airport operator released unused slots belonging to Jet Airways. The slots have been released to the airlines on a temporary basis.
...
Other private airlines also have been offered slots by Mumbai airport but are yet to announce new flights.
...
On Thursday, Vistara announced launch of five flights between Mumbai and Bengaluru and one new flight from Mumbai to Hyderabad and Kolkata. These would operate from April 16 to July 15. Currently, Vistara flies to Delhi and Amirtsar from Mumbai and its market growth has been stunted due to non-availability of slots.

Vistara will be reducing frequencies on other routes to operate these additional services from Mumbai.

AirAsia India announced three additional flights to Bengaluru and a new flight to Kochi from Mumbai, beginning April 15. The airline did not mention until which date these flights would remain in operations.
...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:08 am

edealinfo wrote:
From the business Standard newspaper

........”The resolution plan prepared by the lenders had estimated an emergency fund of Rs 1,500 crore for the airline, but after a lengthy meeting of bankers and Jet executives on Thursday, a decision was taken to infuse Rs 150 crore for now. There was no consensus among the bankers on the resolution plan or the committed amount of Rs 1,500 crore. With the additional funds, the airline, left with 26 planes, will manage operations for only the next few days. It has assured the government there will be no further groundings

The proposal for releasing priority funding of Rs 1,500 crore is likely to be put to vote on Friday following which a final decision will be taken. People in the know indicated that there’s a likelihood of the vote not going through. Banks have made it clear that that they will pursue other options, including a reference to the insolvency court, if the stake sale process fails to result in “an acceptable outcome.”

A link:

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 065_1.html

Unlikely to release 1,500 crore? 150 won't pay salaries. It will only pay for a little Jet fuel.

I guess you can operate longer if you forgot salaries and lease payments.

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FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:36 am

Having spoken to several Mumbikers, the situation is less than appealing, shifting most international flights to 737s was frustrating. Disrupted service has led them to avoid Jet, this can’t be helping with forward bookings...
On the topic of Vistara, they seem to be ok if that is what replaces 9W, but with only about 20 frames I can’t see them being able to secure enough slots at BOM before the spoils of Jet’s demise are split up between everyone else. And thats without mentioning the fact there basically won’t be an major international airline based in Mumbai. I wonder if UK be willing to have a similar AF/KL/VS/DL arrangement as Jet has if Jet disappears.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:14 am

Fuel was cut off for 75 minutes due to non-payment at DEL:

https://news.webindia123.com/news/artic ... 26315.html

Now we know where the 150 crore went...
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lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:15 am

Vistara has B787 coming this year...

So far, they are taking independent path - codeshares & agreements with LH/ JL/ BA/ UA, so evenly split OneWorld/ Star. So, yes, similar arrangement, but different partners (not Skyteam it seems...)
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:56 am

I give them 10 days. Then its all over.
 
VTORD
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:05 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
On the topic of Vistara, they seem to be ok if that is what replaces 9W, but with only about 20 frames I can’t see them being able to secure enough slots at BOM before the spoils of Jet’s demise are split up between everyone else. And thats without mentioning the fact there basically won’t be an major international airline based in Mumbai. I wonder if UK be willing to have a similar AF/KL/VS/DL arrangement as Jet has if Jet disappears.

According to Tarun Shukla, UK has 12 frames coming this fiscal including 2 789s. If 9W goes under they could use them to beef up BOM, maybe even some of Jet's NB international routes? Something like a PNQ-SIN maybe?

Speaking of international, what happens to the AUH routes that NG infamously yanked during this drama? This action would have opened up some breathing space in the bilateral. Can another airline that takes Jet's slots simply add the frequency and get the same slot at the AUH end? Or are those slots lost for good?

vadodara wrote:
A Tata CEO had the same idea; he was promptly fired by Ratan Tata.
Seems like Tata’s like to score self goals.

Agreed!
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:53 am

[quote="VTORD"]
According to Tarun Shukla, UK has 12 frames coming this fiscal including 2 789s. If 9W goes under they could use them to beef up BOM, maybe even some of Jet's NB international routes? Something like a PNQ-SIN maybe?

Speaking of international, what happens to the AUH routes that NG infamously yanked during this drama? This action would have opened up some breathing space in the bilateral. Can another airline that takes Jet's slots simply add the frequency and get the same slot at the AUH end? Or are those slots lost for good?

Replacing the capacity vacated by Jet will not be immediate as all airline have a shortage of planes, pilots or both. The slots will be split four ways between SG, 6E, G8 and UK
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pushpakvimaan
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:07 am

I would like to fly the last Jet flight. Lots of interesting memories of air travel on Jet
 
bennett123
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:11 am

What is the situation in India for passengers if Jet folds?.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:40 am

Infographic that lists the number of slots that have been allotted at each airport
Image

A very good opportunity for well run airlines to expand their footprint in the commercial airport
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avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:47 am

unrave wrote:
Infographic that lists the number of slots that have been allotted at each airport
Image

A very good opportunity for well run airlines to expand their footprint in the commercial airport


These slots are, as of now, being offered only between 16th April - 15th July.
6E & SG have both not yet announced what these flights will be, and the dates are quite near. I wonder how SG, with their MAX groundings, can make us of these additional slots on short notice.

Also, very surprised, the only other Mumbai HQ'd airline - GoAir- has not been given these slots. They also have a lot of spare aircraft in their fleet. I'm suspecting pilot shortage be the reason.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:55 am

Slightly off topic but how is SpiceJet coping with the MAXs grounding?
They are by far its largest operator in India and I wonder what equipment they will use for the increase flying and slot allocation after Jet's shrinkage.
On the flip side they can benefit greatly from so many 737 rated pilots looking for a new employer.
Many thanks for all info.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:55 am

bennett123 wrote:
What is the situation in India for passengers if Jet folds?.


Zero. As things stand today.
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos