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SR380
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Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:37 pm

Hey guys,

Sorry if this has been discuss before.

According to Russian ambassador in Syria, the national airline Syrian Arab Airlines is looking at the new Russian medium range airliner to modernize its fleet.

Actually they operate 6 A320, 1 A340, 2 ATR72 and 1 Tu134 and 1 Dassault for gouvernent use. Il-76 that operates for the military are also pained with the airline livery.

Article: https://fr.sputniknews.com/internationa ... ses-syrie/
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:31 pm

Are there any operational airports still working in Syria, i would have guessed a lot of damage occurred over the last number of years?
 
hisham
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:48 pm

It’s not like the whole country blew up. Damascus, Latakia etc have been spared and have operational airports.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:34 pm

Well, the Russians will take rubbles.

GF
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:36 pm

hisham wrote:
It’s not like the whole country blew up. Damascus, Latakia etc have been spared and have operational airports.



Actually Damascus airport was heavily damaged. Early on in the war the opposition back by US actually cut the main road between Damascus and the international airport. Later it was fired upon by artillery and mortar fire by opposition and ISIS came very close to the airport as well. Latakia obviously isn't since it is on the Coast line area and close to the Russian naval parts and air force base.

Also Qamishli airport domestic operations for the entire war basically only stopping in 2014-2015 due to fighting, flight between Damascus, Latakia also.
 
hisham
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:59 pm

Ok but DAM is operational and was never damaged extensively. Even Aleppo is apparently usable.
 
MoonC
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:21 pm

They have been flying their A343 from Damascus and Latakia for a year now. A Sukhoi won't have difficulties. But according to the history of YK-AZA on FR24, it never visited Aleppo. Don't know if for operational reasons or airport unusability. A Su might have more chances.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:26 pm

So basically, this might be a replacement for one of the A320s, as it's about the same size. I will admit that the MC-21 looks very nice and just as modern as a Boeing or Airbus aircraft. However, I haven't heard of many other airlines ordering it. Kind of fascinating that Russia is back in the mid-size aircraft market after all these years.
 
tu204
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:19 pm

Would be good if they go buying Russian goods with all the help we gave them.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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eisenbach
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:32 pm

1. Everyone thinks, that in a country in war, everything is destroyed. Even in a war country, most of the area is not affected and life is going on (quiet) as usual with cinemas working, shops open,etc. If a critical infrastructure is destroyed, usually it is rebuild quiet fast, if it's not within a permanent fighting zone. Normally the most vulnerable system is electricity with regular shortages.

2. Syrian Arab Airlines has no other choice to buy Russian planes, they have no other choice (maybe Chinese products).
DC-6, DC9, Do228, Saab340, Twin-Otter, C212, Fokker50, AN24, MD90, MD83, EMB120, A380, A300, A343, A346, B721, B742, B744, B748...
 
IWMBH
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:11 pm

Isn't there a lot of US/EU technology in this plane? How are they allowed to sell it to Syria?
 
tu204
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:16 am

IWMBH wrote:
Isn't there a lot of US/EU technology in this plane? How are they allowed to sell it to Syria?


Not as much as the SSJ. Especially if ordering with PD engine option rather than PW.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:39 pm

IWMBH wrote:
Isn't there a lot of US/EU technology in this plane? How are they allowed to sell it to Syria?


No, there isn't. It's so little that it doesn't fall under sanctions.

From what I understood, this plane was designed with Air Koryo as a potential customer in mind. Of course since then the sanctions against North Korea have been raised so much that they can't order this aircraft anymore either, but back then they could. Sanctions against Syria aren't as strict as they are against North Korea, so they can order this aircraft.

Apart from Domestic flights they might fly it to Iran. Syria and Iran have always had strong relationships, so there is demand for air travel between those countries. Iran is another country that could end up buying this aircraft by the way.
 
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SR380
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:58 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
Isn't there a lot of US/EU technology in this plane? How are they allowed to sell it to Syria?


No, there isn't. It's so little that it doesn't fall under sanctions.

From what I understood, this plane was designed with Air Koryo as a potential customer in mind. Of course since then the sanctions against North Korea have been raised so much that they can't order this aircraft anymore either, but back then they could. Sanctions against Syria aren't as strict as they are against North Korea, so they can order this aircraft.

Apart from Domestic flights they might fly it to Iran. Syria and Iran have always had strong relationships, so there is demand for air travel between those countries. Iran is another country that could end up buying this aircraft by the way.


Do you have any sources about that? Air Koryo currently operates 2 Tu-204 and 2 An-148. Even if the soviet types are sometime flying to Vladivostok International Airport (VVO), they don't have the need for new aircrafts at the moment, nor have the hard currency to pay for it. As much as I would love to see them operates more frame, I doubt that Irkut would take the need of JS into perspective when they went through production.

Cheers
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:59 pm

SR380 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
Isn't there a lot of US/EU technology in this plane? How are they allowed to sell it to Syria?


No, there isn't. It's so little that it doesn't fall under sanctions.

From what I understood, this plane was designed with Air Koryo as a potential customer in mind. Of course since then the sanctions against North Korea have been raised so much that they can't order this aircraft anymore either, but back then they could. Sanctions against Syria aren't as strict as they are against North Korea, so they can order this aircraft.

Apart from Domestic flights they might fly it to Iran. Syria and Iran have always had strong relationships, so there is demand for air travel between those countries. Iran is another country that could end up buying this aircraft by the way.


Do you have any sources about that? Air Koryo currently operates 2 Tu-204 and 2 An-148. Even if the soviet types are sometime flying to Vladivostok International Airport (VVO), they don't have the need for new aircrafts at the moment, nor have the hard currency to pay for it. As much as I would love to see them operates more frame, I doubt that Irkut would take the need of JS into perspective when they went through production.

Cheers


Probably one of the most ridiculous statements on a.net for a while. JS operates 4 aircraft basically in its mainline fleet of pax aircraft that are relatively new and some only a two or three years old. Considering their network and how long they've taken to renew their fleet this fleet is perfect for them at current. Why would a Irkut actually UAC for that matter design an aircraft for an airline with such operations? If you said for Aeroflot, S7 ok because the amount they've ordered exceeds the total amount of aircraft that Air Koryo has ever operated :lol:


Back to Syrian Arab Airlines, they definitely fly outside of Syria. They serve Baghdad, Najaf (Iraq), Tehran and Abadan (Iran) purely for war purposes these were not served before the war. They serve dubai, Jeddah, Doha, Kuwait, Khartoum, Yerevan and Moscow as well.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:09 am

hisham wrote:
It’s not like the whole country blew up. Damascus, Latakia etc have been spared and have operational airports.

Again, why does an answer to someone’s question have to be given with a dose of attitude? Syria has been in a civil war for several years now. I think it was a fair question that deserved an answer without the derisive tone.
 
hisham
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:37 am

You’re right, sorry.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:00 am

There are serious costs ahead, and for such a desperate and tiny airline - the true question is not if the airline will survive with, but rather - on, the type.

The airline will now have dedicate crew (and train them specifically for the type), maintenance (both in-house, and for the major work, rely on Russian MX - as well as work with Irkut to develop their parts network to suit a broadly Syrian operation), and work on the financing of said aircraft. All these increases in costs, do not bode well for a carrier in the current predicament.
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:11 am

Rajahdhani wrote:
There are serious costs ahead, and for such a desperate and tiny airline - the true question is not if the airline will survive with, but rather - on, the type.

The airline will now have dedicate crew (and train them specifically for the type), maintenance (both in-house, and for the major work, rely on Russian MX - as well as work with Irkut to develop their parts network to suit a broadly Syrian operation), and work on the financing of said aircraft. All these increases in costs, do not bode well for a carrier in the current predicament.


Syria as a whole is totally reliant on Russia and Iran. Russia has provided Syria with major hardware and personal through our the war and prior to that also, Syrian operated many Russian built aircraft such as Tu-154, Tu-134, Yak-40 aircraft. A dozen or so new aircraft wouldn't be beyond the scope of the Russian federation for its ally and friends in Syria.
 
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MalcolmInTheMoM
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:47 am

It's nice to hear that a Russian aircraft program as modern as this one is putting another order on the books, but Syrian airlines aren't strangers to Russian frames. Nothing will really grab anyone's attention until they can sell some planes to airlines in larger Western countries. What sucks is that the likelihood of this happening is minimal (at best) because politics will get in the way. So while the MC-21 is an intriguing plane for me I'll probably never see it in person (let alone have the chance to fly on one). :sorry:
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:28 am

Melbourne wrote:
Syria as a whole is totally reliant on Russia and Iran. Russia has provided Syria with major hardware and personal through our the war and prior to that also, Syrian operated many Russian built aircraft such as Tu-154, Tu-134, Yak-40 aircraft. A dozen or so new aircraft wouldn't be beyond the scope of the Russian federation for its ally and friends in Syria.


While I do not deny any of what you have stated, my fears in the reliability of Irkut (to produce to scale), especially to an "ally"'s carrier that has a severely diminished ability to repay their debts - and we arrive at a position that is un-enviable, as it is perhaps necessary, for the carrier.

I understand that they may have few (if any) other options, that said - I do not expect the initial roll out to be either smooth, or go well. Let's hope for a positive outcome!
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:59 am

Rajahdhani wrote:
Melbourne wrote:
Syria as a whole is totally reliant on Russia and Iran. Russia has provided Syria with major hardware and personal through our the war and prior to that also, Syrian operated many Russian built aircraft such as Tu-154, Tu-134, Yak-40 aircraft. A dozen or so new aircraft wouldn't be beyond the scope of the Russian federation for its ally and friends in Syria.


While I do not deny any of what you have stated, my fears in the reliability of Irkut (to produce to scale), especially to an "ally"'s carrier that has a severely diminished ability to repay their debts - and we arrive at a position that is un-enviable, as it is perhaps necessary, for the carrier.

I understand that they may have few (if any) other options, that said - I do not expect the initial roll out to be either smooth, or go well. Let's hope for a positive outcome!


Like I said, UAC is a federal entity in the Russian Federation who have delivered MiG-29s, Su-25s etc and overhauled a bunch of Syrian jets over the 7 year war not to mention the amount of other hardware that's been funnelled into Syria. Syrian air itself is the sole operator between Moscow and Damascus. The Russian government would provide these aircraft is what I am trying to say here, don't forget Syrian had 10 or so An-148s on order before the Ukraine crisis itself and that's when Russia stopped an-148 production from Ulyanovsk.
 
Scorpius
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:26 pm

Melbourne wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
Melbourne wrote:
Syria as a whole is totally reliant on Russia and Iran. Russia has provided Syria with major hardware and personal through our the war and prior to that also, Syrian operated many Russian built aircraft such as Tu-154, Tu-134, Yak-40 aircraft. A dozen or so new aircraft wouldn't be beyond the scope of the Russian federation for its ally and friends in Syria.


While I do not deny any of what you have stated, my fears in the reliability of Irkut (to produce to scale), especially to an "ally"'s carrier that has a severely diminished ability to repay their debts - and we arrive at a position that is un-enviable, as it is perhaps necessary, for the carrier.

I understand that they may have few (if any) other options, that said - I do not expect the initial roll out to be either smooth, or go well. Let's hope for a positive outcome!


Like I said, UAC is a federal entity in the Russian Federation who have delivered MiG-29s, Su-25s etc and overhauled a bunch of Syrian jets over the 7 year war not to mention the amount of other hardware that's been funnelled into Syria. Syrian air itself is the sole operator between Moscow and Damascus. The Russian government would provide these aircraft is what I am trying to say here, don't forget Syrian had 10 or so An-148s on order before the Ukraine crisis itself and that's when Russia stopped an-148 production from Ulyanovsk.

I'm sorry, I think you've made a mistake somewhere. I have not heard about the production of An-148 in Ulyanovsk. The an-148 was produced at the aviation plant in Voronezh (I worked there from 2006 to 2011). And in Ulyanovsk was made during the Soviet Union the Antonov An-124. Now this enterprise "Aviastar-SP", which is mainly engaged in the production of Tu-204, Il-76 various modifications and maintenance of airworthiness An-124.
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 pm

Scorpius wrote:
Melbourne wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:

While I do not deny any of what you have stated, my fears in the reliability of Irkut (to produce to scale), especially to an "ally"'s carrier that has a severely diminished ability to repay their debts - and we arrive at a position that is un-enviable, as it is perhaps necessary, for the carrier.

I understand that they may have few (if any) other options, that said - I do not expect the initial roll out to be either smooth, or go well. Let's hope for a positive outcome!


Like I said, UAC is a federal entity in the Russian Federation who have delivered MiG-29s, Su-25s etc and overhauled a bunch of Syrian jets over the 7 year war not to mention the amount of other hardware that's been funnelled into Syria. Syrian air itself is the sole operator between Moscow and Damascus. The Russian government would provide these aircraft is what I am trying to say here, don't forget Syrian had 10 or so An-148s on order before the Ukraine crisis itself and that's when Russia stopped an-148 production from Ulyanovsk.

I'm sorry, I think you've made a mistake somewhere. I have not heard about the production of An-148 in Ulyanovsk. The an-148 was produced at the aviation plant in Voronezh (I worked there from 2006 to 2011). And in Ulyanovsk was made during the Soviet Union the Antonov An-124. Now this enterprise "Aviastar-SP", which is mainly engaged in the production of Tu-204, Il-76 various modifications and maintenance of airworthiness An-124.


Yes you're correct my mistake Ulyanovsk with Voronezh.
 
Flaps
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:28 pm

MalcolmInTheMoM wrote:
It's nice to hear that a Russian aircraft program as modern as this one is putting another order on the books, but Syrian airlines aren't strangers to Russian frames. Nothing will really grab anyone's attention until they can sell some planes to airlines in larger Western countries. What sucks is that the likelihood of this happening is minimal (at best) because politics will get in the way. So while the MC-21 is an intriguing plane for me I'll probably never see it in person (let alone have the chance to fly on one). :sorry:


Unreliable support has always been the primary issue with first Soviet and then later Russian designs. I won't deny that some politics are involved but the politics are far from the primary reason for their lack of success. The Sukhoi SSJ unfortunately did nothing to dissuade that image. Russian manufacturers have only themselves to blame. To be successful aircraft must be both efficient and reliable .
 
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SR380
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:57 pm

Some update about this possible order. It might be for up to 15 to 20 aircrafts, according to Forbes.

Where would they fly to?

They also mentioned that they wished to stay with Airbus, but can not due to sanctions.

Earliest deliveries could be in 2022.

https://fr.sputniknews.com/amp/internat ... us-russie/
 
Blerg
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:49 pm

SR380 wrote:
Some update about this possible order. It might be for up to 15 to 20 aircrafts, according to Forbes.

Where would they fly to?

They also mentioned that they wished to stay with Airbus, but can not due to sanctions.

Earliest deliveries could be in 2022.

https://fr.sputniknews.com/amp/internat ... us-russie/


They are probably expecting to resume normal operations after the war. Also, they wouldn't get all of them at the same time but it would take several years to get the 15 aircraft.
 
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SR380
Topic Author
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:23 pm

Blerg wrote:
SR380 wrote:
Some update about this possible order. It might be for up to 15 to 20 aircrafts, according to Forbes.

Where would they fly to?

They also mentioned that they wished to stay with Airbus, but can not due to sanctions.

Earliest deliveries could be in 2022.

https://fr.sputniknews.com/amp/internat ... us-russie/


They are probably expecting to resume normal operations after the war. Also, they wouldn't get all of them at the same time but it would take several years to get the 15 aircraft.


Their current fleet is 6 A320 (2 grounded) 1 A340 and 2 ATR. The Il-76 and Tu-134 are used for the government. Talking even about 12, that's double the capacity. Such a huge cap.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:51 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Well, the Russians will take rubbles.

GF


They have to go pound first. :mrgreen:
 
Blerg
Posts: 4259
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Re: Syrian Arab Airlines To Order Irkut MC-21

Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:10 pm

SR380 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
SR380 wrote:
Some update about this possible order. It might be for up to 15 to 20 aircrafts, according to Forbes.

Where would they fly to?

They also mentioned that they wished to stay with Airbus, but can not due to sanctions.

Earliest deliveries could be in 2022.

https://fr.sputniknews.com/amp/internat ... us-russie/


They are probably expecting to resume normal operations after the war. Also, they wouldn't get all of them at the same time but it would take several years to get the 15 aircraft.


Their current fleet is 6 A320 (2 grounded) 1 A340 and 2 ATR. The Il-76 and Tu-134 are used for the government. Talking even about 12, that's double the capacity. Such a huge cap.


Maybe their plan is to also build a major hub at their home airport. :D After all everyone in their region is trying to.

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