dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:07 pm

Inability to pay for 78Ms is a blessing in disguise for 9W.

I still don't understand the hesitation to return old leased frames. They should be returning any excess 737NGs in fly-away condition and settle lease-end condition penalties later. I am hoping lessors won't mind taking back in relatively good condition rather than let them rot in India.

9W should get over the stigma attached to cutting the fleet size and losing marking share.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Inability to pay for 78Ms is a blessing in disguise for 9W.

I still don't understand the hesitation to return old leased frames. They should be returning any excess 737NGs in fly-away condition and settle lease-end condition penalties later. I am hoping lessors won't mind taking back in relatively good condition rather than let them rot in India.

9W should get over the stigma attached to cutting the fleet size and losing marking share.


There is also the stigma that everyone else is flying NEO or MAX planes and 9W would be in the prior generation. Then again, can India support 7 mainline carriers when one has 42 percent of the domestic market share in 6E? (I'm counting AI and IX as one.)
 
blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 am

Jet gets Rs 2050 crore line of credit against its simulators and other receivables from PNB. I hope this LiveMint link is not considered flame-bait :roll:

Jet Airways gets ₹2,050 crore loan from PNB

Mumbai: Jet Airways (India) Ltd has secured fresh credit facilities of ₹2,050 crore from state-run Punjab National Bank (PNB) that could provide a temporary lifeline to the cash-strapped airline. The Mumbai-based airline has raised foreign currency term loans worth ₹1,100 crore and a non-fund based credit facility of ₹950 crore from PNB, according to loan documents, copies of which were reviewed by Mint.
...
Both the term loans have a five-year repayment tenure, although their interest rates vary. The ₹750 crore loan has been sanctioned at a rate of 12-month Libor plus 5%, with a yearly reset. The rate for the ₹300 crore term loan is 6-month Libor plus 3.5%, with a half-yearly reset. The loan agreement was signed on 14 January.
...
...
As a precondition to availing the credit facility, Jet Airways has created a trust and retention account (TRA) by entering into a tripartite agreement with PNB and ICICI Merchant Services Pvt. Ltd. A TRA mechanism—popular in infrastructure projects—is structured to protect lenders against the borrower defaulting by sequestering the project’s cash flows. This is achieved by giving the TRA agent control over future cash flows.
...
PNB’s ₹2,050 crore credit facility to Jet Airways has been secured against its four flight training simulators, trade receivables coming to ICICI Merchant Services and any additional receivables coming to TRA by virtue of Jet Airways’ agreement with PNB or any other merchant services provider in the future.
...
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:41 am

Buried in the article is the way the cash flows are structured: the loan will be repaid from an escrow account to which the cash flows will accrue. Nobody trusts Jet's ability to service its debt.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:33 am

The PNB loan just removed all of EY's leverage to negotiate better terms for EY.
Is EY content with being a minor shareholder, or will they write a big check to get 24.9%?
EY's owners have a full plate, don't they, between 9W, the demise of the A380, shrinking fleet, and Godzilla up the road.
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:52 am

LIBOR +5% is pretty hefty if that is for USD loan. Equivalent to about a "B" rating.

Though, frankly better than I would expect if this was a pure commerical loan - ICRA rating is C....
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:59 am

lutfi wrote:
ICRA rating is C....

ICRA rating is D. The airline is in default
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
downdata
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:05 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Inability to pay for 78Ms is a blessing in disguise for 9W.

I still don't understand the hesitation to return old leased frames. They should be returning any excess 737NGs in fly-away condition and settle lease-end condition penalties later. I am hoping lessors won't mind taking back in relatively good condition rather than let them rot in India.

9W should get over the stigma attached to cutting the fleet size and losing marking share.


Imagine if they were to flew one into the ground... there'd be no way back
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:55 am

WPvsMW wrote:
The PNB loan just removed all of EY's leverage to negotiate better terms for EY.
Is EY content with being a minor shareholder, or will they write a big check to get 24.9%?
EY's owners have a full plate, don't they, between 9W, the demise of the A380, shrinking fleet, and Godzilla up the road.


Not really - they can now decide not to invest at all, and be diluted down, and allow the govt banks to bail Jet out, rather than have to make decision of invest 100m USD or have Jet go bankrupt. So the risk to their existing investment has been reduced.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:43 am

lutfi wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The PNB loan just removed all of EY's leverage to negotiate better terms for EY.
Is EY content with being a minor shareholder, or will they write a big check to get 24.9%?
EY's owners have a full plate, don't they, between 9W, the demise of the A380, shrinking fleet, and Godzilla up the road.


Not really - they can now decide not to invest at all, and be diluted down, and allow the govt banks to bail Jet out, rather than have to make decision of invest 100m USD or have Jet go bankrupt. So the risk to their existing investment has been reduced.


Yeah, EY should dilute and pull out completely. They are of no use in any way. Maybe if they fully exit, could there be a chance of a foreign carrier like QR picking up 9W for cheap? Off course they'll have to pump in cash, and they are one airline that can. Be better than starting a whole new airline from scratch in India like they had planned.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:35 am

Goyal warns Jet's situation is precarious.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 949682.amp

In my opinion, EY must make sure they are not throwing good money after bad.

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edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:00 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Goyal warns Jet's situation is precarious.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 949682.amp

In my opinion, EY must make sure they are not throwing good money after bad.

Lightsaber

Etihad’s decision today at its Board Meeting will decide the fate of Jet. Will they cave or will they take a high stakes bet that if they don’t, the Government will nevertheless save Jet to prevent a negative fallout just 2 to 3 months before the nationwide elections. How would you roll the dice if you were Etihad?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:37 pm

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Goyal warns Jet's situation is precarious.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 949682.amp

In my opinion, EY must make sure they are not throwing good money after bad.

Lightsaber

Etihad’s decision today at its Board Meeting will decide the fate of Jet. Will they cave or will they take a high stakes bet that if they don’t, the Government will nevertheless save Jet to prevent a negative fallout just 2 to 3 months before the nationwide elections. How would you roll the dice if you were Etihad?

Etihad has information we lack. There decision needs to be on ROI on the new investment and not to fall for the sunk cost fallacy.

I await the decision. This decision determines Jet's long term fate. I agree with the premise that the GoI will try to keep Jet flying. But if Etihad says no, I expect another two dozen aircraft to be grounded before the election, perhaps more.

Lightsaber
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vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:42 pm

avier wrote:
lutfi wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The PNB loan just removed all of EY's leverage to negotiate better terms for EY.
Is EY content with being a minor shareholder, or will they write a big check to get 24.9%?
EY's owners have a full plate, don't they, between 9W, the demise of the A380, shrinking fleet, and Godzilla up the road.


Not really - they can now decide not to invest at all, and be diluted down, and allow the govt banks to bail Jet out, rather than have to make decision of invest 100m USD or have Jet go bankrupt. So the risk to their existing investment has been reduced.


Yeah, EY should dilute and pull out completely. They are of no use in any way. Maybe if they fully exit, could there be a chance of a foreign carrier like QR picking up 9W for cheap? Off course they'll have to pump in cash, and they are one airline that can. Be better than starting a whole new airline from scratch in India like they had planned.


Regardless of EY’s status, they still own equity and debt. They have a right to protect their investment.

They are also correct in not putting anything else till the NG issue is resolved. It is hard to fathom if QR or anyone else will put up so long as NG is present.

Perhaps BoD (Bank of Dawood) might be the only option.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Excerpts from NG's letter to Etihad management on 8MAR19

Jet Airways in very precarious position, over 50 aircraft grounded & increasing arrears of vendors & salaries... need for interim funding imperative. Non-receipt of interim funding will be severely (detrimental) to airline future, leading to its grounding which is something all of us, incl banks & other stakeholders, have worked assiduously to avoid over last few months


When we predicted the same thing 8 months back some social media sock puppet accounts were crying hoarse about it all being a PRHatchetJob. Wonder where they are now.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:03 pm

lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Goyal warns Jet's situation is precarious.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 949682.amp

In my opinion, EY must make sure they are not throwing good money after bad.

Lightsaber

Etihad’s decision today at its Board Meeting will decide the fate of Jet. Will they cave or will they take a high stakes bet that if they don’t, the Government will nevertheless save Jet to prevent a negative fallout just 2 to 3 months before the nationwide elections. How would you roll the dice if you were Etihad?

Etihad has information we lack. There decision needs to be on ROI on the new investment and not to fall for the sunk cost fallacy.

I await the decision. This decision determines Jet's long term fate. I agree with the premise that the GoI will try to keep Jet flying. But if Etihad says no, I expect another two dozen aircraft to be grounded before the election, perhaps more.

Lightsaber


I don’t think this is a ROI issue or throwing good money to bad. This is a big game that is going on IMHO. EY is clearly trying to benefit from the govt bailout (meaning it knows the GOI won’t let Jet fail). It basically wants the GOI to save Jet and let EY have control. And the GOI is obviously balking at that because why should they subsidize a foreigner (govts save domestic businesses all the time). That is why the GOI approved this most recent loan. I think they are sending a clear message to the EY board that if they are not reasonable, then the public sector Indian banks wil take over. I think EY’s main leverage so far has been because the UAE (read AUH) govt is pretty close to India, so the GOI can’t strong arm EY (which the banks would normally have every right to do). Let’s see what happens. Either way I don’t think there is any chance of EY walking away from Jet - Jet is not Alitalia. India is probably the most important market for the UAE. The more strategic assets the UAE owns in India, the more leverage they have in the future and vice versa, the more the UAE owns in India, the better they will treat India. Some how, the UAE and India have more or less managed to structure a win win relationship. Hence this crazy dame. Just my 2 cents happy to be proven wrong.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:55 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Etihad’s decision today at its Board Meeting will decide the fate of Jet. Will they cave or will they take a high stakes bet that if they don’t, the Government will nevertheless save Jet to prevent a negative fallout just 2 to 3 months before the nationwide elections. How would you roll the dice if you were Etihad?

Etihad has information we lack. There decision needs to be on ROI on the new investment and not to fall for the sunk cost fallacy.

I await the decision. This decision determines Jet's long term fate. I agree with the premise that the GoI will try to keep Jet flying. But if Etihad says no, I expect another two dozen aircraft to be grounded before the election, perhaps more.

Lightsaber


I don’t think this is a ROI issue or throwing good money to bad. This is a big game that is going on IMHO. EY is clearly trying to benefit from the govt bailout (meaning it knows the GOI won’t let Jet fail). It basically wants the GOI to save Jet and let EY have control. And the GOI is obviously balking at that because why should they subsidize a foreigner (govts save domestic businesses all the time). That is why the GOI approved this most recent loan. I think they are sending a clear message to the EY board that if they are not reasonable, then the public sector Indian banks wil take over. I think EY’s main leverage so far has been because the UAE (read AUH) govt is pretty close to India, so the GOI can’t strong arm EY (which the banks would normally have every right to do). Let’s see what happens. Either way I don’t think there is any chance of EY walking away from Jet - Jet is not Alitalia. India is probably the most important market for the UAE. The more strategic assets the UAE owns in India, the more leverage they have in the future and vice versa, the more the UAE owns in India, the better they will treat India. Some how, the UAE and India have more or less managed to structure a win win relationship. Hence this crazy dame. Just my 2 cents happy to be proven wrong.

Reasonable depends on the side of the table. I think we are deep in ROI calculations and the restrictions placed on EY make the case close.

I have no idea how the EY BoD will vote. I do not see an easy decision. The GoI can try to string along EY; but the foolish management who invested in Air Berlin, Alitalia, and Jet has been fired. I disagree on no chance; it should be 50/50.

We find out soon.

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behramjee
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:50 pm

Any update on EY Board meeting outcome as it’s 9pm in UAE now.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:02 pm

Jet has denied having secured the PNB loan facility that was reported by Mint earlier today
https://in.reuters.com/article/us-jet-a ... NKBN1QS0C8
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:17 pm

behramjee wrote:
Any update on EY Board meeting outcome as it’s 9pm in UAE now.

Looks like Etihad caved



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 14644.html
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:25 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
The PNB loan just removed all of EY's leverage to negotiate better terms for EY.
Is EY content with being a minor shareholder, or will they write a big check to get 24.9%?
EY's owners have a full plate, don't they, between 9W, the demise of the A380, shrinking fleet, and Godzilla up the road.


So, if LiveMint's anonymous source is correct, EY wrote the check to increase EY's ownership interest rather than walk away.
9W's PR release denying the PNB loan is probably prophylactic in view of a confidentiality provision, news embargo, or conditions subsequent, e.g., NG's resignation, other investment/lending.

9W should put a phoenix in their livery.
Last edited by WPvsMW on Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:26 pm

I actually haven’t seen a news report that specifically states that the Etihad Board, at its meeting today, approved of a plan to invest in Jet
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:33 pm

edealinfo wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Any update on EY Board meeting outcome as it’s 9pm in UAE now.

Looks like Etihad caved



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 14644.html


So Etihad has 24.9%, banks 29.5%, Goyal 14% and a mysterious investor (NIIF???) will hold 24.9%

All’s well that ends well — Modi is happy, Etihad is somewhat happy, Jet is thrilled, Jet Employees are rejoicing, banks are happy that their debt is not classsifed as bad debt, and vendors are happy they will be paid. The only one screwed is the Indian taxpayer. But, since when is that an issue since they have been screwed with Air India for decades.
Last edited by edealinfo on Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:35 pm

edealinfo wrote:
I actually haven’t seen a news report that specifically states that the Etihad Board, at its meeting today, approved of a plan to invest in Jet

Nor I. Just Goyal's expectation.

I did see another loan was defaulted upon:

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 938_1.html

Did EY's board approve?

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edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:45 pm

See the top story on Hindu Business Line newspapers. more news about the “deal” but specifically states that they don’t know if the Board approved it.
 
behramjee
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:22 pm

Details of the 9W-EY new investment MOU can be read here https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 63652.html
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:38 pm

behramjee wrote:
Details of the 9W-EY new investment MOU can be read here https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 63652.html


I think the MOU is a good plan. I wonder who the new investor is - I hope it is DL or AF/KL. Anyway, I am willing to bet EY approved this. As i said above, EY would love to retain full control and get a bail out but that won’t happen. EY will cave to this MOU.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Behranjee,
.your link 'envisions' a new investor. What we are looking for is conformation the EY BoD voted yes. An MOU is always contingent on BoD approval and EY has been coy.

There was no PR from EY. Mint often has scoops, but also has jumped the gun on facts before contract terms we're agreed upon

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edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Behranjee,
.your link 'envisions' a new investor. What we are looking for is conformation the EY BoD voted yes. An MOU is always contingent on BoD approval and EY has been coy.

There was no PR from EY. Mint often has scoops, but also has jumped the gun on facts before contract terms we're agreed upon

Lightsaber

The live mint arrive states, right at the beginning, that Goyal and Etihad are “nearing an agreement “. Oh boy, and today is when Etihad is sopposed to caccept or reject the agreement. I guess the haggling is continuing and the soap opera doesn’t seem to end
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:05 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Details of the 9W-EY new investment MOU can be read here https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 63652.html


I think the MOU is a good plan. I wonder who the new investor is - I hope it is DL or AF/KL. Anyway, I am willing to bet EY approved this. As i said above, EY would love to retain full control and get a bail out but that won’t happen. EY will cave to this MOU.

I am betting it is not Delta or Air France. It is likely the NIIF, which was mentioned before as the so called investor who would invest alongside the banks. The NIIF has revived Seed funding from Abu Dhabi and therefore Abu Dhabi can call the shots as it is after all their money
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:25 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Details of the 9W-EY new investment MOU can be read here https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 63652.html


I think the MOU is a good plan. I wonder who the new investor is - I hope it is DL or AF/KL. Anyway, I am willing to bet EY approved this. As i said above, EY would love to retain full control and get a bail out but that won’t happen. EY will cave to this MOU.

I am betting it is not Delta or Air France. It is likely the NIIF, which was mentioned before as the so called investor who would invest alongside the banks. The NIIF has revived Seed funding from Abu Dhabi and therefore Abu Dhabi can call the shots as it is after all their money


Yup I think you are right. I remember that article. I thought the NIF was an Indian govt investment fund. Didn’t realize it is AUH govt.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:01 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

I think the MOU is a good plan. I wonder who the new investor is - I hope it is DL or AF/KL. Anyway, I am willing to bet EY approved this. As i said above, EY would love to retain full control and get a bail out but that won’t happen. EY will cave to this MOU.

I am betting it is not Delta or Air France. It is likely the NIIF, which was mentioned before as the so called investor who would invest alongside the banks. The NIIF has revived Seed funding from Abu Dhabi and therefore Abu Dhabi can call the shots as it is after all their money

I

Yup I think you are right. I remember that article. I thought the NIF was an Indian govt investment fund. Didn’t realize it is AUH govt.

It is an Indian government fund but other investors can also put money in the fund
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:04 am

It is indeed the NIIF. It is an Indian govt fund but a large portion of the funding so far has come from the Abu Dhabi government. Personally I do not agree with using this fund to bailout a bankrupt airline, but I am sure there has been push from AUH to structure the deal this way so that EY would stay under 25% at the same time giving it enough clout to quasi-control the airline
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:46 am

unrave wrote:
It is indeed the NIIF. It is an Indian govt fund but a large portion of the funding so far has come from the Abu Dhabi government. Personally I do not agree with using this fund to bailout a bankrupt airline, but I am sure there has been push from AUH to structure the deal this way so that EY would stay under 25% at the same time giving it enough clout to quasi-control the airline


I look at it this way (and I am acknowledging I dont know enough about this fund other than what people here have said). I think the GOI is determined not to give EY control of JET since the GOI is really bailing Jet out. On the other hand, EY, which probably really wants control of Jet, is saying they deserve a bigger stake in Jet because all of the previous investment they did in Jet. Also EY probably feels they should see more future upside in Jet if it is turned around. So in comes this infrastructure investment fund. The fund invests in a ton of different things, so AUH govt doesn’t benefit per se in Jet upside. And AUH only has a stake in the fund. But the fund investing probably soothed the pain to the AUH govt. It was a win win compromise that allows both the Indian and AUH govt to save face and not feel cheated. If my take is correct, I think it is a good middle ground. I also think it was pretty clear that Jet needed much more investment which would have probably come from another airline. I think EY didn’t want this at all. Like I’ve been saying, this is not about ROI and investment strategy. This is a bigger game. On another note, I feel like both Goyal and AUH/EY thought Jet’s woes was just a way to get what they wanted from the GOI. Looks like in the end, the GOI played hard ball while playing diplomacy and ensuring India’s economy wasn’t hurt by Jet going up in sudden flames.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:04 am

The way I see it NIIF is a shell company for Abu Dhabi $1B sovereign fund. If this goes thru 44.9% of Jet Airways will be owned by Abu Dhabi. My guess, NIIF transaction skirts all rules and regulations involving a foreign investor, which could take up to 18 months.

Let us hope LiveMint sources are correct this time. Not looking for another denial by 9W with BSE next business day.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:14 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
NIIF transaction skirts all rules and regulations involving a foreign investor, which could take up to 18 months.


What INDIAN rules and regulations exactly does this skirt?
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
juliuswong
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:19 am

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Any update on EY Board meeting outcome as it’s 9pm in UAE now.

Looks like Etihad caved

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 14644.html


So Etihad has 24.9%, banks 29.5%, Goyal 14% and a mysterious investor (NIIF???) will hold 24.9%

All’s well that ends well — Modi is happy, Etihad is somewhat happy, Jet is thrilled, Jet Employees are rejoicing, banks are happy that their debt is not classsifed as bad debt, and vendors are happy they will be paid. The only one screwed is the Indian taxpayer. But, since when is that an issue since they have been screwed with Air India for decades.

Can we place a bet how long this bailout will last?
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:37 am

So is the NIIF a govt of india investment fund that AUH govt invested in or is it a AUH fund that the go t of AUH controls?
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:39 am

New cash infusion/ burn rate per month = how long bailout will last. But if it gets past the election, all is good
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:43 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
So is the NIIF a govt of india investment fund that AUH govt invested in or is it a AUH fund that the go t of AUH controls?

GoI fund where Abu Dhabi govt invested
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:43 am

NIIF, India’s first sovereign wealth fund, has been repurposed overnight. 9W is not "roads, ports, airports, or power".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... cture_Fund
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:03 pm

We now have 32 aircraft grounded.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL3N20Z37S

So the question is, why no news on the EY BoD? What did I miss? Is there a bailout?

Jet will not be what they were. I'd love to know what, if any, sticking points there are.

Lightsaber
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sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:11 pm

There is no final word yet, there seems to be a dispute over Naresh Goyal and his family's role.

Last reported deal involved Rs. 1950 crores each by Etihad and NIIF for a total of 3900 Crores. With Etihad releasing Rs 750 Crores right away.
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:15 pm

What is also not clear is how much does Jet actually owe people. Staff, airports, lessors, fuel companies, ground handling, catering, interiors of new aircraft(multiple MAX) which seems to be on the verge of finding new homes, and even navigation fees. That number might be quite substantial.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:33 pm

sibibom wrote:
What is also not clear is how much does Jet actually owe people. Staff, airports, lessors, fuel companies, ground handling, catering, interiors of new aircraft(multiple MAX) which seems to be on the verge of finding new homes, and even navigation fees. That number might be quite substantial.

It wouldn't surprise me if EY discovered the sum was substantially higher than expectations.

Or it could be a case of the new investor negotiating.

This should never have gone on so long. Jet had dire cash issues in October. It probably is too late. But I am far from certain.

Lightsaber
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Exeiowa
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:35 pm

Even without the debt problem they have a cash flow problem. Intrested to see what their turn around plan is, just putting more money isnt going to fix it.
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
sibibom wrote:
What is also not clear is how much does Jet actually owe people. Staff, airports, lessors, fuel companies, ground handling, catering, interiors of new aircraft(multiple MAX) which seems to be on the verge of finding new homes, and even navigation fees. That number might be quite substantial.

It wouldn't surprise me if EY discovered the sum was substantially higher than expectations.

Or it could be a case of the new investor negotiating.

This should never have gone on so long. Jet had dire cash issues in October. It probably is too late. But I am far from certain.

Lightsaber


There is a reason why Tata's forensic accountant did their due diligence and overruled their rather powerful Chairman Emeritus for even considering buying Jet, and he really wanted Jet
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:00 pm

sibibom wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
sibibom wrote:
What is also not clear is how much does Jet actually owe people. Staff, airports, lessors, fuel companies, ground handling, catering, interiors of new aircraft(multiple MAX) which seems to be on the verge of finding new homes, and even navigation fees. That number might be quite substantial.

It wouldn't surprise me if EY discovered the sum was substantially higher than expectations.

Or it could be a case of the new investor negotiating.

This should never have gone on so long. Jet had dire cash issues in October. It probably is too late. But I am far from certain.

Lightsaber


There is a reason why Tata's forensic accountant did their due diligence and overruled their rather powerful Chairman Emeritus for even considering buying Jet, and he really wanted Jet


Anything can be negotiated in a sale. Many times all the bad parts are left behind and the good taken. That is called restructuring. Even the worst businesses can still have parts sold. I think what did Tats in was that Goyal and EY were not playing ball. They both felt they can retain control of the airline. Tata probably wanted both of them out. Fact of the matter is that EY has had options to exit, and they don't seem to want to take it. That should speak volumes to people. I actually think it is the govt of AUH's relationship with India that actually blocked the banks form taking over. That is also why it has taken so long. To be honest, I think the govt banks should have taken over Jet and then restructured the loans and sold to Tatas or someone else. EY/JET just haven't been able to make it work and a bailout of them isn't probably the best solution.
 
AngMoh
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:21 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Anything can be negotiated in a sale. Many times all the bad parts are left behind and the good taken. That is called restructuring. Even the worst businesses can still have parts sold. I think what did Tats in was that Goyal and EY were not playing ball. They both felt they can retain control of the airline. Tata probably wanted both of them out. Fact of the matter is that EY has had options to exit, and they don't seem to want to take it. That should speak volumes to people. I actually think it is the govt of AUH's relationship with India that actually blocked the banks form taking over. That is also why it has taken so long. To be honest, I think the govt banks should have taken over Jet and then restructured the loans and sold to Tatas or someone else. EY/JET just haven't been able to make it work and a bailout of them isn't probably the best solution.


Sorry, but if you buy a company before it is bankrupt you need to take the lot, including all debts and liabilities. Restructuring can be done after bankrupcy has been declared not before because then it becomes a matter of recovering as much as possible to repay the creditors.

Companies like GE are now selling divisions, but the purpose of that is bringing in the cash to rescue the core of the business. Selling off the good bits of a company with the intention of letting the bad bits die is illegal if it is done before bankrupcy is declared.
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CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:12 am

AngMoh wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

Anything can be negotiated in a sale. Many times all the bad parts are left behind and the good taken. That is called restructuring. Even the worst businesses can still have parts sold. I think what did Tats in was that Goyal and EY were not playing ball. They both felt they can retain control of the airline. Tata probably wanted both of them out. Fact of the matter is that EY has had options to exit, and they don't seem to want to take it. That should speak volumes to people. I actually think it is the govt of AUH's relationship with India that actually blocked the banks form taking over. That is also why it has taken so long. To be honest, I think the govt banks should have taken over Jet and then restructured the loans and sold to Tatas or someone else. EY/JET just haven't been able to make it work and a bailout of them isn't probably the best solution.


Sorry, but if you buy a company before it is bankrupt you need to take the lot, including all debts and liabilities. Restructuring can be done after bankrupcy has been declared not before because then it becomes a matter of recovering as much as possible to repay the creditors.

Companies like GE are now selling divisions, but the purpose of that is bringing in the cash to rescue the core of the business. Selling off the good bits of a company with the intention of letting the bad bits die is illegal if it is done before bankrupcy is declared.


As part of any purchase, I am sure the Tatas would have restructured debt or aircraft leases (assuming they bought the company and not just assets). Since I doubt very many know the ins and outs of Indian law, the timing is just semantics to me. I was more responding to poeple saying that there wasn’t anything to save with Jet. That’s it. People fail to realize that a lot can happen with change in ownership especially if the biggest creditors (in this case indian govt banks) agree to it. I am willing to bet that Jet emerges from this crisis with new investment $$$ and restructured debt (at a min we know debt is being converted to equity which will help their cash flow).

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