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spinotter
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:59 pm

reasonable wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
rangercarp wrote:
And just why is that good?


Annnnnnddddd......here weeeeee gooooo.


rangercarp's question isn't unreasonable. Surely this will impact connecting traffic to flights from DTW, MSP, and ATL to ICN, but this is more about meeting surging market growth to primary and secondary cities throughout Asia from routes serviced through multiple hubs, just like AMS and CDG.

Why would it be "rather good" to see connecting traffic taken away from one route versus another unless you're a little child with a crippling insecurity who uses these things as small ball self-worth boosts.

I'm sure the people at Delta would laugh dismissively at 777Mech's pathetic comment.


What is it about those DTW fanboys and fangirls and the anti-DTWers that makes discussions of DTW come up in the unlikeliest threads? It's creepy and I agree 100% about the little child with crippling insecurities. It gets very boring and tiresome.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 3022
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:13 pm

spinotter wrote:
reasonable wrote:
chrisnh wrote:

Annnnnnddddd......here weeeeee gooooo.


rangercarp's question isn't unreasonable. Surely this will impact connecting traffic to flights from DTW, MSP, and ATL to ICN, but this is more about meeting surging market growth to primary and secondary cities throughout Asia from routes serviced through multiple hubs, just like AMS and CDG.

Why would it be "rather good" to see connecting traffic taken away from one route versus another unless you're a little child with a crippling insecurity who uses these things as small ball self-worth boosts.

I'm sure the people at Delta would laugh dismissively at 777Mech's pathetic comment.


What is it about those DTW fanboys and fangirls and the anti-DTWers that makes discussions of DTW come up in the unlikeliest threads? It's creepy and I agree 100% about the little child with crippling insecurities. It gets very boring and tiresome.


Except that 777Mech's comments made perfect sense when he clarified that it will push more connections through ICN which is an outstanding facility. How again is that childish? Additional connections through ICN (and soon MSP) make for more comprehensive coverage for passengers across the country, how is that a bad thing?

Jeremy
 
iyerhari
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:13 pm

jumbojet wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
Finally, another good add by Korean air. Im glad connections will be taken away from Dtw as the northeast and beyond have a better place to connect in bos.


connections will be taken away from OW and *A. As a whole, DL won't lose anything but gain passengers. Detroit only has one daily 350 to ICN. When you think back to before the 350 when DL flew the 747 on DTW-ICN, thats still a lot of lost capacity that can get filled in by a city like BOS.

There is no doubt this JV with Korean outsmarts UA and AA.

Good point - but AA has JVs with JL and CX today although I do not know how many pax are fueled through connections. I personally know of passengers from PHL, PIT who connect at BOS to go to Asia vs. traveling to JFK or ORD. AA is making connections more and more difficult for non-hub routes to connect at BOS - PIT retrenchment and barring a few choices like PHL left, JL and CX may end up becoming more O&D which I personally believe maybe anyways the case. DL JVs IMO will help serve DL and connections as DL is continually adding destinations from BOS.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:14 pm

iyerhari wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
Finally, another good add by Korean air. Im glad connections will be taken away from Dtw as the northeast and beyond have a better place to connect in bos.


connections will be taken away from OW and *A. As a whole, DL won't lose anything but gain passengers. Detroit only has one daily 350 to ICN. When you think back to before the 350 when DL flew the 747 on DTW-ICN, thats still a lot of lost capacity that can get filled in by a city like BOS.

There is no doubt this JV with Korean outsmarts UA and AA.

Good point - but AA has JVs with JL and CX today although I do not know how many pax are fueled through connections. I personally know of passengers from PHL, PIT who connect at BOS to go to Asia vs. traveling to JFK or ORD. AA is making connections more and more difficult for non-hub routes to connect at BOS - PIT retrenchment and barring a few choices like PHL left, JL and CX may end up becoming more O&D which I personally believe maybe anyways the case. DL JVs IMO will help serve DL and connections as DL is continually adding destinations from BOS.


I don't recall AA having a JV with CX, only JL. Did something change within their alliance?

Jeremy
 
iyerhari
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:19 pm

SESGDL wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

connections will be taken away from OW and *A. As a whole, DL won't lose anything but gain passengers. Detroit only has one daily 350 to ICN. When you think back to before the 350 when DL flew the 747 on DTW-ICN, thats still a lot of lost capacity that can get filled in by a city like BOS.

There is no doubt this JV with Korean outsmarts UA and AA.

Good point - but AA has JVs with JL and CX today although I do not know how many pax are fueled through connections. I personally know of passengers from PHL, PIT who connect at BOS to go to Asia vs. traveling to JFK or ORD. AA is making connections more and more difficult for non-hub routes to connect at BOS - PIT retrenchment and barring a few choices like PHL left, JL and CX may end up becoming more O&D which I personally believe maybe anyways the case. DL JVs IMO will help serve DL and connections as DL is continually adding destinations from BOS.


I don't recall AA having a JV with CX, only JL. Did something change within their alliance?

Jeremy

Sorry my bad! I always get confused between JV and codeshare - I looked it up. AA has a JV with JL and not with CX. My apologies.
 
klakzky123
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:23 pm

thekorean wrote:
If anyone adds ICN-SLC its gonna be DL and not KE.

Lots of demand on Korean end for BOS. Not so much SLC.


I would agree but they have to right size the aircraft. KE is the one with 787s. DL will presumably move a330s onto TATL routes over time. So until DL gets a330-900neo deliveries, I dont think they have the right aircraft to launch this.
 
wenders825
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:03 pm

jumbojet wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
Finally, another good add by Korean air. Im glad connections will be taken away from Dtw as the northeast and beyond have a better place to connect in bos.


connections will be taken away from OW and *A. As a whole, DL won't lose anything but gain passengers. Detroit only has one daily 350 to ICN. When you think back to before the 350 when DL flew the 747 on DTW-ICN, thats still a lot of lost capacity that can get filled in by a city like BOS.

There is no doubt this JV with Korean outsmarts UA and AA.

your DL fanboyism is showing. if Korean was so much smarter than AA/OW then why didn't they beat JL and CX to starting BOS-Asia? AA has a massive FF base in BOS that helped boost these flights well. DL/KE are late to the party. they'll do well, I just fail to understand your comment aside from your blatant homer-ism.
 
airbazar
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:06 pm

wenders825 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
Finally, another good add by Korean air. Im glad connections will be taken away from Dtw as the northeast and beyond have a better place to connect in bos.


connections will be taken away from OW and *A. As a whole, DL won't lose anything but gain passengers. Detroit only has one daily 350 to ICN. When you think back to before the 350 when DL flew the 747 on DTW-ICN, thats still a lot of lost capacity that can get filled in by a city like BOS.

There is no doubt this JV with Korean outsmarts UA and AA.

your DL fanboyism is showing. if Korean was so much smarter than AA/OW then why didn't they beat JL and CX to starting BOS-Asia? AA has a massive FF base in BOS that helped boost these flights well. DL/KE are late to the party. they'll do well, I just fail to understand your comment aside from your blatant homer-ism.

Exactly. Everyone on the Boston threads has been wondering for years now, when DL/KE would add a link to ICN. Before BOS had any flights to Asia, NRT, HKG, and ICN were the 3 largest markets from BOS. This was back in 2011. It has only taken DL/KE 7 years to make up their mind.
 
bomber996
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:17 pm

wenders825 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
Finally, another good add by Korean air. Im glad connections will be taken away from Dtw as the northeast and beyond have a better place to connect in bos.


connections will be taken away from OW and *A. As a whole, DL won't lose anything but gain passengers. Detroit only has one daily 350 to ICN. When you think back to before the 350 when DL flew the 747 on DTW-ICN, thats still a lot of lost capacity that can get filled in by a city like BOS.

There is no doubt this JV with Korean outsmarts UA and AA.

your DL fanboyism is showing. if Korean was so much smarter than AA/OW then why didn't they beat JL and CX to starting BOS-Asia? AA has a massive FF base in BOS that helped boost these flights well. DL/KE are late to the party. they'll do well, I just fail to understand your comment aside from your blatant homer-ism.


It's pretty clear this KE route is a direct result from the recent JV between DL and KE. Let's look to when AA and JL signed their JV. It is almost directly correlated to JL starting service at BOS. I don't think either route would have happened so successfully without a Joint Venture.

Peace :box:
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Has there been a date published yet as to when the route goes on sale?
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:08 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Could a flight to/from India even make money?


It could make money, but you'd have to find a competent carrier to pull it off, all the airlines of India are too dysfunctional at this point and American carriers seem to find these routes to be not worth the headache.

That said, my guess at this point Delta is the most likely to launch a route to india.
 
johhn14
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:11 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Has there been a date published yet as to when the route goes on sale?

Later this summer according to the press release
 
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tlecam
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:51 pm

chrisnh wrote:
rangercarp wrote:
777Mech wrote:
It's rather good to see some connecting traffic taken away from DTW.
And just why is that good?


Annnnnnddddd......here weeeeee gooooo.



That made me LOL.
 
YYZflyboy
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:04 pm

mdavies06 wrote:
congrats to BOS, KE and DL on this route launch. Looking at the schedule of this new flight, it connects to South East Asia and Korea itself best, but (ICN->BOS leg) misconnect with China and Japan. Based on this it appears that CX will be the most impacted, followed by EK, QR, JL, HU having a smaller impact. It will be interesting to see what this flight does to the LF of these carriers into 2019 if any.


There are also many Singaporean and Malaysian international students that fly on EK/QR/JL/CX to Boston to get to Harvard/MIT/BC. Now they can also connect via ICN.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:35 pm

Regarding the DTW impact -

I don't think that the BOS flight or the MSP flight is bad for DTW. DL and KE are going to pump tons of traffic through ICN. It makes sense to quickly start connecting the DL US hubs. I wouldn't be surprised if DTW gets a second flight at some point. I also wouldn't be surprised to see SLC get a flight at some point.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:18 pm

YYZflyboy wrote:
mdavies06 wrote:
congrats to BOS, KE and DL on this route launch. Looking at the schedule of this new flight, it connects to South East Asia and Korea itself best, but (ICN->BOS leg) misconnect with China and Japan. Based on this it appears that CX will be the most impacted, followed by EK, QR, JL, HU having a smaller impact. It will be interesting to see what this flight does to the LF of these carriers into 2019 if any.


There are also many Singaporean and Malaysian international students that fly on EK/QR/JL/CX to Boston to get to Harvard/MIT/BC. Now they can also connect via ICN.


Don't discount Thailand and Indonesia too!

BU's top 10 countries sending international students for 2017
China 4705
India 998
South Korea 440
Canada 334
Taiwan, R.O.C. 312
Saudi Arabia 229
Turkey 150
Japan 135
Thailand 125
Indonesia 123

https://www.bu.edu/isso/about/statistics/fall-2017/

Harvard has more students from Singapore and Malaysia than Indonesia/Thailand and more European students as a percentage.
http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

MIT has a lot of students from Singapore compared to rest of Southeast Asia.
https://iso.mit.edu/about/country_17-18.shtml

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also providing a fair amount of students at all of these schools.
 
TW870
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:04 am

Great add by KE with the perfect aircraft to start this route.

My question, though, is what comes next for the JV given the pilot negotiations in 2019. BOS was a given, but I wondered if they would add it on DL metal to set the stage for better negotiations. Guess not. Given the massive amount of KE metal across the Pacific, we should expect either some new adds from DL, or rough negotiations. My hunch is both JFK and LAX on DL metal (supplementing or replacing KE sections), and possibly SAN or even PDX on DL metal. Issue of course will be aircraft availability - but with all of the A332 flying in DTW that doesn't require that airplane's range, they can back fill it with the 7ER fleet and then have the 332 do some of the new flying.

Oh, and that was not a jab at DTW. Just a basic analysis of A330-200 scheduling!
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:14 am

Stupid question but will this 789 need to be weight-restricted during any part of the year? Can it go out full, upstairs and downstairs, all year long?
 
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globetrotter94
Posts: 427
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:27 am

adamh8297 wrote:
YYZflyboy wrote:
mdavies06 wrote:
congrats to BOS, KE and DL on this route launch. Looking at the schedule of this new flight, it connects to South East Asia and Korea itself best, but (ICN->BOS leg) misconnect with China and Japan. Based on this it appears that CX will be the most impacted, followed by EK, QR, JL, HU having a smaller impact. It will be interesting to see what this flight does to the LF of these carriers into 2019 if any.


There are also many Singaporean and Malaysian international students that fly on EK/QR/JL/CX to Boston to get to Harvard/MIT/BC. Now they can also connect via ICN.


Don't discount Thailand and Indonesia too!

BU's top 10 countries sending international students for 2017
China 4705
India 998
South Korea 440
Canada 334
Taiwan, R.O.C. 312
Saudi Arabia 229
Turkey 150
Japan 135
Thailand 125
Indonesia 123

https://www.bu.edu/isso/about/statistics/fall-2017/

Harvard has more students from Singapore and Malaysia than Indonesia/Thailand and more European students as a percentage.
http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

MIT has a lot of students from Singapore compared to rest of Southeast Asia.
https://iso.mit.edu/about/country_17-18.shtml

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also providing a fair amount of students at all of these schools.


International students, most of whom rely on sites like kayak and studentuniverse to sniff out the absolute cheapest flight home (down to the last $), are hardly a market that is going to be the rationale for starting LH and ULH flights. Speaking as an ex-international student at one of the above schools myself until recently...
 
kavok
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:58 pm

Great add. And it balances the adds between the two airlines. DL adds MSP-ICN, and that is balanced out by KE adding BOS-ICN.

I also don’t understand the resentment towards the DTW crowd in this thread. Yes, there was one notable poster who claimed DTW would get x2 on KE before BOS, but the vast majority of DTW posters saw the BOS addition as a natural fit and are happy for the addition. KE metal didn’t make sense from DTW anyway (a second DTW-ICN flight, if it happens, would likely be on DL metal). As mentioned, the pax on the BOS-ICN flight are mostly coming from *A/OW anyway, so again, I don’t understand it.

Further, BOS-ICN is a natural addition for the 787, which makes perfect sense that KE would operate it. I wonder, going forward, what the next adds (if any) will be for the KE/DL JV. With the natural additions in MSP and BOS now filled, will DL/KE attempt SLC and focus city flying TPAC, beef up flights from other hubs, or keep the new status quo?
 
airbazar
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:29 pm

globetrotter94 wrote:
International students, most of whom rely on sites like kayak and studentuniverse to sniff out the absolute cheapest flight home (down to the last $), are hardly a market that is going to be the rationale for starting LH and ULH flights. Speaking as an ex-international student at one of the above schools myself until recently...

That's true for "normal" folks like you and I :) But the part you're missing here is that the student population mirrors the rest of the population. As such you have 90% who can be described that way and 10% who aren't. There are a lot of wealthy students in Boston. The lineup of luxury cars along Comm Ave. on any given day is crazy. But this is hardly a Boston trend. The difference is Boston has a lot more than these "rural America" university towns.
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201606 ... al-america
In addition, a lot of these foreign students have x number of guaranteed airline tickets to travel home as part of their scholarships, regardless of the price. So just because they are buying the ticket on Kayak it doesn't mean the prices have to be rock bottom.
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:53 pm

TW870 wrote:
Great add by KE with the perfect aircraft to start this route.

My question, though, is what comes next for the JV given the pilot negotiations in 2019. BOS was a given, but I wondered if they would add it on DL metal to set the stage for better negotiations. Guess not. Given the massive amount of KE metal across the Pacific, we should expect either some new adds from DL, or rough negotiations. My hunch is both JFK and LAX on DL metal (supplementing or replacing KE sections), and possibly SAN or even PDX on DL metal. Issue of course will be aircraft availability - but with all of the A332 flying in DTW that doesn't require that airplane's range, they can back fill it with the 7ER fleet and then have the 332 do some of the new flying.

Oh, and that was not a jab at DTW. Just a basic analysis of A330-200 scheduling!


Were I to guess, I'd unscientifically pin the next DL-metal ICN flight as either the much talked about second DTW frequency or potentially taking over KE's SEA frequency. The latter seems like one of the more palatable compromises on the KE side if DL pilots really push for some degree of metal parity compared to the really big Korean point-of-sale markets like LAX, JFK, ATL, etc.

Plus, it would probably drive a lot of the AS codeshare traffic that had been using KE over to DL. That wouldn't be a decisive factor either way but it helps.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:56 pm

airbazar wrote:
globetrotter94 wrote:
International students, most of whom rely on sites like kayak and studentuniverse to sniff out the absolute cheapest flight home (down to the last $), are hardly a market that is going to be the rationale for starting LH and ULH flights. Speaking as an ex-international student at one of the above schools myself until recently...

That's true for "normal" folks like you and I :) But the part you're missing here is that the student population mirrors the rest of the population. As such you have 90% who can be described that way and 10% who aren't. There are a lot of wealthy students in Boston. The lineup of luxury cars along Comm Ave. on any given day is crazy. But this is hardly a Boston trend. The difference is Boston has a lot more than these "rural America" university towns.
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201606 ... al-america
In addition, a lot of these foreign students have x number of guaranteed airline tickets to travel home as part of their scholarships, regardless of the price. So just because they are buying the ticket on Kayak it doesn't mean the prices have to be rock bottom.


Demand is also very high the weeks they want to travel End of May, End of December, mid to late August. JL/CX routinely sell out those weeks.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:13 pm

SESGDL wrote:
spinotter wrote:
reasonable wrote:

rangercarp's question isn't unreasonable. Surely this will impact connecting traffic to flights from DTW, MSP, and ATL to ICN, but this is more about meeting surging market growth to primary and secondary cities throughout Asia from routes serviced through multiple hubs, just like AMS and CDG.

Why would it be "rather good" to see connecting traffic taken away from one route versus another unless you're a little child with a crippling insecurity who uses these things as small ball self-worth boosts.

I'm sure the people at Delta would laugh dismissively at 777Mech's pathetic comment.


What is it about those DTW fanboys and fangirls and the anti-DTWers that makes discussions of DTW come up in the unlikeliest threads? It's creepy and I agree 100% about the little child with crippling insecurities. It gets very boring and tiresome.


Except that 777Mech's comments made perfect sense when he clarified that it will push more connections through ICN which is an outstanding facility. How again is that childish? Additional connections through ICN (and soon MSP) make for more comprehensive coverage for passengers across the country, how is that a bad thing?

Jeremy


You misunderstand my comment. I am not a DTW fanboy and I have wondered ever since the JV between DL/NW, AF, and KL was established why Delta was not establishing a similar JV with KE. To compete with the other two alliances over the Pacific it is imperative that DL and KE cooperate as they are now doing, with MSP-ICN and BOS-ICN as the first routes to be added.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:57 am

Its weird no one is talking about the surprisingly large Korean population in Boston. Have none of you seen Allston? It's half college students, half Koreans.
 
Capn
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:41 pm

Unless I missed it, I find it odd that DL has not mentioned this new service at all,
I would think it is part of the J.V..
 
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tlecam
Posts: 1540
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:58 pm

I don't know if it's loaded in the system yet. They loaded the MSP-ICN flights and announced that.
 
bridge29
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:45 pm

Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:11 pm

globetrotter94 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
YYZflyboy wrote:

There are also many Singaporean and Malaysian international students that fly on EK/QR/JL/CX to Boston to get to Harvard/MIT/BC. Now they can also connect via ICN.


Don't discount Thailand and Indonesia too!

BU's top 10 countries sending international students for 2017
China 4705
India 998
South Korea 440
Canada 334
Taiwan, R.O.C. 312
Saudi Arabia 229
Turkey 150
Japan 135
Thailand 125
Indonesia 123

https://www.bu.edu/isso/about/statistics/fall-2017/

Harvard has more students from Singapore and Malaysia than Indonesia/Thailand and more European students as a percentage.
http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

MIT has a lot of students from Singapore compared to rest of Southeast Asia.
https://iso.mit.edu/about/country_17-18.shtml

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also providing a fair amount of students at all of these schools.


International students, most of whom rely on sites like kayak and studentuniverse to sniff out the absolute cheapest flight home (down to the last $), are hardly a market that is going to be the rationale for starting LH and ULH flights. Speaking as an ex-international student at one of the above schools myself until recently...


I don't think that's always the case. It probably depends on the school, but I know plenty of international Penn students who have family that drop 1-2k easily on international flights for them and price isn't a factor. Now, if you are talking about the students themselves purchasing the flights with their own money and not daddy's credit card, that's another story.
 
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globetrotter94
Posts: 427
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:15 am

bridge29 wrote:
globetrotter94 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

Don't discount Thailand and Indonesia too!

BU's top 10 countries sending international students for 2017
China 4705
India 998
South Korea 440
Canada 334
Taiwan, R.O.C. 312
Saudi Arabia 229
Turkey 150
Japan 135
Thailand 125
Indonesia 123

https://www.bu.edu/isso/about/statistics/fall-2017/

Harvard has more students from Singapore and Malaysia than Indonesia/Thailand and more European students as a percentage.
http://www.hio.harvard.edu/statistics

MIT has a lot of students from Singapore compared to rest of Southeast Asia.
https://iso.mit.edu/about/country_17-18.shtml

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are also providing a fair amount of students at all of these schools.


International students, most of whom rely on sites like kayak and studentuniverse to sniff out the absolute cheapest flight home (down to the last $), are hardly a market that is going to be the rationale for starting LH and ULH flights. Speaking as an ex-international student at one of the above schools myself until recently...


I don't think that's always the case. It probably depends on the school, but I know plenty of international Penn students who have family that drop 1-2k easily on international flights for them and price isn't a factor. Now, if you are talking about the students themselves purchasing the flights with their own money and not daddy's credit card, that's another story.


Most international students in the schools mentioned above are actually graduate students who are funded by research/teaching assistantships and such (this was my case as well), and while I was still able to drop 1-2k on international flights to Asia a couple times per year, I always went for whichever Star Alliance carrier offered the cheapest fare out of either BOS or JFK/EWR. All I meant by my point was that the majority of the international student market is still quite price-sensitive--more than I felt previous posts were making out, anyway.
 
Pepper456
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:06 pm

Future skyteam hub?
 
KLDC10
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Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:37 pm

Pepper456 wrote:
Future skyteam hub?


Delta has already been expanding in Boston for some time, and while there is some debate over whether the station can truly be called a "hub" (although I believe Delta themselves have used this term in the past), it is certainly a significant focus city and the airline sees a lot of potential there. In terms of other Skyteam airlines; Air France, Aeromexico and Alitalia already operate into BOS, now Korean Air and KLM have announced that they will be starting flights. That's a nice group of Skyteam airlines right there.

The major problem with Boston, and I use the airport often, is that the rate of growth has been so great that the entire experience is just unpleasant. Try getting through the central security checkpoint in Terminal E when the afternoon/evening bank of heavies is going out to Europe, and then try finding someplace to sit on the other side. Flying International out of BOS is actually a lot more pleasant on Delta, since their departures are scheduled from Terminal A. Moving Skyteam departures to Terminal A alongside Delta could be a good move for the future to ease congestion and provide a more pleasant passenger experience. Even better would be investing in a customs facility in Terminal A to allow arrivals there too.

However, right now, all arrivals have to come in through Terminal E, because that's where the only customs facility is (unless of course you fly in from Ireland, enjoy the pre-clearance there and arrive as a "domestic" flight). There has been a bit of remodelling in recent years, with a more streamlined process involving self-service kiosks for those with US Passports, Green Cards and ESTAs, but getting through is still a time consuming process. Expanded facilities would be good.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:25 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Pepper456 wrote:
Future skyteam hub?


Delta has already been expanding in Boston for some time, and while there is some debate over whether the station can truly be called a "hub" (although I believe Delta themselves have used this term in the past), it is certainly a significant focus city and the airline sees a lot of potential there. In terms of other Skyteam airlines; Air France, Aeromexico and Alitalia already operate into BOS, now Korean Air and KLM have announced that they will be starting flights. That's a nice group of Skyteam airlines right there.

The major problem with Boston, and I use the airport often, is that the rate of growth has been so great that the entire experience is just unpleasant. Try getting through the central security checkpoint in Terminal E when the afternoon/evening bank of heavies is going out to Europe, and then try finding someplace to sit on the other side. Flying International out of BOS is actually a lot more pleasant on Delta, since their departures are scheduled from Terminal A. Moving Skyteam departures to Terminal A alongside Delta could be a good move for the future to ease congestion and provide a more pleasant passenger experience. Even better would be investing in a customs facility in Terminal A to allow arrivals there too.

However, right now, all arrivals have to come in through Terminal E, because that's where the only customs facility is (unless of course you fly in from Ireland, enjoy the pre-clearance there and arrive as a "domestic" flight). There has been a bit of remodelling in recent years, with a more streamlined process involving self-service kiosks for those with US Passports, Green Cards and ESTAs, but getting through is still a time consuming process. Expanded facilities would be good.


Expanded Facilities are coming, although it's as much about CBP staffing as it is the number of kiosks etc. as Phase 1 and Phase 2 of the E expansion are set to begin, although Phase 2 won't be built until around 2025, Phase 1 is due to start next year and finish by 2021 or so (Massport are known for getting their projects done on time, once they start)

This will give you some idea of what they are planning.

https://www.massport.com/capitalprogram ... ackage.pdf


In actual fact CBP is getting better with the speed, YTD average wait times are down to 16 minutes and the max wait was 167 minutes. Worst average waits around 1/2 an hour in the 2-3pm time slot. The data below is information i have compiled through June 18 for Month, Quarter and Year to date. based on source information from awt.cbp.gov for Terminal E.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... Q?ogsrc=32
 
RobertS975
Posts: 1010
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:17 am

Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:28 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Pepper456 wrote:
Future skyteam hub?


Delta has already been expanding in Boston for some time, and while there is some debate over whether the station can truly be called a "hub" (although I believe Delta themselves have used this term in the past), it is certainly a significant focus city and the airline sees a lot of potential there. In terms of other Skyteam airlines; Air France, Aeromexico and Alitalia already operate into BOS, now Korean Air and KLM have announced that they will be starting flights. That's a nice group of Skyteam airlines right there.

The major problem with Boston, and I use the airport often, is that the rate of growth has been so great that the entire experience is just unpleasant. Try getting through the central security checkpoint in Terminal E when the afternoon/evening bank of heavies is going out to Europe, and then try finding someplace to sit on the other side. Flying International out of BOS is actually a lot more pleasant on Delta, since their departures are scheduled from Terminal A. Moving Skyteam departures to Terminal A alongside Delta could be a good move for the future to ease congestion and provide a more pleasant passenger experience. Even better would be investing in a customs facility in Terminal A to allow arrivals there too.

However, right now, all arrivals have to come in through Terminal E, because that's where the only customs facility is (unless of course you fly in from Ireland, enjoy the pre-clearance there and arrive as a "domestic" flight). There has been a bit of remodelling in recent years, with a more streamlined process involving self-service kiosks for those with US Passports, Green Cards and ESTAs, but getting through is still a time consuming process. Expanded facilities would be good.



You forgot Air Europa to MAD, although I don't believe that DL codeshares on that flight. The rest of the ST carriers are all in JV with DL, at least for now (AZ). Skyteam means nothing if it isn't a JV partner or a codeshare partner. And of course, VS is a JV partner with DL although not a Skyteam member.
 
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NickolayAv
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 pm

Re: Korean Air announces Boston

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:16 am

RobertS975 wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
Pepper456 wrote:
Future skyteam hub?


Delta has already been expanding in Boston for some time, and while there is some debate over whether the station can truly be called a "hub" (although I believe Delta themselves have used this term in the past), it is certainly a significant focus city and the airline sees a lot of potential there. In terms of other Skyteam airlines; Air France, Aeromexico and Alitalia already operate into BOS, now Korean Air and KLM have announced that they will be starting flights. That's a nice group of Skyteam airlines right there.

The major problem with Boston, and I use the airport often, is that the rate of growth has been so great that the entire experience is just unpleasant. Try getting through the central security checkpoint in Terminal E when the afternoon/evening bank of heavies is going out to Europe, and then try finding someplace to sit on the other side. Flying International out of BOS is actually a lot more pleasant on Delta, since their departures are scheduled from Terminal A. Moving Skyteam departures to Terminal A alongside Delta could be a good move for the future to ease congestion and provide a more pleasant passenger experience. Even better would be investing in a customs facility in Terminal A to allow arrivals there too.

However, right now, all arrivals have to come in through Terminal E, because that's where the only customs facility is (unless of course you fly in from Ireland, enjoy the pre-clearance there and arrive as a "domestic" flight). There has been a bit of remodelling in recent years, with a more streamlined process involving self-service kiosks for those with US Passports, Green Cards and ESTAs, but getting through is still a time consuming process. Expanded facilities would be good.



You forgot Air Europa to MAD, although I don't believe that DL codeshares on that flight. The rest of the ST carriers are all in JV with DL, at least for now (AZ). Skyteam means nothing if it isn't a JV partner or a codeshare partner. And of course, VS is a JV partner with DL although not a Skyteam member.

Air Europa unfortunately didn't return to BOS this year, they terminated the route.

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