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panamair
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:53 am

lightsaber wrote:
unrave wrote:
Management is likely to announce suspension of all operations soon.

That just ended their forward bookings:

A source for the temporary .grounding:

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RS0KL

Lightsaber


And yet in the same article, it says the banks (even quoting a PNB (one of the banks holding out on releasing funds) official) and “government officials” are still giving statements that they are working on a solution and that the “banks are not looking to take the airline to bankruptcy court”...what a circus..
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:11 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
More news coming out, although not confirmed yet:

16-Apr-2019 12:28:28 - RPT-U.S. EXIM BANK RECALLS ENTIRE 20 BLN RUPEES LOANS EXTENDED TO JET AIRWAYS TO RECOVER ALL OUTSTANDING DUES-ET NOW CITING SOURCES
16-Apr-2019 12:28:30 - REFILE-U.S. EXIM BANK WANTS TO TAKE POSSESSION OF ALL JET AIRCRAFT FUNDED BY THEM - ET NOW, CITING SOURCES (REMOVES EXTRANEOUS WORDS)

So basically 9W doesn't own a single asset at all


What about 4 Airbus A330-202, that are owned by Jet? (I suppose US EXIM is not financing those?)

On a separate note, for those floating "good bank/bad bank" solutions, what about JetKonnect? Is that a separate AOC/legal entity that could be salvaged from this collapse?
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:35 pm

Looks like Indian Media got orders to go after 9W 77Ws. April 8 report suggests these are Citibank owned backed by EXIM guarantee.

In September 2005, Jet Airways had signed a purchase agreement for 10 Boeing 777-300ER series aircraft with plans to start serving long-haul international destinations. According to The Economic Times, these aircraft were bought under a finance lease agreement. These work more like an EMI scheme whereby the lessee (Jet in this case) obtains ownership at the end of the tenure while in the case of operating lease agreements, the aircraft go back to the lessor.

Because of this factor, with Jet Airways having delayed repayments of over $18 million to global lenders- including Citibank- that had financed its purchase of the Boeing 777s on the back of guarantees from Export-Import (EXIM) Bank of the US, these planes are now at risk of being repossessed.


https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/av ... 35057.html
All posts are just opinions.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:53 pm

Phosphorus wrote:

What about 4 Airbus A330-202, that are owned by Jet? (I suppose US EXIM is not financing those?)

On a separate note, for those floating "good bank/bad bank" solutions, what about JetKonnect? Is that a separate AOC/legal entity that could be salvaged from this collapse?

They are in the books of Jet but banks might have a financial charge on them. JetLite is a separate AoC but it is 100% owned by Jet, can't see how it can be salvaged out of this mess.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:55 pm

More newsflashes coming out.
Take it with a big pinch of salt as its unconfirmed.
From Reuters:
16-Apr-2019 14:14:43 - JET AIRWAYS CEO ASKS SBI FOR IMMEDIATE INFUSION OF 4 BLN RUPEES, CO'S BOARD DECIDED TO GROUND AIRLINE IF NO REPLY RECEIVED FROM SBI- TV
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:04 pm

Easy prediction to make. No new credit from SBI. The curtain closes on 9W unless the EOIs cover a grounded airline and diminishing slots. How does one value an asset (?) with accelerating depreciation?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:49 pm

unrave wrote:
JetLite is a separate AoC but it is 100% owned by Jet, can't see how it can be salvaged out of this mess.


if it's on a separate AOC, owned by a separate legal entity -- part of Jet group, it can be sold to an interested investor group, to become a center of rebirth, to ensure continuity of operations. (Rather then to dump hundreds of mullions of dollars, just to keep Jet flying for a little longer).
But probably, this discussion, by now, is a bit academic. The "Jet Airways" we knew, from practical point of view, is borderline grounded. From customer point of view, it must be a "once was" airline.
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CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:57 pm

vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I am going to give the Jet unions the benefit of the doubt. I think they have behaved very responsibly through all this drama. Sad thing is because they didn’t go nuclear, the govt did nothing. Such a sad state of Indian affairs. Looks like the French/AF union approach is better suited for india rather than Southwest (meaning a responsible holistic big picture view of not hurting your employer while still fighting the fight)


I thought u were an investment banker.

Why is it the govt’s job to bail 9W or ensure there are ‘F’ or ‘J’ seats out of Bombay?

Actually Modi sarkar is ensuring that no fat cats get bailed out.


Where have I ever said the govt should bail them out? Jet should be restructured and sold so that the banks (meaning the govt recovers as much money as they can). People on this board keep thinking that the govt should just shut Jet down receiving ZERO rather than sell it so that their favorite airline can just pick up slots. That is the bailout that is being called for. This full process is being handled like a circus. It is not normal. I only brought up the unions because of comments where the govt will only do anything if there hand is pushed. Posters have said the banks can't even restructure Jet's debt so it can be sold without it looking like a Jet handout. I am only responding to people and taking their words as credible. Btw I agree with Lightsaber on the importance of aviation to India's economy and jobs. So, while I don't support bailouts, I understand why they happen. Also because it is important, you would have thought politicians would support some reasonable restructuring. But it is politics as usual.

And here we go on the BOM thing. What's next some comment about "Amreeka" or some South vs North nonsense or Surat is the center of the world...The Jet fiasco has so much real things to debate and talk about. I think we should stick to the topic at hand.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:41 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Actually Modi sarkar is ensuring that no fat cats get bailed out.

Also because it is important, you would have thought politicians would support some reasonable restructuring.


Modi is doing the restructuring alright, feeding his fat cats, moving capacity from 9W to SG and others. AI will pick up leftovers.

Sanjiv Kapoor tried to get loan/investment for TWO years, no one gave SG a single dollar. 9W have been trying for 8 months without a single dollar.
Ajay Singh walks in money starts flowing to buy 200 new planes.

Maran is bad, Ajay Singh is good
Goyal is bad, XYZ is good.

Credit lines/investment should be based on airline finances, not based on the owner's character.
All posts are just opinions.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Actually Modi sarkar is ensuring that no fat cats get bailed out.

Also because it is important, you would have thought politicians would support some reasonable restructuring.


Modi is doing the restructuring alright, feeding his fat cats, moving capacity from 9W to SG and others. AI will pick up leftovers.

Sanjiv Kapoor tried to get loan/investment for TWO years, no one gave SG a single dollar. 9W have been trying for 8 months without a single dollar.
Ajay Singh walks in money starts flowing to buy 200 new planes.

Maran is bad, Ajay Singh is good
Goyal is bad, XYZ is good.

Credit lines/investment should be based on airline finances, not based on the owner's character.

Are you implying Ajay Singh made no improvements in SG operationally?

Is there any public record of SG being given money unethically?

Do you know even 9W has 225 outstanding orders for MAX?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:59 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Are you implying Ajay Singh made no improvements in SG operationally?

Is there any public record of SG being given money unethically?

Do you know even 9W has 225 outstanding orders for MAX?


Employees were happier before he came in. DGCA is ignoring SG's FDTL abuses. So much for ethics.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. BJP is getting a lot of funds from unknown sources, same channels may be available for Singh.

Ya, just weeks before SG was returning planes to the lessors, it has to be a miracle turn around to order 225 planes.

SG is not a success story, suspicious at best.
Last edited by dtw2hyd on Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:00 pm

panamair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
unrave wrote:
Management is likely to announce suspension of all operations soon.

That just ended their forward bookings:

A source for the temporary .grounding:

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RS0KL

Lightsaber


And yet in the same article, it says the banks (even quoting a PNB (one of the banks holding out on releasing funds) official) and “government officials” are still giving statements that they are working on a solution and that the “banks are not looking to take the airline to bankruptcy court”...what a circus..



Everyone who doesn't have to sign the documents and risk their career is quite confident the money will be delivered.

The day is today:.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RS0KL

Now, I assume that means the next business day.

I believe within 48 hours, we will know Jet's fate. If there is a temporary shutdown, if Jet restarts, it will be Jet2.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:06 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Are you implying Ajay Singh made no improvements in SG operationally?

Is there any public record of SG being given money unethically?

Do you know even 9W has 225 outstanding orders for MAX?


Employees were happier before he came in. DGCA is ignoring SG's FDTL abuses. So much for ethics.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. BJP is getting a lot of funds from unknown sources, same channels may be available for Singh.

Ya, just weeks before SG was returning planes to the lessors, it has to be a miracle turn around to order 225 planes.

SG is not a success story, suspicious at best.


FACTCHECK
The only airline benefitted from ill gotten funds was Jet Airways with its Dawoodi investments. Thankfully it will soon be history.
SpiceJet did not turnaround overnight, Its operations shrunk significantly, contracts renegotiated and cash balance built before it could think about expansion.

SG turnaround should be case study in B schools.
NG should also be a case study - on how fraudulent businessmen fool the system in India for personal gains.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:18 pm

lightsaber wrote:
panamair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
That just ended their forward bookings:

A source for the temporary .grounding:

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RS0KL

Lightsaber


And yet in the same article, it says the banks (even quoting a PNB (one of the banks holding out on releasing funds) official) and “government officials” are still giving statements that they are working on a solution and that the “banks are not looking to take the airline to bankruptcy court”...what a circus..



Everyone who doesn't have to sign the documents and risk their career is quite confident the money will be delivered.

The day is today:.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RS0KL

Now, I assume that means the next business day.

I believe within 48 hours, we will know Jet's fate. If there is a temporary shutdown, if Jet restarts, it will be Jet2.

Lightsaber


That is what should happen. Jet part 2. So if the govt needs air cover, then shut Jet down. The unions should settle - all employees who want to leave, should be allowed. The new buyer can decide who they want to hire. Same goes for planes etc. Back pay, lease payments, IFE payments ain't happening. The sooner people move on, the sooner a new Jet can rise. Question is, does India allow things like a Jet 2? Indian bankruptcy rules seem a mess (or non existent). I get that it might be hard for Goyal to own Jet 2. But could someone else?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:28 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
panamair wrote:

And yet in the same article, it says the banks (even quoting a PNB (one of the banks holding out on releasing funds) official) and “government officials” are still giving statements that they are working on a solution and that the “banks are not looking to take the airline to bankruptcy court”...what a circus..



Everyone who doesn't have to sign the documents and risk their career is quite confident the money will be delivered.

The day is today:.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RS0KL

Now, I assume that means the next business day.

I believe within 48 hours, we will know Jet's fate. If there is a temporary shutdown, if Jet restarts, it will be Jet2.

Lightsaber



9W has no assets worth being taken to bankruptcy court for and Jet is a terrible name for an airline.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:35 pm

I think Jet 2 is already taken.....

Anyway, a country like India should be able to support a decent FSC if they make wise buisness decisions, so hopefully if a phoenix company arrises they keep out those people who should not be involved.

There is a lot of talk of growth in Indian aviation, but that growth is in people newly able to fly which is the bottom end of the fare spectrum. And I doubt that as those people gain more wealth it will be used to pay for more expensive airfares. There is a place but the market has changed in air travel everywhere in the past and I do not see India being some bastion against that tide.

At the end of the day capitalism has winners and losers, this round Jet lost, governments job is to ensure that people are not adversely harmed in the process and ensuring there is a process for a proper redistribution of resources.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:38 pm

anshabhi wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:


Everyone who doesn't have to sign the documents and risk their career is quite confident the money will be delivered.

The day is today:.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1RS0KL

Now, I assume that means the next business day.

I believe within 48 hours, we will know Jet's fate. If there is a temporary shutdown, if Jet restarts, it will be Jet2.

Lightsaber



9W has no assets worth being taken to bankruptcy court for and Jet is a terrible name for an airline.


It is worth what ever it is worth. They have slots, infrastructure, trained employees, sourcing chains etc etc. All of that costs money to build. Simple business when you by something in receivership (or bankruptcy - what ever).
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:02 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
It is worth what ever it is worth. They have slots, infrastructure, trained employees, sourcing chains etc etc. All of that costs money to build. Simple business when you by something in receivership (or bankruptcy - what ever).

you are right, in principle. Trouble is, if there is no legal way (as Indian members insist) to untangle worthwhile stuff -- like slots, AOC, etc., from the legal entity that is sinking under the mountain of debt.
As long as those key components stay with the sinking ship, you don't have an entity, where to evacuate other valuables that you've mentioned...
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vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:43 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Where have I ever said the govt should bail them out?


Fair enough

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Jet should be restructured and sold so that the banks (meaning the govt recovers as much money as they can).


Agreed! The govt. really has no clue how to handle this since it has a bigger problem on its hand called Air India

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Btw I agree with Lightsaber on the importance of aviation to India's economy and jobs. So, while I don't support bailouts, I understand why they happen. Also because it is important, you would have thought politicians would support some reasonable restructuring. But it is politics as usual.


Lightsabre obviously is a ver knowledgable guy (or gal). A fact that he/she seems to miss is that the Indian market is growing thru the 2nd and 3rd tier cities. 9W makes no difference to it.

Actually, it did for cities like Vadodara! If you had status and needed a quick connection to ME, 9W was a better choice.
BTW, I find it amusing when the Surat guys post some crazy ideas but they did have a point. The govt. has prevented STV's growth and data has shown it was such a huge untapped market.
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Modi is doing the restructuring alright, feeding his fat cats, moving capacity from 9W to SG and others. AI will pick up leftovers.

Sanjiv Kapoor tried to get loan/investment for TWO years, no one gave SG a single dollar. 9W have been trying for 8 months without a single dollar.
Ajay Singh walks in money starts flowing to buy 200 new planes.

Maran is bad, Ajay Singh is good
Goyal is bad, XYZ is good.

Credit lines/investment should be based on airline finances, not based on the owner's character.


Some fact check please? Maran could not make money even with a favorable govt and a very friendly investment climate.
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:46 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Are you implying Ajay Singh made no improvements in SG operationally?

Is there any public record of SG being given money unethically?

Do you know even 9W has 225 outstanding orders for MAX?


Umm yes! Likes of Ajay Singh, the IndiGo guys, who run a tight shop are because of govt. favors!
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:56 pm

Btw Delta.com is still selling Jet award flights for winter season. So strange. Tons of availability!!!
 
acavpics
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:41 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
unrave wrote:
JetLite is a separate AoC but it is 100% owned by Jet, can't see how it can be salvaged out of this mess.


if it's on a separate AOC, owned by a separate legal entity -- part of Jet group, it can be sold to an interested investor group, to become a center of rebirth, to ensure continuity of operations. (Rather then to dump hundreds of mullions of dollars, just to keep Jet flying for a little longer).
But probably, this discussion, by now, is a bit academic. The "Jet Airways" we knew, from practical point of view, is borderline grounded. From customer point of view, it must be a "once was" airline.


I thought JetLite ceased operations in 2012, when the group combined it with JetKonnect ,which was integrated into 9W mainline in December 2014?
 
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CPS001
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:51 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Btw Delta.com is still selling Jet award flights for winter season. So strange. Tons of availability!!!


Even ANA and others are selling Jet flights in the winter. Interesting.
 
VTORD
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:33 am

CPS001 wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Btw Delta.com is still selling Jet award flights for winter season. So strange. Tons of availability!!!


Even ANA and others are selling Jet flights in the winter. Interesting.


Yup! Was checking some SFO-BOM for the winter and sure enough SFO-DEL-BOM is available on UA-9W. Interesting though that lately UK has been showing up on the UA and LH website as a DEL connecting option.Wasn't aware they have a codeshare with LH-UA.
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:01 am

Yep - but there is little or no risk to the interline partners due to the way that interline billing & settlement work
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:48 am

Lenders unwilling to infuse even 400 cr to sustain ops & pay salaries. Want binding bids from interested parties before they decide to help the airline.
Sad twist to the tale. If EY is playing around even now by faking interest in the airline, sad for the employees and even consumers to some extent.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:51 am

9W-2502 (ATQ-BOM-DEL) on VT-SJI tonight will be last flight of Jet Airways before a temporary closure.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
smartplane
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:08 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Asiaflyer wrote:
More news coming out, although not confirmed yet:

16-Apr-2019 12:28:28 - RPT-U.S. EXIM BANK RECALLS ENTIRE 20 BLN RUPEES LOANS EXTENDED TO JET AIRWAYS TO RECOVER ALL OUTSTANDING DUES-ET NOW CITING SOURCES
16-Apr-2019 12:28:30 - REFILE-U.S. EXIM BANK WANTS TO TAKE POSSESSION OF ALL JET AIRCRAFT FUNDED BY THEM - ET NOW, CITING SOURCES (REMOVES EXTRANEOUS WORDS)


Either this is fake news or a lot of details are missing.

1) EXIM gives guarantees on brand new sales. It doesn't give loans.
2) 10-12 year after the sale, multiple refinances, secondary liens later, I sincerely doubt EXIM has any interest left on these.
3) Commercial Banks which actually own these assets may very well want to repossess, but I think ET is just trying to spice up the story by throwing EXIM there.

EXIM USA will approve loans for up to 12 year terms. The core business are guarantees.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:17 pm

vadodara wrote:
Lightsabre obviously is a ver knowledgable guy (or gal). A fact that he/she seems to miss is that the Indian market is growing thru the 2nd and 3rd tier cities. 9W makes no difference to it.
.

First, thank you for the compliment. My profile is accurate, I'm a dude.

Growth in those 3rd tier cities is mostly to 1st tier. I believe the 9W ATRs made a difference there. I also believe between SpiceJet and Indigo's ATR expansion that the market will be adequately served.

I fully admit to focusing on 1st tier markets. I believe in the mega urbanization trend and that in India the new airports at Mumbai and Delhi will add far more traffic over their first decade than all the new airports and existing 3rd tier airports.

India aviation has an exciting future ahead. It will help India's economy grow. What is needed is large hubs.

9W played an important role in the hubbing. The issue was their unit costs were above revenue. Since the replacement unit costs are about 70% of what Jet's were, this will allow faster growth at a profit.

As I posted before, but I shall word differently, it simply isn't possible to replace the lost Jet capacity fast enough to bring fares back down to the over supplied prices for 15 months even if Jet restarts. Because of that, the airlines that grab the high premium markets, which is always tier 1, will make exceptional profits.

Airlines had better keep costs in check as within 24 months I forsee the market returning to over supplied. It will then be over supplied with the two lowest cost providers healthier financially and expanded substantially. Heck, GoAir has enough time to reorganize properly.

3rd tier cities are interesting, but might be 10% of the growth.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:43 pm

lightsaber wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Lightsabre obviously is a ver knowledgable guy (or gal). A fact that he/she seems to miss is that the Indian market is growing thru the 2nd and 3rd tier cities. 9W makes no difference to it.
.


Growth in those 3rd tier cities is mostly to 1st tier. I believe the 9W ATRs made a difference there. I also believe between SpiceJet and Indigo's ATR expansion that the market will be adequately served.

I fully admit to focusing on 1st tier markets. I believe in the mega urbanization trend and that in India the new airports at Mumbai and Delhi will add far more traffic over their first decade than all the new airports and existing 3rd tier airports.


Well said, and agree with your analysis. The growth at those 3rd tier cities is in fact to Tier 1 cities, and not really amongst tier 2 and tier 3 towns. So can't exclude tier 1 cities from this equation like being suggested by the above user. The mega city hubs will also be used as a hub to far away int'l routes.
So 1st Tier cities will always remain the focus for all airlines, to whatever new connections have to be made, be it Tier 2/3 or new virgin int'l routes. Tier 2 towns will see growth in the usual limited int'l connections to say DXB or BKK, but that's about it.
 
VTCIE
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:22 pm

Which tier, in your opinion, do MAA, HYD and CCU fall under? BLR is unquestionably Tier 1 and AMD is more likely to be Tier 2 than 1, but these three could be either Tier 1 or 2, as their share of the international traffic is less.

From a non-aviation perspective, of course, MAA, HYD, CCU and AMD are all Tier 1.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:30 pm

avier wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Lightsabre obviously is a ver knowledgable guy (or gal). A fact that he/she seems to miss is that the Indian market is growing thru the 2nd and 3rd tier cities. 9W makes no difference to it.
.


Growth in those 3rd tier cities is mostly to 1st tier. I believe the 9W ATRs made a difference there. I also believe between SpiceJet and Indigo's ATR expansion that the market will be adequately served.

I fully admit to focusing on 1st tier markets. I believe in the mega urbanization trend and that in India the new airports at Mumbai and Delhi will add far more traffic over their first decade than all the new airports and existing 3rd tier airports.


Well said, and agree with your analysis. The growth at those 3rd tier cities is in fact to Tier 1 cities, and not really amongst tier 2 and tier 3 towns. So can't exclude tier 1 cities from this equation like being suggested by the above user. The mega city hubs will also be used as a hub to far away int'l routes.
So 1st Tier cities will always remain the focus for all airlines, to whatever new connections have to be made, be it Tier 2/3 or new virgin int'l routes. Tier 2 towns will see growth in the usual limited int'l connections to say DXB or BKK, but that's about it.


Both your posts make a ton of sense. I don't have the hard stats, but I bet inbound business and tourist visits from Tier 2 & 3 to Tier 1 cities are also heavily skewed to DEL & BOM as well. Also I think 9W's loss affects all the cities they served in India. These cities lost an option. Will someone come in - sure/maybe. To say that who cares about 9W because they don't fly to AMS from my city (or whatever the original poster meant) misses the broader point on Indian aviation. I hope an Indian airline rises to the occasion and steps in for Jet. I think domestically this will happen (I just hope we get city/route diversity out of BOM and not just everyone flying BOM-DEL, BOM-BLR etc - which is why I think there should be a process on slot allocations). Internationally, I don't think any Indian airline will step in on the long haul routes for at least a few years. Which is sad. Foreign airlines will come in - so I am not worried about my ability to get to BOM (as one poster asked). For over a decade, many of us avoided Indians airlines - read air India - on our flights to India. Jet changed that. Whatever your view might be of Jet, at least give them some credit. Their flights from the EU-India were packed with both Indians, NRIs and foreigners. Their service might not have been world class, but it was really good. And it was Indian to its core. I loved their service and multiple choices of Indian food in J - it is a novelty for me (I get it an Indian origin pax might not care). My mom loved that their staff helped and respected older people. For the volume they carried, there are surprisingly few super negative trip reports. So kudos to them for all that. Too bad they didn't know how to operate profitably.
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:47 pm

I'm still amazed the stock is trading around its band of resistance despite basically being shut down.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 916
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:48 pm

Last chunk of news out on Reuters.
Is this the nail in the coffin for9W?

17-Apr-2019 15:29:16 - JET AIRWAYS (INDIA) LTD JET.NS SAYS JET AIRWAYS ANNOUNCES TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OF FLIGHT OPERATIONS
17-Apr-2019 15:30:05 - JET AIRWAYS - CO INFORMED BY SBI, ON BEHALF OF THE CONSORTIUM OF INDIAN LENDERS ON TUES, THAT THEY ARE UNABLE TO CONSIDER REQUEST FOR INTERIM FUNDING
17-Apr-2019 15:30:21 - JET AIRWAYS - AIRLINE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY FOR FUEL OR OTHER CRITICAL SERVICES TO KEEP THE OPERATIONS GOING
17-Apr-2019 15:30:34 - JET AIRWAYS - WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT, CO IS COMPELLED TO CANCEL ALL ITS INTERNATIONAL AND DOMESTIC FLIGHTS
17-Apr-2019 15:30:58 - JET AIRWAYS - LAST FLIGHT WILL OPERATE TODAY
17-Apr-2019 15:31:19 - JET AIRWAYS - INFORMED DGCA, AND MINISTRIES OF CIVIL AVIATION AND FINANCE AND OTHER RELEVANT GOVERNMENT INSTITUTIONS, OF THIS COURSE OF ACTION
17-Apr-2019 15:31:46 - JET AIRWAYS - ESSENTIAL SERVICES NEEDED TO SUPPORT GUEST SERVICES AND RE-COMMENCEMENT OF FLIGHT OPS WILL BE KEPT ONBOARD UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE
17-Apr-2019 15:32:11 - JET AIRWAYS - WILL NOW AWAIT THE BID FINALISATION PROCESS BY SBI AND THE CONSORTIUM OF INDIAN LENDERS
 
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unrave
Posts: 2682
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:11 pm

Antarius wrote:
I'm still amazed the stock is trading around its band of resistance despite basically being shut down.

Indian markets were closed today. There'll be a sharp fall tomorrow.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
blr380
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:33 am

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:16 pm

unrave wrote:
@lightsaber time to change the title of the thread: Jet Airways suspends operations

Yes - I liked the original title although several people were not able to digest the fact. Now, it's post-mortem time. Mr. Goyal - please join VJM for a happy hour in London!
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:25 pm

 
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OA940
Posts: 1990
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:44 pm

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAI927

This appears to be their last flight. There's another one but it's gonna land about 15 minutes ahead. A truly sad day.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:45 pm

What happens now with the EOIs?
 
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TWA302
Posts: 741
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Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:51 pm

Well, 39 738s just became readily available to someone in need.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:52 pm

Wow. Not unexpected, but still amazing. The contrast between SpiceJet and Jet should be a business case study. It will be expensive to restart.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
DALMD80
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:02 pm

Well... Who's next? WOW, Jet... EasyJet? RyanAir?
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
winginit
Posts: 2890
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:06 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
Well... Who's next? WOW, Jet... EasyJet? RyanAir?


I mean, no, two very healthy and successful airlines are definitely not next. More like Alitalia? Norwegian?
 
DALMD80
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:08 pm

I though Alitalia was in good standing. I was just thinking budget carriers.
2 things- Wear a mask, and vote. It's that simple.
 
Breathe
Posts: 671
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Jet Airways Latest Developments Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:13 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Well, 39 738s just became readily available to someone in need.

Operators with MAXs in their fleet will no doubt be scrambling to look at getting hold of these planes if they fit the bill.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:13 pm

So the EOI deadline for finding bids is May 10th. Is that still the case? How does an airline shut down for a month and then restart without being sold in pieces? What I mean is old Jet would seem almost impossible to restart. There would be way too many liabilities. Are the banks really prevented from selling off pieces of Jet? If so for how long? Who get's Jet's 77W? How long do the banks have to store them before they liquidate them? How long are employees on the books accumulating salary liability? I know we all aren't fully versed in Indian bankruptcy laws, but I would think the press would start to right about it.
 
Breathe
Posts: 671
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:14 pm

DALMD80 wrote:
I though Alitalia was in good standing. I was just thinking budget carriers.

Alitalia is a financial mess!
 
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klm617
Posts: 5043
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:23 pm

The question is how did Delta make such a big mistake by partnering with these guys.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
Posts: 2890
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Jet Airways Updated:. Opperations suspended

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:25 pm

klm617 wrote:
The question is how did Delta make such a big mistake by partnering with these guys.


Is that the question? It was a simple codeshare nothing more and it's really no skin off Delta's nose. I don't recall 'the questions' of the past being 'How did American make such a big mistake by partnering with AirBerlin' or Mexicana... or Kingfisher...

Additionally, the real question is of course how did Etihad make such a big mistake by buying 24% of these guys?
Last edited by winginit on Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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