avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:31 pm

blrsea wrote:
avier wrote:
If things aren't going to work out between 9W-EY, will India- Abu-Dabhi relations sour? Since aviation isn't existing in a vacuum obviously.


Why? India hasn't taken out any of AUH's capacity, they still have plenty of capacity left over. It will only depend on how much of 9W's traffic contributed to EY's connecting flights. if that is something they can live with, it shouldn't cause any issues. And 9W is a private entity in India.


I meant in a different way. That if EY is not helping out at all in this situation and let's 9W fall, with twenty thousand odd jobs lost a month before election, would it make Abu Dabhi govt. look bad? It doesn't matter if it's a pvt. company failing or not, jobs lost is a loss for the country. And this is certainly not a good time.
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:18 pm

Oh well a Russian roulette! I didn't see such a dramatic finale coming...either way after 7 months, 1800 odd post, all the name calling, denials, the moment has arrived!

okay I would rather call it a "Murder-Suicide" or "Rising like a phoenix". Tomorrow we shall see.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:37 pm

NG: Master of brinkmanship. This is as much a chess move in the match with EY and is the upcoming elections' "match". NG is forcing the Modi govt to take positions on the board (bilateral with UAE, "repurposing" of NIIF, independence of DCGA).
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:53 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
NG: Master of brinkmanship. This is as much a chess move in the match with EY and is the upcoming elections' "match". NG is forcing the Modi govt to take positions on the board (bilateral with UAE, "repurposing" of NIIF, independence of DCGA).


I don't think Modi will take any position with an election in 4weeks, and bilaterals will not be revised either. And there is a lot of more to UAE-India relations than Jet-Etihad partnership. We are not some banana republic.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:57 pm

sibibom wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
NG: Master of brinkmanship. This is as much a chess move in the match with EY and is the upcoming elections' "match". NG is forcing the Modi govt to take positions on the board (bilateral with UAE, "repurposing" of NIIF, independence of DCGA).


I don't think Modi will take any position with an election in 4weeks, and bilaterals will not be revised either. And there is a lot of more to UAE-India relations than Jet-Etihad partnership. We are not some banana republic.

Concur. At this point, the business case will determine Jet's fate. There is an election to pay attention to. Jet is just noise I. The big picture.

Lightsaber
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WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:10 pm

Left out the PSBs as an 9W/EY/election issue....

NG: Master of brinkmanship. This is as much a chess move in the match with EY and is the upcoming elections' "match". NG is forcing the Modi govt to take positions on the board (bilateral with UAE, "repurposing" of NIIF, independence of DCGA, foreign investment vs. PSBs).

I agree that Modi and appointees will remain mum to the degree possible, esp. about further unemployment if 9W is dissolved.

But I think it is brinkmanship by NG.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:10 pm

edealinfo wrote:
The question is can Etihad afford to lose 10 percent of its business, probably in perpetuity, for a relatively small investment in Jet. note that India will be the most populous country in less than 5 years and not more than 2 percent of the population currently flies. so, there is tremendous opportunity for aviation growth and Etihad would be starved of it.


I think Goyal has overplayed his hand and cut his nose off to spite his face. He does not hold that strong of a bargaining position, and bluffing won’t help him as everyone can see his cards.

Just my opinion.
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:32 pm

I have no idea why people think this is some "masterstroke" by Naresh Goyal. It seems like a last ditch hail mary to save himself. He is pushing the company, the employees, the other stakeholders and all the fliers who have tickets under the bus.

What can be the possible outcomes? Etihad will never work with NG even if they save Jet, and banks will be wary of him as well. Every other investor looking at this will be wary of him as well.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:48 pm

sibibom wrote:
I have no idea why people think this is some "masterstroke" by Naresh Goyal. It seems like a last ditch hail mary to save himself. He is pushing the company, the employees, the other stakeholders and all the fliers who have tickets under the bus.

What can be the possible outcomes? Etihad will never work with NG even if they save Jet, and banks will be wary of him as well. Every other investor looking at this will be wary of him as well.

I think Goyal's greed has done huge damage to the value of Jet. Whatever happens, Jet will be less because of him. The company needs a major reorganization.

The banks hope for a funding next week. What matters is the new investment. Either their
terms are good enough, or they won't invest. We'll find out within a few weeks.

Lightsaber
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WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

My comment is not intended to cast NG's ultimatum as a masterstroke... just brinkmanship, a game of Russian roulette.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:58 pm

lightsaber wrote:
sibibom wrote:
I have no idea why people think this is some "masterstroke" by Naresh Goyal. It seems like a last ditch hail mary to save himself. He is pushing the company, the employees, the other stakeholders and all the fliers who have tickets under the bus.

What can be the possible outcomes? Etihad will never work with NG even if they save Jet, and banks will be wary of him as well. Every other investor looking at this will be wary of him as well.

I think Goyal's greed has done huge damage to the value of Jet. Whatever happens, Jet will be less because of him. The company needs a major reorganization.

The banks hope for a funding next week. What matters is the new investment. Either their
terms are good enough, or they won't invest. We'll find out within a few weeks.

Lightsaber


So, you are suggesting he should sit back and accept the "perpetuity" clause that prohibits him from investing beyond 22% after he invests $750 crore while Etihad which invests only an identical amount gets to impose those terms on him? How can that be fair?
 
Kilopond
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:15 pm

sibibom wrote:
I have no idea why people think this is some "masterstroke" by Naresh Goyal.[...]


That made me wonder, too. With just very few exceptions Etihad controls the traffic between points in India and Abu Dhabi. Jet is essentially just codesharing and I believe 9W really do need Etihad but not vice versa.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm

Using EY metal, can EY fly ALL of the codeshares it has with 9W?
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:56 pm

Wow that seems like a really stupid idea. Goyal must have a high opinion of himself if he thinks that an election in a country of more than a billion people will be significantly effected by the struggles of a moderately sized airline., when it was his leadership that seems to have put it here in the first place...
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:12 am

Exeiowa wrote:
Goyal must have a high opinion of himself ...


I think the evidence of that is incontrovertible.
 
AI
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:23 am

How many flights did 9W have between India & AUH? Were all of them on narrow bodies?
 
blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:57 am

Looks like EY is also having second-thoughts about bailing out 9W, and is sticking to Rs 150 per share. Doesn't appear to be end in sight to 9W's troubles. Hope this is not considered flame-bait, or PR piece.

Jet Airways’ rescue plan runs into rough weather

The deal to rescue Jet AirwaysNSE -1.11 % has hit an air pocket. Lenders have told Jet’s strategic partner Etihad Airways that if it is unable to accept the terms to revive the troubled airline, it should exit so that a new investor can be brought in.

Etihad, saddled with losses and unsure of the resolution plan and its probable outcome, is understood to have said that it could exit at a price of Rs 150 a share.

“This could well be pressure tactics but it has not gone down well with the government and the National Investment and Infrastructure Fund (NIIF), which was planning to invest. But the question is, where is the buyer even if Etihad offers to sell its stake?” said a person familiar with the developments.

...
Etihad is yet to chip in with the required contribution of Rs 750 crore. Lenders, led by State Bank of India, are ready to infuse a like amount as ‘priority debt’ to keep the airline flying for the next six months. The Abu Dhabi-based carrier is said to have approached the UAE Federal National Council before taking a final decision, said a second person in the know. There was no response from Etihad to ET’s emailed questionnaire till the time of going to press.

According to aviation industry sources, Goyal has sent feelers to other potential investors, including Etihad’s rival Qatar Airways, which has been trying to gain a foothold in India. Qatar Airways had unsuccessfully wooed India’s biggest airline IndiGoNSE -0.29 % for a stake and even announced plans of setting up its own domestic airline in India. However, a senior executive at Qatar Airways denied any talks had taken place and said it won’t be interested in Jet Airways. ...
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:23 am

At least a part of the grounded Jet fleet will find a new home: SpiceJet is in talks with lessors to take over some of the grounded aircraft
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 035_1.html
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:50 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Using EY metal, can EY fly ALL of the codeshares it has with 9W?

No it can't. EY and 9W are two distinct carriers.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:05 am

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
sibibom wrote:
I have no idea why people think this is some "masterstroke" by Naresh Goyal. It seems like a last ditch hail mary to save himself. He is pushing the company, the employees, the other stakeholders and all the fliers who have tickets under the bus.

What can be the possible outcomes? Etihad will never work with NG even if they save Jet, and banks will be wary of him as well. Every other investor looking at this will be wary of him as well.

I think Goyal's greed has done huge damage to the value of Jet. Whatever happens, Jet will be less because of him. The company needs a major reorganization.

The banks hope for a funding next week. What matters is the new investment. Either their
terms are good enough, or they won't invest. We'll find out within a few weeks.

Lightsaber


So, you are suggesting he should sit back and accept the "perpetuity" clause that prohibits him from investing beyond 22% after he invests $750 crore while Etihad which invests only an identical amount gets to impose those terms on him? How can that be fair?

Are you suggesting EY should risk him taking over again? Goyal can accept or reject. Same with EY. But isn't EY expected to increase their investment to 1,800? Isn't a new investor expected to invest 1,800 crore too?

Fair has nothing to do with the deal. If EY won't accept a deal:
1. Find another investor (tried and failed before).
2. Invest more of Goyal's own money.
3. Accept EY's offer

If no deal is reached, Goyal ends up with the Kingfisher 2 and possible court action.

EY should actually demand more as the delays have reduced the brand value of Jet.

Our discussion won't matter soon. Soon Jet cannot be saved.

So yes, by managing the company into default, Goyal has a weak negotiating position. If Jet fails, it will be his fault. Couldn't he come up with the entire required half billion USD? Why isn't he? He should be reducing EY's share!

As they say in business, put up or shut up.

We discuss, but nothing changes. Very soon that means Jet shuts down. The airline will not make the election. This is big business at it's best and worst. EY's BoD has one concern, the business case (projected ROI). If the needed targets are not met, oh well. They are now numb to sunk costs.

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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:11 am

Oh... Jet is cancelling all Abu Dhabi flights supposedly.

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.moneycon ... 1.html/amp

Well,.. brinkmanship has maxed out. This accelerates the game.

Goyal has doubled down. He also just gave EY an out. Hmmm....

That news came out while I was compossing the above.

Wow. This is the end game. Forget my prior estimates. We'll know within 12 days now. Jet's fate shall be decided.

Wow... Goyal will either be brilliant or an idiot. There is no middle ground after such extreame measures.

Lightsaber

Looks to be because EY hasn't released any funds:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/m.timesofind ... 454218.cms

Claims are otherwise by Goyal as to the reasons. 750 crore right away is the demand (from EY).

Why doesn't Goyal fund the airline? This will sink jet quickly or save them. They problem with blackmail, is once you capitulate, you are the mark. EY will not accept Goyal's influence after this stunt.
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WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:23 am

unrave wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Using EY metal, can EY fly ALL of the codeshares it has with 9W?

No it can't. EY and 9W are two distinct carriers.


So... they would need an immunized JV ageement to be 100% metal neutral. That's not going to happen.

moneycontrol.com needs tutelage (but it did scoop the story). 9W did not ground anything, 9W cancelled service to AUH, as reported by 9W's ground service agent. Moreover, the article is not clear about whether 9W will continue to sell its codeshare on EY metal. Plus, just plain wrong on this fact: "Abu Dhabi airport also serves as the main hub of the UAEs national carrier." ??? If the UAE has a national carrier, it's EK. Both EY and EK are "flag carriers", but EY as "the national carrier". Not true.
Last edited by WPvsMW on Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
EmoticonsAllDay
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:32 am

lightsaber wrote:
Oh... Jet is cancelling all Abu Dhabi flights supposedly.

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.moneycon ... 1.html/amp

Well,.. brinkmanship has maxed out. This accelerates the game.

Goyal has doubled down. He also just gave EY an out. Hmmm....

That news came out while I was compossing the above.

Wow. This is the end game. Forget my prior estimates. We'll know within 12 days now. Jet's fate shall be decided.

Wow... Goyal will either be brilliant or an idiot. There is no middle ground after such extreame measures.

Lightsaber

Looks to be because EY hasn't released any funds:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/m.timesofind ... 454218.cms

Claims are otherwise by Goyal as to the reasons. 750 crore right away is the demand (from EY).

Why doesn't Goyal fund the airline? This will sink jet quickly or save them. They problem with blackmail, is once you capitulate, you are the mark. EY will not accept Goyal's influence after this stunt.


I'm really loving the drama hapenning here :bitelip:
I'll be excited to see how all these are going to pan out for both Jet and Etihad.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:41 am

blrsea wrote:

The deal to rescue Jet AirwaysNSE -1.11 % has hit an air pocket. Lenders have told Jet’s strategic partner Etihad Airways that if it is unable to accept the terms to revive the troubled airline, it should exit so that a new investor can be brought in.


Makes sense. Since EY is bringing nothing to the table in this crisis situation, and at the same time wants control of the airline having things their way. NG did this first and now they are doing this. Lenders & employees are certainly not happy. This should have happened a long time ago i.e EY being out, but they just wanted to drag their feet.
They are going to be walking around with more bloody hands, after the end of Air Berlin and near collapse of Alitalia. And now even this.

Best for 9W would have been to have had GoI find a way to kick both NG and EY out of the airline 6 months back itself and found a way to give the airline to new investors.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:46 am

avier wrote:
... now they are doing this.
??? Does "they" mean EY? The article states that 9W notified DGCA about the cancellation... I read it that 9W cancelled service to AUH, not EY or the AUH ground service agent (Etihad Airport Services). NG still controls 9W. NG, alias 9W, made this chess move.

The popcorn budget at DL just increased.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:52 am

WPvsMW wrote:
avier wrote:
... now they are doing this.
??? Does "they" mean EY? The article states that 9W notified DGCA about the cancellation... I read it that 9W cancelled service to AUH, not EY or the AUH ground service agent (Etihad Airport Services). NG still controls 9W. NG, alias 9W, made this chess move.


Nothing to do with AUH flights.
Was referring to the investment drama that both EY and NG are doing in reference to my previous statement:

avier wrote:
Makes sense. Since EY is bringing nothing to the table in this crisis situation, and at the same time wants control of the airline having things their way. NG did this first and now they are doing this.
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:53 am

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
sibibom wrote:
I have no idea why people think this is some "masterstroke" by Naresh Goyal. It seems like a last ditch hail mary to save himself. He is pushing the company, the employees, the other stakeholders and all the fliers who have tickets under the bus.

What can be the possible outcomes? Etihad will never work with NG even if they save Jet, and banks will be wary of him as well. Every other investor looking at this will be wary of him as well.

I think Goyal's greed has done huge damage to the value of Jet. Whatever happens, Jet will be less because of him. The company needs a major reorganization.

The banks hope for a funding next week. What matters is the new investment. Either their
terms are good enough, or they won't invest. We'll find out within a few weeks.

Lightsaber


So, you are suggesting he should sit back and accept the "perpetuity" clause that prohibits him from investing beyond 22% after he invests $750 crore while Etihad which invests only an identical amount gets to impose those terms on him? How can that be fair?


Fair has got nothing to with it. If he doesn’t like EY terms, he is free to increase his own investment, or find a replacement investor. After today, EY will be happy to be replaced

Though I think he will find it hard to find another airline now - if you were Qatar or Delta and saw how Jet is acting towards its main code share and equity partner, I don’t think you would be in a hurry to jump
In
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:57 am

avier wrote:
blrsea wrote:

The deal to rescue Jet AirwaysNSE -1.11 % has hit an air pocket. Lenders have told Jet’s strategic partner Etihad Airways that if it is unable to accept the terms to revive the troubled airline, it should exit so that a new investor can be brought in.


Best for 9W would have been to have had GoI find a way to kick both NG and EY out of the airline 6 months back itself and found a way to give the airline to new investors.


You mean the point, where a few of us were screaming fire and despite all the smoke some vehemently denying any problems? Even today we are liars for pointing out the obvious.

The problem is not Etihad doesn't want to help or rescue, they just want Naresh Goyal out and ensure their investments can give returns eventually, else this cycle will continue. Naresh Goyal being the baniya businessman he is NEVER let go of control, even if Jet dies.

Today, Jet as a brand is dead, the company can probably be saved, but they will need to rebrand and hope people will forgive and forget.
Last edited by sibibom on Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:03 am

"Jet Airways" has a 1950's ring... best forgotten. Likewise, "Spice Jet". I propose "Masala"... concurrently Indian and Arabic, yet catchy for the West. ;)
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:04 am

sibibom wrote:
avier wrote:
blrsea wrote:



Best for 9W would have been to have had GoI find a way to kick both NG and EY out of the airline 6 months back itself and found a way to give the airline to new investors.


You mean the point, where a few of us were screaming fire and despite all the smoke and some vehemently denying any problems? Even today we are liars for pointing out the obvious.

The problem is not Etihad doesn't want to help or rescue, they just want Naresh Goyal out and ensure their investments can give returns eventually, else this cycle will continue. Naresh Goyal being the baniya businessman he is NEVER let go of control, even if Jet dies.

Today, Jet as a brand is dead, the company can probably be saved, but they will need to rebrand and hope people will forgive and forget.


Who ever denied problems at the airline? And what badge or certificate are you'll few on here trying to earn for bringing this point up again and again?
And what proof shows EY does really want to help the airline? Knowing they themselves such a loss making entity. Is this the first time EY has let a big airline collapse? Agree NG has his flaws, and I always pointed that out, but that certainly doesn't make the EY the good guy in this whole saga.
Lenders wanting EY out speaks a lot.
 
lutfi
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:44 am

EY did prebuy millions of USD of frequent flyer miles from Jet recently (25m USD I recall, or maybe 35m) which is reasonable proof that they want to help Jet.

But, if I were them (EY), I would be cutting losses now. and working on plan B As should the Indian banks.

I presume the best at this point is for banks/ NIIIF to take over, appoint a management team to restructure, then sell on
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:01 am

More than 60 planes are grounded now:
https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... um=twitter

This airline will not be flying in a few weeks' time.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
sibibom
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:09 am

avier wrote:
sibibom wrote:
avier wrote:

Best for 9W would have been to have had GoI find a way to kick both NG and EY out of the airline 6 months back itself and found a way to give the airline to new investors.


You mean the point, where a few of us were screaming fire and despite all the smoke and some vehemently denying any problems? Even today we are liars for pointing out the obvious.

The problem is not Etihad doesn't want to help or rescue, they just want Naresh Goyal out and ensure their investments can give returns eventually, else this cycle will continue. Naresh Goyal being the baniya businessman he is NEVER let go of control, even if Jet dies.

Today, Jet as a brand is dead, the company can probably be saved, but they will need to rebrand and hope people will forgive and forget.


Who ever denied problems at the airline? And what badge or certificate are you'll few on here trying to earn for bringing this point up again and again?
And what proof shows EY does really want to help the airline? Knowing they themselves such a loss making entity. Is this the first time EY has let a big airline collapse? Agree NG has his flaws, and I always pointed that out, but that certainly doesn't make the EY the good guy in this whole saga.
Lenders wanting EY out speaks a lot.


Check post 1792, even yesterday some of us are being called liars, when everything points to obvious. Now you don't question that or on what basis such conclusion are being drawn, but you seem to have a problem with me. Well so be it, I don't need a certificate from you, but nor I am going to keep quiet cos of a fear of being labeled a liar or an agent of Indigo.

Etihad may not be a good guy, but they are only ones with money who can save the airline, the employees and the fliers. And not just save Naresh Goyal as some people here seem to want. Whatever problems Etihad has all it needs a check from the rich owners, which they will not hesitate to do if there is a business case. Remember even the investment fund of AbuDhabi can invest. Every other investor is firmly out for now.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:21 am

If 9W survives, it could change foreign direct investment laws.
If 9W dissolves, it could change foreign direct investment laws.
Therefore, NG is acting in the best interests of India.
/sarcasm
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:25 am

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
sibibom wrote:
I have no idea why people think this is some "masterstroke" by Naresh Goyal. It seems like a last ditch hail mary to save himself. He is pushing the company, the employees, the other stakeholders and all the fliers who have tickets under the bus.

What can be the possible outcomes? Etihad will never work with NG even if they save Jet, and banks will be wary of him as well. Every other investor looking at this will be wary of him as well.

I think Goyal's greed has done huge damage to the value of Jet. Whatever happens, Jet will be less because of him. The company needs a major reorganization.

The banks hope for a funding next week. What matters is the new investment. Either their
terms are good enough, or they won't invest. We'll find out within a few weeks.

Lightsaber


So, you are suggesting he should sit back and accept the "perpetuity" clause that prohibits him from investing beyond 22% after he invests $750 crore while Etihad which invests only an identical amount gets to impose those terms on him? How can that be fair?

Fair. Because without Etihad money, 22% will be worth zero. And so will 50%.
 
smartplane
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:27 am

lutfi wrote:
EY did prebuy millions of USD of frequent flyer miles from Jet recently (25m USD I recall, or maybe 35m) which is reasonable proof that they want to help Jet.

But through IATA clearing house, so preferential creditor, and reversible if unused or airline fails.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:48 am

smartplane wrote:
lutfi wrote:
EY did prebuy millions of USD of frequent flyer miles from Jet recently (25m USD I recall, or maybe 35m) which is reasonable proof that they want to help Jet.

But through IATA clearing house, so preferential creditor, and reversible if unused or airline fails.

Wise move then, helping out, but getting some security in exchange.

Or was it expected that they mail a cheque, marked with "non-repayable grant" words, to meet the standards for "help"?
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blrsea
Posts: 1919
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:08 am

Jet grounded four more planes. It announced this in a filing to BSE

Jet Airways grounds 4 more planes for non-payment of lease rentals

Cash-strapped Jet AirwaysNSE 0.53 % Monday said it has grounded four more planes, taking the number of aircraft that are non-operational due to non-payment of lease rentals to 41.

Grappling with financial woes, the carrier has been looking at ways to raise fresh funds.

"... an additional four aircraft have been grounded due to non-payment of amounts outstanding to lessors under their respective lease agreements," the airline said in a filing to the stock exchanges.
...
...
"The payment of interest due on March 19, 2019, to the debenture holder will be delayed owing to temporary liquidity constraints," it said in a separate filing.
...
 
AI
Posts: 292
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:01 am

The whole saga is unnecessary & incredibly sad. It affects employees & passengers the most.

Just read the updated report on TOI about the suspension (?cancellation) of flights between India & AUH. It says that 9W has not revealed what is going to happen to pax booked on these flights & beyond. Poor passengers, being penalised for having faith & booking on 9W.

Mr Goyal may have an emotional attachment with the business he setup but he is behaving in a very irresponsible manner right now.

I have wanted 9W to survive & do well but I hope NG loses all control & is made to pay for putting his employees & passengers through this.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:22 pm

avier wrote:
blrsea wrote:

The deal to rescue Jet AirwaysNSE -1.11 % has hit an air pocket. Lenders have told Jet’s strategic partner Etihad Airways that if it is unable to accept the terms to revive the troubled airline, it should exit so that a new investor can be brought in.


Makes sense. Since EY is bringing nothing to the table in this crisis situation, and at the same time wants control of the airline having things their way. NG did this first and now they are doing this. Lenders & employees are certainly not happy. This should have happened a long time ago i.e EY being out, but they just wanted to drag their feet.
They are going to be walking around with more bloody hands, after the end of Air Berlin and near collapse of Alitalia. And now even this.

Best for 9W would have been to have had GoI find a way to kick both NG and EY out of the airline 6 months back itself and found a way to give the airline to new investors.


I'm glad the banks are finally stepping in. IMHO all this drama is because EY knows the AUH govt is on their side and 9W "thinks" the GOI and Indian banks will bailout 9W. So both sides are behaving badly. This is not normal business. This has clearly been a strategic game with leaks and threats all played for one side to win. Unfortunately it has been a game between fools (and kudos to the GOI for not flinching). The picture that some on this forum have painted is that Jet is a basket case. Ok then, EY should just run away. But no, they insist on a cheap takeover of Jet that screws other investors. Why? Goyal cancelling the AUH flights is the most blatant example of how this is all a big game. Jet clearly has value to EY, GOI, Goyals, etc. All this is stupid really. But now the time has come for the banks to basically take control of Jet. They should find another investor (read Tata) that strips affective control from the Goyals & EY. They can keep their equity or be bought out. Btw - IMHO, they should not allow Qatar to invest. My takeaway from EY's airlines investments is that they bring no really management expertise. They just want to use the airlines. Until aviation matures, India needs stable airline investors that bring strategic advice. Aviation is a national security asset. Qatar won't be any better than EY. The govt of AUH should never have allowed this spectacle to go public. There is no doubt in my mind that the UAE will continue to make big investments in India. Now, India should think twice when those investments are in strategic areas (and I am not absolving the Goyals who need to be given the boot in a big way).
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:33 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
If 9W survives, it could change foreign direct investment laws.
If 9W dissolves, it could change foreign direct investment laws.
Therefore, NG is acting in the best interests of India.
/sarcasm


No he is not. He is acting in the best interest of himself. Since neither EY nor Goyal are willing to save 9W with their own money, the banks have all the control. The banks have not taken Jet over yet because the banks are all GOI owned. AUH govt would have flipped out if one of their investments was taken over by the GOI. Plus Goyal has been unable to influence the current govt to give him money to save Jet (the banks are also saying Goyal has got to go). But seems like time is running out. The banks, read GOI, can pretty soon take over Jet without feeling the wrath of AUH. This is too public and too messy to continue. There are only two groups I can think of that has worked in the interest of India: (1) the public sector banks. They are willing to step up and not have India's transportation system hurt but are demanding real change at Jet (rather than the crony capitalism we saw in the past). So kudos to the GOI. And (2)the 9W employees and the unions have also behaved incredibly responsible (can you imagine if this was France) even though they have been treated like dirt by Goyal. I assume the GOI has been calming them down behind the scenes.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:43 pm

With lots of these reasons. Yet 9W flights to AUH is also suspended as of today until further notice.
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Lucien23
Posts: 3
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:51 pm

So no news on EY/JET/Banks deal?
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:01 pm

After PNQ-SIN was launched with much gusto, that is now gone as well.

In addition to further cuts to SIN, AUH, BKK, DAC, KWI and DOH.

Even a domestic heavyweight sector DEL-BLR is down to 1 daily at the moment, albeit on the A330.
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EmoticonsAllDay
Posts: 148
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:39 pm

With such unpredictable cancellations, why would anyone book on 9W? Can anyone please explain?
 
sibibom
Posts: 445
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:00 pm

Imagine the plight of people who have booked via AUH to destinations around the world. Pretty sure there will be no refunds for now.

As someone said this is a game of chess, and the two queens can fight all they want, but the customer aka the King is dead.
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 167
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:01 pm

You have got to expect public confidence to be impacting foward bookings at this point. That has to be another nail being put in.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:12 pm

lutfi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I think Goyal's greed has done huge damage to the value of Jet. Whatever happens, Jet will be less because of him. The company needs a major reorganization.

The banks hope for a funding next week. What matters is the new investment. Either their
terms are good enough, or they won't invest. We'll find out within a few weeks.

Lightsaber


So, you are suggesting he should sit back and accept the "perpetuity" clause that prohibits him from investing beyond 22% after he invests $750 crore while Etihad which invests only an identical amount gets to impose those terms on him? How can that be fair?


Fair has got nothing to with it. If he doesn’t like EY terms, he is free to increase his own investment, or find a replacement investor. After today, EY will be happy to be replaced

Though I think he will find it hard to find another airline now - if you were Qatar or Delta and saw how Jet is acting towards its main code share and equity partner, I don’t think you would be in a hurry to jump
In

Agreed. If Goyal doesn't like EY's terms, he has has since October to find other investors or to invest himself.

The drama is high.

Lightsaber
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Etihad released a statement that they are working with Jet and SBI on a solution:

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/mobile.reute ... SKCN1QZ1ME


My translation:. Not good enough yet. If Jet fails, EY is out sunk costs and a now poor reputation connecting partner. If Jet fails, SBI and Goyal are in for much worse. There is a reason I'm not a high stakes negotiator. EY must expunge Goyal after the stunt of cutting off Abu Dhabi. I you do not react harshly to bullying, it only becomes worse.

Goyal just proved if he has any control, he cannot be trusted.

I feel for employees. Any copilot that doesn't jump is foolish. Any captain that receives a good offer should consider it too.

This has gone an insanely long time. Since Goyal was in charge, he owns this mess.

Lightsaber

Late edit:

Now triple default on mid-term debt:
https://m.tribuneindia.com/article/jet- ... 745165/amp

Even later edit:

It appears by Indian law, 90 days is a non-performing asset:

https://m.economictimes.com/definition/ ... ing-assets
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sabby
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:23 pm

AI wrote:
The whole saga is unnecessary & incredibly sad. It affects employees & passengers the most.

Just read the updated report on TOI about the suspension (?cancellation) of flights between India & AUH. It says that 9W has not revealed what is going to happen to pax booked on these flights & beyond. Poor passengers, being penalised for having faith & booking on 9W.

Mr Goyal may have an emotional attachment with the business he setup but he is behaving in a very irresponsible manner right now.

I have wanted 9W to survive & do well but I hope NG loses all control & is made to pay for putting his employees & passengers through this.


I agree with you. This is really disgusting to see that he cares more about his control than actually help the employees by saving the airlines any way necessary. EY are no saint but if they infuse more money to bail out 9W, they are not wrong to demand more stake and/or ask NG to relinquish control. Whether EY can make a better strategy to revive 9W or just use it as a feed to their network is secondary, first the airlines need to be saved. 9W going under is a lose-lose-lose case for everyone involved.

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