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santos
Topic Author
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ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:23 pm

According to a Portuguese website ET will start ADD-LIS-MAD.

4x Weekly using a B788, starting on the 28th October 2019

So it seems BCN didn’t work as a tag, let’s hope LIS does.
Should have plenty of connecting traffic to LAD/JNB/MPT

https://newsavia.com/ethiopian-comeca-e ... -semanais/

-----------------------------------------------------------
Edited by Lightsaber per OP's request.
 
MAH4546
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS

Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:40 pm

santos wrote:
According to a Portuguese website ET will start ADD-MAD-LIS.

4x Weekly using a B788, starting on the 28th October 2019

So it seems BCN didn’t work as a tag, let’s hope LIS does.
Should have plenty of connecting traffic to LAD/JNB/MPT

https://newsavia.com/ethiopian-comeca-e ... -semanais/


Plenty of connecting traffic to Luanda? What for? LIS-ADD is a longer flight than LIS-LAD. Why are people going to fly longer, only to go entirely out of the way and backtrack back to Luanda?

I mean, yeah, somebody will do it, but in no significant numbers.
a.
 
steex
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS

Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:57 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Plenty of connecting traffic to Luanda? What for? LIS-ADD is a longer flight than LIS-LAD. Why are people going to fly longer, only to go entirely out of the way and backtrack back to Luanda?

I mean, yeah, somebody will do it, but in no significant numbers.


Agreed, seems like you'd have to be offering extremely low yield fares to entice people away from nonstop LIS-LAD on TAAG or TAP as well as one-stop options on a handful of carriers in favor of a two-stop LIS-MAD-ADD-LAD routing.

Edit: I hadn't read about this directly, but was relying on the OP. If this is indeed ADD-LIS-MAD rather than ADD-MAD-LIS as indicated below, then I retract my statement about two stops.
Last edited by steex on Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LXwing
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS

Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 pm

santos wrote:
According to a Portuguese website ET will start ADD-MAD-LIS.

4x Weekly using a B788, starting on the 28th October 2019

So it seems BCN didn’t work as a tag, let’s hope LIS does.
Should have plenty of connecting traffic to LAD/JNB/MPT

https://newsavia.com/ethiopian-comeca-e ... -semanais/


You got it slightly wrong, as the routing is actually ADD-LIS-MAD.
And their best hope for connecting traffic is JNB, as the others will only attract the lowest yielding pax avoiding the direct flights to LAD and MPT.
Furthermore, it should be noted that this new route is only seasonal and not guaranteed for the summer season.
 
santos
Topic Author
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS

Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:37 pm

I misread it then, but ET will have to rely on connecting traffic to make this route work!
Do they have a lower operating cost than TAAG or TP to offer lower fares?
Plus if they codeshare with TP as both are Star Alliance they could get some traffic from Brazil and North America?
 
notconcerned
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS

Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:04 pm

santos wrote:
I misread it then, but ET will have to rely on connecting traffic to make this route work!
Do they have a lower operating cost than TAAG or TP to offer lower fares?
Plus if they codeshare with TP as both are Star Alliance they could get some traffic from Brazil and North America?


ET already flies EZE-GRU-ADD and IAD/ORD/YYZ/EWR-ADD (some with stops). There's really no need to codeshare with TP and add an extra stop.
 
CRJ900
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:36 pm

How come MAD is being paired with other cities - if there is no natural traffic demand ADD-MAD why not just close it and look for something else?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
eamondzhang
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:06 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
How come MAD is being paired with other cities - if there is no natural traffic demand ADD-MAD why not just close it and look for something else?

Because they can generate profitable traffic but not enough to fill the plane?

Michael
 
iadadd
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:45 am

I think what we are witnessing is that ET is having a hard time dealing with MAD, it seems they want to keep it for strategic importance but its not bringing in loads. The FCO stop was working, but ET changed it because FCO had more demand so now 4/8 weekly FCO flights are terminators. Then they tried 738 nonstop, but that was a stretch due to Addis elevation and required stops in MLA or CAI. Then, They attempted adding the BCN tag, and that failed miserably. Now they're attempting LIS, let's see how this goes...
 
ETinCaribe
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:19 pm

More than LAD, perhaps JNB, CPT, MPM, NBO - so southeastern/eastern Africa. Is there enough, good yield traffic + cargo? We shall see. ET is running out of obvious places to fly to; maybe their option is to park the plane for 10+ hrs or add a tag-on destination, like they do for many new destinations.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:36 pm

Why fly BACK to Madrid? I have to wonder if ET should just give up on MAD and enter into a codeshare with TAP to bring that traffic, or other airlines to bring traffic to FCO.
 
airbazar
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:53 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Why fly BACK to Madrid? I have to wonder if ET should just give up on MAD and enter into a codeshare with TAP to bring that traffic, or other airlines to bring traffic to FCO.

It's a short hop. It probably doesn't cost them much. There's also the issue of parking space at LIS. LIS might not have a place to park the plane all day.
 
berari
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:15 pm

iadadd wrote:
I think what we are witnessing is that ET is having a hard time dealing with MAD, it seems they want to keep it for strategic importance but its not bringing in loads. The FCO stop was working, but ET changed it because FCO had more demand so now 4/8 weekly FCO flights are terminators. Then they tried 738 nonstop, but that was a stretch due to Addis elevation and required stops in MLA or CAI. Then, They attempted adding the BCN tag, and that failed miserably. Now they're attempting LIS, let's see how this goes...


I don't think that it is having a hard time dealing with MAD, something that its Boeing 737 MAX8s can handle. It is, however, trying to use MAD as a springboard into new territory. It would have axed MAD ever so quickly if it couldn't make it work. While the MAX can do it, I don't think ET wants to operate that long of a flight using a narrow body.

ETinCaribe wrote:
More than LAD, perhaps JNB, CPT, MPM, NBO - so southeastern/eastern Africa. Is there enough, good yield traffic + cargo? We shall see. ET is running out of obvious places to fly to; maybe their option is to park the plane for 10+ hrs or add a tag-on destination, like they do for many new destinations.


Their new destinations were mostly developed as tag-ons. In recent times, we have seen OSL, GVA, MAN started up this way. It works for them, they otherwise have aircraft sitting on the tarmac doing nothing. They stretch their resources and try and make it work.

airbazar wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Why fly BACK to Madrid? I have to wonder if ET should just give up on MAD and enter into a codeshare with TAP to bring that traffic, or other airlines to bring traffic to FCO.

It's a short hop. It probably doesn't cost them much. There's also the issue of parking space at LIS. LIS might not have a place to park the plane all day.


Clearly good enough to serve MAD despite the availability of multiple codeshare options. Now they're looking beyond. I somehow doubt that the route will be with a stop at LIS first, the backtracking does not make sense.
 
bunumuring
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:42 am

Hey guys,
Just wish that Ethiopian would hurry up and announce the speculated Australian service. They then MIGHT get a small market of Australians travelling to Madrid and Lisbon one stop Australia-ADD-Lisbon/Madrid...
Yes I did state a SMALL market! There are certain other airlines offering similar connections through to the Iberian peninsula, albeit with a less exotic connecting hub mid way!
Cheers
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
Cunard
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:40 am

I am extremely curious as to where our over enthusiastic and prolific Portuguese poster called PEPPERS is in this discussion regarding Ethiopian announcing Lisbon as he must surely welcome this news but I guess it wasn't concerning his beloved home airport of OPO so showing no interest (sarcasm over)

Hopefully Ethiopian can make Lisbon work when it obviously hasn't in BCN, the airline and the destinations reached via Addis Ababa are good additions for Lisbon.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Pt56
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:55 am

Cunard wrote:
I am extremely curious as to where our over enthusiastic and prolific Portuguese poster called PEPPERS is in this discussion regarding Ethiopian announcing Lisbon as he must surely welcome this news but I guess it wasn't concerning his beloved home airport of OPO so showing no interest (sarcasm over)

Hopefully Ethiopian can make Lisbon work when it obviously hasn't in BCN, the airline and the destinations reached via Addis Ababa are good additions for Lisbon.


Congrats on appearing even more small-minded than him.

One more option for Portugal/Lisbon, great news hopefully its successful and becomes a daily connection.
 
airbazar
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:33 pm

berari wrote:
Clearly good enough to serve MAD despite the availability of multiple codeshare options. Now they're looking beyond. I somehow doubt that the route will be with a stop at LIS first, the backtracking does not make sense.

It makes more sense to operate MAD as a tag and backtrack to LIS because LIS is a *A hub where they can get lots of feed. ET's MAD route essentially becomes another frequency off of the LIS hub. They will probably be allowed to carry passengers between MAD and LIS which in itself is a huge market. LIS also has a significant market to Mozambique and South Africa. Those passengers today are traveling with a significant detour via the Middle East or other European airports, even despite the non-stop LIS-MPM.
 
berari
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:20 pm

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
Just wish that Ethiopian would hurry up and announce the speculated Australian service. They then MIGHT get a small market of Australians travelling to Madrid and Lisbon one stop Australia-ADD-Lisbon/Madrid...
Yes I did state a SMALL market! There are certain other airlines offering similar connections through to the Iberian peninsula, albeit with a less exotic connecting hub mid way!
Cheers
Bunumuring


Why hurry up and send an aircraft that long a distance when the same can be achieved with codeshare agreements? The numbers will have to make sense, and the timing has to be right.

airbazar wrote:
berari wrote:
Clearly good enough to serve MAD despite the availability of multiple codeshare options. Now they're looking beyond. I somehow doubt that the route will be with a stop at LIS first, the backtracking does not make sense.

It makes more sense to operate MAD as a tag and backtrack to LIS because LIS is a *A hub where they can get lots of feed. ET's MAD route essentially becomes another frequency off of the LIS hub. They will probably be allowed to carry passengers between MAD and LIS which in itself is a huge market. LIS also has a significant market to Mozambique and South Africa. Those passengers today are traveling with a significant detour via the Middle East or other European airports, even despite the non-stop LIS-MPM.


Backtracking does not make sense on a number of levels and risks alienating a built up valuable MAD client base that has so far been upgraded from one stop via FCO to nonstop. If my 30 seconds worth of research can be quoted, Spain has 4x the population, a GDP that is 5x greater and annual exports that dwarf those of Portugal.

The only argument I see here is that LIS is a Star Alliance hub, and wonder what feeds can TAP provide to Ethiopian at LIS other than domestic operations for it to make a nonstop to LIS that attractive? If we are looking at TAP's European and/or North American flights, ET already have more than enough coverage via its other Star partners.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:38 pm

berari wrote:
Backtracking does not make sense on a number of levels and risks alienating a built up valuable MAD client base that has so far been upgraded from one stop via FCO to nonstop. If my 30 seconds worth of research can be quoted, Spain has 4x the population, a GDP that is 5x greater and annual exports that dwarf those of Portugal.

It doesn't matter that Spain is that much larger than Portugal. Spain has very little penetration in Africa compared to Portugal. There's a reason why TPs African network is 4x larger than IB's. Having said that, it appears that this will be a triangle route: ADD-MAD-LIS-ADD.
https://aeronauticsonline.com/ethiopian ... to-lisbon/
 
evanb
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:39 pm

airbazar wrote:
It makes more sense to operate MAD as a tag and backtrack to LIS because LIS is a *A hub where they can get lots of feed. ET's MAD route essentially becomes another frequency off of the LIS hub. They will probably be allowed to carry passengers between MAD and LIS which in itself is a huge market. LIS also has a significant market to Mozambique and South Africa. Those passengers today are traveling with a significant detour via the Middle East or other European airports, even despite the non-stop LIS-MPM.


On what basis are TP just going to feed ET capacity to compete with it's own flights to LAD and MPM? Just because LIS is a *A hub it doesn't mean TP is going to be particularly helpful in this regard.
 
berari
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:27 pm

airbazar wrote:
berari wrote:
Backtracking does not make sense on a number of levels and risks alienating a built up valuable MAD client base that has so far been upgraded from one stop via FCO to nonstop. If my 30 seconds worth of research can be quoted, Spain has 4x the population, a GDP that is 5x greater and annual exports that dwarf those of Portugal.

It doesn't matter that Spain is that much larger than Portugal. Spain has very little penetration in Africa compared to Portugal. There's a reason why TPs African network is 4x larger than IB's. Having said that, it appears that this will be a triangle route: ADD-MAD-LIS-ADD.
https://aeronauticsonline.com/ethiopian ... to-lisbon/


Then the penetration you speak of should have perhaps had ET serve LIS before it served MAD, but that's where the $ is at.

Also, for anyone that knows about ET's operations, unless there's a major banking shift that happens in the next season, it will not be a triangle route.

We shall await the official announcement from Ethiopian, which has still not been made. No schedules are posted as of yet.
 
LXwing
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:25 pm

airbazar wrote:
berari wrote:
Backtracking does not make sense on a number of levels and risks alienating a built up valuable MAD client base that has so far been upgraded from one stop via FCO to nonstop. If my 30 seconds worth of research can be quoted, Spain has 4x the population, a GDP that is 5x greater and annual exports that dwarf those of Portugal.

It doesn't matter that Spain is that much larger than Portugal. Spain has very little penetration in Africa compared to Portugal. There's a reason why TPs African network is 4x larger than IB's. Having said that, it appears that this will be a triangle route: ADD-MAD-LIS-ADD.
https://aeronauticsonline.com/ethiopian ... to-lisbon/

This link cites incorrectly the original news.
The route will not be triangular but with MAD as a tag from LIS. Flights between ADD and LIS will be direct in both ways, with arrivals at 4h40 and departures at 20h30 in LIS.
The most likely reason for this is the lack of slots and parking space in LIS if it were to be operate as a tag from MAD instead. Which also justifies the fact that the route is apparently only seasonal, as a summer operation is unsure due to the almost absolute lack of slots in LIS in the high season.
 
winGl3t
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:44 pm

What about secondary desinations on France. Whould MRS or LYS work as a tag? Is there enought untaped market from secondary fench cities to East/Southern Africa?
 
evanb
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:35 pm

winGl3t wrote:
What about secondary desinations on France. Whould MRS or LYS work as a tag? Is there enought untaped market from secondary fench cities to East/Southern Africa?


There is a lot of competition to Africa from MRS and LYS. AT, and to a lesser extent AH and TU, have significant capacity into MRS, LYS and many other southern French cities with a strong network in west Africa, particularly Francophone countries. This picks up a lot of traffic already. This is in addition to many direct AF flights that offer one-stop through CDG.
 
berari
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:45 pm

LXwing wrote:
airbazar wrote:
berari wrote:
Backtracking does not make sense on a number of levels and risks alienating a built up valuable MAD client base that has so far been upgraded from one stop via FCO to nonstop. If my 30 seconds worth of research can be quoted, Spain has 4x the population, a GDP that is 5x greater and annual exports that dwarf those of Portugal.

It doesn't matter that Spain is that much larger than Portugal. Spain has very little penetration in Africa compared to Portugal. There's a reason why TPs African network is 4x larger than IB's. Having said that, it appears that this will be a triangle route: ADD-MAD-LIS-ADD.
https://aeronauticsonline.com/ethiopian ... to-lisbon/

This link cites incorrectly the original news.
The route will not be triangular but with MAD as a tag from LIS. Flights between ADD and LIS will be direct in both ways, with arrivals at 4h40 and departures at 20h30 in LIS.
The most likely reason for this is the lack of slots and parking space in LIS if it were to be operate as a tag from MAD instead. Which also justifies the fact that the route is apparently only seasonal, as a summer operation is unsure due to the almost absolute lack of slots in LIS in the high season.


We shall see how it pans out soon enough and determine how important LIS is for ET compared to MAD.

winGl3t wrote:
What about secondary desinations on France. Whould MRS or LYS work as a tag? Is there enought untaped market from secondary fench cities to East/Southern Africa?


I expect this to be ET's foray in the coming years. Southern France will feed ET's routes into Africa and especially to the Indian Ocean island nations.
 
Pepper456
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:41 pm

Cunard Im back jajajaja.
About the Topic, good route to LIS.
Finally they have their slots, they were some time in the slot list and like LATAM they have to wait to let them Open the route.
I hope Next Will be QR.
But this shows that Montijo airport (or Portela+1) Will need to be built, but im against that.
I want Montijo airport né the new LIS airport, like new IST.
But, a question, it Will be 5th freedom to MAD-LIS?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:04 pm

LXwing wrote:
This link cites incorrectly the original news.
The route will not be triangular but with MAD as a tag from LIS. Flights between ADD and LIS will be direct in both ways, with arrivals at 4h40 and departures at 20h30 in LIS.

If that is indeed the schedule this is terrible for N.American connections which I was hoping this flight would tap into.
 
Cunard
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Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:20 pm

Pt56 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
I am extremely curious as to where our over enthusiastic and prolific Portuguese poster called PEPPERS is in this discussion regarding Ethiopian announcing Lisbon as he must surely welcome this news but I guess it wasn't concerning his beloved home airport of OPO so showing no interest (sarcasm over)

Hopefully Ethiopian can make Lisbon work when it obviously hasn't in BCN, the airline and the destinations reached via Addis Ababa are good additions for Lisbon.


Congrats on appearing even more small-minded than him.

One more option for Portugal/Lisbon, great news hopefully its successful and becomes a daily connection.


I wasn't suggesting anything other than what I wrote and you obviously knew what I meant!

Obviously this is great news for Lisbon and I hope it is successful as it's one more option for Portugal/Lisbon, I didn't state otherwise in my post.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
berari
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:10 pm

evanb wrote:
winGl3t wrote:
What about secondary desinations on France. Whould MRS or LYS work as a tag? Is there enought untaped market from secondary fench cities to East/Southern Africa?


There is a lot of competition to Africa from MRS and LYS. AT, and to a lesser extent AH and TU, have significant capacity into MRS, LYS and many other southern French cities with a strong network in west Africa, particularly Francophone countries. This picks up a lot of traffic already. This is in addition to many direct AF flights that offer one-stop through CDG.


Re: MRS and LYS, I don't expect ET would be in competition for traffic to western Africa where the likes of AH, TU and AT have cemented their dominance. Eastern, Central, Southern Africa and Indian Ocean with Comoros, Madagascar and in the future Mauritius being the target destinations.

airbazar wrote:
If that is indeed the schedule this is terrible for N.American connections which I was hoping this flight would tap into.


ET is not looking for North American connections via LIS. ET has good timed connections either through its own service to North America (IAD, EWR, LAX, ORD) or through solid partners out of CDG, FRA, LHR. LIS would merely provide feed into its African network.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:40 pm

berari wrote:
ET is not looking for North American connections via LIS. ET has good timed connections either through its own service to North America (IAD, EWR, LAX, ORD) or through solid partners out of CDG, FRA, LHR. LIS would merely provide feed into its African network.

That's assuming they can fill the plane from LIS otherwise they will need connections.
The same goes for TP and their anticipated N.American expansion. Any additional feed they can get to/from ET will be helpful.
TP also has a lot lower operating costs than either UA or LH so code-sharing with TP and pushing connections via LIS may be of some benefit to ET.
At the end of the day I think it comes down to what slots they were able to obtain at LIS.
 
evanb
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Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 pm

airbazar wrote:
That's assuming they can fill the plane from LIS otherwise they will need connections.
The same goes for TP and their anticipated N.American expansion. Any additional feed they can get to/from ET will be helpful.
TP also has a lot lower operating costs than either UA or LH so code-sharing with TP and pushing connections via LIS may be of some benefit to ET.
At the end of the day I think it comes down to what slots they were able to obtain at LIS.


Using your own rationale, ET has a much lower cost that TP, so why would they seek TP's North American feed at LIS rather than on their own metal from ADD to EWR, IAD, LAX, ORD and YYZ? If those flights don't have sufficient capacity they can add more relatively easily.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:26 pm

evanb wrote:
airbazar wrote:
That's assuming they can fill the plane from LIS otherwise they will need connections.
The same goes for TP and their anticipated N.American expansion. Any additional feed they can get to/from ET will be helpful.
TP also has a lot lower operating costs than either UA or LH so code-sharing with TP and pushing connections via LIS may be of some benefit to ET.
At the end of the day I think it comes down to what slots they were able to obtain at LIS.


Using your own rationale, ET has a much lower cost that TP, so why would they seek TP's North American feed at LIS rather than on their own metal from ADD to EWR, IAD, LAX, ORD and YYZ? If those flights don't have sufficient capacity they can add more relatively easily.

Because they complement eachother. That's the point of being in an alliance isn't it? ET doesn't fly to JFK/MIA/BOS and soon YUL/SFO and who knows where else when TP receives their A321LR's. Also ET can't fly non-stop to the U.S. That's why every single one of their flights makes an intermediary stop.
 
evanb
Posts: 913
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
Because they complement eachother. That's the point of being in an alliance isn't it? ET doesn't fly to JFK/MIA/BOS and soon YUL/SFO and who knows where else when TP receives their A321LR's. Also ET can't fly non-stop to the U.S. That's why every single one of their flights makes an intermediary stop.


They fly directly into four big Star Alliance hubs in EWR, IAD, ORD and YYZ. I'm sure they'd prefer to connect to JFK/MIA/BOS/YUL/SFO through their own flights into the US and Canada. I'm making this on your supposition that they'd prefer LIS to FRA since TP has a lower cost structure than LH. By that same reckoning and rationale they'd prefer their own metal to TP since they have a lower cost structure than TP.

That said, there is a major problem with ET connecting North American traffic in Europe (TP or LH) since most North American flights would require very long layovers in LIS/FRA on the eastbound segment. Most North American flights arrive in Europe in the morning, and all ET's flights (except some LHR flights) to ADD are night (and usually late night) departures. This alone might take away much of the opportunity.
 
berari
Posts: 908
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:38 pm

evanb wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Because they complement eachother. That's the point of being in an alliance isn't it? ET doesn't fly to JFK/MIA/BOS and soon YUL/SFO and who knows where else when TP receives their A321LR's. Also ET can't fly non-stop to the U.S. That's why every single one of their flights makes an intermediary stop.


They fly directly into four big Star Alliance hubs in EWR, IAD, ORD and YYZ. I'm sure they'd prefer to connect to JFK/MIA/BOS/YUL/SFO through their own flights into the US and Canada. I'm making this on your supposition that they'd prefer LIS to FRA since TP has a lower cost structure than LH. By that same reckoning and rationale they'd prefer their own metal to TP since they have a lower cost structure than TP.

That said, there is a major problem with ET connecting North American traffic in Europe (TP or LH) since most North American flights would require very long layovers in LIS/FRA on the eastbound segment. Most North American flights arrive in Europe in the morning, and all ET's flights (except some LHR flights) to ADD are night (and usually late night) departures. This alone might take away much of the opportunity.


Out of LHR, FRA, CDG, let alone IAD, EWR, ORD and LAX, ET has extensive coverage built on relationships that have lasted a few years with UA, LH, and AC to cover many parts of North America. Granted, ET and TP have partnered in/out of LIS via FCO, LHR and FRA which may still be seen as adequate for coverage into LIS if a direct flight does not pan out. I also noticed that ET codeshares on MAD-LIS with UX, a SkyTeam member!

@airbazar, one may assume that being in an alliance automatically translates into partnership. This is not the case, and there are many examples of this within every alliance. For example, within ET, while it partners with many Star partners, has not partnered with Thai despite having flown into BKK for over 15 years with sometimes 2x per day flights. It has gone on since and partnered with Air China, ANA, Singapore in order to extend its reach within Asia.
 
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3BNBE
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:07 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:22 pm

berari wrote:

Re: MRS and LYS, I don't expect ET would be in competition for traffic to western Africa where the likes of AH, TU and AT have cemented their dominance. Eastern, Central, Southern Africa and Indian Ocean with Comoros, Madagascar and in the future Mauritius being the target destinations.


Flights to Mauritius would be a nice move by Royal Air Maroc as it would be able to drain many passengers from its European destinations(particularly secondary cities in France, Spain and Italy) to Mauritius and also develop the potential of Mauritius as a touristic destinations for people from Northern Africa, while also giving access to North America for travellers from Mauritius. Through Mauritius it would also be able to reach Madagascar(friend country of Morocco and frequently visited by the Royal family) and also to some extent Australia and Southern Africa
 
qm001
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:50 pm

Let's not forget that ET has a pretty amazing network in the Middle East, South Asia, and the Far East, not to mention many Eastern African locations that simply do not work via MPM. ET would be a great complement to TP here, and I firmly believe that TP would also compliment ET for help service Brasil, outside of GRU, MIA, BOS, YUL and SFO. We should also not lose sight of the fact that in Southern Africa alone, there are over four million Portuguese citizens, who are greatly underserved with just MPM and LAD. Even if TP added JNB, there is still LUN, MBA, NBO, DAR, ZNZ, JRO, HRE, BEW, WDH, CPT, DUR, GBE, VFA, NLA, EBB all of which have links to Portugal, either through diaspora, politics or business. Spain has almost no links, other than a few business links, so I completely understand why ET is having a hard time with MAD & BCN. Also, the Portuguese are far more likely due to these connections, to fly a relatively unknown carrier (in Spain anyway!) to connect to anything but Africa...

I for one believe this will be a winner! Looking forward to many flights through ADD!
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
Skyblue39
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:34 am

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:11 pm

qm001 wrote:
Let's not forget that ET has a pretty amazing network in the Middle East, South Asia, and the Far East, not to mention many Eastern African locations that simply do not work via MPM. ET would be a great complement to TP here, and I firmly believe that TP would also compliment ET for help service Brasil, outside of GRU, MIA, BOS, YUL and SFO. We should also not lose sight of the fact that in Southern Africa alone, there are over four million Portuguese citizens, who are greatly underserved with just MPM and LAD. Even if TP added JNB, there is still LUN, MBA, NBO, DAR, ZNZ, JRO, HRE, BEW, WDH, CPT, DUR, GBE, VFA, NLA, EBB all of which have links to Portugal, either through diaspora, politics or business. Spain has almost no links, other than a few business links, so I completely understand why ET is having a hard time with MAD & BCN. Also, the Portuguese are far more likely due to these connections, to fly a relatively unknown carrier (in Spain anyway!) to connect to anything but Africa...

I for one believe this will be a winner! Looking forward to many flights through ADD!


Sorry but you’re wrong. Lisbon has been scrapped. The Madrid flight now extends to Dublin instead. Lisbon didn’t last very long.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:49 pm

Considering that Lisbon has officially been scrapped by ET and the fact that this thread is over six months old discussing a ADD-MAD-LIS that never materialised shouldn't this thread now be locked?
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
berari
Posts: 908
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:14 am

Cunard wrote:
Considering that Lisbon has officially been scrapped by ET and the fact that this thread is over six months old discussing a ADD-MAD-LIS that never materialised shouldn't this thread now be locked?


Was there an official statement about scrapping it, let alone starting it?
 
qm001
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:14 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
qm001 wrote:
Let's not forget that ET has a pretty amazing network in the Middle East, South Asia, and the Far East, not to mention many Eastern African locations that simply do not work via MPM. ET would be a great complement to TP here, and I firmly believe that TP would also compliment ET for help service Brasil, outside of GRU, MIA, BOS, YUL and SFO. We should also not lose sight of the fact that in Southern Africa alone, there are over four million Portuguese citizens, who are greatly underserved with just MPM and LAD. Even if TP added JNB, there is still LUN, MBA, NBO, DAR, ZNZ, JRO, HRE, BEW, WDH, CPT, DUR, GBE, VFA, NLA, EBB all of which have links to Portugal, either through diaspora, politics or business. Spain has almost no links, other than a few business links, so I completely understand why ET is having a hard time with MAD & BCN. Also, the Portuguese are far more likely due to these connections, to fly a relatively unknown carrier (in Spain anyway!) to connect to anything but Africa...

I for one believe this will be a winner! Looking forward to many flights through ADD!


Sorry but you’re wrong. Lisbon has been scrapped. The Madrid flight now extends to Dublin instead. Lisbon didn’t last very long.


To the best of my knowledge, it has never operated! Hence the link to an article alluding to a start in October 2019!!!
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
qm001
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:16 pm

Cunard wrote:
Considering that Lisbon has officially been scrapped by ET and the fact that this thread is over six months old discussing a ADD-MAD-LIS that never materialised shouldn't this thread now be locked?


When and where was it "officially"scrapped. Please provide a link.
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: ET To Start ADD-LIS-MAD

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:17 am

qm001 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Considering that Lisbon has officially been scrapped by ET and the fact that this thread is over six months old discussing a ADD-MAD-LIS that never materialised shouldn't this thread now be locked?


When and where was it "officially"scrapped. Please provide a link.


Well it never materialised and ET have since made no announcement regarding any intention of officially starting LIS so I think that we can all assume for now that it's been 'scrapped' or cancelled even.

Lisbon may well be served in the future but for now it's plainly obvious the idea has been 'scrapped' or at least put on hold.

ADD-MAD-DUB must be doing ok for ET as it hasn't been dropped or 'scrapped' even.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.

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