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hisham
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:12 pm

The truth can be hard to swallow.

ME720, don’t ask about proof. If you don’t see it already, no proof in a forum will convince you.
 
BA
Posts: 10523
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:04 am

Getting back to the topic, I don't think the lack of direct flights between the U.S. and Beirut is a big deal to be honest, especially since most of the traffic is VFR.

It's quite easy to get to Beirut from the U.S. with only one connection and there are many options to choose from.

Even if Beirut had flights to say JFK and DTW, the vast majority of Lebanese in the U.S. would still need to make at least one connection because they're so spread out.

Speaking of which, I haven't been back since 2009...
 
KLAM
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:31 am

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:06 am

mozart wrote:
Slightly off-topic, but a very telling anecdote about how people in LEB live in La-La-Land.

In the summer of 2014 I was sitting at a lunch with family and friends at someone's nice house in the mountains North of Beirut. Many expats/diaspora, and all were raving how fantastic the country was, how shitty their lives were in New York, Paris, Geneva, and that they'd wish their kids would grow up in Lebanon, etc. Several told me that Lebanon was still the "Switzerland of the ME" (I am half Swiss) and were surprised when I responded that Lebanon is the anti-thesis of Switzerland (dirty, dysfunctional, zero civic sense of the population, corrupt, failed state, failed infrastructure). Still, everybody was raving about the place.

At that same time I received frequent news flashes on my phone about Islamic State guerilla forces that jointly with Al Qaeda fighters had overran a Lebanese village in the Bekaa, Arzal, killed 20 soldiers, and prompted the population to flee. That was about 60 kilometers "great circle" from where we were. Nobody cared, but went on about how fantastic this place is.

The ability of the Lebanese to turn a blind eye on any negative aspects about their country is unparalleled. You drive with them through the country side and they get all excited "look how beautiful this is", and when you say "but there are heaps of rubbish all along the road" - "Ah, didn't even see that...". Or somebody says "We'll see a friend, he lives in a great place, nice house". You get there, and realize that the "nice house" is in fact merely the least rotten building, standing in the middle of what in Europe or North America would be a seedy part of town or even a slum. They just don't see it.


Funny that you mention the anti-thesis of Lebanon. As an anecdote, I can tell that during my last visit in Lebanon, I met a Swiss woman who was throwing her garbage out on the street, and a couple of German old ladies cutting the line at the airport. I have also met a number of Lebanese who behave like the most civilized people whenever they are in Montreal or in Paris, but u-turn in the middle of the highway in Lebanon. I guess human beings are human beings regardless of their origin. It is law enforcement that makes people follow rules, and with some luck, makes them more aware of why they should follow them without enforcement. Poor Lebanon, everyone there dreams of a foreign passport to leave, and jump at every opportunity to harshly criticize it. Yes it is bad, yes it has a ton of problems, but as long as the good people keep turning their backs to the country, it is not going anywhere. It is funny how on a.net you can spot certain people who obsessively bash specific threads and angrily roll their eyes repeating themselves over and over... If you guys are so tired of these topics, do not read them... If you must insist, then open a thread on the non-av forum about "how horrible Lebanon is and how you cannot ski and go to the beach on the same day." (Or how it is not the Paris or the Switzerland of the Middle East)

Now back to topic... Whether these flights are going to happen or not, I guess the answer is unfortunately not in the next couple of years. If it did, the first transatlantic to BEY in many years would be to YUL and most likely operated by AC on a 333 (It does have the legs, since AC operates it to TLV during the summer). To the states, I suppose it would be JFK and it sounds to me like it would be operated by ME (I do not know, though). The reasons why these flights may not take off is unknown to most of us. While it is likely due to BEY's proximity to Hezbollah's stronghold, the airport itself is not owned by Hezbollah. I do have to agree, however, that while there are many security checks, they do seem to be a bit lax. However, if both parties really wanted a transatlantic flight, this situation could be improved like it was done in MEX some years ago.
 
ME720
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:02 am

hisham wrote:
ME720, you are in denial. Good luck!


How so? The airport operates with over 50 airlines destinations on 3 continents almost 9 million pax per year. You have something to say concerning lack of security at BEY or elsewhere document please. Otherwise just fat you’re Chewing. Go chew elsewhere.
 
hisham
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:15 am

Tough guy. Also clueless. Like I said, if you don’t see it, nothing I say will change your mind. Waste of my time and off-topic.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5926
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:10 am

Off-topic but any idea on how MEA's new service to MAD is working? I am curious about that route, IMO it has some potential to develop to maybe a daily flight when working in collaboration with Air Europa to the Americas.

mozart wrote:
The ability of the Lebanese to turn a blind eye on any negative aspects about their country is unparalleled. You drive with them through the country side and they get all excited "look how beautiful this is", and when you say "but there are heaps of rubbish all along the road" - "Ah, didn't even see that...". Or somebody says "We'll see a friend, he lives in a great place, nice house". You get there, and realize that the "nice house" is in fact merely the least rotten building, standing in the middle of what in Europe or North America would be a seedy part of town or even a slum. They just don't see it.


As a foreigner I have noticed that; it is just incredible. Lebanese will take you straight away from the airport (of course forget about the army outside and those 3rd world tunnels and slums on your way to the city) direct to the area around Nejmeh Square, Martyrs' Square and the seafront to repeat you 100 times that Beirut is like Barcelona or Paris :D and not like "those" other countries in the ME (read UAE, KSA, Egypt...). Even if of course countries like Saudi or the Emirates today have way better quality of life for most of their citizens (otherwise there would not be hundreds of thousands of Lebanese nationals living in those very same countries they criticise!).
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5926
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:16 am

KLAM wrote:
Funny that you mention the anti-thesis of Lebanon. As an anecdote, I can tell that during my last visit in Lebanon, I met a Swiss woman who was throwing her garbage out on the street, and a couple of German old ladies cutting the line at the airport. I have also met a number of Lebanese who behave like the most civilized people whenever they are in Montreal or in Paris, but u-turn in the middle of the highway in Lebanon. I guess human beings are human beings regardless of their origin. It is law enforcement that makes people follow rules, and with some luck, makes them more aware of why they should follow them without enforcement.


It is called "Broken Windows Theory"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
 
ME720
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:35 pm

hisham wrote:
Tough guy. Also clueless. Like I said, if you don’t see it, nothing I say will change your mind. Waste of my time and off-topic.


At the end if the day your word or mine is actually worthless. Neither of us is the CEO or officer of operations of a major airliners. If BEY is safe enough
For BA, AF, LH to park their aircraft the whole night .. needless to point out tens of other airliners landing after midnight and departing and hour or two later.. Please price to them that the airport is run by a vic”the most violent terrorist organisation?”.. maybe they would heed your advice and cease service to BEY immediately. Again US - Leb flights is a political issue.. if there is will on both sides US bound flights could leave with beafed up security or even with a stop somewhere in Europe on the outbound to the US and direct in the way back.. a. No political will for that right now b. Those routes are not economically feasible .. maybe if BEY constructs a brand new terminal that makes it possible for pax to transfer seamlessly .. but until then with the current terminal, that is not an option.
 
hisham
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:30 pm

The fact that you pay attention to things like midnight vs midday flights suggests that you don't understand security. It's not like a monster is going to rise from the sea at 3 am.
 
alan3
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:49 pm

I know the thread says US, but I would imagine if there are going to be any North America to Beirut flights, YUL would be highest on the list (other than JFK I guess).

YUL already has flights to AMM, IST, CMN, ALG, TUN, DOH, TLV - so it's becoming a rather major North American hub for that part of the world.
 
ME720
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: If Beirut-US flights return, which cities could gain service?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:21 pm

hisham wrote:
The fact that you pay attention to things like midnight vs midday flights suggests that you don't understand security. It's not like a monster is going to rise from the sea at 3 am.


Obviously.. but during the civil war Even MEA avoided having aircraft overnight at BEY. And when Baghdad airport reopened after the fall of Dad dam most foreign airlines avoided night flights in and out Baghdad. If the airport is safe to have an AF 777 or BA / Lh 321 among other airlines overnight 10-12 hours means the airport is safe for their operations. That would not be the case had the airport been run by “terrorists”. Operations to North America can resume safely, probably extra measures will be taken .. it is not impossible. It is just a political issue.

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