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Kilopond
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:28 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
[...]They can relieve themselves of the debt by liquidating the company according to Indian Law and paying the lessors in the proper ratio as other unsecured creditors.[...]


Another option would be the Swissair bankruptcy way: transfer the operations to another, legally independent company. In that case the "good bank“ had been Crossair LX, later renamed into Swiss International Airlines. The "bad bank“ Swissair had been liquidated and the governments as well as the creditors had to swallow their respective losses.
 
DLPMMM
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Kilopond wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:
[...]They can relieve themselves of the debt by liquidating the company according to Indian Law and paying the lessors in the proper ratio as other unsecured creditors.[...]


Another option would be the Swissair bankruptcy way: transfer the operations to another, legally independent company. In that case the "good bank“ had been Crossair LX, later renamed into Swiss International Airlines. The "bad bank“ Swissair had been liquidated and the governments as well as the creditors had to swallow their respective losses.


Actually that was a liquidation where Crossair bought assets off the carcass of Swiss and the money was distributed to debtors according to Swiss law. There was no “good company/bad company”.

The same with TWA and Pan Am.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:59 pm

Kilopond wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:
[...]They can relieve themselves of the debt by liquidating the company according to Indian Law and paying the lessors in the proper ratio as other unsecured creditors.[...]


Another option would be the Swissair bankruptcy way: transfer the operations to another, legally independent company. In that case the "good bank“ had been Crossair LX, later renamed into Swiss International Airlines. The "bad bank“ Swissair had been liquidated and the governments as well as the creditors had to swallow their respective losses.


The current Brussels Airlines has its roots in Delta Air Transport and was formed this way as well after SABENA went bankrupt. The problem is that there is no "good bank" part for 9W that could be used from which a successor could be carved. The lesson here is that politics can't be allowed to interfere, as it may have been best to wind up 9W at the end of calendar year 2018 and announce an orderly shutdown of the company, such as when Air Berlin was shut down (easyJet acquired 25 of the leases and most of the rest of the narrow-body fleet were sold by the lessors to Lufthansa). Here, lessors allowed this to go on for so long that planes are being stored in derelict condition and may need to be scrapped where they are stored. The lessors should have been more proactive in canceling leases and de-registering aircraft. Did they not learn from the collapse of Kingfisher? (Investec was forced to scrap a derelict AT75 in India.)
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:14 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Did they not learn from the collapse of Kingfisher? (Investec was forced to scrap a derelict AT75 in India.)


There were no derelict ATRs owned by "real" IT lessors. All leased planes are flying again with new customers.

There were 13xATRs and still are(6 @MAA) derelict ATRs owned by shell companies. Hence Vijay Mallya's argument with PSBs to writeoff the debt so he can start/restart an airline with 13xATRs.

I am sure Goyal somehow has a few ATRs in his pocket. I have no proof, but strong belief.
All posts are just opinions.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:50 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Did they not learn from the collapse of Kingfisher? (Investec was forced to scrap a derelict AT75 in India.)


There were no derelict ATRs owned by "real" IT lessors. All leased planes are flying again with new customers.

There were 13xATRs and still are(6 @MAA) derelict ATRs owned by shell companies. Hence Vijay Mallya's argument with PSBs to writeoff the debt so he can start/restart an airline with 13xATRs.

I am sure Goyal somehow has a few ATRs in his pocket. I have no proof, but strong belief.

What aemoreira mentioned is correct, those ATR72 condition are so bad they will be write off, and there is one reduced to pile. https://www.planespotters.in/2016/01/sp ... atr72.html
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juliuswong
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:53 am

Update 15th April 2019:
A330-202 956 VT-JWQ Jet Airways ferried 11apr19 BOM-MAD for storage by Altavair AirFinance ex F-WWYA
A330-302 1361 VT-JWS Jet Airways ferried 13apr19 BLR-BOM prior return to lessor ex F-WWKF
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=2

The end is nigh.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:06 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Did they not learn from the collapse of Kingfisher? (Investec was forced to scrap a derelict AT75 in India.)


There were no derelict ATRs owned by "real" IT lessors. All leased planes are flying again with new customers.

There were 13xATRs and still are(6 @MAA) derelict ATRs owned by shell companies. Hence Vijay Mallya's argument with PSBs to writeoff the debt so he can start/restart an airline with 13xATRs.

I am sure Goyal somehow has a few ATRs in his pocket. I have no proof, but strong belief.


VT-KAI was scrapped in India, despite being owned by Investec. The remaining owned ATRs are derelict, possibly having been seized. The A319 used for Mallya was scrapped at Mumbai.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:20 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Did they not learn from the collapse of Kingfisher? (Investec was forced to scrap a derelict AT75 in India.)


There were no derelict ATRs owned by "real" IT lessors. All leased planes are flying again with new customers.

There were 13xATRs and still are(6 @MAA) derelict ATRs owned by shell companies. Hence Vijay Mallya's argument with PSBs to writeoff the debt so he can start/restart an airline with 13xATRs.

I am sure Goyal somehow has a few ATRs in his pocket. I have no proof, but strong belief.


VT-KAI was scrapped in India, despite being owned by Investec. The remaining owned ATRs are derelict, possibly having been seized. The A319 used for Mallya was scrapped at Mumbai.

Sad ending to all those new aircraft. I believe KF received brand new ATR 72 before they went belly-up.

As for A319CJ, 13 years is short lived, noting last few years it remained derelict at BOM. It was first offered in auction back in 2016. https://twitter.com/sandeepunnithan/sta ... 0646199296

Then, they finalised the deal two months ago and started dismantling it in Air India hangar.
https://www.timesnownews.com/business-e ... tos/378162
https://www.news18.com/news/india/vijay ... 58747.html
https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/mum ... 295466.cms
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:36 am

juliuswong wrote:
Update 15th April 2019:
A330-202 956 VT-JWQ Jet Airways ferried 11apr19 BOM-MAD for storage by Altavair AirFinance ex F-WWYA
A330-302 1361 VT-JWS Jet Airways ferried 13apr19 BLR-BOM prior return to lessor ex F-WWKF
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=2

The end is nigh.

VT-JWT is likely to have been repossessed as well
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
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Revelation
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 am

edealinfo wrote:
Spicejet makes hay while the sun shines by hiring ex Jet staff at substantially lower salaries

“SpiceJet is now hiring engineers and pilots at much lower pay than their current salaries at the financialy-troubled Jet. Industry sources told IANS that pilots from Jet Airways are being asked to take salary cuts of 25-30 per cent while engineers have been advised to settle at 50 per cent of their current pay package.“

Yet that it is infinitely more than the zero they've been getting for the last three months...
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:00 am

Is there any real update? Have funds actually been released? (I've read so many false alarms, I have no interest in reading anything other than funds released.)


Revelation wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Spicejet makes hay while the sun shines by hiring ex Jet staff at substantially lower salaries

“SpiceJet is now hiring engineers and pilots at much lower pay than their current salaries at the financialy-troubled Jet. Industry sources told IANS that pilots from Jet Airways are being asked to take salary cuts of 25-30 per cent while engineers have been advised to settle at 50 per cent of their current pay package.“

Yet that it is infinitely more than the zero they've been getting for the last three months...

If Jet was paying that much over market rate, no wonder they went bankrupt. But yes, it is better to be paid 50% to 70% of prior wage scales than never to receive those wages.

I feel for Jet's employees. They are holding onto hope when they were managed into oblivion. Real change should have started years ago. It wouldn't have been fun, but it would be better than the present.

Lightsaber
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:09 am

pune wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
How valuable are Bombay slots?

Apparently Ajay Singh of SpiceJet seems to know. He isn't even willing to sacrifice any time to reconfigure Jet's ex-planes.....so those birds will continue to have business class seats (for which he will charge a premium), and the extra leg room that Jet offers over its competitors (no time to waste when slots {especially prime-time slots} are up for grab on a first come first served basis). All that will change is the exterior coat of paint to indicate that the plane is now SpiceJet. This tells us something about seizing the opportunity!

Vistara and Air Asia are left in the dust while they continue to huff and puff.


That I read and makes lot of sense.

Better to capture the customers and lose money for a few months. It takes time, probably six to 8 months, to bring in enough new seats.

It is great PR. When ready, reconfigure the aircraft and go. Or... are these really short leases that won't pay for a reconfiguration? The MAX will be flying again. When I won't claim to know, but long term SpiceJet will go to the MAX.

Lightsaber
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edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:27 am

lightsaber wrote:
I feel for Jet's employees. They are holding onto hope when they were managed into oblivion. Real change should have started years ago. It wouldn't have been fun, but it would be better than the present.
Lightsaber


The change was proposed last August. A twenty-five percent (25%) across the Board salary cut was proposed for all airline staff at all levels. Th management implemented it, but the Dear Leader (Naresh Goyal), always wanting to be "Chacha" to his large workforce, and for who who treasured his fatherly/uncle role, after speaking with employees and unions, undermined the management decision, and over-ruled it.

The rest, as they say, is history.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:32 am

US company, London firm backing Naresh Goyal's bid to reboard Jet Airways

If you are interested in a few laughs.

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68881124.cms?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:35 am

Vistar's excuse for found sleeping at the wheels and failing to grab Jet's slots

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 881116.cms

"Air Vistara’s long-term growth strategies will not be swayed by short-term developments, the airline’s chairman Bhaskar Bhat said while declining to comment on the Tata Group’s official stand on Jet Airways, which is up for sale. "
 
716131
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:05 am

Only 1 flight seems to be airborne now. I guess only 5 or less aircraft remains now
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:08 am

SQ789 wrote:
Only 1 flight seems to be airborne now. I guess only 5 or less aircraft remains now

I believe there are 7 operational aircraft: 6 ATR and a single 737
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:17 am

edealinfo wrote:
Vistar's excuse for found sleeping at the wheels and failing to grab Jet's slots

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 881116.cms

"Air Vistara’s long-term growth strategies will not be swayed by short-term developments, the airline’s chairman Bhaskar Bhat said while declining to comment on the Tata Group’s official stand on Jet Airways, which is up for sale. "

? It says basically that they do not want to buy Jet. Which is very sensible
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:04 am

unrave wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
Only 1 flight seems to be airborne now. I guess only 5 or less aircraft remains now

I believe there are 7 operational aircraft: 6 ATR and a single 737

That figure is only in media. I have been tracking flightaware since morning never saw more than 1 a/c flying

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/fleet/JAI
 
photomosaic
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:04 am

On the topic of SG getting some 9W slots and employees - with new inductions what should their leverage be next year? I get 7x lease adj...

Admittedly a long growth runway, but if correct, doesn't leave a lot of room for error
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:18 am

anshabhi wrote:

There are three aircraft flying now
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:35 am

unrave wrote:
anshabhi wrote:

There are three aircraft flying now

Are they all ATRs?

I can only imagine the yield.

Lightsaber
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B747fanReal
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:37 am

lightsaber wrote:
unrave wrote:
anshabhi wrote:

There are three aircraft flying now

Are they all ATRs?

I can only imagine the yield.

Lightsaber

Currently there are 3 ATR72s and one Boeing 737-800 flying

The ATRs are in Jet Livery while the lone 737 is in JetKonnect livery


Sent from my iPhone XS MAX using Tapatalk
 
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Revelation
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:11 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Vistar's excuse for found sleeping at the wheels and failing to grab Jet's slots

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 881116.cms

"Air Vistara’s long-term growth strategies will not be swayed by short-term developments, the airline’s chairman Bhaskar Bhat said while declining to comment on the Tata Group’s official stand on Jet Airways, which is up for sale. "

Isn't it ironic that, after years of people complaining that Indian-focused airlines had too many planes on order, no one seems to have enough ready capacity to fill the void being created by the demise of Jet Airways? I think the MAX situation, and to a lesser extent the PW GTF situation, are creating even more constraint than we would have expected.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:29 pm

24 of the grounded aircraft have been deregistered so far. Lessors have files request to deregister an additional 7 aircraft
Source: https://twitter.com/Deaphen/status/1117765288139739137
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:54 pm

unrave wrote:
24 of the grounded aircraft have been deregistered so far. Lessors have files request to deregister an additional 7 aircraft
Source: https://twitter.com/Deaphen/status/1117765288139739137

Your post could be relevant, and 1000 percent more useful if you also indicated the size of the Jet fleet after you subtract the number of deregistered aircraft and the number that were filed to be registered. Is the “net” fleet , excluding deregistered and filed to be deregistered greater than 26 planes?

note that Jet’s request for 1000 crores involve a fleet of 26 aircraft
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:18 pm

Revelation wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Vistar's excuse for found sleeping at the wheels and failing to grab Jet's slots

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 881116.cms

"Air Vistara’s long-term growth strategies will not be swayed by short-term developments, the airline’s chairman Bhaskar Bhat said while declining to comment on the Tata Group’s official stand on Jet Airways, which is up for sale. "

Isn't it ironic that, after years of people complaining that Indian-focused airlines had too many planes on order, no one seems to have enough ready capacity to fill the void being created by the demise of Jet Airways? I think the MAX situation, and to a lesser extent the PW GTF situation, are creating even more constraint than we would have expected.


Huh? It is the right situation. Why should airlines that barely make profits keep tons of excess capacity. Which foreign airline has added flights even though Jet has collapsed? It takes time. Plus it is still unclear if Jet is really gone (meaning old Jet is but will a new Jet rise). If so, some airlines might not want to deploy capacity on a temporary basis.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:23 pm

excellent update on spicejet plans in the link below
1. To launch a slew of flights from Mumbai to international destinations, for which they already operate flights. ( I think they are positioning Bombay to be a hub)

2. Getting 16 of ex Jet 737 aircraft that will be coming back to India, within just 7 days, after a fresh coat of exterior Spicejet branded paint.

3. The article provides additional details on availability of slots at Mumbai and Delhi.

4. My view regarding the slot availability— “the early bird catches the worm”. Spicejet moved fast and indigo is moving good. Vistara, Air Asia and GO, are sleeping at the wheels when the biggest opportunity in over a decade (to grab key slots) has opened up.

What I don’t get. Is why the Indian media has neglected stories on the slow pace of Vistara , Go, and Air Asia......and taking those airlines to task for poor planning in being opportunistic when it comes to slots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:50 pm

edealinfo wrote:
What I don’t get. Is why the Indian media has neglected stories on the slow pace of Vistara , Go, and Air Asia......and taking those airlines to task for poor planning in being opportunistic when it comes to slots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp


Scaling up rapidly is not an easy task by any means. It's pretty easy to run too high on your costs or resources and could quickly turn into a digging your own grave situation.
If the airline managements think it's better to go slow and think long term, good for them.

We have to see how SG will operate with only 156 Y seats and how will it manage the 12 J seats in 9W B738s.

If I remember correctly, expanding too rapidly was the exact reason why SG went burst in 2014.

About loans, Modi govt has not shown a single instance of absent mindedly Dolling out money to sick corporations and it's unlikely to happen here too. They are probably just getting reports from bankers and requesting them to do the best possible thing.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:53 pm

Looks like Air India is still only in love with Dubai (good old days), as that's the only thing as of yet they've requested for from Jet's Garage sale.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/air-india-spicejet-eye-jet-airways-lucrative-dubai-route-1555335572674.html
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:59 pm

Today's so-called important outcome on the airline :

Image
 
juliuswong
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:14 pm

All seriousness aside, this thread started eight months ago, a lot of us saw the writings on the wall. But there were few staunch 9W supporters who denied every possible going under scenario, some even stated all these bad news were staged by 9W competitors... Well it imploded by itself. Wonder where are all these members now? "Hot slush fund by 6E" was hotly used I remember....hmmm
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:17 pm

Jet Airways has fuel supply only till tomorrow afternoon:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 891754.cms
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:18 pm

edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:
24 of the grounded aircraft have been deregistered so far. Lessors have files request to deregister an additional 7 aircraft
Source: https://twitter.com/Deaphen/status/1117765288139739137

Your post could be relevant, and 1000 percent more useful if you also indicated the size of the Jet fleet after you subtract the number of deregistered aircraft and the number that were filed to be registered. Is the “net” fleet , excluding deregistered and filed to be deregistered greater than 26 planes?

note that Jet’s request for 1000 crores involve a fleet of 26 aircraft


That is common for Indian Media, it goes something like this.

6E added a few Billion ASKMs this quarter.
SG market share went up by 2%
UK added 5 new routes
AI has the lowest market share.
You figure out who did good or bad.

The cumulative grounding numbers probably cross 200-300, but Jet had only 124 to start with.
All posts are just opinions.
 
hohd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:27 pm

Add Air India to those airlines who are not looking to add routes from BOM, in addition to Vistara and GoAir (which also has some issues). Air Asia is adding some routes from BOM. Considering that they had only one flight from BOM, now they have about 5 to 6, they are doing fine. If Jet gets back, it will have a hard time even in BOM, I think Jet is done for good now. One more bad investment for EY.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:36 pm

juliuswong wrote:
All seriousness aside, this thread started eight months ago, a lot of us saw the writings on the wall. But there were few staunch 9W supporters who denied every possible going under scenario, some even stated all these bad news were staged by 9W competitors... Well it imploded by itself. Wonder where are all these members now? "Hot slush fund by 6E" was hotly used I remember....hmmm

Are they still reading this thread? Wonder what would be their defence now?
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:41 pm

unrave wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
All seriousness aside, this thread started eight months ago, a lot of us saw the writings on the wall. But there were few staunch 9W supporters who denied every possible going under scenario, some even stated all these bad news were staged by 9W competitors... Well it imploded by itself. Wonder where are all these members now? "Hot slush fund by 6E" was hotly used I remember....hmmm

Are they still reading this thread? Wonder what would be their defence now?


It's possible that they were somehow going to be directly affected by 9W's meltdown and wanted things to be nice.

There's a school friend of mine who joined 9W as a FA just 8 months ago , went around to many countries and was quite happy and is now staring at an uncertain future ....
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:43 pm

anshabhi wrote:
There's a school friend of mine who joined 9W as a FA just 8 months ago , went around to many countries and was quite happy and is now staring at an uncertain future ....

Ask them to jump ship asap if they haven't already
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
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Revelation
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:58 pm

avier wrote:
Today's so-called important outcome on the airline :

Image

So the funds we were assured would be released Monday were released Monday?

Did that cat's ninth life just pass?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Speedbirdasia
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:08 pm

Jet airways is under an Indian Government controlled shutdown. That is the impression given with all the trickling news.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
avier wrote:
Today's so-called important outcome on the airline :

Image

So the funds we were assured would be released Monday were released Monday?

Did that cat's ninth life just pass?


No fund infusion happened today. Now they'll decide tomorrow.
Lenders want binding bids as assurance to pour in more money, where's as interested bidders want lenders to infuse funds first with turn around plan ready before they place formal binding bids. Either way, each wants the other to take a step first.
 
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:35 pm

unrave wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
There's a school friend of mine who joined 9W as a FA just 8 months ago , went around to many countries and was quite happy and is now staring at an uncertain future ....

Ask them to jump ship asap if they haven't already


Assuming the school friend is still undergraduate (of your age) , unrave's suggestion is right because he/she won't have other alternatives . The experienced ones with a degree still have better alternatives in other hospitality and tourism industry where experience as FA helps.
Salary wise currently 9W pays nearly same to freshers as the others unlike the case with experienced ones . So your friend won't have settle for 30% less income (like what happened to the pilots/engg)
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:37 pm

avier wrote:
Revelation wrote:
avier wrote:
Today's so-called important outcome on the airline :

Image

So the funds we were assured would be released Monday were released Monday?

Did that cat's ninth life just pass?


No fund infusion happened today. Now they'll decide tomorrow.
Lenders want binding bids as assurance to pour in more money, where's as interested bidders want lenders to infuse funds first with turn around plan ready before they place formal binding bids. Either way, each wants the other to take a step first.

Buyers need a business case. If the lenders do not help Jet, it is done.

This is a political mess that should have been fixed years ago. I'm sorry for the Jet employees. The fact they had to work with no compensation is just wrong.

Sad, but with all the new entrenched competition, Jet needs a far lower cost structure. Employees need to jump ship. I hope a fraction of Jet survives for employees sake, but I am unable to create a business case likely to go forward.

Lightsaber
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CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:50 pm

edealinfo wrote:
excellent update on spicejet plans in the link below
1. To launch a slew of flights from Mumbai to international destinations, for which they already operate flights. ( I think they are positioning Bombay to be a hub)

2. Getting 16 of ex Jet 737 aircraft that will be coming back to India, within just 7 days, after a fresh coat of exterior Spicejet branded paint.

3. The article provides additional details on availability of slots at Mumbai and Delhi.

4. My view regarding the slot availability— “the early bird catches the worm”. Spicejet moved fast and indigo is moving good. Vistara, Air Asia and GO, are sleeping at the wheels when the biggest opportunity in over a decade (to grab key slots) has opened up.

What I don’t get. Is why the Indian media has neglected stories on the slow pace of Vistara , Go, and Air Asia......and taking those airlines to task for poor planning in being opportunistic when it comes to slots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp


edealinfo - I know you are very confident that Spice's bet will 100% payoff. Maybe you are right. But you keep asking why the press is not slanting the story to you pov. Perhaps the press feels that those airlines are being responsible for not wasting money on rash airplane leases for temporary slots. When an airline only has 20 aircraft, the cost of ramping up 10 more aircraft to only then lose those slots 3-6 months from now, might not be worth it. That's really it. I don't think it is anymore complicated than that. No conspiracy. I think most of us on this board want the GOI to use an ordered approach in either saving Jet or reallocating the slots. The crony capitalism and lack of real rules has destroyed Indian aviation. Hence why most of us aren't rooting for your first come first serve approach after the govt publicly said they were temporary.
 
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:20 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
excellent update on spicejet plans in the link below
1. To launch a slew of flights from Mumbai to international destinations, for which they already operate flights. ( I think they are positioning Bombay to be a hub)

2. Getting 16 of ex Jet 737 aircraft that will be coming back to India, within just 7 days, after a fresh coat of exterior Spicejet branded paint.

3. The article provides additional details on availability of slots at Mumbai and Delhi.

4. My view regarding the slot availability— “the early bird catches the worm”. Spicejet moved fast and indigo is moving good. Vistara, Air Asia and GO, are sleeping at the wheels when the biggest opportunity in over a decade (to grab key slots) has opened up.

What I don’t get. Is why the Indian media has neglected stories on the slow pace of Vistara , Go, and Air Asia......and taking those airlines to task for poor planning in being opportunistic when it comes to slots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp


edealinfo - I know you are very confident that Spice's bet will 100% payoff. Maybe you are right. But you keep asking why the press is not slanting the story to you pov. Perhaps the press feels that those airlines are being responsible for not wasting money on rash airplane leases for temporary slots. When an airline only has 20 aircraft, the cost of ramping up 10 more aircraft to only then lose those slots 3-6 months from now, might not be worth it. That's really it. I don't think it is anymore complicated than that. No conspiracy. I think most of us on this board want the GOI to use an ordered approach in either saving Jet or reallocating the slots. The crony capitalism and lack of real rules has destroyed Indian aviation. Hence why most of us aren't rooting for your first come first serve approach after the govt publicly said they were temporary.

The stock market responded positively to the news of SpiceJet's growth. It is a tremendous growth opportunity for a small company. By right sizing flights (738) and a lower cost structure, I believe SpiceJet can make a profit where Jet didn't. Some of the routes should have been profitable for Jet:

https://www.financialexpress.com/market ... 8479/lite/

Mumbai business needs service. If it is anything but first come first serve crony capitalism will delay and dilute the benefits. I hope the nimble airlines keep their slots.

It is too late for the GoI to really help Jet. Oh, the name and other assets might end up at new Jet. Costs must be dramatically reduced.

India needs low cost transportation. SpiceJet will provide.

Temporary slots were always going to be reallocated.

Mumbai needs service now. Most business is perishable. The best thing for Indian aviation is to build new hub runways and terminals. So expedite construction at the new large airports (including ground transportation). Yes, the new rural airports sound great, but this is an industry where growth of less than 25 million passengers per year is the minimum worth discussing in my opinion.

Business that is slow is eventually bankrupt. I have no idea why only SpiceJet and Indigo saw the opportunity.

This will lower flight costs in India. That will enable business growth. Remember, most business is perishable. Either the opportunity is seized early, or growth missed.

Lightsaber
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:28 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The stock market responded positively to the news of SpiceJet's growth. It is a tremendous growth opportunity for a small company. By right sizing flights (738) and a lower cost structure, I believe SpiceJet can make a profit where Jet didn't. Some of the routes should have been profitable for Jet:
...
Lightsaber


Different POV. SpiceJet is being force-fed for potential winter hibernation. If Modi is not next PM, SpiceJet is toast. SG will face the same fate as 9W.

What SG trying to do is make itself relevant.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:32 pm

It looks like the big fight is for BOM-DXB seats. Jet abandoned a lucrative 13,000 seats/week. SpiceJet wants 12,000. AI also wants rights. I would be surprised if Indigo didn't want these rights to

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.livemint ... 72674.html

This is a case where the GoI should allocate.

Now, does anyone want AUH rights?
EK must be making up in per seat pricing what they lost in quantity.

What have India to EU or India to US fares done post Jet's collapse? I could be overestimating due to seasonal demand.

Lightsaber
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NeBaNi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:45 pm

anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
What I don’t get. Is why the Indian media has neglected stories on the slow pace of Vistara , Go, and Air Asia......and taking those airlines to task for poor planning in being opportunistic when it comes to slots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp


Scaling up rapidly is not an easy task by any means. It's pretty easy to run too high on your costs or resources and could quickly turn into a digging your own grave situation.
If the airline managements think it's better to go slow and think long term, good for them.

We have to see how SG will operate with only 156 Y seats and how will it manage the 12 J seats in 9W B738s.

If I remember correctly, expanding too rapidly was the exact reason why SG went burst in 2014.

About loans, Modi govt has not shown a single instance of absent mindedly Dolling out money to sick corporations and it's unlikely to happen here too. They are probably just getting reports from bankers and requesting them to do the best possible thing.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo - I know you are very confident that Spice's bet will 100% payoff. Maybe you are right. But you keep asking why the press is not slanting the story to you pov. Perhaps the press feels that those airlines are being responsible for not wasting money on rash airplane leases for temporary slots. When an airline only has 20 aircraft, the cost of ramping up 10 more aircraft to only then lose those slots 3-6 months from now, might not be worth it. That's really it. I don't think it is anymore complicated than that. No conspiracy. I think most of us on this board want the GOI to use an ordered approach in either saving Jet or reallocating the slots. The crony capitalism and lack of real rules has destroyed Indian aviation. Hence why most of us aren't rooting for your first come first serve approach after the govt publicly said they were temporary.

I think these two posts answer the questions you've posed perfectly, but let me just add something else here. It might also be that given Jet's massive downsizing, the temporary slot allocations are prioritized to those operators who can quickly backfill the massive loss of capacity (i.e. Jet's largest competitors). Like the others mentioned, it's much easier for larger airlines like 6E and SG to add lost capacity in the vacuum than for smaller players like Vistara or Air Asia India. Travelers are also assured nearly the same amount of capacity on key business routes like BOM-BLR, as shown by 6E jumping in with 5x new daily frequencies.

When the dust settles and slots are allocated more permanently, I think smaller carrier should and believe they will be allocated a larger share of the pie.
 
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:47 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The stock market responded positively to the news of SpiceJet's growth. It is a tremendous growth opportunity for a small company. By right sizing flights (738) and a lower cost structure, I believe SpiceJet can make a profit where Jet didn't. Some of the routes should have been profitable for Jet:
...
Lightsaber


Different POV. SpiceJet is being force-fed for potential winter hibernation. If Modi is not next PM, SpiceJet is toast. SG will face the same fate as 9W.

What SG trying to do is make itself relevant.

SpiceJet seems to be profitable now:
https://m.moneycontrol.com/stock/SJ01/f ... /quarterly

Last quarter was a tough quarter yet they made money. If you mean by relevant is to increase economy of scale, I agree. Advertising is a fixed cost for a fleet of 20 or 200. So growing at an opportunity is key.

Jet's failure made this quarter and next quarter easy moneymakers. Then a set of traditionally profitable quarters. So I think SpiceJet is on the right track.

India needs more low cost transit. This is an opportunity to expand. There are suddenly 1,600 pilots, many 737 pilots, in need of work. Indigo botched their pilot quantity and will need six months to 9 months to recover. Who else will expand quickly? I hope GoAir (I'm a Pratt fan), AirAsia, and Vistara too.

I'm in R&D, so I'm trained to think long term. The MAX and NEO open up so much international expansion opportunities for SpiceJet and Indigo. Those two have the cost structure to expand. Indigo has the cash, but not the pilots. (Oops).

India has gone from over served to under served. I believe the market is about 8% under-served today. I also believe the market is growing 15% to 20%. So there is opportunity for profits. Airlines with low costs will sail through the next over-supplied timeframe. I predict that over-supplied condition is 15 to 24 months out (dependent on growth rates of India's economy as well as airlines).

So yes, POV. Now is the time to make hay.

Lightsaber

Late edit:. Indigo was going to have 50% of their growth international in 2019. I wonder how Jet's failure impacts domestic vs. international growth. Obviously certain routes that were at their seat caps are key.

Does anyone have a list of the seats/week Jet abandoned? I'm only interested in capped markets.

It will be very interesting as to what EY does with the LHR slots that were Jet's.
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CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:20 pm

lightsaber wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The stock market responded positively to the news of SpiceJet's growth. It is a tremendous growth opportunity for a small company. By right sizing flights (738) and a lower cost structure, I believe SpiceJet can make a profit where Jet didn't. Some of the routes should have been profitable for Jet:
...
Lightsaber


Different POV. SpiceJet is being force-fed for potential winter hibernation. If Modi is not next PM, SpiceJet is toast. SG will face the same fate as 9W.

What SG trying to do is make itself relevant.

SpiceJet seems to be profitable now:
https://m.moneycontrol.com/stock/SJ01/f ... /quarterly

Last quarter was a tough quarter yet they made money. If you mean by relevant is to increase economy of scale, I agree. Advertising is a fixed cost for a fleet of 20 or 200. So growing at an opportunity is key.

Jet's failure made this quarter and next quarter easy moneymakers. Then a set of traditionally profitable quarters. So I think SpiceJet is on the right track.

India needs more low cost transit. This is an opportunity to expand. There are suddenly 1,600 pilots, many 737 pilots, in need of work. Indigo botched their pilot quantity and will need six months to 9 months to recover. Who else will expand quickly? I hope GoAir (I'm a Pratt fan), AirAsia, and Vistara too.

I'm in R&D, so I'm trained to think long term. The MAX and NEO open up so much international expansion opportunities for SpiceJet and Indigo. Those two have the cost structure to expand. Indigo has the cash, but not the pilots. (Oops).

India has gone from over served to under served. I believe the market is about 8% under-served today. I also believe the market is growing 15% to 20%. So there is opportunity for profits. Airlines with low costs will sail through the next over-supplied timeframe. I predict that over-supplied condition is 15 to 24 months out (dependent on growth rates of India's economy as well as airlines).

So yes, POV. Now is the time to make hay.

Lightsaber

Late edit:. Indigo was going to have 50% of their growth international in 2019. I wonder how Jet's failure impacts domestic vs. international growth. Obviously certain routes that were at their seat caps are key.

Does anyone have a list of the seats/week Jet abandoned? I'm only interested in capped markets.

It will be very interesting as to what EY does with the LHR slots that were Jet's.


Lightsaber - I don't get it. You say India had overcapacity before. Now that Jet is in trouble, instead of allowing the market to stabilize to the right size, you are advocating a mad dash to grab slots on the first come first serve basis (despite the govt saying it was temporary). How does this build a good process for aviation? You also threw in DXB slots. It doesn't need to be a mad dash and the smaller airlines should absolutely be given slots. Also the govt, with the govt banks, are still trying to save Jet or create a new Jet. Why would the govt be going through that process and at the same time dismantle all the value Jet has??? I have to say, I am really confused by your and edealinfo's posts. If your opinion is just kill Jet and let the banks not get anything for their debt own and have indigo be a bigger force in aviation, then your plan works best. Btw IMHO India needs as affordable air travel that is sustainable. Below cost airfare is destructive. The lowest tier of traffic that might be lost if fares rise say 5%, will travel via train. Business and tourists need stability in air travel. Employees want stable jobs as well.

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