Just announced that F9 will expand to 6 new cities from RSW in November.

Added: ALB, LAS, PHX, PWM, SLC, and SYR.

Nothing on Frontier's Facebook page yet but it was on RSW's Facebook page first and no official start date in November.

Any info? Any other cities being added on F9 from ALB and SYR?

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

You aren't kidding. If PWM can't sustain year round nonstop to MCO on WN, I don't see PWM-RSW working for sure, like a lot of other F9 routes they announce and then cancel 3 months later.

Looks like ALB only got RSW. So it'll be just seasonal DEN, RSW and MCO from ALB all together.

SCHATC422 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

You aren't kidding. If PWM can't sustain year round nonstop to MCO on WN, I don't see PWM-RSW working for sure, like a lot of other F9 routes they announce and then cancel 3 months later.

Looks like ALB only got RSW. So it'll be just seasonal DEN, RSW and MCO from ALB all together.

Well, 7Q flies PWM-MLB/SRQ/VRB year round....FOR NOW...never know with them...also, they're not cheap.

Maybe PWM is not so far fetched. A ton of people in New England spend time or have Winter places in that part of FL. Frontier may be able to pull some back up that have been using BOS and pluck some more off the WN connecting flights from PWM and MHT. They have come up with odder flights than this! After the 1st of May, the traffic starts to collapse.

SCHATC422 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

You aren't kidding. If PWM can't sustain year round nonstop to MCO on WN, I don't see PWM-RSW working for sure, like a lot of other F9 routes they announce and then cancel 3 months later.

Looks like ALB only got RSW. So it'll be just seasonal DEN, RSW and MCO from ALB all together.

Frontier is the least stable airline out there, in terms of route sustainability. It seems that they throw darts at a board, give it a try and a few months later are gone in a puff of smoke, ready to move on to the next expermental route. FYI, looks like they're coming back to Tucson for the third or fourth time.

I’m sure the PWM add is in response to their other PWM added routes that apparently have been selling like hot cakes (DEN and MCO at least, I don’t know about RDU).

Whether it sticks is another story, but F9 seems to be the master of turning 50 PDEW markets into sustainable ones (if they succeed at first)

lat41 wrote:

Maybe PWM is not so far fetched. A ton of people in New England spend time or have Winter places in that part of FL. Frontier may be able to pull some back up that have been using BOS and pluck some more off the WN connecting flights from PWM and MHT. They have come up with odder flights than this! After the 1st of May, the traffic starts to collapse.

November is a bit early, though. There will be a couple of spikes in traffic for Thanksgiving and Christmas/New Year's, and then the flights will be EMPTY until winter school vacation week in late February. Then traffic will be decent while the Red Sox have spring training in Fort Myers and through spring school vacation in mid-April. After that traffic falls off the cliff.

Not sure I see the point of connecting SLC, LAS, or PHX to RSW, though.

joeblow10 wrote:

I’m sure the PWM add is in response to their other PWM added routes that apparently have been selling like hot cakes (DEN and MCO at least, I don’t know about RDU).

Whether it sticks is another story, but F9 seems to be the master of turning 50 PDEW markets into sustainable ones (if they succeed at first)

DEN has been been extremely popular, RDU has been mixed and MCO seems to be selling well but it hasn't started yet. PWM-MCO has been extended 4x weekly through February, and Florida points are the single most popular requested route from PWM. Not really a stretch at all.

727LOVER wrote:

SCHATC422 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

You aren't kidding. If PWM can't sustain year round nonstop to MCO on WN, I don't see PWM-RSW working for sure, like a lot of other F9 routes they announce and then cancel 3 months later.

Looks like ALB only got RSW. So it'll be just seasonal DEN, RSW and MCO from ALB all together.

Well, 7Q flies PWM-MLB/SRQ/VRB year round....FOR NOW...never know with them...also, they're not cheap.

F9 is year round on PWM-MCO. Just recently launched, of course, so the long-term prospects of the route are kind of up in the air (due to F9's track record of quickly entering and exiting markets) but as of now they have it slated to run through the rest of the summer, the fall and the winter (at least as far as mid-February, which is as far out as F9's schedule goes at the moment).

lat41 wrote:

Maybe PWM is not so far fetched. A ton of people in New England spend time or have Winter places in that part of FL.

Anybody want to compare PWM-RSW PDEWs to PWM-MCO? I doubt it's even a 1/4.

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

Why do you assume that this will be year round? The PVD-RSW route launched last Fall was discontinued the day after Easter in April.

RobertS975 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

Why do you assume that this will be year round? The PVD-RSW route launched last Fall was discontinued the day after Easter in April.

I am assuming that PVD-RSW is returning this Fall... anyone know when that starts up?

lat41 wrote:

Maybe PWM is not so far fetched. A ton of people in New England spend time or have Winter places in that part of FL. Frontier may be able to pull some back up that have been using BOS and pluck some more off the WN connecting flights from PWM and MHT. They have come up with odder flights than this! After the 1st of May, the traffic starts to collapse.

It’s really not. When I worked for JB raw we had a lot of bags tagged to pwm via jfk. It was one of the most popular connecting cities along with Rochester.

joeblow10 wrote:

I’m sure the PWM add is in response to their other PWM added routes that apparently have been selling like hot cakes (DEN and MCO at least, I don’t know about RDU).

Whether it sticks is another story, but F9 seems to be the master of turning 50 PDEW markets into sustainable ones (if they succeed at first)

Under the current F9 management direction, I would be hesitant to call any Frontier routes "year round". They all should be labeled seasonal as that is F9's way of culling flights that do not meet their revenue requirements. If initial sales do not meet their quota, the route will be cancelled before it starts. There is no lapse time for a route to develop.

Hopefully, these new routes from RDU to the northeast cities will be successful. Come 2019 look for Frontier to make some more big route splash announcements as their dozen and a half new aircraft come on line.

Frontier 14

OMA-RSW returns as well and is now loaded. 2x weekly Wed and Sat.

Wow!!! Looks like my longtime dream of nonstop LAX-RSW is one step closer to reality. I sure hope these new Western routes do well...lots of young adults raised in the Midwest and East but now living in the West have parents and grandparents that retired to Southwest Florida.

Among other surprises within this announcement, I'm surprised that SLC-RSW came before SLC-MCO, and that they're launching PHX-RSW after dropping PHX-MCO. I don't know much about either market, but it seems MCO would be a bigger market than RSW. The fact that they would face competition from multiple airlines on both routes (DL and B6 on SLC-MCO and AA and WN on PHX-MCO) may play a role in these decisions though

I just looked on Frontier's website and it shows for SYR-RSW 3x a week on 247 starting 11/15

KISP-KRSW also resumes with a A321

joeljack wrote:

OMA-RSW returns as well and is now loaded. 2x weekly Wed and Sat.

As does GRR-RSW 4x per week Mon/ Wed/ Fri/ Sat

RobertS975 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

Why do you assume that this will be year round? The PVD-RSW route launched last Fall was discontinued the day after Easter in April.

And just before the April Spring vacation peak!

PVD-RSW 2x has been loaded in for Nov onward for week now, my guess is more stuff will trickle in.

The current F9 is in the business of trying to fly routes where people want to fly - and are currently priced out. DEN-TUS in the winter is a solid market. Hell even the 1994-95 version of F9 got good loads Dec-Mar. It was the rest of the year that were awful.

You check the "low fare" airline Southwest on DEN-TUS? I'd expect an upgrade with what they're charging on many days.

Maybe F9 comes in for 3 months and leaves. Yeah it's frustrating to the AvGeeks but it's what they do. And it ain't gonna change...

azstar wrote:

SCHATC422 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

You aren't kidding. If PWM can't sustain year round nonstop to MCO on WN, I don't see PWM-RSW working for sure, like a lot of other F9 routes they announce and then cancel 3 months later.

Looks like ALB only got RSW. So it'll be just seasonal DEN, RSW and MCO from ALB all together.

Frontier is the least stable airline out there, in terms of route sustainability. It seems that they throw darts at a board, give it a try and a few months later are gone in a puff of smoke, ready to move on to the next expermental route. FYI, looks like they're coming back to Tucson for the third or fourth time.

Look for a similarly sized announcement in TPA in a few hours as RSW today, along with announcement of reopening FLL.

Indeed, TPA-SYR/-PWM are both bookable at 3/weekly.

727LOVER wrote:

SCHATC422 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

You aren't kidding. If PWM can't sustain year round nonstop to MCO on WN, I don't see PWM-RSW working for sure, like a lot of other F9 routes they announce and then cancel 3 months later.

Looks like ALB only got RSW. So it'll be just seasonal DEN, RSW and MCO from ALB all together.

Well, 7Q flies PWM-MLB/SRQ/VRB year round....FOR NOW...never know with them...also, they're not cheap.

Frontier starts MCO-PWM this week, too. Tomorrow, I think?

SCHATC422 wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

PWM-RSW non-stop, you say? Wow, that sounds like a thin market. PWM doesn't even sustain year-round non-stop to Orlando.

You aren't kidding. If PWM can't sustain year round nonstop to MCO on WN, I don't see PWM-RSW working for sure, like a lot of other F9 routes they announce and then cancel 3 months later.

Looks like ALB only got RSW. So it'll be just seasonal DEN, RSW and MCO from ALB all together.

To be fair, no other Florida routes have ever been tried year round from PWM, with the exception of MCO (with B6) about eight years ago and, Elite's flights, which have been popular. Florida destinations are the most popular destinations out of PWM after NYC and Washington airports.

There are many people in Maine that split time between here and Florida, as well as all the vacationers. Those coming north in summer, and those going south during winter.

It will be interesting to see how another Florida from route other than MCO will pan out? Sure, it's nice for families to have a quick option to get to Disenyworld, but there's quite a few people up here that need to go to other places in Flroda besides than MCO. Those traverlers have never had the chance to go non-stop.

GRR-PHX begins November 16 - 2x / week
GRR-TPA begins November 15 - 3x / week

https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county ... 1353919181

Also TPA to CLT, GSP, ORF, PWM, and SYR
and PHX to MSN, RSW, ORF, and RDU

An active dart board at F9 HQ this week.

These seem like better-aimed darts than most. I can see a fair amount of demand to escape the Western Michigan winter.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was another announcement tomorrow

It's so hard to stay on top of what F9's route network looks like... A constantly shifting picture.

I've now seen a few different small announcements, but has there been a press release that includes all of the recently added routes? I can't seem to find one.

What I've seen so far:

TPA-CLT
TPA-GRR
TPA-GSP
TPA-ORF
TPA-PWM
TPA-SYR

PHX-GRR
PHX-MSN
PHX-ORF
PHX-RSW

DEN-TUS

RSW-ALB
RSW-LAS
RSW-PHX
RSW-PWN
RSW-SLC
RSW-SYR

It's so hard to stay on top of what F9's route network looks like... A constantly shifting picture.

Tucson Denver is back. I think this is third or fourth re-entry into this market.

azstar wrote:

It's so hard to stay on top of what F9's route network looks like... A constantly shifting picture.

Tucson Denver is back. I think this is third or fourth re-entry into this market.

The DEN-TUS market will be most likely just for the winter months and will be a tough sell against WN.

Frontier 14

azstar wrote:

It's so hard to stay on top of what F9's route network looks like... A constantly shifting picture.

I have this image of their route planning group trying to staple jello to the wall while eating a soup sandwich.

azstar wrote:

It's so hard to stay on top of what F9's route network looks like... A constantly shifting picture.

Tucson Denver is back. I think this is third or fourth re-entry into this market.

This is their first attempt in the market as a ULCC though. They last served Tucson in 2012. They have recently reentered a lot of markets out of DEN that they pulled out of during the transition to ULCC in 2013 (GEG, SJC, FAT, ABQ, JAC are a few I know of off the top of my head) and they all seem to be doing at least somewhat well (based mostly on my own uneducated observations, I don't have any numbers to back that claim up). Hopefully TUS does at least somewhat well too.

Between SY starting seasonal service to MSP and now F9 back to DEN seasonally, it is nice to see some ULCC activity again at TUS. It would be nice to get NK and G4 here as well.

TUSDawg23 wrote:

Between SY starting seasonal service to MSP and now F9 back to DEN seasonally, it is nice to see some ULCC activity again at TUS. It would be nice to get NK and G4 here as well.

I have always been surprised that G4 doesn’t have at least TUS-LAS, but at least SouthWest does it 4X per day. Believe me, a lot of airports who have only G4 service to LAS would gladly trade it for only SouthWest...

PHX-RSW? AA and WN don’t even fly this, do they?

cledaybuck wrote:

PHX-RSW? AA and WN don’t even fly this, do they?

Like has been said, it is a dart board for F9. Who knows, it may make $$$$$ where no one would expect...........

Frontier 14

flyfresno wrote:

I have always been surprised that G4 doesn’t have at least TUS-LAS, but at least SouthWest does it 4X per day. Believe me, a lot of airports who have only G4 service to LAS would gladly trade it for only SouthWest...

I think it's very hard for ULCCs to compete against WN in short-haul markets. They have to price quite a bit below WN due to WN's usual advantage of schedule and included checked/carry-on bags, but the base fare are already fairly low; i.e. advance purchase on WN for TUS-LAS is around $75 each way. They're probably not going to make money charging $25 each way, and they'd have to go even lower if they ended up in a fare war with WN.

ScottB wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

I have always been surprised that G4 doesn’t have at least TUS-LAS, but at least SouthWest does it 4X per day. Believe me, a lot of airports who have only G4 service to LAS would gladly trade it for only SouthWest...

I think it's very hard for ULCCs to compete against WN in short-haul markets. They have to price quite a bit below WN due to WN's usual advantage of schedule and included checked/carry-on bags, but the base fare are already fairly low; i.e. advance purchase on WN for TUS-LAS is around $75 each way. They're probably not going to make money charging $25 each way, and they'd have to go even lower if they ended up in a fare war with WN.

This is a good point. Are there any routes out of LAS that G4 directly competes with WN on?

flyfresno wrote:

ScottB wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

I have always been surprised that G4 doesn’t have at least TUS-LAS, but at least SouthWest does it 4X per day. Believe me, a lot of airports who have only G4 service to LAS would gladly trade it for only SouthWest...

I think it's very hard for ULCCs to compete against WN in short-haul markets. They have to price quite a bit below WN due to WN's usual advantage of schedule and included checked/carry-on bags, but the base fare are already fairly low; i.e. advance purchase on WN for TUS-LAS is around $75 each way. They're probably not going to make money charging $25 each way, and they'd have to go even lower if they ended up in a fare war with WN.

This is a good point. Are there any routes out of LAS that G4 directly competes with WN on?

G4 and WN both operate LAS-OKC.

WN and G4 both do LAS-BOI as well.

axiom wrote:

What I've seen so far:

TPA-CLT
TPA-GRR
TPA-GSP
TPA-ORF
TPA-PWM
TPA-SYR

PHX-GRR
PHX-MSN
PHX-ORF
PHX-RSW
PHX-RDU was left off your list

DEN-TUS

RSW-ALB
RSW-LAS
RSW-PHX
RSW-PWN
RSW-SLC
RSW-SYR

Looks like PHX-RDU is bookable starting 11/15 and nonstop is 3x a week. Daily with connections thru multiple locations. Interesting since not even AA flies it, but for $59, wow.

LovePrunesAnet wrote:

axiom wrote:

What I've seen so far:

TPA-CLT
TPA-GRR
TPA-GSP
TPA-ORF
TPA-PWM
TPA-SYR

PHX-GRR
PHX-MSN
PHX-ORF
PHX-RSW
PHX-RDU was left off your list

DEN-TUS

RSW-ALB
RSW-LAS
RSW-PHX
RSW-PWN
RSW-SLC
RSW-SYR

Looks like PHX-RDU is bookable starting 11/15 and nonstop is 3x a week. Daily with connections thru multiple locations. Interesting since not even AA flies it, but for $59, wow.

PHX-RDU was announced in early June

Awesome! Another route from F9 out of CLT! Dare I say the word fantastic about it, some users on here find that some of us shouldn’t be excited about the little things regarding CLT service or any little addition to your home airport.

Anyhow! I think this route will do well!

Good day!

So is it confirmed that Frontier is opening back up KFLL?