TriL1011Star
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Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:11 pm

Recently, I was watching a documentary that talked about the defects of the first Dehaviland comet. The jet, for obvious reasons, was very short lived.

Does anyone know if this type of jet ever flew in the United States?
 
RJNUT
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:16 pm

Mexicana flew them to San Antonio, Dallas, Chicago and LAX according to 1967 timetable.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:20 pm

RJNUT wrote:
Mexicana flew them to San Antonio, Dallas, Chicago and LAX according to 1967 timetable.

I will qualify by stating this was the Comet 4, the not the ill-fated Comet 1 I am referring to
 
David_itl
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:24 pm

First transatlantic Jet service (beating the 707 by around 3 weeks)

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/1004first-transatlantic-jet-service-boac/
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:42 pm

David_itl wrote:
First transatlantic Jet service (beating the 707 by around 3 weeks)

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/1004first-transatlantic-jet-service-boac/


Again, a Comet 4 and not a Comet 1. The Comet 1 didn't have TATL range, so obviously it never crossed the ocean.
 
LVISA
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Aerolineas Argentinas flew their Comet 4's from 1959 to mid December 1966 to NY and Miami. Miami may have lasted a while longer.

AREA of Ecuador had one that was briefly used to fly to Miami. It ended up as a derelict and was broken up in Miami in the 1970's. The RAF flew them to NY on a few occasions, (I remember seeing them parked in the PAN AM maintenance area.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:40 pm

The RAF flew Comet 4s, as Nimrods, until not too long ago, so I’d say they lasted for a good while. And, I’ve been deafened by their take-offs around the world.

GF
 
KICT
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:42 pm

What was the routing for the AR JFK service? Surely they stopped for fuel somewhere.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:50 pm

The Comet 4C that was parked at KORD for years was N registered but never saw service other than a ferry flight from ABQ to ORD. I think the sister ship was also N registered and is undergoing restoration at KPAE (non flying status) Probably the only2 Comets of any vintage to wear a N number.
 
LVISA
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:16 pm

KICT wrote:
What was the routing for the AR JFK service? Surely they stopped for fuel somewhere.


Yes, they did, Buenos Aires/Rio/Trinidad/New York. Did it 3 times. Long flight.
 
VC10er
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:26 pm

She was a very cool looking aircraft! (Although the tail looked old fashioned)
Did any US carrier look into buying any?
Did the 4 have the range to make it transcontinental nonstop?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
beechnut
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:08 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
David_itl wrote:
First transatlantic Jet service (beating the 707 by around 3 weeks)

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/1004first-transatlantic-jet-service-boac/


Again, a Comet 4 and not a Comet 1. The Comet 1 didn't have TATL range, so obviously it never crossed the ocean.


May aircraft in the day, did not have transatlantic range. Hence, fuel stops at Gander and Shannon. I believe PA began jet service to Europe with a 707-121 which would have been marginal against the westerly headwinds on the way home, and would have necessitated a fuel stop on many days.

So it is not obvious that not having the range would have prevented TATL service.

Beech
 
shankly
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:43 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
The Comet 1 didn't have TATL range, so obviously it never crossed the ocean.


BOAC Comet 1 YZ undertook cargo only route proving and training flights to South America in 1952, so a Comet 1 certainly made the Americas
L1011 - P F M
 
Ryanair01
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:47 pm

The Royal Canadian Air Force had Comet 1s which operated the first ever transatlantic jetliner flights, all be it for military transport. RCAF Comet 1s were operated internationally, including joint NATO missions, so they might have flown into the US. These aircraft were upgraded following the crashes when most Comet 1s were scrapped.

BOAC operated the first jet service in the USA, which was a Comet 4 non stop to London, but with a fuel stop on the west bound sector.

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/1004first-transatlantic-jet-service-boac/
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The RAF flew Comet 4s, as Nimrods, until not too long ago, so I’d say they lasted for a good while.


The interesting thing is that the Royal Navy had intended to still be flying them, had the MRA4 project not completely fallen apart.

Granted the conversion involved new wings, new engines (Rolls-Royce BR710s), and a new flight-deck (derived from the A340), and one of the major factors in the project being halted was the "surprise" discovery that none of the airframes had been built to the same plans, but still... :p

(*1 = "surprise" because apparently nobody remembered the same discovery being made about the same airframes when they were being upgraded to MR2 standard in the early '80s)
(*2 = and it's an even sweeter irony if you're not a British taxpayer to know that BAe had in fact offered in 1996 to new-build the MRA4s rather than convert existing frames, but that this was turned-down on cost grounds... Oops.)
 
factsonly
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:21 pm

VC10er wrote:
Did any US carrier look into buying any?


The linked article states it clearly.......

PANAM bought the Comet 1, but cancelled the order after the fatique issues became apparent.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:32 pm

The Comet 1 very nearly flew to HNL with Canadian Pacific... but the first delivery crashed on takeoff on the delivery flight leg from Karachi, and the rest of the order was delayed until the type was grounded and finally canceled
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
timz
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:24 pm

Guess those were RAF Comets that flew across the US to Honolulu and Christmas Island? Comet 2s, maybe? They flew Travis to HNL, didn't they?
 
jimatkins
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:05 pm

When I was in high school, we lived under the pattern for LAX, about 35 miles west of the airport. Used to see Mexicana Comets coming in pretty often. Comet 4Cs, with the pinion tanks.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:20 am

VC10er wrote:
Did any US carrier look into buying any?
Did the 4 have the range to make it transcontinental nonstop?

Capital Airlines ordered four Comet 4 and ten Comet 4A in July 1956 to start service in January 1959. This order was eventually cancelled. I can't find a reason for the cancellation, but I am going to guess it was due to financing as Capital was in financial trouble by then.

Looking at the flying that BOAC did with the Comet 4, I would guess that US transcon flights would have been possible. The Comet 4 had longer range than the Comet 4A (which did not fly in airline service) and the Comet 4B and 4C.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
XRadar98
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:29 am

factsonly wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Did any US carrier look into buying any?


The linked article states it clearly.......

PANAM bought the Comet 1, but cancelled the order after the fatique issues became apparent.


However the poster of the link does not show the answer to the question, and I would imagine VC10er did not click on a link with no obvious answer. I rarely clink links in forums myself. So the question was valid, and thanks for you so very helpful response.
 
Max Q
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:49 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
The RAF flew Comet 4s, as Nimrods, until not too long ago, so I’d say they lasted for a good while. And, I’ve been deafened by their take-offs around the world.

GF



The smaller, maritime patrol Nimrods
that were derived from the Comet went on
for decades after they were retired


They were extremely useful aircraft and
flew a lot of clandestine missions during the Falklands confrontation


They were modified to carry a Sidewinder
on each wing after an inadvertent encounter with an Argentinian Air Force
reconnaissance 707 over the south Atlantic


That didn’t happen again but it’s bizarre
to think a modified airline transport could have shot down an airliner
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
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modernArt
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:50 am

Here's a link to a photo of a Mexicana Comet taxing to the active runway at San Antonio - heading for Mexico City via Monterrey or Guadalajara.
https://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/De-Havilland-Aircraft/De-Havilland-DH106-Comet/i-C5nfcvv/A
 
many321
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:44 am

modernArt wrote:
Here's a link to a photo of a Mexicana Comet taxing to the active runway at San Antonio - heading for Mexico City via Monterrey or Guadalajara.
https://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/De-Havilland-Aircraft/De-Havilland-DH106-Comet/i-C5nfcvv/A


That one fine looking bird.
 
jetskipper
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:49 am

modernArt wrote:
Here's a link to a photo of a Mexicana Comet taxing to the active runway at San Antonio - heading for Mexico City via Monterrey or Guadalajara.
https://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/De-Havilland-Aircraft/De-Havilland-DH106-Comet/i-C5nfcvv/A


That’s a fantastic photograph. Thanks
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:44 am

TriL1011Star wrote:
Recently, I was watching a documentary that talked about the defects of the first Dehaviland comet. The jet, for obvious reasons, was very short lived.

Does anyone know if this type of jet ever flew in the United States?

Just recently, we had here a thread about a Comet flying within the USA to transport tourists to a special pesort (IIRC a nude club or similar).
Unfortunately, I cannot find the link that quickly...
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:54 am

modernArt wrote:
Here's a link to a photo of a Mexicana Comet taxing to the active runway at San Antonio - heading for Mexico City via Monterrey or Guadalajara.
https://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/De-Havilland-Aircraft/De-Havilland-DH106-Comet/i-C5nfcvv/A


The really narrow fuselage gives the impression that this is a really long airplane, it isn’t. About the same length as a B737-300, and 2m longer than an E-175. The width of the fuselage was less than a foot wider than the E jets.

Reading through the wiki pages about it gives one the impression that this was a perfectly useless airplane. And at 4 abreast would never have made commercial sense. And didn’t.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:03 am

N14AZ wrote:
TriL1011Star wrote:
Recently, I was watching a documentary that talked about the defects of the first Dehaviland comet. The jet, for obvious reasons, was very short lived.

Does anyone know if this type of jet ever flew in the United States?

Just recently, we had here a thread about a Comet flying within the USA to transport tourists to a special pesort (IIRC a nude club or similar).
Unfortunately, I cannot find the link that quickly...


That was the airplane that is/was referred to as the "O'Hare Comet" and it was meant to be used as a flying club owned aircraft for Naked City, Indiana. It never was operational other than the ferry flight from ABQ to ORD, where it was finally cut up and removed sometime in the mid eighties.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:52 am

BravoOne wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
TriL1011Star wrote:
Recently, I was watching a documentary that talked about the defects of the first Dehaviland comet. The jet, for obvious reasons, was very short lived.

Does anyone know if this type of jet ever flew in the United States?

Just recently, we had here a thread about a Comet flying within the USA to transport tourists to a special pesort (IIRC a nude club or similar).
Unfortunately, I cannot find the link that quickly...


That was the airplane that is/was referred to as the "O'Hare Comet" and it was meant to be used as a flying club owned aircraft for Naked City, Indiana. It never was operational other than the ferry flight from ABQ to ORD, where it was finally cut up and removed sometime in the mid eighties.

Thanks for your feedback. Now I understand why I didn’t find the recent thread. It was actually a discussion about the McDonnell 220, which became an extremely interesting Jetstar-discussion and for a short time even a Dick Drost discussion…: ;-) viewtopic.php?t=1392135

Here are two more relevant threads:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=599189&p=9431849&hilit=ORD+comet#p9431849
viewtopic.php?t=288757
 
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longhauler
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:18 pm

factsonly wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Did any US carrier look into buying any?


The linked article states it clearly.......

PANAM bought the Comet 1, but cancelled the order after the fatique issues became apparent.

Pan American also had the Comet 2 and Comet 3 ordered. These too were cancelled. By the time the Comet 4 was offered, so too was the 707 ... and the rest is history.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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Revelation
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:34 pm

BravoOne wrote:
The Comet 4C that was parked at KORD for years was N registered but never saw service other than a ferry flight from ABQ to ORD. I think the sister ship was also N registered and is undergoing restoration at KPAE (non flying status) Probably the only2 Comets of any vintage to wear a N number.

http://www.museumofflight.org/aircraft/ ... omet-mk-4c says:

The Museum's Comet took its first flight on October 31, 1959 and became the first jet airliner for Mexicana Airlines, serving routes between Mexico City and Los Angeles until 1970. After 1970, it was briefly used as a charter plane, before being sold to Westernair of Albuquerque, New Mexico. The plane was refurbished in Mexico City, but remained unused by Westernair, who eventually sold it to an airline club in Redmond, Washington in 1978. It was eventually transferred to Everett, Washington and was acquired by The Museum of Flight in the early 1990s. The Comet has been undergoing a complete restoration at our Restoration Center at Paine Field since 1995.

And has a pretty picture:

Image

I'd prefer they restore it to Mexicana livery:

Image

I understand the historic ties to BOAC, but it's not as if that livery is under-represented...
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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f4f3a
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:30 pm

The comet at duxford which sometimes is open to go on actually was one of the first trans Atlantic jet flights to New York . I think it’s reg is dB .
 
f4f3a
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:34 pm

It is also worth remembering that the comet 1 first flew in 1949 so was light years ahead of competition . If not for the accidents it would have been commercially successful
 
sccutler
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:35 pm

Unless I am egregiously mistaken, I believe that the Mexicana Comets were derivative of PanAm orders; recall that, back then, PanAm had a substantial ownership stake in Mexicana de Aviacion.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
timz
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 pm

The Air-Britain book says the PA order was in 10/52, for three Comet 3s and seven options. Mexicana ordered three 4Cs in 10/59, so probably no connection to PA's order.
 
sccutler
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:02 pm

timz wrote:
The Air-Britain book says the PA order was in 10/52, for three Comet 3s and seven options. Mexicana ordered three 4Cs in 10/59, so probably no connection to PA's order.


Ah!

I stand corrected. Had read about the connection somewhere, but it was perhaps written by someone more ignorant than I (an impressive achievement!).

Thank you for the authoritative correction.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:30 am

LVISA wrote:

Great photo! Just out of curiousity, it wouldn’t be worth starting a new thread so may I ask here: what is the story about the DC-3 in the background with “Lee Agyle”-titles?
Image
Note: I didn't use the "PHOTOID"-Feature to show a larger version of that picture.

I found one picture for this operator in our database but not the DC-3 visible in the background of the picture above. Any information would be highly appreciated. :-)
 
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modernArt
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:06 am

N14AZ wrote:
I found one picture for this operator in our database but not the DC-3 visible in the background of the picture above. Any information would be highly appreciated. :-)


I believe its the same DC-7 - just tipped onto its tail?
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:27 am

modernArt wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I found one picture for this operator in our database but not the DC-3 visible in the background of the picture above. Any information would be highly appreciated. :-)


I believe its the same DC-7 - just tipped onto its tail?


Yep, a DC-7 with nose pointed skyward. Great picture from MIA´s corrosion corner. I roamed these areas in the late 70´s early 80´s during my flight training days. :)
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Did the DeHaviland Comet ever fly in the US?

Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:29 am

modernArt wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I found one picture for this operator in our database but not the DC-3 visible in the background of the picture above. Any information would be highly appreciated. :-)


I believe its the same DC-7 - just tipped onto its tail?

OMG, yes, of course. You are correct. Thanks for your feedback.
But what is "Lee Argyle"?

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