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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:16 am
by sibibom
One also needs to remember in the history of Indian aviation there has mostly been cases of an airline in trouble being acquired by another airline which has ended in disasters. From Sahara to Deccan. Spicejet is an anomaly, but I have maintained, I can't make sense how they managed to turn around from day 1. Plus it coincided with a change of guard at the Govt of India and political affiliations of the respective owners aligned with that. There is a lot do to with that, information of that which we may never be privy to.

Etihad has cut its loses in Air Berlin, Alitalia, Darwin aka Etihad regional and preferred to exit rather than invest more. Unless they see a way to make their investments work, they will cut their loss and walk away. It's literally down to them and what they decide to do. People like Tata, Indigo, Qatar or even Delta are not going to enter right now, cos they will get a better deal if Jet officially goes bankrupt and assets are sold off.

But the fact that the government is willing to invest, queers the pitch for them. Between the nationalized banks and potential NIIF intervention, Government is indirectly the majority owner of Jet as it seems.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:32 am
by lutfi
All of Pacific is only 5.5% of Dl revenue - India isn't even mentioned in their annual report. DL will (like everyone else) be watching interline balance with 9W - but that is it.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:39 am
by WPvsMW
lightsaber wrote:
. Why is DL being mentioned? Jet needs billions of USD invested. In no way does Jet represent that level of profit for DL.


I posted about Vinay and his becoming king of the hill if 9W survives.... what director on the Board is going to tell such an experienced CEO how to save the airline ... and implications for DL. DL is not going to invest, but no doubt wants their former SVP Asia-Pacific to restore 9W and reinvigorate the codeshares with ST members. 9W was on track to go from codeshares to member of SkyTeam in 2017
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 492125.cms
before 9W stalled. DL, AF, and KL don't want 9W to lawndart. My post was a rumination about what they are doing behind the scenes, and from DL's perspective, the less input EY and NG have in a healthy 9W, the better.

Now... speculation: DL has drastically drawn down its service in Asia, essentially allowing KE and MU to handle China. But I think DL is interested in India as the "next China" (expanded middle class, expanded international leisure travel... esp. to the US), and 9W was to be ST's trump card, similar to VS and the UK.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:04 am
by unrave
India is likely a small and inconsequent market for one of the largest airlines in the world like DL. They wouldn't care much if DL survives or goes down

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:15 am
by avier
Any idea why 9W's grounded planes fly to either HYD or COK mostly for storage? Is it the available parking bays? Also I wonder if 9W decides these locations or their lessors do. Any inputs would be valuable.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:17 am
by WPvsMW
unrave wrote:
India is likely a small and inconsequent market for one of the largest airlines in the world like DL. They wouldn't care much if DL survives or goes down


unrave, your signature, "India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market." conflicts with your post. Why wouldn't the world's largest airline (by some metrics) be interested in the "World's fastest growing major economy. [and] World's fastest growing aviation market."

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:48 am
by unrave
WPvsMW wrote:
unrave, your signature, "India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market." conflicts with your post. Why wouldn't the world's largest airline (by some metrics) be interested in the "World's fastest growing major economy. [and] World's fastest growing aviation market."

Because currently DL does not fly to India and its revenues from India via the Skyteam JV and 9W is a minuscule portion of its revenue, so DL will no care much for the feed from 9W.
(I have made a typo in my comment, the second DL should be 9W)

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:43 am
by binayak
Had India been so irrelevant for DL, they wouldn't have launched campaign against ME3 , wouldn't have codeshared with 9W at the first place because they already have AF KL .
Foreign investment is not a solution. That's why DL quietly walked away. Working capital issue needs to be solved and a one time investment of 300-400 mil $ cannot solve it perpetually.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:47 am
by unrave
binayak wrote:
Working capital issue needs to be solved and a one time investment of 300-400 mil $ cannot solve it perpetually.

Please do not parrot this myth perpetuated by those with poor understanding of airline finances . 9W has a lot of issues but WC is not one of them.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:26 am
by unrave
Reuters reports that lessors have begun terminating lease deals with Jet Airways
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-jet-a ... KKCN1QW1B8

Repos are coming soon boiis

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:43 am
by dtw2hyd
Looks like Press Trust of India/Reuters is writing puff pieces nowadays, to claim legitimacy, or is it one person in PTI/Reuters. The same name keeps showing up.

Can someone post a link to this notice?

According to a government notice issued in November, after any application is filed, all airport operators and other private entities, within five days, need to inform the lessor and DGCA of pending dues related to that aircraft for three months preceding the date of deregistration.

Only after these are cleared, the lessor is allowed to fly the aircraft out of India.


That is totally against CTA.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:48 am
by unrave
Time honoured tactic of discrediting any news item as puff piece continues.
http://dgca.nic.in/public_notice/PN_Rule30(Mar2019).pdf

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:16 am
by dtw2hyd
So, Modi is playing his old tricks quoting a 1937 act, which was ruled invalid by Indian courts in 2012/13 as CTA has supremacy.

How did India deregister KingFisher aircraft with $100 Million dues? With court order.

DGCA released this notice on March 11, 2019, hilarious.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:30 am
by unrave
Didn't realise Modi was appointed the Director General of the DGCA. Must have missed the news here in India.
For the benefit of readers: India is not a full signatory to the Cape Town Treaty which governs the repossession of aircraft by lessors from a third country. If you look at the wikipedia article for Cape Town Treaty, it shows India as a signatory. However, there are certain local laws have to be modified to before it can be completely implemented.
If you have the time and interest go through Nitin Sarin's twitter to learn more: https://twitter.com/Deaphen

The bottomline is: Repossessing aircraft registered in India still remains a headache for lessors.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:59 pm
by unrave
Now Jet pilots seek government help to recover unpaid dues with interest
https://in.reuters.com/article/jet-airw ... NKCN1QW1PA

Wasn't the argument, as recently as three weeks ago, that everything was fine with Jet because otherwise pilots will not be quiet. Well here we go.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:01 pm
by lightsaber
unrave wrote:
Reuters reports that lessors have begun terminating lease deals with Jet Airways
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-jet-a ... KKCN1QW1B8

Repos are coming soon boiis

GECAS and AerCap.

Oh my... The big guns have spoken.
Does Jet lease from Avalon? Wells Fargo?

I'd love to know who holds the other end of the leases.

If repossession is delayed, that will just be baked into future leases in India as a risk (cost).

It amazes me that the bailout hasn't been confirmed or denied. EY has an easy out. "Goyal and the banks weren't willing to meet our terms and instead chose to pursue other investors."


Lightsaber

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 pm
by lightsaber
Still seems to be held on terms Goyal is insisting upon:

https://m.businesstoday.in/lite/story/j ... 28174.html

My question is, who is the mystery investor?

Hope for next week... As noted above, GECAS, and AerCap are repossessing. If true, a half billion USD and next week, might indeed be the limit. If Goyal wants so much, he needs to put in more cash. It really is that simple.

Lightsaber

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:15 pm
by vadodara
Looks like the MAX’s will be grounded for a while. That means any 9W aircraft that can be ‘flown-away’ is likely to disappear.

Hope courts don’t interfere and let the natural cleansing process go forward.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:17 pm
by vadodara
lightsaber wrote:
Still seems to be held on terms Goyal is insisting upon:

https://m.businesstoday.in/lite/story/j ... 28174.html

My question is, who is the mystery investor?

Hope for next week... As noted above, GECAS, and AerCap are repossessing. If true, a half billion USD and next week, might indeed be the limit. If Goyal wants so much, he needs to put in more cash. It really is that simple.

Lightsaber



It appears the latest conflict is about NG’s ability to hold management control.

Neither EY or Indian banks are in a mood to humor him. NG on the other hand might be wanting to ride out a few months in hope of a ‘friendlier’ govt.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:37 pm
by unrave
lightsaber wrote:

If repossession is delayed, that will just be baked into future leases in India as a risk (cost).

It amazes me that the bailout hasn't been confirmed or denied. EY has an easy out. "Goyal and the banks weren't willing to meet our terms and instead chose to pursue other investors."


Lightsaber

Post Kingfisher shut down other surviving Indian airlines had to suffer higher lease costs because of problem with repo of grounded aircraft

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:47 pm
by Exeiowa
Wondering if leases that are not current get grounded quicker so that additional charges do not get racked up on them that have to be cleared before they can be repossessed.

That must suck for the leasors to 1) not be payed and 2) pay off incurred debt by the entity that stiffed you using you item they are not paying for.

Cannot imagine that people will be leasing to Jet after this mess or if they do at competitive rates.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:09 am
by edealinfo
vadodara wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Still seems to be held on terms Goyal is insisting upon:

https://m.businesstoday.in/lite/story/j ... 28174.html

My question is, who is the mystery investor?

Hope for next week... As noted above, GECAS, and AerCap are repossessing. If true, a half billion USD and next week, might indeed be the limit. If Goyal wants so much, he needs to put in more cash. It really is that simple.

Lightsaber



It appears the latest conflict is about NG’s ability to hold management control.

Neither EY or Indian banks are in a mood to humor him. NG on the other hand might be wanting to ride out a few months in hope of a ‘friendlier’ govt.

The thing about Naresh wanting Managment control is a planted story to buy time and give the impression that hard bargaining is still going on. Perhaps it is but certainly not on managment control

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:02 am
by edealinfo
The logic below is why Jet will continue to survive;
A) the Government doesn’t want to be accused of helping a crony ensure SpriceJet survive but Jet fail.
B) the government doesn’t want to be blamed for 16,000 lost jobs when the opposition is accusing the government of inadequate number of jobs in the economy.
C) A general election is round the corner
D) Etihad really needs access to the Indian market and Jet is its vehicle (note that UAE India bilateral is completely exhausted
E) Banks doesn’t want to face the media for the loss of sunk costs...imagine an 8500 crore write off
F) Naresh’s only talent is his ability to access contacts and presumably he is working his jadugar magic (he won’t retain control) but he won’t let Jet fail either. the man is too emotionally connected.
G) Jet holds attractive slots at Mumbai and New Delhi which may attract buyers at the right price even as it fails.
h) Boeing need to retain its MAX orders
I) the UAE and India have great relations so the government can’t just expropriate Jet without a polical backlash

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:23 am
by lightsaber
edealinfo wrote:
The logic below is why Jet will continue to survive;
A) the Government doesn’t want to be accused of helping a crony ensure SpriceJet survive but Jet fail.
B) the government doesn’t want to be blamed for 16,000 lost jobs when the opposition is accusing the government of inadequate number of jobs in the economy.
C) A general election is round the corner
D) Etihad really needs access to the Indian market and Jet is its vehicle (note that UAE India bilateral is completely exhausted
E) Banks doesn’t want to face the media for the loss of sunk costs...imagine an 8500 crore write off
F) Naresh’s only talent is his ability to access contacts and presumably he is working his jadugar magic (he won’t retain control) but he won’t let Jet fail either. the man is too emotionally connected.
G) Jet holds attractive slots at Mumbai and New Delhi which may attract buyers at the right price even as it fails.
h) Boeing need to retain its MAX orders
I) the UAE and India have great relations so the government can’t just expropriate Jet without a polical backlash

To stop this train wreck requires $245 million within 13 days plus working capital.

Who is coming up with the money and know how if EY's terms aren't met. Abu Dhabi has investments, but they are having cash flow problems. Jet has to make the investment worthwhile.

I wonder if those involved in the negotiations even know. Jet is worth something, but only so much. Each party is doing ROI calculations. Minimum targets must be met.

I would say there is now slightly more chance Jet fails. Too much in losses have occurred. This is snowballing into a dire situation.

Jet can still be saved, but is it worth it?

Lightsaber

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:42 am
by WPvsMW
To wit... is this KF II or 6E II? Bollywood blockbusters.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:52 am
by smartplane
Exeiowa wrote:
Wondering if leases that are not current get grounded quicker so that additional charges do not get racked up on them that have to be cleared before they can be repossessed.

That must suck for the leasors to 1) not be payed and 2) pay off incurred debt by the entity that stiffed you using you item they are not paying for.

Cannot imagine that people will be leasing to Jet after this mess or if they do at competitive rates.

On a leased aircraft, if the leasee has unpaid landing charges, etc, pertaining specifically to THE aircraft, creditors can demand payment before the aircraft is permitted to exit the country. A leasor will usually pay up, and then make a claim as an unsecured creditor under the EOL terms and conditions.

Even if the aircraft can't be re-possessed immediately, grounding it at the right airport (low storage fees), will save the leasor money.

While there are aspects of CT India hasn't ratified, CT conditions are already included in lease agreements. However, enforcement requires legal remedies, including obtaining de-registration.

Leasing in India is like the Wild West / last frontier. Airlines in India already pay a risk premium. Lease defaults, delays beyond agreed moratorium periods, and legal / political stalling, will make leasing even more expensive, and ultimately favour the one airline subsidised by the State and taxpayers.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:30 am
by Phosphorus
smartplane wrote:
Exeiowa wrote:
Wondering if leases that are not current get grounded quicker so that additional charges do not get racked up on them that have to be cleared before they can be repossessed.

That must suck for the leasors to 1) not be payed and 2) pay off incurred debt by the entity that stiffed you using you item they are not paying for.

Cannot imagine that people will be leasing to Jet after this mess or if they do at competitive rates.

On a leased aircraft, if the leasee has unpaid landing charges, etc, pertaining specifically to THE aircraft, creditors can demand payment before the aircraft is permitted to exit the country. A leasor will usually pay up, and then make a claim as an unsecured creditor under the EOL terms and conditions.

Even if the aircraft can't be re-possessed immediately, grounding it at the right airport (low storage fees), will save the leasor money.

While there are aspects of CT India hasn't ratified, CT conditions are already included in lease agreements. However, enforcement requires legal remedies, including obtaining de-registration.

Leasing in India is like the Wild West / last frontier. Airlines in India already pay a risk premium. Lease defaults, delays beyond agreed moratorium periods, and legal / political stalling, will make leasing even more expensive, and ultimately favour the one airline subsidised by the State and taxpayers.


Indeed, it's interesting that acting in their best interest, in the setup like this, lessor's interest is best served by pulling the plug early, rather than allowing debtor to amass additional debt, that unsecured creditors will try to staple to the lessor's property (airplane).

I wonder, how would a situation work out, if leased airplane is flying out of India into a full CTA signatory country, are repoe'd there. How does this work?

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:29 pm
by edealinfo
lightsaber wrote:
To stop this train wreck requires $245 million within 13 days plus working capital.

Who is coming up with the money and know how if EY's terms aren't met. Abu Dhabi has investments, but they are having cash flow problems. Jet has to make the investment worthwhile.

I wonder if those involved in the negotiations even know. Jet is worth something, but only so much. Each party is doing ROI calculations. Minimum targets must be met.

I would say there is now slightly more chance Jet fails. Too much in losses have occurred. This is snowballing into a dire situation.

Jet can still be saved, but is it worth it?

Lightsaber

I think your analysis is a bit flawed because you assume this is fully an economic decision. in my opinion, at this stage, it is a political decision concerning the governments of India and UAaE, and the banks controlled by Government

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:33 pm
by edealinfo
Is the correct terminology “lessor” or “leasor”? I have seen both in this thread but I am unclear as to whether both there are valid as in one is American English and the otlther is UK English or vice verse. Could someone clarify

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:44 pm
by dtw2hyd
smartplane wrote:
While there are aspects of CT India hasn't ratified, CT conditions are already included in lease agreements. However, enforcement requires legal remedies, including obtaining de-registration.


All those issues have been litigated and CTA prevailed. Indian courts ruled international treaties have supremacy over local laws. A refresher slap on government's wrist by court system is in order.

I am really surprised how the current Indian government operates, at one point they were contemplating allowing foreign regs to operate in India so lessors can repo without de-reg. This ruling is a complete u-turn.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:02 pm
by lightsaber
edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
To stop this train wreck requires $245 million within 13 days plus working capital.

Who is coming up with the money and know how if EY's terms aren't met. Abu Dhabi has investments, but they are having cash flow problems. Jet has to make the investment worthwhile.

I wonder if those involved in the negotiations even know. Jet is worth something, but only so much. Each party is doing ROI calculations. Minimum targets must be met.

I would say there is now slightly more chance Jet fails. Too much in losses have occurred. This is snowballing into a dire situation.

Jet can still be saved, but is it worth it?

Lightsaber

I think your analysis is a bit flawed because you assume this is fully an economic decision. in my opinion, at this stage, it is a political decision concerning the governments of India and UAaE, and the banks controlled by Government

It is both. The issue is this isn't the UAE, it is Abu Dhabi. Dubai and other Emirates have no horse in this race. Remember, the UAE is a Federation of funding cousins; they only act as one when Abu Dhabi, Dubai, and at least two others like the idea.

Abu Dhabi has assets, but not cash right now. Hence why I think the economics will dominate. No other Emirate would contribute funds. This is EY's problem/opportunity.

The banks in India need a resolution, for Jet fully going under hurts their credit rating. There is a reason those pesky rating agencies are independent. To keep politics from destroying the banking sector.

So I think the politicians are about to get a rude awakening. The leasing companies are only in this for a profit. When they repossesses, they had better be allowed to or they'll get their money plus a risk premium somehow.

This only has a tiny amount more time to play out. The leasing companies learned a lesson with Kingfisher. I think the GoI is about to be schooled on the CTA whether they play along or not. It would be better for India if the GoI cooperated.

This is an economic decision that could have repercussions for Jet, the banks, and the GoI. Have you read Friedman's book "The World is Flat.". It has many examples in it of governments being taught the lessons of today's investment environment. I believe we are in the middle of a case study. Let us not make it a memorable case study.

Jet still has time. But obviously Abu Dhabi hasn't caved to political pressure. So now what is going to close this deal, if anything.

Lightsaber

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:24 pm
by WPvsMW
edealinfo wrote:
Is the correct terminology “lessor” or “leasor”? I have seen both in this thread but I am unclear as to whether both there are valid as in one is American English and the otlther is UK English or vice verse. Could someone clarify


In the US, it's "lessor" and only "lessor". If a lawyer used "leasor", they would fear nullification for ambiguity. :lol:
Can't speak for the mothership and the former Commonwealth.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:32 pm
by WPvsMW
WRT: banks vs. govt vs. 9W, if EY didn't have a horse in the race, 9W would have dissolved months ago. If EY doesn't make this work, either (i) EY regresses to a regional carrier, like GF (Gulf Air), or (ii) .... errr.... EK "represents Abu Dhabi, Ajman, Dubai, Fujairah, Ras Al Khaimah, Sharjah and Umm Al Quwain in commercial aviation" (all of UAE).

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:48 pm
by myki
WPvsMW wrote:
WRT: banks vs. govt vs. 9W, if EY didn't have a horse in the race, 9W would have dissolved months ago. If EY doesn't make this work, either (i) EY regresses to a regional carrier, like GF (Gulf Air), or (ii) .... errr.... EK "represents Abu Dhabi, Ajman, Dubai, Fujairah, Ras Al Khaimah, Sharjah and Umm Al Quwain in commercial aviation" (all of UAE).


What if EY doesn't want to be a horse in the race? Who knows? Cut its losses perhaps?

After cutting back flights over the last 12 months (e.g. reducing BLR, dropping JAI, etc.) I guess this means there's still availability in the number of flights they can use? Wait for 9W to fail, throw one of the A320s laying around on to PNQ. Maybe add GOI as well rather than waiting for 9Ws seasonal service.

Food for thought ...

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:59 pm
by smartplane
dtw2hyd wrote:
smartplane wrote:
While there are aspects of CT India hasn't ratified, CT conditions are already included in lease agreements. However, enforcement requires legal remedies, including obtaining de-registration.


All those issues have been litigated and CTA prevailed. Indian courts ruled international treaties have supremacy over local laws. A refresher slap on government's wrist by court system is in order.

I am really surprised how the current Indian government operates, at one point they were contemplating allowing foreign regs to operate in India so lessors can repo without de-reg. This ruling is a complete u-turn.

But the very fact legal action is required to enforce each and every CTA claim, highlights India has not ratified. And separate legal action is required to enforce de-registration, which can, and has been delayed for months after the decision.

The current position favours Air India, as in the minds of financiers and leasors, even where expressly stated to the contrary, it's considered sovereign debt.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:29 pm
by smartplane
WPvsMW wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Is the correct terminology “lessor” or “leasor”? I have seen both in this thread but I am unclear as to whether both there are valid as in one is American English and the otlther is UK English or vice verse. Could someone clarify


In the US, it's "lessor" and only "lessor". If a lawyer used "leasor", they would fear nullification for ambiguity. :lol:
Can't speak for the mothership and the former Commonwealth.

Shows my age. Even the mother ship and Commonwealth has ceded to pervasive US spellings.

In international lease agreements the largely obsolete French spelling 'lessour' is also sometimes defined.

If the document is a lease agreement, it will define and describe the parties, and includes a clause (or similar), 'hereinafter referred to as....'

For US / US leases you are definitely correct.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:34 pm
by Exeiowa
As an Englishman who lives in America, I can comfirm the correct spelling is...

Actually I have no idea, if I am using the incorrect spelling it is a combination of auto correct, which has gone a little weird after the last android update, and my complete inability to spell in general.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:38 am
by unrave
Jet Airways has suspended all operations at CJB until 31MAR

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:54 am
by unrave
Real life tragedy arising out of Jet Airways' salary delays: ET's Saurabh Sinha has reported that a Jet Airways engineer admitted his son to hospital in a critical condition and requested the airline to release his unpaid salary, which was denied. The child subsequently died. This incident has also been corroborated by Cpt Saveash Gupta, Sr Cmdr at Jet Airways

https://twitter.com/27saurabhsinha/stat ... 6991316994

In this very thread some posters were claiming that salary delays will not affect the employees. What a ridiculous argument it was.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:07 pm
by juliuswong
I can't imagine all these employees can go on weeks and months with their lives without salary. They have my utmost sympathy. WTF! Every single one of them has commitment to attend to. Family, loan, bills etc. Glad the pilots are sane enough not to crash an airliner!

To those who said salary delay or non payment doesn't affect their livelihood, I hope you won't be in same situation one day. Bloody hell.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:53 pm
by dtw2hyd
smartplane wrote:
But the very fact legal action is required to enforce each and every CTA claim, highlights India has not ratified. And separate legal action is required to enforce de-registration, which can, and has been delayed for months after the decision.


Even with KF in 2012/3, only first 5 or so frames were delayed by a few weeks. Rest of the ~80 were repoed quickly. 2 were delayed because they were parted out.

With legal precedence, it shouldn't take more couple of weeks.

The biggest question is why the Indian government throwing monkey wrench now. It is definitely not to help 9W.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:20 pm
by Spiderguy252
Now 9W have pulled the plug on AUH altogether - 18 March to be specific.

Make of that what you will.

Jet Airways pulls the plug on AUH in high stakes battle with Etihad; could deny Etihad 10% of its traffic

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:48 pm
by edealinfo
Jet has pulled the plug on AUH per the Times of India newspaper ( so it is not a rumor but real news).this is a “massive” move by Goyal (the current owner) to call Etihad’s bluff in the high stakes poker game. no matter what you think of Naresh Goyal, kudos to Him for having the kahunas to take this fight one step further. In his tstrategic move he is pitting himself, employees, and India against Abu Dhabi Government and Etihad. He has guaranteed a movie for his life story with this move no matter how it turns out.

The wily Naresh is denying feed to Etihad. isn’t that worth 10 percent of Etihad’s traffic???? Brilliant move to call a bluff (which I think is the case with Etihad which is seeking punitive terms on Goyal, who built his Jet baby from scratch) in negotiations.

Etihad had underestimated the emotional connection of an Indian founder to his business

for those not in the know, Jet is seeking a lifeline from bankruptcy and Etihad wants very stiff terms including a ban on the founder owning more than 22 percent of the company in perpetuity.

see the separate “Jet Airways report cash running out thread for more details”

Re: Rumor: Jet Airways to pull the plug on AUH in high stakes battle with Etihad; could deny Etihad 10% of its traffic

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:06 pm
by Armodeen
In a battle between 2 carriers on life support, I’d bet on the one funded by a rich nation state personally.

Re: Rumor: Jet Airways to pull the plug on AUH in high stakes battle with Etihad; could deny Etihad 10% of its traffic

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:09 pm
by chonetsao
It could be a bluff, or pending suicide depends on board room fight...either way it is ugly.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:10 pm
by avier
If things aren't going to work out between 9W-EY, will India- Abu-Dabhi relations sour? Since aviation isn't existing in a vacuum obviously.

Re: Jet Airways pulls the plug on AUH in high stakes battle with Etihad; could deny Etihad 10% of its traffic

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:12 pm
by edealinfo
The plug is pulled effective March 18. great chess move.

Re: Rumor: Jet Airways to pull the plug on AUH in high stakes battle with Etihad; could deny Etihad 10% of its traffic

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:22 pm
by blrsea
chonetsao wrote:
It could be a bluff, or pending suicide depends on board room fight...either way it is ugly.


True, the ultimate sufferers are the poor unpaid employees, lenders and creditors. It should have been done six months back if 9W was serious. Goyal wants to have his cake and eat it too. SBI was on record saying they expected a resolution by next week. Looks like Goyal's move just made it more uncertain. EY is also not doing well given the latest results. Not sure if they are in a position to invest more even, though I guess Goyal is pissed off due to the perpetual 22% stake limit. His ego will take down the airline if he isn't careful. Will be popcorn time for 3rd party observers, but I guess employees, lenders and creditors are tearing out their hair in frustration!

And lessors have already warned they will take back the planes if no resolution by end of this month. Will start a downward spiral that will spin out of control unless cooler heads prevail.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:23 pm
by edealinfo
The question is can Etihad afford to lose 10 percent of its business, probably in perpetuity, for a relatively small investment in Jet. note that India will be the most populous country in less than 5 years and not more than 2 percent of the population currently flies. so, there is tremendous opportunity for aviation growth and Etihad would be starved of it.

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:24 pm
by blrsea
avier wrote:
If things aren't going to work out between 9W-EY, will India- Abu-Dabhi relations sour? Since aviation isn't existing in a vacuum obviously.


Why? India hasn't taken out any of AUH's capacity, they still have plenty of capacity left over. It will only depend on how much of 9W's traffic contributed to EY's connecting flights. if that is something they can live with, it shouldn't cause any issues. And 9W is a private entity in India.