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OA940
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Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

It's been a few months since they launched, and I was wondering how they are doing financially, and in terms of load factors and yields. I heard that at first their planes were flying empty. Has that changed? Has anyone here flown them? How was it?
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title changed
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kabq737
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:58 am

I’m not sure any information will be out yet...
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santi319
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:17 am

Flew them from Mia to Milan, very nice service, good staff. Still growing pains but planes were almost full going and oversold comming back.

Pretty much same or similar service to Alitalia.
 
asuflyer
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:33 am

The biggest news is that they will be commencing 4 weekly HKG in January. Meridiana previously flew to SZX. They can command higher fares from HKG so this makes sense.

They are increasing MIA and JFK for the winter. Obviously, they are still running introductory fares on MXP-MIA/JFK/BKK as they were only bookable a few months before service began.

Meridiana was a really bare-bones operation, so it's really not hard to make improvements. Employee and union relations are still bad, 51 staff at the MX base in Olbia were offered to move to Milan, and of course most didn't want to make the move.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:48 am

If I lived in Olbia I wouldn't want to move either...

I think MXP-SZX is a scheduled charter flight.
Wish they would fix their website. Not possible to book one way fares to/from USA, yet the fares have been filed because one-ways can be purchased via expedia. Can't figure that one out...
 
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CARST
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 am

OA940 wrote:
It's been a few months since they launched, and I was wondering how they are doing financially, and in terms of load factors and yields. I heard that at first their planes were flying empty. Has that changed? Has anyone here flown them? How was it?


There was an article on ATWonline last week saying that their numbers so far are looking very good and they have high loadfactors.

See: http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/ai ... aul-routes

Quote from the article:
Newly rebranded Air Italy plans to increase frequencies this winter on its new long-haul network because of strong demand.



The only thing which isn't so clear to me is wether they want to be seen as a copy of QR or not. IMHO the image of QR is very good with assengers and could help Air Italy, but their CEO said this:

Air Italy chief customer experience officer Rossen Dimitrov has stressed during the Farnborough air show that the relaunched Meridiana is "an Italian brand" and that its relationship with Qatar Airways is simply about "learning".

From: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ta-450510/


On the other hand it's very obvious that QR and AAB are calling the shots at Air Italy:

Qatar Airways Group CEO Akbar Al Baker told ATW that Air Italy should become successful “in the next three years.” He added: “We gave them 20 brand new [Boeing] 737 MAX and 30 787s initially. Then we can deploy bigger aircraft like 777s and A350s.”
 
SCQ83
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:29 am

eta unknown wrote:
If I lived in Olbia I wouldn't want to move either...

I think MXP-SZX is a scheduled charter flight.
Wish they would fix their website. Not possible to book one way fares to/from USA, yet the fares have been filed because one-ways can be purchased via expedia. Can't figure that one out...


I am surprised Qatar has not launched yet Doha-Olbia (specially since they have already launched destinations like Mykonos).

In addition to Meridiana, QIA has investments in the area:

http://www.repubblica.it/economia/finan ... refresh_ce

https://www.christiesrealestate.com/pob ... a-in-italy

It would only make sense to have a flight to Doha in order to increase the Asian / Indian tourism in this area.
 
spannacomo
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:02 am

way too soon to say how airitaly is doing. Some leakaged load factors were not bad, but no rumours about yields so far, and Al Baker said the plan is to be profitable in 3 years. But Alitalia is a menace and a big question mark: they have always been selling non profitables fares and they are going to stay afloat thanks to more taxpayer money flowing in. Nobody can bear their competition, if they decide to compete, because they do not need to be profitable, they could even give away tickets for free. LHI for instance was not allowed to grow a hub in MXP and alitalia threw them out through air one, that was closed when LHI disappeared.
As for DOH-OLB, I do not expect this route to be ever launched, QR customers can easily reach OLB connecting in MXP with airitaly. Or even connecting in FCO.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:25 am

I would think their business plan assumes AZ goes away. That may be a wild card, but if that happens, they become the defacto flag airline of Italy...hence the name change.

I would imagine they are trying to build the operation and hold down the fort to wait AZ out. I also imagine they are hoping that the Italian govt lets AZ die
 
Cointrin330
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:53 am

spannacomo wrote:
way too soon to say how airitaly is doing. Some leakaged load factors were not bad, but no rumours about yields so far, and Al Baker said the plan is to be profitable in 3 years. But Alitalia is a menace and a big question mark: they have always been selling non profitables fares and they are going to stay afloat thanks to more taxpayer money flowing in. Nobody can bear their competition, if they decide to compete, because they do not need to be profitable, they could even give away tickets for free. LHI for instance was not allowed to grow a hub in MXP and alitalia threw them out through air one, that was closed when LHI disappeared.
As for DOH-OLB, I do not expect this route to be ever launched, QR customers can easily reach OLB connecting in MXP with airitaly. Or even connecting in FCO.


I'm not sure I would see Alitalia itself is the menace at the moment, but rather the Italian government, which supports Alitalia financially, likely violating EU rules and I had thought I read the government is considering taking some sort of action against Air Italy in order to protect and support AZ. Alitalia is and always has been a basket case. Wrecked by the government, its unions, and a disease-like mentality to resist change. The airline operates today just as it did in the 1980s. The only thing that has changed is better on board service.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:55 am

spannacomo wrote:
way too soon to say how airitaly is doing. Some leakaged load factors were not bad, but no rumours about yields so far, and Al Baker said the plan is to be profitable in 3 years. But Alitalia is a menace and a big question mark: they have always been selling non profitables fares and they are going to stay afloat thanks to more taxpayer money flowing in. Nobody can bear their competition, if they decide to compete, because they do not need to be profitable, they could even give away tickets for free. LHI for instance was not allowed to grow a hub in MXP and alitalia threw them out through air one, that was closed when LHI disappeared.
As for DOH-OLB, I do not expect this route to be ever launched, QR customers can easily reach OLB connecting in MXP with airitaly. Or even connecting in FCO.


Sorry but I have to correct you.
Air One was a separate LCC airline that was competing against AZ and struggling and ran way before LHI came along. They were very close to LH and it was often speculated that LH would take them over eventually.
It was merged into AZ at the previous insolvency of AZ as Air One itself struggled to stay afloat.

I agree though that DOH-OLB is not realistic.
Future growth will be in MXP as I have rightly already pointed when the take-ober was announced.

I expect load factors and yields to be excellent now.
But wait 3 more weeks and see them switch into panic mode.
No amount of MAX or B787's can turn this airline around.

The only way this airline can become profitable is if OLB gets a longer runway, a DOH style hub is built there using major participation from the Sardinian region. A national airline owned by the region if you will... Sardinia has already given Meridiana hundreds of millions to save the jobs. But if they start talking about moving staff to mainland, Sardinia will quickly align with the unions and stop preferential treatment.

MXP can't be built into a world hub. Too expensive in terms of staff and facilities for one, but the major issue is that even though this part of Italy is very rich, unlike places like Frankfurt, it has lots of airports in the area serving each major city. Milan itself has MXP, BGY and LIN, then you have TRN, BLQ, FLR, GOA all within 2 hours driving, serving the respective cities in the area in addition to a flock of LCC airports.
The paying customer has a very wide choice of airports.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:39 pm

True, but only MXP and BLQ up North can handle intercontinental flights. Also VCE.

I expect the Air Italy turn around to be slow and painful. I also expect Al Bakar tantrums.

Finally, if we need the Sardinian provincial govt. to subsidise it, better rename the company back to Alisarda (and queue another Al Bakar tantrum).
 
adi00654
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:03 pm

Air Italy also announced weekly X5 MXP-BOM from October 2018.
Later they also announced MXP-DEL.So both the flights would commence from October 2018.
 
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HECA
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:43 pm

adi00654 wrote:
Air Italy also announced weekly X5 MXP-BOM from October 2018.
Later they also announced MXP-DEL.So both the flights would commence from October 2018.


When will the first 787s arrive?
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Waterbomber
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:47 pm

HECA wrote:
adi00654 wrote:
Air Italy also announced weekly X5 MXP-BOM from October 2018.
Later they also announced MXP-DEL.So both the flights would commence from October 2018.


When will the first 787s arrive?


The plan is for the summer schedule next year but I will be surprised to see any B787 in Air Italy colors.

Remember that all the promises were made at a time where AZ was on the brink and Air Italy was being pitched as the new national (flag) carrier. With the elections and full government support for AZ, QR will probably have to go back and see what they want to do about it.

It's not unthinkable that they attempt to merge Air Italy into AZ and become the minority partner in a nationalised AZ MK3.
We will then go back to a nationalised AZ with the dual MXP and FCO hubs.
 
spannacomo
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:15 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
Sorry but I have to correct you.
Air One was a separate LCC airline that was competing against AZ and struggling and ran way before LHI came along. They were very close to LH and it was often speculated that LH would take them over eventually.
It was merged into AZ at the previous insolvency of AZ as Air One itself struggled to stay afloat.


this happened before the merger, after the merger LH decided to establish LHI in MXP to grow a hub, and AZ responded sending airone as a LCC in order to cut the ground under LHI feet. When LHI folded, airone moved away from MXP and then disappeared.

Waterbomber wrote:
MXP can't be built into a world hub. Too expensive in terms of staff and facilities for one, but the major issue is that even though this part of Italy is very rich, unlike places like Frankfurt, it has lots of airports in the area serving each major city. Milan itself has MXP, BGY and LIN, then you have TRN, BLQ, FLR, GOA all within 2 hours driving, serving the respective cities in the area in addition to a flock of LCC airports.
The paying customer has a very wide choice of airports.

AAB seems to think differently, and put his money to show it. In my opinion the major risk is not related to how MXP perform as a hub but to how huge are the subsidies AZ will receive to stay afloat. If the EU allows the government to give alitalia billions then airitaly will have no chance to fairly compete in the italian market.
 
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Aisak
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:57 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
MXP can't be built into a world hub. Too expensive in terms of staff and facilities for one, but the major issue is that even though this part of Italy is very rich, unlike places like Frankfurt, it has lots of airports in the area serving each major city. Milan itself has MXP, BGY and LIN, then you have TRN, BLQ, FLR, GOA all within 2 hours driving, serving the respective cities in the area in addition to a flock of LCC airports.


The problem at MXP with BGY and LIN is quite similar to IAD with DCA and BWI but UA has run a hub there for quite some time.
The good part is that MXP is THE airport for longhaul so people willing to take a widebody for long distance NEED to use that airport. Combined with some feed it could work given AZ's focus is only FCO. If you start by using MXP to connect the islands to longhaul you have quite a good O/D per se, and fill the rest with connections.

Waterbomber wrote:
The only way this airline can become profitable is if OLB gets a longer runway, a DOH style hub is built there using major participation from the Sardinian region. A national airline owned by the region if you will... Sardinia has already given Meridiana hundreds of millions to save the jobs. But if they start talking about moving staff to mainland, Sardinia will quickly align with the unions and stop preferential treatment.


Even if the runway is long enough, the airport terminal and apron is what it is. As per wiki, OLB has 5 gates with jetbrigdges and 5 gates to be bussed to remote stands (about 14).
Maybe not a world hub but a good european one kind of what AirBerlin has in PMI.

If OLB is a popular destination for Italians they could run a hub with two banks 1130-1230 and 1700-1800 to connect airports in Italy who already need to connect at MIL or ROM to similar airports in Europe. If OLB has Air Service Obligations/discounts/State help with mainland Italy because its on an island, then half the work is done.
 
asuflyer
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:44 pm

Air Italy announced today that their flights to JFK and MIA have so far had load factors of around 90%, probably not surprising given it was summer they were consistently cheaper AZ, AA, UA and EK on those routes. but overall off to good start for an airline with limited brand recognition.

https://quifinanza.it/finanza/air-italy ... sa/225448/
(Link only in Italian)
 
797
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Air Italy Reports 90% Load Factors During Summer

Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:15 am

Looks like Air Italy has just closed a very successful first summer season. The airline launched in June with long-haul flights to JFK and MIA, following BKK and in October BOM and DEL.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/air-ita ... st-summer/

The airline reports 90% of average load factor during its first four months of operations.

There are rumors that the airline will add 4 North American destinations in 2019. My guess is Chicago, Toronto, Boston, and San Francisco.

Overall, pretty good start for the airline. Al Baker must be pleased...
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eal
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Re: Air Italy Reports 90% Load Factors During Summer

Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:54 am

Very impressive, I'm interested in knowing what yields were like-flew to MXP last year to visit family in Italy and the ticket was only $500rt in late May/early June with only AA on the route-but given that it's QR I don't think yields matter all too much. Overall I'm not surprised Miami has been successful, Alitalia abandoned the route and AA fill the void, AA fly's the route with a rickety old 767-300, I'm sure AA would protest but hopefully Air Italy joins OneWorld and opens up more US routes
 
andrej
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Re: Air Italy Reports 90% Load Factors During Summer

Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:28 am

eal wrote:
Very impressive, I'm interested in knowing what yields were like


This is the key point. I guess we will never know, but yields are more important than load factors (albeit theoretically, high LF may cover all expenses related to the flight). Nonetheless, good luck to them!
 
LewisNEO
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Re: How is Air Italy doing?

Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:24 pm

asuflyer wrote:
Air Italy announced today that their flights to JFK and MIA have so far had load factors of around 90%, probably not surprising given it was summer they were consistently cheaper AZ, AA, UA and EK on those routes. but overall off to good start for an airline with limited brand recognition.

https://quifinanza.it/finanza/air-italy ... sa/225448/
(Link only in Italian)


This is also being discussed shortly in another newer double thread. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404389
Maybe that discussion can be merged into this one.

Anyway: I think Air Italy is doing great, their load factor seems far dense then that one of AZ.
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LPSHobby
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Air Italy boosts frequencies after strong summer

Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:49 am

Revitalized Air Italy has reported strong summer season passenger loads on its new flights to the US and has announced frequency increases on several of its international routes.

The Sardinia-based carrier, which rebranded from its former identity of Meridiana in March following Qatar Airways’ decision to take a 49% stake in its parent company, AQA Holdings, is in the middle of a major fleet expansion program.

Qatar Airways is leasing five of its Airbus A330-200s to Air Italy this year, replacing aging Boeing 767-300s. The A330s will, in turn, be replaced from May 2019 by new Boeing 787-8s taken from Qatar Airways’ existing orders with the US manufacturer. Air Italy will also receive 20 Boeing 737 MAX 8s—again, from Qatar’s orderbook.

The Italian carrier reported Sept. 20 that it had seen strong results from both its new international and domestic route sectors.

Although having only launched services from Milan Malpensa to Miami and New York JFK in June, the airline said it had recorded load factors of more than 90% to both destinations. Services from its Olbia, Sardinia, base to 11 Italian destinations had also racked up more than 500,000 passengers between June and September.

source: http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/ai ... ong-summer

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Blerg
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Re: Air Italy boosts frequencies after strong summer

Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:23 am

Didn't they also increase Delhi before the route was even launched?

Have they hinted at what European destinations they are looking at? I remember Moscow being one of them.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air Italy boosts frequencies after strong summer

Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:16 am

A future USA destination could be LAX (seasonal)...as for Moscow, I wonder if DME would be ideal with an S7 codeshare. Going out east, the former Meridiana served SZX...what about potential service to HKG or PVG? The idea here is to become an airline that connects Italy's economic capital to major economic centers.
 
spannacomo
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:42 am

Rumours have it that in 2019 airitaly will open 4 US destinations and a couple of chinese. I think IG could replace AB as a OW member, the only problem being Parker's opposition. I do not understand why AA should not approve that, though.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:17 am

At the very least they could become oneworld connect partner. BA and QR would be likely sponsors, but they need one more. Air Italy could be part of the solution to oneworld’s position in Europe.
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:46 am

BrianDromey wrote:
At the very least they could become oneworld connect partner. BA and QR would be likely sponsors, but they need one more. Air Italy could be part of the solution to oneworld’s position in Europe.


Why should IAG need Air Italy (not only BA part of IAG), when they can already use Level? (Or maybe Vueling although I heard negative feedbacks from Italy)
 
spannacomo
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:03 am

BrianDromey wrote:
At the very least they could become oneworld connect partner. BA and QR would be likely sponsors, but they need one more. Air Italy could be part of the solution to oneworld’s position in Europe.

maybe CX and or LATAM could be sponsors as well? QR own shares of both

vahancrazy wrote:
Why should IAG need Air Italy (not only BA part of IAG), when they can already use Level? (Or maybe Vueling although I heard negative feedbacks from Italy)

IG is a "legacy" hub/spokes carrier based in MXP, nothing to do with Level or Vueling strategy
 
bmibaby737
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:41 pm

Does anyone know the seating configurations of the aircraft in Air Italy fleet? There seems to be very little information available on their website.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:16 pm

The conflict between unions has escalated as predicted, now the Sardinian region is also involved and the region is even talking to the government. But the government has Lega Nord at its helm together with M5S. Lega Nord would be very pleased to see MXP turned into an intercontinental hub and while M5S stands with Sardinia, I doubt that they will push through given the limited impact on the voters.

In any case, I think that DEL and BOM are serious question marks.
AZ wasn't doing well on it and even SN is giving it up despite offering 1-stop connections to the USA and having a broader catchment area than MXP.
If its a tag-on combining DEL and BOM, ok, but not as single routes.
The ME3 do well on India routes but their cost base is lower and they have the network to make it work. What kind of network can you hope to build with 20 B737MAX?
Even if you spread the longhaul capacity into three banks, 20 MAX are insufficient to feed the 30 B787 that are supposed to arrive.

I think that the MXP hub is an error. Air Italy owns OLB airport (or at least the airport company, big airports are under public concessions) which presents a huge opportunity in terms of having a low cost hub. Airport fees are a huge part of the cost of a ticket.
While O&D in Milan is a big market, it's a bit naive to think that they can capture a big part of that when BGY and LIN are closer and have a very competitive offering. MXP is also surrounded by posh neighborhoods that are very Nimby., which hampers development. OLB has the advantage of having an approach over the sea on one side and a narrow rural valley on the other.
I think that it makes more sense to build a network in OLB and feed into the numerous Italian and European airports at competitive fares. If they do that, they can get incentives from the region and survive, perhaps make decent money through the airport.
Let's also not forget that OLB is a high yield O&D destination in the summer and it can be all year long if Qatar are smart about it. Sardinia has much more to offer besides its beautiful beaches and more and more of Hollywood are starting to combine holidays with work by filming there.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:02 pm

spannacomo wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
At the very least they could become oneworld connect partner. BA and QR would be likely sponsors, but they need one more. Air Italy could be part of the solution to oneworld’s position in Europe.

maybe CX and or LATAM could be sponsors as well? QR own shares of both


Even though QR owns part of CX and LA, it doesn't mean they have executive powers within the two companies. Even if QR could sit one or two people at the Board, that won't have enough influence or power to command those kind of agreements.

Nevertheless, oneworld connect seems like the perfect scheme for Air Italy to join. They only need 3 sponsors. QR is a given. And both BA and IB have extensive agreements with Air Italy. Codeshare (of couse interline) FF reciprocal benefits and Meridiana Club even runs on IAG's Avios. There is no reason Air Italy won't have these three as sponsors.

The drawback is that every Business and First passenger and FF scheme in oneworld would trigger OW benefits when flying Air Italy, while Air Italy's business class passengers and Meridiana Club top-tier member would only be entitled to "alliance benefits" with the sponsors. And of course with any other airline, OW or not, Air Italy can enter into an agreement.
 
ewt340
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:16 pm

I wonder why they decided to use B787-8 instead of B787-9. Knowing that B787-9 have better fuel efficiency compared to the smaller B787-8.
Is it because they are anticipating smaller demand similar to Hawaiian Airlines with their A330-200?
 
Alexdk
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:22 pm

ewt340 wrote:
I wonder why they decided to use B787-8 instead of B787-9. Knowing that B787-9 have better fuel efficiency compared to the smaller B787-8.
Is it because they are anticipating smaller demand similar to Hawaiian Airlines with their A330-200?

It’s because QR disposed of the aircraft they don’t need.
 
spannacomo
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Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:17 am

Waterbomber wrote:
The ME3 do well on India routes but their cost base is lower and they have the network to make it work. What kind of network can you hope to build with 20 B737MAX?
Even if you spread the longhaul capacity into three banks, 20 MAX are insufficient to feed the 30 B787 that are supposed to arrive.

I think they plan to also connect LR destinations between them, India and US for instance.

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that the MXP hub is an error. Air Italy owns OLB airport (or at least the airport company, big airports are under public concessions) which presents a huge opportunity in terms of having a low cost hub. Airport fees are a huge part of the cost of a ticket.
While O&D in Milan is a big market, it's a bit naive to think that they can capture a big part of that when BGY and LIN are closer and have a very competitive offering.

MXP is already larger than the other two combined, and it's growing much faster. LIN actually is shrinking due to AZ problems, and its destiny is to become a low cost airport, as per LH plans, while BGY is already an overcrowded airport who needs new facilities before growing again. In 3 years MXP will have 2/3 of the whole cake of MIL pax, if IG grows as planned,

Waterbomber wrote:
MXP is also surrounded by posh neighborhoods that are very Nimby., which hampers development. OLB has the advantage of having an approach over the sea on one side and a narrow rural valley on the other.
I think that it makes more sense to build a network in OLB and feed into the numerous Italian and European airports at competitive fares. If they do that, they can get incentives from the region and survive, perhaps make decent money through the airport.
Let's also not forget that OLB is a high yield O&D destination in the summer and it can be all year long if Qatar are smart about it. Sardinia has much more to offer besides its beautiful beaches and more and more of Hollywood are starting to combine holidays with work by filming there.

OLB is a summer touristic airport, which means low yield. Last february they had 50k- pax and you want to grow an intercontinental hub there? Over MXP? Sorry but this is nonsense.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 791
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:43 am

spannacomo wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
The ME3 do well on India routes but their cost base is lower and they have the network to make it work. What kind of network can you hope to build with 20 B737MAX?
Even if you spread the longhaul capacity into three banks, 20 MAX are insufficient to feed the 30 B787 that are supposed to arrive.

I think they plan to also connect LR destinations between them, India and US for instance.

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that the MXP hub is an error. Air Italy owns OLB airport (or at least the airport company, big airports are under public concessions) which presents a huge opportunity in terms of having a low cost hub. Airport fees are a huge part of the cost of a ticket.
While O&D in Milan is a big market, it's a bit naive to think that they can capture a big part of that when BGY and LIN are closer and have a very competitive offering.

MXP is already larger than the other two combined, and it's growing much faster. LIN actually is shrinking due to AZ problems, and its destiny is to become a low cost airport, as per LH plans, while BGY is already an overcrowded airport who needs new facilities before growing again. In 3 years MXP will have 2/3 of the whole cake of MIL pax, if IG grows as planned,

Waterbomber wrote:
MXP is also surrounded by posh neighborhoods that are very Nimby., which hampers development. OLB has the advantage of having an approach over the sea on one side and a narrow rural valley on the other.
I think that it makes more sense to build a network in OLB and feed into the numerous Italian and European airports at competitive fares. If they do that, they can get incentives from the region and survive, perhaps make decent money through the airport.
Let's also not forget that OLB is a high yield O&D destination in the summer and it can be all year long if Qatar are smart about it. Sardinia has much more to offer besides its beautiful beaches and more and more of Hollywood are starting to combine holidays with work by filming there.

OLB is a summer touristic airport, which means low yield. Last february they had 50k- pax and you want to grow an intercontinental hub there? Over MXP? Sorry but this is nonsense.


A Hub in OLB? Lombardia is the wealthiest area of Italy, MXP is the best place for starting an activity as a newcomer such as Air Italy.

+ LIN gonna be temporary shut down next summer for runnway work for at least 2 or 3 month.

MXP makes totally sense
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:51 pm

I would characterize AZ as less of a menace and more of a nuisance in that the current Italian government, and likely the 17 that follow it, will keep propping it up vainly because they see it as a national icon. If there is a global recession and Italy is caught up in it, then I could see the long standing support of AZ finally fading away. The real issue here is that Italy does not need two airlines of scale and I could see Air Italy, if it really does succeed, merge with AZ but no Italian airline will be a viable operation so long as the government interferes and the unions that surround AZ (and presumably Air Italy) aren't dramatically curbed.
 
MXP92
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:30 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:08 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
spannacomo wrote:
Waterbomber wrote:
The ME3 do well on India routes but their cost base is lower and they have the network to make it work. What kind of network can you hope to build with 20 B737MAX?
Even if you spread the longhaul capacity into three banks, 20 MAX are insufficient to feed the 30 B787 that are supposed to arrive.

I think they plan to also connect LR destinations between them, India and US for instance.

Waterbomber wrote:
I think that the MXP hub is an error. Air Italy owns OLB airport (or at least the airport company, big airports are under public concessions) which presents a huge opportunity in terms of having a low cost hub. Airport fees are a huge part of the cost of a ticket.
While O&D in Milan is a big market, it's a bit naive to think that they can capture a big part of that when BGY and LIN are closer and have a very competitive offering.

MXP is already larger than the other two combined, and it's growing much faster. LIN actually is shrinking due to AZ problems, and its destiny is to become a low cost airport, as per LH plans, while BGY is already an overcrowded airport who needs new facilities before growing again. In 3 years MXP will have 2/3 of the whole cake of MIL pax, if IG grows as planned,

Waterbomber wrote:
MXP is also surrounded by posh neighborhoods that are very Nimby., which hampers development. OLB has the advantage of having an approach over the sea on one side and a narrow rural valley on the other.
I think that it makes more sense to build a network in OLB and feed into the numerous Italian and European airports at competitive fares. If they do that, they can get incentives from the region and survive, perhaps make decent money through the airport.
Let's also not forget that OLB is a high yield O&D destination in the summer and it can be all year long if Qatar are smart about it. Sardinia has much more to offer besides its beautiful beaches and more and more of Hollywood are starting to combine holidays with work by filming there.

OLB is a summer touristic airport, which means low yield. Last february they had 50k- pax and you want to grow an intercontinental hub there? Over MXP? Sorry but this is nonsense.


A Hub in OLB? Lombardia is the wealthiest area of Italy, MXP is the best place for starting an activity as a newcomer such as Air Italy.

+ LIN gonna be temporary shut down next summer for runnway work for at least 2 or 3 month.

MXP makes totally sense

I completely agree. I also think that for the time being Air Italy should focus its development on MXP. Each aircraft based outside the hub means less opportunity to feed the existing flights.
OLB is a seasonal airport and I think that it could be suitable for a new Ryanair base.
 
MXP92
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:30 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:27 pm

I completely agree that a hub in OLB doesn't make sense. OLB is a seasonal airport, and it could de suitable for a new Ryanair base instead.
Air Italy, for the time being, should focus its development on MXP. Each aircraft based outside the hub means less opportunity to feed the existing flights.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1637
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:29 pm

Flew them a few weeks ago CTA-MXP...it was ok. Clean plane was nice and for once not using bus gates was a pleasant change.
“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
 
Blerg
Posts: 4426
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:16 pm

Why are people mentioning Alitalia here? Air Italy is partially owned by Qatar which is as reliant on government aid as Alitalia is.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:39 pm

Will the 788 that’s IG recieve from QR be fitted with crew rest I wonder? I don’t believe so, but this could limit potential LR routes?

Do they have their own lounges in italy yet?

I hope to see them succeed! QRs strategy thus far or investment in LATAM and IG has proven a stronger strategy than EYs.
 
MXP92
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:30 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:13 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Will the 788 that’s IG recieve from QR be fitted with crew rest I wonder? I don’t believe so, but this could limit potential LR routes?

Do they have their own lounges in italy yet?

I hope to see them succeed! QRs strategy thus far or investment in LATAM and IG has proven a stronger strategy than EYs.

EY strategy was to bring more passengers to Abu Dhabi by investing in other airlines. For example, the first thing EY did after Alitalia's takeover was to double the flight MXP-AUH and to launch VCE-AUH.
QR seems that wants to create a second hub in MXP with IG, and the current flight to BKK and the future flights to DEL and BOM are a proof that they have not necessarily intention to bring more passengers to DOH only.
EY didn't succeed since it wasn't able to offer to the Italian passenger something different the other airlines couldn't. And because Alitalia is an airline with its own particular 'characteristics'.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:01 pm

MXP92 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Will the 788 that’s IG recieve from QR be fitted with crew rest I wonder? I don’t believe so, but this could limit potential LR routes?

Do they have their own lounges in italy yet?

I hope to see them succeed! QRs strategy thus far or investment in LATAM and IG has proven a stronger strategy than EYs.

EY strategy was to bring more passengers to Abu Dhabi by investing in other airlines. For example, the first thing EY did after Alitalia's takeover was to double the flight MXP-AUH and to launch VCE-AUH.
QR seems that wants to create a second hub in MXP with IG, and the current flight to BKK and the future flights to DEL and BOM are a proof that they have not necessarily intention to bring more passengers to DOH only.
EY didn't succeed since it wasn't able to offer to the Italian passenger something different the other airlines couldn't. And because Alitalia is an airline with its own particular 'characteristics'.


Agreed, makes sense to keep the networks independent whilst at the same time using the global procurement power to maximise economies of scale.
 
RichardWelling
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:45 am

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:15 pm

I wonder if and when IG will be moving over to Terminal 8 at JFK.
 
AZa346
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:24 pm

RichardWelling wrote:
I wonder if and when IG will be moving over to Terminal 8 at JFK.

I hope never... it is very Cool to see air Italy and alitalia side by side at JFK T1!!
Edited a spelling mistake
 
asuflyer
Posts: 588
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:46 pm

AZa346 wrote:
RichardWelling wrote:
I wonder if and when IG will be moving over to Terminal 8 at JFK.

I hope never... it is very Cool to see air Italy and alitalia side by side at JFK T1!!
Edited a spelling mistake


It is very confusing for pax considering IG902 and AZ605 both depart JFK from T1 at 20:30. They often queue for the wrong flight.
 
RichardWelling
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:45 am

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:39 am

Operationally, Terminal 1 is a zoo and would make more sense to move on over to Terminal 8. I suppose once IG inches closer to OW membership, it would give them more of a justified reason to switch terminals.
 
Alexdk
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:10 pm

Sadly, they are ending MXP-DME effective 15 October
https://italiavola.com/2018/09/29/air-i ... nsa-mosca/
 
LIPZ
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Air Italy discussion thread

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:59 pm

Looks like they are cutting frequencies to India even before they start them later this month :
DEL from 6 to 3
BOM from 5 to 3

HAV, MBA, ZNZ last flights in mid-December
Some ad-hoc reductions to MIA, BKK, LOS-ACC as well in the upcoming weeks till mid-December.

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