master14225
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:19 am

When WS does a JV with KL & AF, they will not like 9W flying from AMS-YYZ as it's taking away traffic from WS opportunity to fly that route.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:24 am

Things have gone quiet on 9W over the last week.

Is it good news or bad news?
Vahroone
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:35 am

Spiderguy252 wrote:
Things have gone quiet on 9W over the last week.

Is it good news or bad news?

Quiet? Please read up a few posts.
Routes being cancelled.
Aircraft not being delivered.
Pilots calling in sick due to lack of pay.


The question is, what next? The Rupee recovery helps. The price of oil dropping helps.
But we need someone to step up with a fortune to save the airline and I'm not seeing the current ownership willing to truly sell out.

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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:20 pm

RobK wrote:
Hot news from my source at BFI : VT-JXF and VT-JXH have now been mothballed at Boeing Field. They've been moved off site to long-term storage across the street and are now fully sealed and taped up. I guess no more new frames for them until they pay their bills. VT-JXG is currently in flight testing but will probably see the same fate.


Small update here: JXF and JXH now have dates pencilled in to deliver to in January through GECAS from internal systems.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:01 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
Key is Running out of cash, at some point this becomes run out of cash,


9W is LH,UA,AF,KL's codeshare partner at Mumbai and Delhi. And EY is 24% owner

All 9W needs to generate $3.3 Billion annual revenue is
Mumbai-35 Domestic connections
Delhi - 35?? Domestic connections
Abu Dhabi - 19 International connections
LHR - India O&D and connections
AMS - India O&D and connections
CDG - MAA

Rest of the network is just to use surplus capacity in the system. May not be adding anything to the bottom line.

Unless EY, SkyTeam, LH, UA and other codeshare partners completely give up on 9W, chances of 9W running out cash is ZERO and just Times Group/A.net wishful thinking.

Exeiowa wrote:
we will see how long that takes, or if someone with deep pockets wants to backstop them.

If EY backstops it will recover quickly, otherwise it will recover slowly.
 
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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:16 pm

RobK wrote:
RobK wrote:
Hot news from my source at BFI : VT-JXF and VT-JXH have now been mothballed at Boeing Field. They've been moved off site to long-term storage across the street and are now fully sealed and taped up. I guess no more new frames for them until they pay their bills. VT-JXG is currently in flight testing but will probably see the same fate.


Small update here: JXF and JXH now have dates pencilled in to deliver to in January through GECAS from internal systems.


For clarification, JXF and JXH did deliver to GECAS in November are still under their control.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:47 pm

Jet airways credit downgraded.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/je ... ar-BBQNFUK

Speculative debt. Jet needs to change something or they will run out of cash.

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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:50 am

Just as we were worried about lack of information around Jet, Reuters has come up with an article detailing the status quo
https://www.reuters.com/article/jet-air ... SL4N1YA47A

Jet, which has a mainly Boeing Co fleet, has delayed pre-delivery payments to the Seattle-based aircraft maker as well as to Airbus SE, and is overdue on its repair and maintenance contracts, two sources aware of the matter said.
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:08 am

unrave wrote:
Just as we were worried about lack of information around Jet, Reuters has come up with an article detailing the status quo
https://www.reuters.com/article/jet-air ... SL4N1YA47A

Jet, which has a mainly Boeing Co fleet, has delayed pre-delivery payments to the Seattle-based aircraft maker as well as to Airbus SE, and is overdue on its repair and maintenance contracts, two sources aware of the matter said.


Why is 9W making payments to Airbus?
Vahroone
 
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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:13 pm

The Airbus reference is probably referring to the repair and maint contracts as they have A330s in their fleet.
 
eirflot
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:47 pm

Considering this topic started more than four months ago the cash must be gone by now!!!!!!!
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:51 pm

eirflot wrote:
Considering this topic started more than four months ago the cash must be gone by now!!!!!!!


Employee cash certainly is.
What the...?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:01 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
unrave wrote:
Just as we were worried about lack of information around Jet, Reuters has come up with an article detailing the status quo
https://www.reuters.com/article/jet-air ... SL4N1YA47A

Jet, which has a mainly Boeing Co fleet, has delayed pre-delivery payments to the Seattle-based aircraft maker as well as to Airbus SE, and is overdue on its repair and maintenance contracts, two sources aware of the matter said.


Why is 9W making payments to Airbus?

Whoa... They might have missed support payments?!? Ohhh.... That is really bad.

How many pilots have left?
How far in arrears are salaries and dues? Related question, what are 9W's paydays.

Missing payments on MAXes is bad, but the best of a poor cash situation.

Is there fuel paid timely?

Any lease default notices (a very lagging indicator).

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blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:13 am

Jet has applied for debt restructuring with SBI bank, and they have ordered forensic audit before considering the restructuring.

SBI orders forensic audit of Jet Airways’ books

The State Bank of India (SBI) has ordered a forensic audit of the books of Jet Airways (India) Ltd to examine the feasibility of restructuring its debts and identify potential red flags in accounts. The audit has been awarded to EY LLP, which will probe the troubled airlines’ books between 1 April 2014 and 31 March 2018, a person with direct knowledge of the matter said.
...
“In this case, we are looking at a debt restructuring proposal for Jet Airways and, therefore, a thorough audit is necessary,” the banker said, requesting not to be named. Lenders also conduct such forensic audits when they get credible complaints against a company, said a second banker.
..
SBI received a complaint in November where the allegations were “financial in nature” and asked the complainant to wait for the completion of the forensic audit, which had already been ordered, said the first banker.

An email sent to Jet Airways seeking comment remained unanswered till publishing of this story.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:20 am

SBI orders forensic audit of Jet Airways’ books
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/eMti ... books.html
The State Bank of India (SBI) has ordered a forensic audit of the books of Jet Airways (India) Ltd to examine the feasibility of restructuring its debts and identify potential red flags in accounts. The audit has been awarded to EY LLP, which will probe the troubled airlines’ books between 1 April 2014 and 31 March 2018,


NG would wish it was 2013 when airlines could get as much as money as they want from state run banks no questions asked.
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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:20 am

"EY LLP" = Etihad folks wanting to make sure everything is in order before throwing them a lifeline ? ? ? ?
 
blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:23 am

RobK wrote:
"EY LLP" = Etihad folks wanting to make sure everything is in order before throwing them a lifeline ? ? ? ?


Its Ernst & Young, one of the big 4 accounting firms
 
smartplane
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:51 am

RobK wrote:
The Airbus reference is probably referring to the repair and maint contracts as they have A330s in their fleet.

And ATR's.

Airbus offer one stop banking / finance arrangements, so this could be another reason for the payments.
 
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:33 pm

Antarius wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Blaming EY for problems at airlines like Air Berlin or AlItalia is being generous. If anything EY three good money after bad.

EY may not be ideal from 9W’s perspective but in reality what is 9W’s perspective?

What EY means is it will become ST bus to Abu Dhabi. Might I add, if successful, 9W may have enough cash to start some long haul non-stops.


But it does show that EY wasnt able to fix an already troubled airline. So what is EY going to do differently here to ensure that 9W (and they) can get into the black?

The hunter strategy of buying broke and structurally unsound airlines failed with Swissair in the 90s and EY over this past decade.


EY buying 9W is hardly about 9W.

It is about developing Abu Dhabi airport. Since u mentioned Swiss Air, it was reinvented as Swiss by the same money bags who thought it was critical to have some long hauls connectivity out of Zurich.

The rest is about Hogan’s ego. He was confused about the role he was hired to play. Couldn’t agree more with you regarding Air Berlin and AlItalia.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:58 am

Nikos Kardassis, the former CEO of Jet Airways, who made a come back to the carrier in an advisory role and was tasked to turnaround the cash-strapped airline, has once again parted ways with it.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 96271.html
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:53 pm

This is his third time!
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Slash787
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:01 pm

I have a feeling that in the next few weeks I will hear about a few more people leaving.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:56 pm

Jet Airways' shares drop over 4 per cent on reports of Nikos Kardassis' exit

https://www.timesnownews.com/business-e ... xit/332304
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:03 am

Looks like an audit is coming:
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/je ... ar-BBR42CB

How does someone quit a company 3 times? "It is you?" ;)

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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:09 am

Jet to return 8 Boeing 737 aircraft to lessors following cash crunch
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 251_1.html
Jet Airways is returning eight Boeing 737 Max aircraft to its lessors and delaying induction of new planes following a cash crunch.
Around 10 planes are grounded because of want of spares and maintenance. Several of its lessors have served default notices as the airline has been unable to pay lease rents on time. It has delayed salaries and vendor payments after losing over Rs 25 billion in the first half of FY19.
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:14 am

And so it begins....
 
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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:21 am

Presumably that must be the 5 in service JXA-E and the 3 parked at Seattle JXF/G/H. I just checked FR and JXA-E are all still in service as I write.
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:33 am

RobK wrote:
Presumably that must be the 5 in service JXA-E and the 3 parked at Seattle JXF/G/H. I just checked FR and JXA-E are all still in service as I write.


They are returning 737NGs not Max. It's a misinformation in the article.
They're delaying the delivery of Max.
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:37 am

binayak wrote:

They are returning 737NGs not Max. It's a misinformation in the article.
They're delaying the delivery of Max.


Correct. They are returning NG and delaying MAX deliveries.
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:42 am

What is the source for the "misinformation" that they are NGs and not Max frames please? The article seems pretty clear to me that they are Max frames plus if they're defaulting on lease payments the highest value assets would be first to go, which would of course be the Max frames.
 
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sq421
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:51 am

& now this...

DGCA monitoring Jet Airways’ financial health, safety issues

Aviation regulator DGCA is assessing the “health” of cash-crunched Jet Airways on a fortnightly basis following a financial audit of the carrier in August this year, a senior official said Wednesday.
As part of this exercise, which is carried out under a particular provision of a civil aviation requirement (CAR), various aspects of the airline’s functioning, including aircraft maintenance, are being looked at from the safety point of view, the official said.
“The health of Jet Airways is being monitored every 15 days. This is being done as per a CAR and the exercise started four to five months ago,” a senior Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) official said.

https://www.livemint.com/Companies/Zgl8DaQfRgtlS2qUwtDrDI/DGCA-monitoring-Jet-Airways-financial-health-safety-issues.html
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:08 am

RobK wrote:
What is the source for the "misinformation" that they are NGs and not Max frames please? The article seems pretty clear to me that they are Max frames plus if they're defaulting on lease payments the highest value assets would be first to go, which would of course be the Max frames.


It's confusing as other articles on this topic state something like : Jet has worked out a settlement with GE Capital Aviation Services (GECAS) and will return the eight 737s in the next few months before the lease period expires

Which makes it sound like older aircrafts returned before their lease expires. Also how can they return aircrafts (3 MAX) they haven't even taken delivery of ?
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:30 pm

Delivering planes as per plans: Boeing official on Jet Airways


https://wap.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/delivering-planes-as-per-plans-boeing-official-on-jet-airways-118122001103_1.html

787 order remains, as per article.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:38 pm

They are delivering plans to the lessor as per plans. It is the lessor who stores tbem
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:23 pm

Correct, Boeing has a contract for these specific frames with the lessor, not with Jet.
It is the lessor who is left holding the smelly brown bag (payments to Boeing) without getting lease payments from Jet.
 
smartplane
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:57 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
Correct, Boeing has a contract for these specific frames with the lessor, not with Jet.
It is the lessor who is left holding the smelly brown bag (payments to Boeing) without getting lease payments from Jet.

Sometimes Boeing Capital execute guarantee in favour of a friendly leasor, rather than fund / lease direct, so not certain Boeing has zero exposure.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:27 pm

smartplane wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
Correct, Boeing has a contract for these specific frames with the lessor, not with Jet.
It is the lessor who is left holding the smelly brown bag (payments to Boeing) without getting lease payments from Jet.

Sometimes Boeing Capital execute guarantee in favour of a friendly leasor, rather than fund / lease direct, so not certain Boeing has zero exposure.

For really bad credit airlines, Boeing has been left with the liability. I would be shocked if anyone else took the risk. Boeing had PR reasons to deliver MAX to Jet.

Is there a list of past due accounts with Jet?
Lease payments
Salaries
Fuel?

I'd love to know the 30+ day arrears. They obviously ran cash below sustainable levels. Loan covenants obviously are breached. If one decides the best course of action is declare default, that creates new issues.

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acvitale
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:09 pm

Lets not leave out the government being absolutely unreasonable and refusing to allow Jet Airways to integrate and merge wholy owned Jet Konnect and incorporate the cost savings from doubled administrative overhead, seperate crews and different aircraft configurations. That move was nothing but BS from the authorities and should have been permitted years ago.

Real problem is Government and Indigo. I prefer Jet Airways but now corruption and Indigo are driving the story.
 
VTORD
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:51 pm

acvitale wrote:
Lets not leave out the government being absolutely unreasonable and refusing to allow Jet Airways to integrate and merge wholy owned Jet Konnect and incorporate the cost savings from doubled administrative overhead, seperate crews and different aircraft configurations. That move was nothing but BS from the authorities and should have been permitted years ago.

And who's brilliant idea was it in the first place to run a mixed product offering of Jet-Jet Lite and Jet Konnect? I am pretty sure it wasn't the GoI.

acvitale wrote:
Real problem is Government and Indigo. I prefer Jet Airways but now corruption and Indigo are driving the story.

:roll: As has been stated multiple times, for the first 15 years of it's 25 year existence, 9W only had to compete with an inept and literally corrupt AI bogged down by unions and coalition government ministry quota mantris. Goyal's lobbying to keep SQ-Tata out of forming an airline are extremely well known. The man has a known issue of getting along with his C-suite and yet somehow everyone else except Jet is the real problem? :roll:
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Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:11 pm

VTORD wrote:
And who's brilliant idea was it in the first place to run a mixed product offering of Jet-Jet Lite and Jet Konnect? I am pretty sure it wasn't the GoI.


This is a key point. 9W embarked on what seems like aimless flailing as a business model. Very similar to Air Berlin - not sure if it's an FSC or LCC, long haul focused or short haul. Then EY got involved.

I still do not understand what Jet Konnect was.

As for separate AOC - The US3 have several airlines flying under their Eagle, Express and Connect brands. Yet its seamless to select seats, have your status show etc. But god forbid you ended up on a Jet airways operated by Jet Lite. It was a cluster fuck.
2018: AUA CLT IAH HOU DFW COS DEN CLL ORD PEK PVG PHX SFO SJC OAK PHL YYC STL DTW HNL OGG JFK LGA EWR GIG GRU IGU CWB SDU MDW BOS IAD DCA PBI FLL MIA
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:28 pm

There are some advantages to having separate AOCs, incident/accident/employee misbehavior blame gets spread across multiple AOCs.

In India, founders need a separate AOC when the time comes to depart from the original entity. Jet Lite is NG's lifeline.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:07 am

acvitale wrote:
Real problem is Government and Indigo. I prefer Jet Airways but now corruption and Indigo are driving the story.

Really? If anything, Jet Airways has benefited a lot from GoI's generosity towards it.
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
blrsea
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:19 am

EY is providing guarantee for $150 million loan for 9W

Jet Airways gets a lifeline; Etihad to be guarantor for $150 million loan

The board of Jet Airways at its meeting on Thursday is understood to have cleared a proposal to raise $150 million as soft loan, with its Abu Dhabi partner Etihad Airways standing as a guarantor. It is also understood that Etihad will help the struggling airline to get banks that can fast-track this funding as the Indian banks are cautious with regard to giving further loans to the carrier.
 
travelhound
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:34 am

At 852 posts I would have expected Jet Airways to have run out of cash by now!
 
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RobK
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:45 am

travelhound wrote:
At 852 posts I would have expected Jet Airways to have run out of cash by now!


Well if the EY money comes through, they'll be able to kick the can down the road for another 6? 12? months, so this thread still has some legs yet.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:50 am

$150 million will last one month at the rate Jet burns cash
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:39 am

unrave wrote:
$150 million will last one month at the rate Jet burns cash


Not that bad, for AI it would last barely few days.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:14 am

travelhound wrote:
At 852 posts I would have expected Jet Airways to have run out of cash by now!

They have run out of cash.

Lease issues and unpaid salary. They are bankrupt by any standard except for India's.
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:34 am

lightsaber wrote:
travelhound wrote:
At 852 posts I would have expected Jet Airways to have run out of cash by now!

They have run out of cash.

Lease issues and unpaid salary. They are bankrupt by any standard except for India's.


I'd add US to that list. Which is far worst than India in bankruptcy for airlines. They might pay their salaries to employees but wouldn't fullfill all their vendor obligations. And then they have Chapter 11 that allows restructuring.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:03 am

As predicted, NG's ego comes in the way of saving the airline. Both the Tatas and Etihad wanted management control before committing to equity infusion, NG resisted and now banks won't help without a concrete equity infusion plan. Not the first time an Indian promoter places his interest before that of his company
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