dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:04 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Spicejet makes hay while the sun shines by hiring ex Jet staff at substantially lower salaries

“SpiceJet is now hiring engineers and pilots at much lower pay than their current salaries at the financialy-troubled Jet. Industry sources told IANS that pilots from Jet Airways are being asked to take salary cuts of 25-30 per cent while engineers have been advised to settle at 50 per cent of their current pay package.“


Unless DGCA gives pilots a notice waiver (or) Jet voluntarily releases bond, SpiceJet cannot hire Jet Airways pilots.

9W definitely don't need all/any of these pilots, so it may release them voluntarily. Also, not saying DGCA is not drinking Spicey kool-aid, but that is the rule.

IMHO, SG pilots must be cringing if it is getting 16 new planes, MAX grounding gave them a breather from brutal rosters. They are not going to be happy.

Net beneficiaries of this fiasco are Vietnam and China, not India or Indian carrier.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:05 pm

avier wrote:
If only one bothers to read and understand any news rather than sensationalizing it by quoting half cooked pictures on it.
.


Is this the half cooked story you were referring to? Maybe you should check google before commenting. You seem to have done the kind of research of a 10 year old (running wild thoughts through ones head and nothing more)

https://www.ndtv.com/business/jet-airwa ... rt-2022849

And here is a direct quote from the article "Low-cost carrier and top rival SpiceJet appears to be making the most of the crisis at Jet Airways."
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2040
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:07 pm

Thank you for not using a large font. Bolding is enough. Underlining needed as well??
Last edited by WPvsMW on Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
avier
Posts: 868
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:08 pm

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
If only one bothers to read and understand any news rather than sensationalizing it by quoting half cooked pictures on it.
.


Is this the half cooked story you were referring to? Maybe you should check google before commenting. You seem to have done the kind of research of a 10 year old (running wild thoughts through ones head and nothing more)

https://www.ndtv.com/business/jet-airwa ... rt-2022849

And here is a direct quote from the article "Low-cost carrier and top rival SpiceJet appears to be [u]making the most of the crisis at Jet Airways[/u]."



Well had you posted the link or the entire news the first time you posted that, it would have helped.

And that was my point really, don't post just a paragraph of a news with the rest of it hidden away to sensationalize it and invoke responses like you got from another user .

Provide the complete news and picture.
If I have checked the entire news on it , hence I was able to correct on that, but other users may be seeing that news on her first time.
Last edited by avier on Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Unless DGCA gives pilots a notice waiver (or) Jet voluntarily releases bond, SpiceJet cannot hire Jet Airways pilots.


Jet already gave the waiver to pilots months ago. In any case, no such waiver is needed since Jet has not paid salary and therefore Jet broke their contract. Despite this being India, no one is obligated to work as a slave (some contract obligating one to work without pay)
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:12 pm

avier wrote:
Well had you posted the link or the entire news the first time you posted that, it would have helped.

And that was my point really, don't post just a paragraph of a news with the rest of it hidden away to sensationalize it and invoke responses like you got from another user .

Provide the complete new and picture.


Did that change the facts of the case? No. It's the same thing --- SpiceJet offering Jet pilots pay that is substantially lower than their current pay.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:13 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Thank you for not using a large font. Bolding is enough. Underlining needed as well??


Oh yes, I should avoid that. What about quotes? That too?
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:17 pm

The quote function takes care of quotes.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:18 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Jet already gave the waiver to pilots months ago.

That is just for ATR pilots

edealinfo wrote:
In any case, no such waiver is needed since Jet has not paid salary and therefore Jet broke their contract. Despite this being India, no one is obligated to work as a slave (some contract obligating one to work without pay)


There is no automatic waiver clause on non-payment of salary. Sure employees have better case and 9W may not fight, but it is not automatic.

Is SG going to pay all lost pay to 9W hires??? If not China/Vietnam is a better option, they can recover lost pay in a couple of months.

What would you do if you face such conundrum? There is no guarantee SG will be in business.

It appears ground/cabin crew are flocking to Air India as it is on a hiring binge.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:19 pm

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
Well had you posted the link or the entire news the first time you posted that, it would have helped.

And that was my point really, don't post just a paragraph of a news with the rest of it hidden away to sensationalize it and invoke responses like you got from another user .

Provide the complete new and picture.


Did that change the facts of the case? No. It's the same thing --- SpiceJet offering Jet pilots pay that is substantially lower than their current pay.


So what's your point? They should be paid the same as their previous employer?
What's your agenda on here really?
You should work for one of those news co. as you seem great
at highlighting things in a twisted way to attract attention. Instead of highlighting that Jet was over paying their staff, you make it look like SG are the bad guys here by forcing those pilots to work for lower salary.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:19 pm

Jet Airways intends to restart operations to London....followed by Amsterdam and Paris while holding off of ASEAN and SAARC (non Westbound) destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 83126.html
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:24 pm

avier wrote:
So what's your point? They should be paid the same as their previous employer?
What's your agenda on here really?
You should work for one of those news co. as you seem great
at highlighting things in a twisted way to attract attention. Instead of highlighting that Jet was over paying their staff, you make it look like SG are the bad guys here by forcing those pilots to work for lower salary.


Don't blame me for how you interpreted the story. That's your faulty logical conclusion and you are blaming me for it! If you go to my post, you can see that it was all factual.

You didn't even take the trouble of doing a cursory Google search to check if it was fact. Don't blame me for your lazy arse!

>>>What's your agenda on here really?
I have none. That's your problem, you read into too many things when there are none! Again, this is faulty logical reasoning.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:29 pm

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Did that change the facts of the case? No. It's the same thing --- SpiceJet offering Jet pilots pay that is substantially lower than their current pay.


So what's your point? They should be paid the same as their previous employer?
What's your agenda on here really?
You should work for one of those news co. as you seem great
at highlighting things in a twisted way to attract attention. Instead of highlighting that Jet was over paying their staff, you make it look like SG are the bad guys here by forcing those pilots to work for lower salary.


Don't blame me for how you interpreted the story. That's your faulty logical conclusion and you are blaming me for it! If you go to my post, you can see that it was all factual.

You didn't even take the trouble of doing a cursory Google search to check if it was fact. Don't blame me for your lazy arse!


Well, I did see that news way before you posted it on here, hence I was able to address the false assumption another user got when he read you selectively posted piece of that news article.
It's obvious you're an attention seeker as you use various juvenile ways to do that like by using over sized fonts, posting speculative news as an actual development news, and selective posting of articles to sensationalize the news. Get a life !
Don't dilute the content and threads on a.net here.
 
jensona6
Posts: 41
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:31 pm

It looks an interesting day as it seems AF took temporary control over the 9W123 slot today at BOM, that means in total they are sending 2 aircrafts, Boeing 777-300ER for their regular AF217/218 flight (instead of Mainline A332/Joon A343) and a Boeing 787-9 as substitute for the canceled 9W123. Looking forward to see what her sister airline KLM shall do considering the daily 9W flight to AMS using 77W is also cancelled.
Last edited by jensona6 on Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:32 pm

"The lessor of 7 (Jet) aircraft have withdrawn their application to de-register their plans with the aviation regulator DGCA, implying that these planes would be leased out to (other?) airlines within the country.

"Sources said these planes could be leased out to players such as SpiceJet (no a chance in my opinion), Alliance Air, TruJet, Air Deccan and Air Odisha Aviation, who have won the rights under the UDAN scheme, which tries to connect tier-II and tier-III cities."

https://www.telegraphindia.com/business ... id/1688731
 
VTCIE
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:38 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Spicejet makes hay while the sun shines by hiring ex Jet staff at substantially lower salaries

“SpiceJet is now hiring engineers and pilots at much lower pay than their current salaries at the financialy-troubled Jet. Industry sources told IANS that pilots from Jet Airways are being asked to take salary cuts of 25-30 per cent while engineers have been advised to settle at 50 per cent of their current pay package.“


Unless DGCA gives pilots a notice waiver (or) Jet voluntarily releases bond, SpiceJet cannot hire Jet Airways pilots.

9W definitely don't need all/any of these pilots, so it may release them voluntarily. Also, not saying DGCA is not drinking Spicey kool-aid, but that is the rule.

IMHO, SG pilots must be cringing if it is getting 16 new planes, MAX grounding gave them a breather from brutal rosters. They are not going to be happy.

Net beneficiaries of this fiasco are Vietnam and China, not India or Indian carrier.


Could you explain how China and Vietnam benefit from this fiasco? And which fiasco, exactly? The MAX groundings? No Vietnamese airline operates the 737, let alone the MAX. I don’t see your logic. I don’t want to drink your Kool-Aid (to borrow your words) unless you back your claim up properly.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
VTCIE
Posts: 301
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:43 pm

jensona6 wrote:
It looks an interesting day as it seems AF took temporary control over the 9W123 slot today at BOM, that means in total they are sending 2 aircrafts, Boeing 777-300ER for their regular AF217/218 flight (instead of Mainline A332/Joon A343) and a Boeing 787-9 as substitute for the canceled 9W123. Looking forward to see what her sister airline KLM shall do considering the daily 9W flight to AMS using 77W is also cancelled.


Flightradar24:

Image
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:47 pm

edealinfo wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Spicejet makes hay while the sun shines by hiring ex Jet staff at substantially lower salaries

“SpiceJet is now hiring engineers and pilots at much lower pay than their current salaries at the financialy-troubled Jet. Industry sources told IANS that pilots from Jet Airways are being asked to take salary cuts of 25-30 per cent while engineers have been advised to settle at 50 per cent of their current pay package.“


That's pure outright cruel and violates labor laws.

Employees should reach court if true.


Why.....if Jet's pay is substantially higher than all the airlines, should other airlines also pay the inflated salaries or be held in violation of some un-named labor law? Your response makes no sense.

You didn't mention that they were being paid as equal to existing SG employees and its against general conscience to think that 9W was paying it's employees Upto 100% more than others ( mechanics)

Also mentioning the source is a good habit to have.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:51 pm

VTCIE wrote:
Could you explain how China and Vietnam benefit from this fiasco?


Both countries welcome expat pilots, with salaries double or more than Indian carriers can offer. Type rating doesn't matter.

Overworked captains from 6E and SG are looking for a way out. Vietnam seems to be their preferred destination.

There are multiple Bollywood soap operas going on in Indian aviation. Pick your fiasco.

If you just lost 6 months salary, you wouldn't go out from the frying pan into the fire.
 
User avatar
unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

That is just for ATR pilots

FALSE. All pilots are free to leave Jet Airways without serving the notice period.

Remember kids, always fact check comments posted from Amreeka.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
VolvoBus
Posts: 213
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:20 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Jet Airways intends to restart operations to London....followed by Amsterdam and Paris while holding off of ASEAN and SAARC (non Westbound) destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 83126.html


Operating to LHR,AMS and CDG strikes me as rather problematic. 9W already have one 77W at Amsterdam, due to enforcement of judgement for a debt. I doubt the Dutch cargo forwarders are the only European creditors that have obtained judgement, so any 9W plane flying into the EU is in danger of receiving the same treatment.

This might be a major stumbling block to somebody buying 9W. Nobody seems to take account of foreign creditors. If they think they are goinh to be unilaterally stiffed by the Indian banks, they might well take matters into their own hands. After all, I doubt that there are no overdue accounts with airports,ground handlers, air traffic control, fuel companies etc.
 
Breathe
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:22 pm

What a shambles. What a shame for all those staff who have been working without pay and the passengers who've been left in limbo.
 
Breathe
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:27 pm

It just goes from bad to worse!

Jet Airways Says Will Fly 7 Planes As Union Declares Strike At Midnight


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/jet-air ... ow-2022912

New Delhi:

More than 1,000 pilots and engineers of the cash-strapped Jet Airways have decided to stop flying from midnight, in effect grounding the airline, a senior official of the National Aviators Guild -- the Union for Jet Airways' pilots -- told NDTV. Around 1,100 pilots are, however, expected to meet tomorrow morning and take a formal, collective decision.

"The flights will stop from midnight, the meeting will be held tomorrow," said Captain Karan Chopra, head of the National Aviators Guild. The pilots and engineers of Jet Airways have not been paid for three months and the government should step in now, he said. "Unemployment is an election issue... In another day or two, more than 20,000 people in Jet Airways can be unemployed," he added.

A spokesperson of Jet Airways said the "operations will be unaffected" by the National Aviators Guild strike, though the airline has a very curtailed schedule. "Seven aircraft will remain in operation, which will be flown by pilots who don't belong to the Guild," the airline said. Management sources told NDTV that 60 per cent of its pilots are not part of the Union. The airline used to operate 119 aircraft before its troubles started.

Saddled with more than $1.2 billion in bank debt, Jet Airways stopped most of its international flights over the last week. It is yet to receive a Rs.1,500-crore loan as part of a rescue deal agreed in late March.

"It is time to seek for some answers, to humbly ask those who have the power to help us what the future may hold. Hence, we request all pilots to gather at Siroya Centre on the 15th at 10.00 hrs in full uniform," a statement from the pilots' body read.

Over the last week, the airline had cancelled a series of flights, by Friday owing Rs. 3,500 crore to passengers alone, news agency Press Trust of India reported. Besides banks, the Mumbai-based airline also owes money to to lessors, suppliers and oil companies.

The group of Jet Airways' lenders, led by the State Bank of India, have been seeking a new investor to take a stake of upto 75 per cent in the airline. Initial bids were to be submitted by the end of Wednesday, but the bank has extended the deadline to April 12.

On Wednesday, Indian Oil Corporation halted the supply of fuel to Jet Airways for a few hours over non-payment of dues.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:35 pm

anshabhi wrote:
.....


>>You didn't mention that they were being paid as equal to existing SG employees

That is the logical assumption. Assuming, instead, that they would be paid below the existing SG pay scales is faulty logical reasoning.

>>Also mentioning the source is a good habit to have

It did. if you see within the quote that I listed the first time, it specifically stated according to "IANS" (India Abroad News Service). I couldn't give a link because I read the story within a mobile web application, so there is no web link for that to "copy and paste a web [reference] address".
Last edited by edealinfo on Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:38 pm

VolvoBus wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Jet Airways intends to restart operations to London....followed by Amsterdam and Paris while holding off of ASEAN and SAARC (non Westbound) destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 83126.html


Operating to LHR,AMS and CDG strikes me as rather problematic. 9W already have one 77W at Amsterdam, due to enforcement of judgement for a debt. I doubt the Dutch cargo forwarders are the only European creditors that have obtained judgement, so any 9W plane flying into the EU is in danger of receiving the same treatment.

This might be a major stumbling block to somebody buying 9W. Nobody seems to take account of foreign creditors. If they think they are goinh to be unilaterally stiffed by the Indian banks, they might well take matters into their own hands. After all, I doubt that there are no overdue accounts with airports,ground handlers, air traffic control, fuel companies etc.


I think 9W can clear WFS dues very easily. Not sure why 9W misjudged a vendor's intent. What would WFS do with a 77W by seizing it? Who will pay Schipol parking fees for the 77W? Can WFS sell with a financial lien on it? It was a knee-jerk action which didn't help 9W or WFS.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:41 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think 9W can clear WFS dues very easily. Not sure why 9W misjudged a vendor's intent. What would WFS do with a 77W by seizing it? Who will pay Schipol parking fees for the 77W? Can WFS sell with a financial lien on it? It was a knee-jerk action which didn't help 9W or WFS.


I actually think it will help WFS as now WFS will be in the list of priority payments (from Jet when it receives cash) as opposed to being on the back-burner list.
Last edited by edealinfo on Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:41 pm

jensona6 wrote:
It looks an interesting day as it seems AF took temporary control over the 9W123 slot today at BOM, that means in total they are sending 2 aircrafts, Boeing 777-300ER for their regular AF217/218 flight (instead of Mainline A332/Joon A343) and a Boeing 787-9 as substitute for the canceled 9W123. Looking forward to see what her sister airline KLM shall do considering the daily 9W flight to AMS using 77W is also cancelled.


Great catch and super interesting. Thanks for posting something actually relevant to this discussion. I guess it goes to show all the traffic that DL/AF/KL have been pushing through Jet. Despite that Jet was still in trouble. I know people have said the losses were driven by domestic routes, but I am still curious as to why Jet couldn’t make it work when fuel is low. Also what will AF DL do if/when Jet goes under. That is a lot of seats to have to fill with US-EU pax and would probably affect yield. IMHO DL is almost always not the cheapest when I book US-EU travel.
 
vadodara
Topic Author
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:50 pm

jensona6 wrote:
It looks an interesting day as it seems AF took temporary control over the 9W123 slot today at BOM, that means in total they are sending 2 aircrafts, Boeing 777-300ER for their regular AF217/218 flight (instead of Mainline A332/Joon A343) and a Boeing 787-9 as substitute for the canceled 9W123. Looking forward to see what her sister airline KLM shall do considering the daily 9W flight to AMS using 77W is also cancelled.


Just goes to prove the value of 9W to EY. AF/DL/VS could make 9W work if 9W had the right aircraft. 777's are too big to operate out of cities except BOM/DEL.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:52 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Jet Airways intends to restart operations to London....followed by Amsterdam and Paris while holding off of ASEAN and SAARC (non Westbound) destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 83126.html

How is Jet going to do that if the pilots are going on strike?
Also Jet says they will restart operations because they see good load factors? Maybe that is the problem, going off of load factors and not yields.
And how are they even seeing good load factors when nobody is booking Jet flights?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:56 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Jet Airways intends to restart operations to London....followed by Amsterdam and Paris while holding off of ASEAN and SAARC (non Westbound) destinations.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 83126.html

How is Jet going to do that if the pilots are going on strike?
Also Jet says they will restart operations because they see good load factors? Maybe that is the problem, going off of load factors and not yields.
And how are they even seeing good load factors when nobody is booking Jet flights?


Ssshhhhh. They need to sell their vision to the banks (for the 1,000 crore loan) and you are spoon feeding the banks the hard questions to ask Jet.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:00 pm

jensona6 wrote:
It looks an interesting day as it seems AF took temporary control over the 9W123 slot today at BOM, that means in total they are sending 2 aircrafts, Boeing 777-300ER for their regular AF217/218 flight (instead of Mainline A332/Joon A343) and a Boeing 787-9 as substitute for the canceled 9W123. Looking forward to see what her sister airline KLM shall do considering the daily 9W flight to AMS using 77W is also cancelled.

Looks like a one off aircraft sub. AF217 for April 16th is back to the A343.
Last week the flight was operated by the A332 instead of the regular A343. Maybe something to do with availability of the A343s.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:03 pm

vadodara wrote:
jensona6 wrote:
It looks an interesting day as it seems AF took temporary control over the 9W123 slot today at BOM, that means in total they are sending 2 aircrafts, Boeing 777-300ER for their regular AF217/218 flight (instead of Mainline A332/Joon A343) and a Boeing 787-9 as substitute for the canceled 9W123. Looking forward to see what her sister airline KLM shall do considering the daily 9W flight to AMS using 77W is also cancelled.


Just goes to prove the value of 9W to EY. AF/DL/VS could make 9W work if 9W had the right aircraft. 777's are too big to operate out of cities except BOM/DEL.


Well, the first step would be to get rid of the existing fleet. EY, if still in play can lease its spare A320s, A320XLR is perfect aircraft for India secondary-EU routes. Otherwise, Boeing MAX will do in a premium heavy config.

77Ws
BOM-LHRx2
BOM-AMSx1
BOM-CDGx1
DEL-LHRx2
AMS-YYZx1
AOG/MX/Standby -3

33X
DEL-AMS -1
MAA-CDG -1
AOG/MX/Standby - 2
 
DDR
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:05 pm

avier wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Spicejet makes hay while the sun shines by hiring ex Jet staff at substantially lower salaries

“SpiceJet is now hiring engineers and pilots at much lower pay than their current salaries at the financialy-troubled Jet. Industry sources told IANS that pilots from Jet Airways are being asked to take salary cuts of 25-30 per cent while engineers have been advised to settle at 50 per cent of their current pay package.“


That's pure outright cruel and violates labor laws.

Employees should reach court if true.


How so? Please explain.

The above user to have quoted that news has done so without providing the complete picture.
All that was stated was that SG will pay any hired staff from 9W the same pay scale as what's being offered to their own staff. They obviously can't offer 9W staff higher salary and their own staff lower, doesn't make sense.
If only one bothers to read and understand any news rather than sensationalizing it by quoting half cooked pictures on it.

Feels like a bunch of ten year olds on this thread topic.


Agreed, they can't pay new employees more than current employees.

Besides, even if they will be paid 50% of their current salary, it is still 100% more than they are actually getting since many haven't received any pay at all for months.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:10 pm

I am going to give the Jet unions the benefit of the doubt. I think they have behaved very responsibly through all this drama. Sad thing is because they didn’t go nuclear, the govt did nothing. Such a sad state of Indian affairs. Looks like the French/AF union approach is better suited for india rather than Southwest (meaning a responsible holistic big picture view of not hurting your employer while still fighting the fight)
 
TC957
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:24 pm

As far as restarting LHR is concerned, I wouldn't bother if I was them. No-one is going to risk having their travel plans messed about by Jet delaying or cancelling flights again at short notice. I'm sure any travel company will have them on stop-sale like mine has so no support from that source either.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:29 pm

TC957 wrote:
As far as restarting LHR is concerned, I wouldn't bother if I was them. No-one is going to risk having their travel plans messed about by Jet delaying or cancelling flights again at short notice. I'm sure any travel company will have them on stop-sale like mine has so no support from that source either.


My guess it is driven by already sold tickets. It’s school holidays in BOM now then you have school holidays and summer in UK and USA. That’s my guess. My family has four tickets already booked through DL that includes a leg on Jet. Either Jet flies or DL moves us. Unclear if there are enough open seats. It’s probably cheaper for DL to give a little subsidy to Jet rather than have to scramble. BTW none of our DL/9W flights have been changed. Still shows as booked online...
 
pune
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:37 pm

edealinfo wrote:
How valuable are Bombay slots?

Apparently Ajay Singh of SpiceJet seems to know. He isn't even willing to sacrifice any time to reconfigure Jet's ex-planes.....so those birds will continue to have business class seats (for which he will charge a premium), and the extra leg room that Jet offers over its competitors (no time to waste when slots {especially prime-time slots} are up for grab on a first come first served basis). All that will change is the exterior coat of paint to indicate that the plane is now SpiceJet. This tells us something about seizing the opportunity!

Vistara and Air Asia are left in the dust while they continue to huff and puff.


That I read and makes lot of sense.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:52 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, the first step would be to get rid of the existing fleet. EY, if still in play can lease its spare A320s, A320XLR is perfect aircraft for India secondary-EU routes. Otherwise, Boeing MAX will do in a premium heavy config.

77Ws
BOM-LHRx2
BOM-AMSx1
BOM-CDGx1
DEL-LHRx2
AMS-YYZx1
AOG/MX/Standby -3

33X
DEL-AMS -1
MAA-CDG -1
AOG/MX/Standby - 2


You left out BLR
 
Andy33
Posts: 2427
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:56 pm

TC957 wrote:
As far as restarting LHR is concerned, I wouldn't bother if I was them. No-one is going to risk having their travel plans messed about by Jet delaying or cancelling flights again at short notice. I'm sure any travel company will have them on stop-sale like mine has so no support from that source either.


In any case they can only restart LHR with the approval of Etihad, as they were using LHR slots owned by Etihad, who have now taken full control of them. While the slots did belong to Jet, they were sold to Etihad and leased back as part of an earlier bailout.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:58 pm

edealinfo wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, the first step would be to get rid of the existing fleet. EY, if still in play can lease its spare A320s, A320XLR is perfect aircraft for India secondary-EU routes. Otherwise, Boeing MAX will do in a premium heavy config.

77Ws
BOM-LHRx2
BOM-AMSx1
BOM-CDGx1
DEL-LHRx2
AMS-YYZx1
AOG/MX/Standby -3

33X
DEL-AMS -1
MAA-CDG -1
AOG/MX/Standby - 2


You left out BLR


Jet is not going back to BLR. That is a ULCC territory. 9W was doing good until it declared BLR as its third hub, all downhill from there. If you study Indian aviation history, most failed airlines have BLR hub or HQ. You can fact check.
 
Speedbirdasia
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 3:41 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:57 pm

Looks like the 330s are beginning to leave the fleet. As reported by Skyliner Aviation:

A332 VT-JWQ MSN 956 has been flown to Madrid back to Altavair Air Finance on 11 April.
A333 VT-JWS MSN 1361 ferried BLR-BOM in preparation to return to lessor (GECAS) on 13 April.
 
edealinfo
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Can Jet avoid paying outstanding lease payments in all repossessed aircraft? If so, a huge obligation gets eliminated
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2261
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:44 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Can Jet avoid paying outstanding lease payments in all repossessed aircraft? If so, a huge obligation gets eliminated


No. They will still owe for the past due lease payments plus additional penalties for violating lease terms.

You come up with all these hypothetical business scenarios yet you seem to have no grasp on either basic business laws or basic business concepts.

Jet is toast.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8866
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:50 pm

Some lease companies may take the view that it is better to get the aircraft out of India, even if they do not get full payment. When Jet fold there may not be a lot of money to fight.

Also with the current B737MAX situation, those B737NG could easily be placed elsewhere.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:58 pm

Looks like the pilot strike is deferred again
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/over ... ector.html
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:15 pm

Breathe wrote:
It just goes from bad to worse!

Jet Airways Says Will Fly 7 Planes As Union Declares Strike At Midnight


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/jet-air ... ow-2022912

New Delhi:

More than 1,000 pilots and engineers of the cash-strapped Jet Airways have decided to stop flying from midnight, in effect grounding the airline, a senior official of the National Aviators Guild -- the Union for Jet Airways' pilots -- told NDTV. Around 1,100 pilots are, however, expected to meet tomorrow morning and take a formal, collective decision.

"The flights will stop from midnight, the meeting will be held tomorrow," said Captain Karan Chopra, head of the National Aviators Guild. The pilots and engineers of Jet Airways have not been paid for three months and the government should step in now, he said. "Unemployment is an election issue... In another day or two, more than 20,000 people in Jet Airways can be unemployed," he added.

A spokesperson of Jet Airways said the "operations will be unaffected" by the National Aviators Guild strike, though the airline has a very curtailed schedule. "Seven aircraft will remain in operation, which will be flown by pilots who don't belong to the Guild," the airline said. Management sources told NDTV that 60 per cent of its pilots are not part of the Union. The airline used to operate 119 aircraft before its troubles started.

Saddled with more than $1.2 billion in bank debt, Jet Airways stopped most of its international flights over the last week. It is yet to receive a Rs.1,500-crore loan as part of a rescue deal agreed in late March.

"It is time to seek for some answers, to humbly ask those who have the power to help us what the future may hold. Hence, we request all pilots to gather at Siroya Centre on the 15th at 10.00 hrs in full uniform," a statement from the pilots' body read.

Over the last week, the airline had cancelled a series of flights, by Friday owing Rs. 3,500 crore to passengers alone, news agency Press Trust of India reported. Besides banks, the Mumbai-based airline also owes money to to lessors, suppliers and oil companies.

The group of Jet Airways' lenders, led by the State Bank of India, have been seeking a new investor to take a stake of upto 75 per cent in the airline. Initial bids were to be submitted by the end of Wednesday, but the bank has extended the deadline to April 12.

On Wednesday, Indian Oil Corporation halted the supply of fuel to Jet Airways for a few hours over non-payment of dues.


The meeting is in Mumbai. How does it work for pilots, who live elsewhere? They will travel to Mumbai, for this meeting, at their own expense? After three and a half months of working for free?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:33 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Can Jet avoid paying outstanding lease payments in all repossessed aircraft? If so, a huge obligation gets eliminated


No. They will still owe for the past due lease payments plus additional penalties for violating lease terms.

You come up with all these hypothetical business scenarios yet you seem to have no grasp on either basic business laws or basic business concepts.

Jet is toast.

You contradict yourself. if you have already concluded that Jet is toast, how do you expect the lessors to collect their lease payments..,,,and let’s not forget those juicy penalties as well.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:47 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Can Jet avoid paying outstanding lease payments in all repossessed aircraft? If so, a huge obligation gets eliminated


No. They will still owe for the past due lease payments plus additional penalties for violating lease terms.

You come up with all these hypothetical business scenarios yet you seem to have no grasp on either basic business laws or basic business concepts.

Jet is toast.


Actually since you brought up business practice, these leases will absolutely be renegotiated. Remember old Jet is dead. Those missed payments are gone. Now the lessor has to decide do they work with the new owner or take their planes elsewhere. I suspect some will play ball while others wont. Remember india is a huge leasing market. Lease rates across a portfolio factor in defaults. Don’t cry for the leasing companies, as they are making money overall.
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:51 pm

edealinfo wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Can Jet avoid paying outstanding lease payments in all repossessed aircraft? If so, a huge obligation gets eliminated


No. They will still owe for the past due lease payments plus additional penalties for violating lease terms.

You come up with all these hypothetical business scenarios yet you seem to have no grasp on either basic business laws or basic business concepts.

Jet is toast.

You contradict yourself. if you have already concluded that Jet is toast, how do you expect the lessors to collect their lease payments..,,,and let’s not forget those juicy penalties as well.


Well, how about, having repossessed the leased airframes, the lessor than staples accumulated debt to any Jet-owned property? Like that widebody stuck in AMS. Or any other, Jet-owned frame, that now dares to venture outside of India.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2261
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:55 pm

edealinfo wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Can Jet avoid paying outstanding lease payments in all repossessed aircraft? If so, a huge obligation gets eliminated


No. They will still owe for the past due lease payments plus additional penalties for violating lease terms.

You come up with all these hypothetical business scenarios yet you seem to have no grasp on either basic business laws or basic business concepts.

Jet is toast.

You contradict yourself. if you have already concluded that Jet is toast, how do you expect the lessors to collect their lease payments..,,,and let’s not forget those juicy penalties as well.


I did not contradict myself. You asked a really basic question and you don’t like the answer.

If Jet survives they will still owe for the missed lease payments. Giving back the leased planes does not relieve them of their debts. They used the planes for the period and they owe for that along with the contractually agreed penalties.

They can relieve themselves of the debt by liquidating the company according to Indian Law and paying the lessors in the proper ratio as other unsecured creditors.

In the meantime, the lessors can get real money for their planes by taking them elsewhere.

The 777 in AMS will be released when the creditor gets paid, as per Dutch law. Jet will probably not be the ones to pay them.

I sorry that you don’t like the situation that Jet is in.

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