avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:12 am

NG is almost 70. If health on his side , he can go on with running his airline, otherwise it's better to make a graceful exit now and enjoy his post-retired life. I hope he's not saving the airline for his two kids. They'd be better off not into it.
I wouldn't want EY to get management control of 9W however, knowing they not the best at running an airline either. All they have is deep pockets. EK is comparatively much better run than EY.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:52 am

Just flew Jet in J AMS-BOM. Full flight. Really good service and didn’t seem to skimp on anything. Looks like they have kept some of EY’s meal presentation style. Lots of food choices and the second meal was more substantial than what I am used to getting. Plane was in good condition and clean. Only weird thing is an old complaint - no amenity kit just eye shades and socks. As an aside, they took meal orders in what looked like a random order of jumping around J class. I assume it was by status. I was asked very early on. Doubt they know my Delta Diamond status but maybe,
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:01 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Just flew Jet in J AMS-BOM. Full flight. Really good service and didn’t seem to skimp on anything. Looks like they have kept some of EY’s meal presentation style. Lots of food choices and the second meal was more substantial than what I am used to getting. Plane was in good condition and clean. Only weird thing is an old complaint - no amenity kit just eye shades and socks. As an aside, they took meal orders in what looked like a random order of jumping around J class. I assume it was by status. I was asked very early on. Doubt they know my Delta Diamond status but maybe,


That's nice to hear , like their optimistic sprit. Most naysayers on here would however have other things to say.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:54 am

Four months and 903 posts later, this airline just refuses to die!!

Lord have mercy!
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vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:03 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Just flew Jet in J AMS-BOM. Full flight. Really good service and didn’t seem to skimp on anything. Looks like they have kept some of EY’s meal presentation style. Lots of food choices and the second meal was more substantial than what I am used to getting. Plane was in good condition and clean. Only weird thing is an old complaint - no amenity kit just eye shades and socks. As an aside, they took meal orders in what looked like a random order of jumping around J class. I assume it was by status. I was asked very early on. Doubt they know my Delta Diamond status but maybe,


That is 2 flights a day, AMS-BOM and AMS-DEL.

How do they scale this up to stay relevant?
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:22 pm

After failing to raise money by selling its frequent flyer program, and failing to come to an agreement with Tatas, and failing to thresh out a deal with Etihad, Jet is now now knocking at the doors of SBI to raise Rs 1500 crore

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 313059.cms
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:48 pm

Kudos to 9W employees for surviving a tough 2018. Congratulations to Team Dube for surviving several waves of attacks from Times Group. Wish them the best 2019.
 
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pushpakvimaan
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:49 pm

unrave wrote:
After failing to raise money by selling its frequent flyer program, and failing to come to an agreement with Tatas, and failing to thresh out a deal with Etihad, Jet is now now knocking at the doors of SBI to raise Rs 1500 crore

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 313059.cms


Good luck with the Indian banks
I also doubt if it will make commercial sense. Raising capital from Indian banks will be likely at interest rates of 10%, which may be difficult to payback for Jet Airways which is struggling to be break even
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:28 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Kudos to 9W employees for surviving a tough 2018. Congratulations to Team Dube for surviving several waves of attacks from Times Group. Wish them the best 2019.


Unreal how you keep chalking real financial problems to crazy conspiracy theories.

This site is embarrassing at times encouraging fact free nonsense.
2018: AUA CLT IAH HOU DFW COS DEN CLL ORD PEK PVG PHX SFO SJC OAK PHL YYC STL DTW HNL OGG JFK LGA EWR GIG GRU IGU CWB SDU MDW BOS IAD DCA PBI FLL MIA
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:38 pm

pushpakvimaan wrote:
unrave wrote:
After failing to raise money by selling its frequent flyer program, and failing to come to an agreement with Tatas, and failing to thresh out a deal with Etihad, Jet is now now knocking at the doors of SBI to raise Rs 1500 crore

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 313059.cms


Good luck with the Indian banks
I also doubt if it will make commercial sense. Raising capital from Indian banks will be likely at interest rates of 10%, which may be difficult to payback for Jet Airways which is struggling to be break even

Jet is unfortunately bankrupt. The sooner everyone realizes that, the sooner a real exit strategy can be executed with a real buyer. Personally, either EY, QR, or 6E are the best choices, but only when debtors realize there is no business case to make them whole. Sadly, this includes employees.

It isn't anymore a question of if, but when Jet stops opperations. Kingfisher showed in India it is possible to stiff employees of salary for an extended time. That is just wrong. No employer should be able to work people without compensation.

This is ugly. No conspiracy, just another poorly managed airline in an industry where few are well managed.

If AI had failed (as it should have), Jet could have lingered on.

There is a small chance someone could save Jet. It is unlikely though.

Lightsaber
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avier
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:55 pm

Dear Mods, it's 2019 and this airline is still operating normally. It's been 5 months and 900+ posts, and still no sign of it actually having disappeared from the scene. I'd suggest this thread be locked till any further updates on the airlines situation comes up and for which a new thread be started if need be.
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:17 pm

Antarius wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Kudos to 9W employees for surviving a tough 2018. Congratulations to Team Dube for surviving several waves of attacks from Times Group. Wish them the best 2019.


Unreal how you keep chalking real financial problems to crazy conspiracy theories.

This site is embarrassing at times encouraging fact free nonsense.


Yes a bank wanting to do due diligence is ‘conspiracy’.

Even more embarrassing is no one is questioning NG as how some of the funds ‘disappeared’ from Jets Books. SBI is quiet right wanting some proper accounting for these actions.
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:22 pm

lightsaber wrote:

Jet is unfortunately bankrupt. The sooner everyone realizes that, the sooner a real exit strategy can be executed with a real buyer. Personally, either EY, QR, or 6E are the best choices, but only when debtors realize there is no business case to make them whole. Sadly, this includes employees.

Lightsaber


The banks realize this; they also realize that their ultimate masters are the politicians. This level of lending would not have happened without active political intervention.

The current policy has already recovered some 40k Crs. How NG is escaping the nooze amazes me.

How does one become a billionaire when your company has been piling up losses year after year.
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:25 pm

avier wrote:
Dear Mods, it's 2019 and this airline is still operating normally. It's been 5 months and 900+ posts, and still no sign of it actually having disappeared from the scene. I'd suggest this thread be locked till any further updates on the airlines situation comes up and for which a new thread be started if need be.


Actually this should be kept open.

Indian aviation will never reach any level of maturity unless it is capable of self-cleaning.

Let people post, even if they are some conspiracy theories.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:30 pm

You know you are in deep shit if you are asking for a 1500cr loan. I had hopes from Jet Airways especially for expanding new International routes from India, it is sad to see it failing.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:36 pm

vadodara wrote:
avier wrote:
Dear Mods, it's 2019 and this airline is still operating normally. It's been 5 months and 900+ posts, and still no sign of it actually having disappeared from the scene. I'd suggest this thread be locked till any further updates on the airlines situation comes up and for which a new thread be started if need be.


Actually this should be kept open.

Indian aviation will never reach any level of maturity unless it is capable of self-cleaning.

Let people post, even if they are some conspiracy theories.

Avier, please read prior posts with links on unpaid employees and leases. IMHO Jet is bankrupt. If employees were made whole today, I would agree to lock the thread.

Happy new year and I hope Jet's employees find a good new job.
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BawliBooch
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:12 am

Many have commented that part of the reason Jet cannot get out of this mess is that they do not have access to the "Dial a Loan" facility from Govt banks that they used to have BEFORE. You know things have changed now and all that jazz!

Buzz is that Jet has managed to secure just that! Except that it wont be just SBI but a consortium of Public Sector Banks that may be pushed to bail out Jet. Apparently, SBI which was "requested" to bail out Jet doesn't want to take full exposure. Some language about scissor cut/hair cut that I am trying to get my head around. So a consortium of Govt banks is being organized to bail out "Dawood's airline". My take? NG will use the security blanket of this backing from State banks to bargain hard with other potential investors he has been meeting.

Told you 800 posts before - Do not underestimate NG! And no - nothing has changed! :P
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:39 am

Most of Jet employees are getting their base salaries. Its the (substantial) incentives and allowances that have been withheld. But there is good news for Jet Employees in 2019. All arrears should be cleared within the month.

As for other airlines that had been gathering around like Vultures hoping to feed on Jet's carcass? Well - Indigo has its own problems now, and they are going to be huge in 2019. Tata-SQ are going to be most disappointed!
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Viman
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:18 am

Etihad is giving guarantee for this SBI loan and there is no consortium of Banks helping out Goyal:

"Jet Airways is in discussions with its largest lender to SBI for raising short-term loans worth Rs 1,500 crore. The airline is looking to mop up these funds to meet its working capital requirement as well as for meeting some payment obligations. Jet Airways is expected to provide Etihad Airways' guarantee for this financing," an airline source told PTI. "


Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/67313059.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:59 am

A truly remarkable achievement by Jet to survive 2018. Here's to a 2019 where Jet's employees are fully paid on time, Jet's new planes are not stored due to non payment of leases, Jet's old planes are not grounded for want of money to pay for spares and the dues to Jet's lenders are cleared. Although NG wishes the world hadn't moved on from 2013 when a phone call to the right person would have cured all his problems.
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:00 am

The loans advanced by Govt banks to the former Kingfisher airlines were also backed by group companies like United Breweries - investments by Foreign airlines was not legal then. These loans were being derisively refered to as "Dial a Loan". It was stated a number of times on this thread, that there was no way Govt banks will fund Jet today. That has now been proved wrong. Private banks are keeping their hands off for now, but a Govt bank is stepping in! Just as I had predicted.

As for my theory about SBI not wanting to go it alone and a consortium of Govt banks stepping in - lets wait for a week to see how this story develops.

The point is - Jet will secure financing, The doomsday scenario being painted turned out to be false after all!
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BawliBooch
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:25 am

Countering the reports, Boeing confirms that deliveries of 737MAX are on schedule.

Boeing says deliveries for Jet Airways on schedule

US-based Boeing Co. will continue to deliver aircraft as planned to Jet Airways (India) Ltd despite the Indian carrier’s financial troubles, a top Boeing executive said. “As far as we are concerned, the airplanes that we are building right now for Jet Airways are already sold to a lessor who will take the delivery. What will happen next only the lessor or Jet can answer,” said Dinesh Keskar, senior vice president of sales, Asia-Pacific and India, at Boeing Commercial Airplanes Inc. In July, the Naresh Goyal-led Jet Airways placed an order for 75 Boeing 737 Max aircraft. This was in addition to an order for 75 of the same aircraft that Jet Airways had placed in 2015.

Jet Airways’s financial performance does not impact Boeing as the former follows a sale and lease back (SLB) model, said Keskar. Under it, a lessor purchases the aircraft and leases it to the airline.

The fuel-efficient, narrow body aircraft will be delivered over 10 years, Boeing had earlier said. Jet inducted the first Boeing 737 Max in its fleet in June this year. The long standing order for ten 787 planes from remains intact and Jet has not cancelled the orders, Kesar said.


The plan was for Jet to use the first 12 737MAX's to retire an equal number of 737-800's. With the drawdown of operations on sectors like Kerala-Gulf, Jet is merely seeking to delay deliveries till the immediate cash problems are sorted out. The lessor would also feel more secure with the aircraft on his property.

As for the alleged groundings, the 737-800's were "grounded" on schedule. They are heading out to an operator in the Indian Ocean region from what I last heard. The MAX's have not immediately taken their place because Jet needs fewer 737's now because of the drawdown of operations. They will start coming in from March again.

I am given to understand that Jet is not giving up its slots/bilateral entitlements for the Gulf routes and that they have a 90 day window to decide. I feel once the cash flow situation is sorted out, the MAX's will come in as scheduled and these temporary route withdrawals will be reinstated. Do they really have a 90 day window or is that a Govt call? Anyway, it all rests on Jet securing financing to ride out the immediate cash flow issue and it seems they managed to do that.

The widebody issues are a different matter. All airlines in India operating widebodies are having issues with sourcing spares. I wonder why that is?
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VTCIE
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:49 am

unrave wrote:
A truly remarkable achievement by Jet to survive 2018.

I concur: Jet defied all our expectations. And, to survive 2019, 9W can make a start by:
1. Axing MAA-CDG. MAA has no other international route anyway.
2. Redesigning JetWings magazine with a new cover and not more than 80 pages. PLEASE.
3. Getting rid of the 777s and keeping only the A330s. I don't know why F on the 777 hasn't been axed yet.
4. Cancelling the 787 order. Those 787s were never going to come anyway.
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binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:51 am

VTCIE wrote:
unrave wrote:
A truly remarkable achievement by Jet to survive 2018.

I concur: Jet defied all our expectations. And, to survive 2019, 9W can make a start by:
1. Axing MAA-CDG. MAA has no other international route anyway.
2. Redesigning JetWings magazine with a new cover and not more than 80 pages. PLEASE.
3. Getting rid of the 777s and keeping only the A330s. I don't know why F on the 777 hasn't been axed yet.
4. Cancelling the 787 order. Those 787s were never going to come anyway.


Get rid of all 777s and then what? Downsize LHR which they didn't for a decade ?
About the F, they'd planned a complete redesign with F removed and J upgraded . However that's put on hold at the moment because of their financial woes. Refurbishing wide bodies cost quite a lot .
To all those who think the WBs are bringing the airline down, remember 10 77Ws , 6a330s ,and a handful of 737s (maybe 7-8) are making up for 67% of the revenues of this 120+ plane airline . Now I think it's crystal clear where the problem actually lies.
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vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:38 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Many have commented that part of the reason Jet cannot get out of this mess is that they do not have access to the "Dial a Loan" facility from Govt banks that they used to have BEFORE. You know things have changed now and all that jazz!

Buzz is that Jet has managed to secure just that! Except that it wont be just SBI but a consortium of Public Sector Banks that may be pushed to bail out Jet. Apparently, SBI which was "requested" to bail out Jet doesn't want to take full exposure. Some language about scissor cut/hair cut that I am trying to get my head around. So a consortium of Govt banks is being organized to bail out "Dawood's airline". My take? NG will use the security blanket of this backing from State banks to bargain hard with other potential investors he has been meeting.

Told you 800 posts before - Do not underestimate NG! And no - nothing has changed! :P


Very comforting to know that Jet Airways operates without adherence of any rules or regulations.

Perhaps this culture extends to safety and training as well.
 
sabby
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:52 am

binayak wrote:
Get rid of all 777s and then what? Downsize LHR which they didn't for a decade ?
About the F, they'd planned a complete redesign with F removed and J upgraded . However that's put on hold at the moment because of their financial woes. Refurbishing wide bodies cost quite a lot .
To all those who think the WBs are bringing the airline down, remember 10 77Ws , 6a330s ,and a handful of 737s (maybe 7-8) are making up for 67% of the revenues of this 120+ plane airline . Now I think it's crystal clear where the problem actually lies.


I agree with you, 9W should focus on international routes and cut down on non-metro P2P routes if they really want to survive on their own. Next step, cut out a lot of the fat at the higher management who take major chunks of the salary expenditure but make sure ground/mx crews are paid in time. Take advantage of the bilateral limits of ME/TK airlines and build focus cities to capture the constantly growing int'l market. If they can get capital to refurbish the aircrafts as well as improve service/food in economy, they can get higher yield in EU non stops. This is 2019, India has a quite large population with substantial disposable income who likes to have regular EU/NA vacations - capture that traffic with better timing and non stops to get better yield. Of course, all these might be too late considering they are facing difficulties even paying leases.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:26 am

VTCIE wrote:
I concur: Jet defied all our expectations. And, to survive 2019, 9W can make a start by:

0. Raise money. Lot of money.
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:38 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
Most of Jet employees are getting their base salaries. Its the (substantial) incentives and allowances that have been withheld. But there is good news for Jet Employees in 2019. All arrears should be cleared within the month.

As for other airlines that had been gathering around like Vultures hoping to feed on Jet's carcass? Well - Indigo has its own problems now, and they are going to be huge in 2019. Tata-SQ are going to be most disappointed!

Please post a link. Up thread there were missed payments in links.


Cleared within the month?!? This is the first I heard of that. Please post your source. Up thread there were promises by April.

We know from Kingfisher that an airline can be bankrupt in India for an extended time yet still fly.

What new information on Jet did I miss?
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:19 pm

lightsaber wrote:

Cleared within the month?!? This is the first I heard of that. Please post your source. Up thread there were promises by April.

We know from Kingfisher that an airline can be bankrupt in India for an extended time yet still fly.

What new information on Jet did I miss?


Even the official Jet Airways communication states that salary arrears will be regularised only from April.
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:24 pm

Jet needs $350 Million, so far it has funding/pledges/loan guarantees from EY for $185 Million, $35 Million FFP buyout + $150 Million loan guarantees.

The sad part even with EY loan guarantee, they still have source WC loans within India. Hopefully, EY(UAE) can arm twist PSBs to give a better rate.

Selling 77Ws doesn't make sense they own those frames. If they have surplus WBs, A33xs should be returned and cut those routes.

9W just need
1)Mumbai/Delhi/LHR slots
2)SkyTeam EU feeds
3)Codeshare agreements Mumbai/Delhi - 28 domestic cities (ignore NE)
4)AUH feeder

I think 9W hardly needs 50 x 737s to maintain the same revenue levels.
It can rationalize their domestic route further, return more NBs, and basically get out of the mud pit called domestic network. Let others roll in it.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:32 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Jet needs $350 Million, so far it has funding/pledges/loan guarantees from EY for $185 Million, $35 Million FFP buyout + $150 Million loan guarantees....

....and basically get out of the mud pit called domestic network. Let others roll in it.

Sorry, Jet needs lot more money than that just to repay their loans. They lose more than a million every day. There's something called Route Disbursal Guidelines. Jet cannot simply walk away from non metro domestic routes.
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:10 pm

unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Jet needs $350 Million, so far it has funding/pledges/loan guarantees from EY for $185 Million, $35 Million FFP buyout + $150 Million loan guarantees....

....and basically get out of the mud pit called domestic network. Let others roll in it.

Sorry, Jet needs lot more money than that just to repay their loans. They lose more than a million every day. There's something called Route Disbursal Guidelines. Jet cannot simply walk away from non metro domestic routes.

The losses of over $1 million usd need to be repeated. Until they undergo significant reform, they are digging a deeper hole. I estimate they need 750+ million to turn around and recover if a brutally efficient turn around is put into place. The current pace will burn through a minimum of $1,200 million usd. Oops.

Lightsaber
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:24 pm

Old news, but a reminder about Jet's lease defaults in case you thought it was all fake news about aircraft being stored and grounded
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/WqQ3 ... ssors.html
et Airways (India) Ltd has received notices from some aircraft leasing companies for delays and defaults on rental payments, the airline said

The report is dated 31OCT18 and we are pretty sure that the airline is not current on its leases.
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:30 pm

unrave wrote:
Old news, but a reminder about Jet's lease defaults in case you thought it was all fake news about aircraft being stored and grounded
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/WqQ3 ... ssors.html
et Airways (India) Ltd has received notices from some aircraft leasing companies for delays and defaults on rental payments, the airline said

The report is dated 31OCT18 and we are pretty sure that the airline is not current on its leases.

Being in arrears 2+ months shifts the onus onto showing they have become current.

In particular on salaries and payments to employees. I haven't seen a link showing they are current. Jet has unfortunately lost the benefit of the doubt. IMHO management incompetence to let it go this far. An investigation is past due.

Lightsaber
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jordanh
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:33 pm

vadodara wrote:
Perhaps this culture extends to safety and training as well.


While it is obvious much of this thread is driven by Jet's competitors, questioning an airlines dedication to safety is beyond the pale. F.Y.I., it has the same safety rating as Indigo, and a higher rating than many Indian airlines.

Try to stick to facts if you expect to be taken seriously. Scare tactics will backfire.

unrave wrote:
The report is dated 31OCT18 and we are pretty sure that the airline is not current on its leases.


Who is "we"? If you want to make a claim, please show it is factual - not another attempt to denigrate a competitor.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:35 pm

IF I was Etihad I would not put my money on Jet Airways, EY themselves are not stable at the moment. There are chances of 9W to come out of it, but things really don't look good for them. It will be sad to see 9W go and Air India still be there. Air India really needs to dissolve.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:40 pm

jordanh wrote:
Who is "we"? If you want to make a claim, please show it is factual - not another attempt to denigrate a competitor.

How much more factual it can get than an official statement from the airline! Did you at least open the link?
We = financial analysts who cover Indian aviation
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Antarius
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:50 pm

jordanh wrote:
While it is obvious much of this thread is driven by Jet's competitors,


Is it? This is just the same shouting of "fake news" by a certain politician when they dont have any counter arguments.

I used to fly 9W on EWR-BRU-DEL relatively often. As the product got worse (not to mention the cluster that was Jet, Jet Lite and Jet Konnect, which as someone booking from overseas was a mess) I switched over to taking CX in and out of the country and to SG and 6E for domestic hops.

Most people here, including me, are airline enthusiasts. No more, no less. Denigrating our opinions of a clearly unstable situation doesnt fix anything. As a consumer, I want convenient - not an ever changing lounge and meal policy.
2018: AUA CLT IAH HOU DFW COS DEN CLL ORD PEK PVG PHX SFO SJC OAK PHL YYC STL DTW HNL OGG JFK LGA EWR GIG GRU IGU CWB SDU MDW BOS IAD DCA PBI FLL MIA
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:57 pm

Antarius wrote:
jordanh wrote:
While it is obvious much of this thread is driven by Jet's competitors,


Is it? This is just the same shouting of "fake news" by a certain politician when they dont have any counter arguments.

Who's driven by a 9W competitor? Most people here, including me, are airline enthusiasts. No more, no less. Denigrating our opinions of a clearly unstable situation doesnt fix anything. As a consumer, why would less offerings help me?

I too am just an enthusiast. We've posted links on the ongoing issues. Jet's own PR notes they will not come current until April.

I just posted I believe they need $750 million to $1,200 million to keep opperating.

If someone has a different number, how about a quantifications of arrears? We can only estimate.

Because of how badly Kingfisher failed, which stalled aircraft leasing in India, the enthuasts will be very interested in Jet. In particular due to the billions of USD AI needs.

India is a historically low yield market. Adapt.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Because of how badly Kingfisher failed, which stalled aircraft leasing in India, the enthuasts will be very interested in Jet. In particular due to the billions of USD AI needs.


And similarly, if 9W adapts and turns around, we'd have no qualms discussing their success story and flying them again regularly. Heck, I flew AI last year to see if they had improved over the last 5 years (answer is absolutely not).

There are clear financial issues. 9W's own statements indicate they are behind. They are cutting things like lounge access for their frequent flyers without notice. As a consumer, why would I subject myself to this when there are options?

Theres no agenda here. Other than the ones peddling the fact that there is some cloak and dagger "agenda" to detract from the real news and financial situation.
2018: AUA CLT IAH HOU DFW COS DEN CLL ORD PEK PVG PHX SFO SJC OAK PHL YYC STL DTW HNL OGG JFK LGA EWR GIG GRU IGU CWB SDU MDW BOS IAD DCA PBI FLL MIA
 
avier
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:23 pm

No one can deny 9W's issues plaguing them. However the general tone of this thread is overly pessimistic. Most's views on here seem like its already over for the airline with no hopes, which is a bit annoying to read .

I can't imagine a bankrupt airline still operating most of their schedule. I remember KF had immediately shown signs of distress through downsizing to a third of their fleet almost immediately and so did SG show those signs. Not with this airline however.
Can someone pull up some stats on their current OTP, Technical Dispatch Reliability & Dispatch Reliability of schedules, etc. ? From their earnings conference call, the numbers they state are impressive on those above said parameters for a so called dead and no hopes airline.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/earnings/jet-airways-q2-fy2019-earnings-conference-call-3343451.html
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:36 pm

avier wrote:
No one can deny 9W's issues plaguing them. However the general tone of this thread is overly pessimistic. Most's views on here seem like its already over for the airline with no hopes, which is a bit annoying to read .

I can't imagine a bankrupt airline still operating most of their schedule

Are they? This year Jet has reduced domestic and international capacity by 8% and 10% respectively, in a market that has grown 20%. The corresponding figures for IndiGo are growth of 20% and 30%
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
binayak
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:36 pm

Antarius wrote:

There are clear financial issues. 9W's own statements indicate they are behind. They are cutting things like lounge access for their frequent flyers without notice.


Although their website shows it's temporary , I always felt there's little need for a "complimentary " lounge access for gold /platinum Y travellers when the same is or can be provided by the same airline's co branded credit cards .
For ex their Amex card provides lounge access in 9 cities and its annual renewal charges are waived off for platinums. The same facility can be extended to gold as well. This reduces the need for complimentary lounge access thus reducing costs for the airline.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
avier
Posts: 327
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:54 pm

unrave wrote:
avier wrote:
No one can deny 9W's issues plaguing them. However the general tone of this thread is overly pessimistic. Most's views on here seem like its already over for the airline with no hopes, which is a bit annoying to read .

I can't imagine a bankrupt airline still operating most of their schedule

Are they? This year Jet has reduced domestic and international capacity by 8% and 10% respectively, in a market that has grown 20%. The corresponding figures for IndiGo are growth of 20% and 30%

And where do you get those numbers from ? Considering they redeployed most of the axed int'l flights from the south to their other major hubs. They also added MAN. I can understand domestic reductions, considering it's the worst performing for them and AI. So some rationalization does make sense for an airline that's restructuring. It's not like they aren't operating half their fleet right now and cut those flights because their aircrafts were repossessed or something along those lines.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:58 pm

avier wrote:
And where do you get those numbers from ?

Have you heard of somebody called DGCA? Are you aware that they publish monthly traffic data?
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.
 
avier
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:44 pm

unrave wrote:
avier wrote:
And where do you get those numbers from ?

Have you heard of somebody called DGCA? Are you aware that they publish monthly traffic data?

Yes, I'm aware of that. But I wouldn't dig through that website for anything ever.
The point still remains, even with those numbers you post, that they aren't displaying qualities like KF or SG did in their troubled days , and aren't down 50-70% of their capacity or fleet. Their schedules are operating as normal and their dispatch rate remains good. They are restructuring and cutting down unviable routes, but they are also launching new routes or flights ( by redeploying capacity elsewhere), which a very troubled airline would never do. A very troubled airline would only downsize quickly and never launch and market new flights. So again, don't make it look like in the worst possible light.
 
vadodara
Topic Author
Posts: 729
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:05 pm

jordanh wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Perhaps this culture extends to safety and training as well.


While it is obvious much of this thread is driven by Jet's competitors, questioning an airlines dedication to safety is beyond the pale. F.Y.I., it has the same safety rating as Indigo, and a higher rating than many Indian airlines.

Try to stick to facts if you expect to be taken seriously. Scare tactics will backfire.


So seems like the media reports about Jet pilots forgetting to pressurize the flight must be fake news. There are few more reports on these lines.

What happens to maintenance when airline has no money to pay salaries? Care to explain that?

And by the way what do you mean by ‘driven by jet’s competitors? If you must question, direct to NG and his oversized ego. People are asking fair questions why SBI should bail out Jet.
 
vadodara
Topic Author
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Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:09 pm

Antarius wrote:
jordanh wrote:
While it is obvious much of this thread is driven by Jet's competitors,


Is it? This is just the same shouting of "fake news" by a certain politician when they dont have any counter arguments.

I used to fly 9W on EWR-BRU-DEL relatively often. As the product got worse (not to mention the cluster that was Jet, Jet Lite and Jet Konnect, which as someone booking from overseas was a mess) I switched over to taking CX in and out of the country and to SG and 6E for domestic hops.

Most people here, including me, are airline enthusiasts. No more, no less. Denigrating our opinions of a clearly unstable situation doesnt fix anything. As a consumer, I want convenient - not an ever changing lounge and meal policy.


+1

Running an airline requires a bit more than serving Rum and Coke with Idly Sambhar.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6411
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:23 am

vadodara wrote:
jordanh wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Perhaps this culture extends to safety and training as well.


While it is obvious much of this thread is driven by Jet's competitors, questioning an airlines dedication to safety is beyond the pale. F.Y.I., it has the same safety rating as Indigo, and a higher rating than many Indian airlines.

Try to stick to facts if you expect to be taken seriously. Scare tactics will backfire.


So seems like the media reports about Jet pilots forgetting to pressurize the flight must be fake news. There are few more reports on these lines.

What happens to maintenance when airline has no money to pay salaries? Care to explain that?

And by the way what do you mean by ‘driven by jet’s competitors? If you must question, direct to NG and his oversized ego. People are asking fair questions why SBI should bail out Jet.


Is there any official press release from TATAs about negotiations with Jet? No.
Is there a filing by TATAs with securities regulators on the same. No. Jet filed a report to the contrary.
The entire "Tata buying Jet" news cycle was based on ToI/BS claiming unnamed sources. This would have triggered an investigation against TATAs in any other country, as 9W share value fluctuated on this news.

How many of 124 are repoed if 9W is not paying leases so far?
How many pilots quit 9W?
Backup with some numbers and facts.

Actually, 9W's OTP is better than 6E's.
 
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unrave
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: reports cash running out

Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:40 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Is there a filing by TATAs with securities regulators on the same.

Why would TATAs have to make a filing when they are not even listed? Amreekan regulations do not apply to Indian companies.

Actually, 9W's OTP is better than 6E's.

If I launch an airline I will operate a single daily return flight. That way I can claim 100% OTP record.
India: World's fastest growing major economy. World's fastest growing aviation market.

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